Apple's Phil Schiller: 'We Don't Design for Price, We Design for the Experience'

[Pootmatoot]

That doesn't really sound super fast

Apple Pay (and the other phone/watch touch payment systems) were always going to be far more popular in the US (and a few other niche places) than in the majority of the Western world: many places moved to chip-&-PIN well over a decade ago, and tap-to-pay cards 5 years ago.

Because the old signature system was still so prevalent in the US, it seems like a quantum leap... it's not really much of a leap for people who have had tap-to-pay cards since Lost was on air.

 

[Digital Dude]

Following the launch of the redesigned MacBook Pro, CNET has published an interview with Apple executives Phil Schiller, Jony Ive, and Craig Federighi, highlighting some of the design decisions that went into the new machine.

The contextual OLED Touch Bar on the new MacBook Pro, which is its key feature, has been in development under the direction of Jony Ive for at least two years, and according to Ive, it "marks a beginning" of a "very interesting direction" for future products. We as Mac users love the whole 'experience' thing' but we also want to see our $5Kk investment tostill be relevant for at least two years, and I question if the new MBP's wil be lable to keep pace with emerging technologies

Apple's new MacBook took so long to develop because the company didn't want to "just create a speed bump," aiming instead for something that's a "big, big step forward." Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller says the MacBook Pro will allow Apple to "create many things to come," some of which "we can't envision yet." He also said Apple isn't driven by a calendar, but is instead aiming to create "new innovations" in the Mac line.

Many customers are unhappy with the high price of the new MacBook Pro models, something Schiller addressed in the interview. An entry-level 13-inch MacBook Pro with a Touch Bar costs $1,799, a full $500 more than previous-generation models, and 15-inch models start at $2,399. Schiller says Apple cares about price, but has to design for experience rather than cost.The MacBook Pro's Touch Bar doesn't signal a future move into touchscreen Macs, something the Apple executives made clear. A Mac with a touchscreen isn't "particularly useful," Ive said, while Schiller said Apple investigated the possibility of converging iOS and Mac devices but decided against it.Both Federighi and Schiller believe the laptop is a form factor that's going to be around for a long time. "As far as our eyes can see, there will still be a place for this basic laptop architecture," Schiller said, pointing out that it's been useful for the past 25 years.

Apple's 13-inch MacBook Pro model with no Touch Bar is available for purchase starting today and will deliver in just a few days. The new 13 and 15-inch models that do include Touch Bars are available for order, but won't ship until mid-to-late November.

Along with a Touch Bar, Apple's new MacBook Pros feature upgraded processors, new graphics capabilities, improved displays, faster SSDs, Thunderbolt 3 support, and 10 hour battery life.

CNET's full interview, which also focuses on the history of the Mac notebook lineup, is well worth checking out.

Article Link: Apple's Phil Schiller: 'We Don't Design for Price, We Design for the Experience'

Okay, so I max out a new 15-inch MBP and yet for nearly $5k it's limited to 16gb of physical RAM? Apparently, the executives at Apple only use these new MacBooks for checking their email or booking their pedicures.

Kidding aside, it's nice that you've offered 2TB of storage, but without a corresponding match in RAM i.e. 32gb, it seems like a white elephant. TC stated that Apple is focusing more on 'Augmented/Artificial (AI) software, but yet, these machines are not a step in the right direction.

This time, I believe Microsoft has offered the better mousetraps the day before this launch. They most certainly cleaned your clock on their product Ad.

 

[BeamWalker]

The $200 'bump' is merely because the old machines have been around long enough to already have their price reduced. $1499 has long been the starting price for the MBP. Even the base model is a huge step forward.

no it has not

2009 $1199
2010 $1199
2011 $1199 (early)
2011 $1199 (late)
2012 $1199
2013 $1699 (early) first Retina
2013 $1299 (late)
2014 $1299
2015 $1299
2016 $1499

data taken from everymac.com

 

[Kobayagi]

That doesn't really sound super fast

Unless you're a shopaholic, it's not bad.

 

[jeremy h]

Oh, my goodness... This reaction to a product launch takes me back...

It feels like Apple has come full circle and we've all just woken up in the early 1990's... Do I hear the sound of flapping toasters again?

 

[MedRed]

I mean, your 17" Pro is nearly 10 years old! How long do you think Apple should support legacy connectors?

Just ONE of the new Thunderbolt ports on the new MBP has something like double the bandwidth of all those ports on your computer!

It's a late 2011 model. I bought it in 2012 brand new when I realized the 17" was going away. At the time, it offered connections for what you might encounter in life without the need for carrying adapters and dongles. A real "Pro" device. USB-A isn't Legacy. Where's the lightning port to go with the shiny new lightning headsets? MagSafe has always been a welcome feature. Why'd that get the axe?

There are plenty of modern ports that could be on a modern MacBook Pro. USB-A, USB-C, HDMI, Mini HDMI, DisplayPort, Lightning, Line in, Line Out, MagSafe, SD Card, Ethernet... As it sits now I couldn't connect my iPhone, iPad, DSLR, Ethernet cable, Mouse, Thumb Drive, Display, lightning earbuds, or charge my Watch without fooling around with hubs or adapters.



There's nothing "Pro" about the MacBook Pro now. Old processor, old memory, low end GPU, and poor connectivity. GG.

 

[russofris]

When will the 32GB option be available?

 

[johngordon]

Sorry, but MBP is overpriced. There is nothing groundbreaking and yet the price hike is absurd. The Touch Bar is a gimmick that will not help with productivity at all. It's just flashy for the sake of being flashy.

I'd certainly agree that the prices seem utterly ludicrous. In the past I've had base level 15" models that cost £1599, and possible £1499 at one point. A current gen base level 15" is now £2349. A massive hike. I know there is the one without the touch bar, which I think is a new model, at £1899. But even that's a massive hike and the difference between stretching a £1000 budget as possible, to it being best part of £2k and totally out of budget.

But the touch bar itself - I think the jury is out on it for me. In theory if there are a good handful of apps with regular use, and they all have things you commonly use, then having touch screen access to those things for each app, then it could well be pretty useful.

Mind you, I use a Wacom tablet as my main input device (someone suggested it as I was getting tennis elbow with the trackpad), and its the best input device I've ever used - very comfortable, and it has little clickers on it which can bring up a little radial menu on the screen which can be customised on a per app basis - so it makes it much easier to use common menu items as you don't have to move the cursor very far.

 

[Fishrrman]

onemadrssn wrote (in reply to al_bundy):
"If you believe that, you haven't been using a Mac for very long."

I've been using Macs all-but exclusively since 1987 (and Apple // before that).
How long have YOU been using them?

And I think that "even for Mac standards, these laptops are grossly overpriced".

But let's wait a few months, and see what the market for them tells us...

 

[Rossatron]

I can't believe Ive actually said a touch screen "isn't particularly useful" and yet sticks with the touch bar.
[doublepost=1477669433][/doublepost]

is it that bad EXPLAIN please

Ah no.

It's worse. The keyboard they have on the MacBook is a piece of junk. It's actually worse than the one on the first gen asus zenbooks

 

[Bradamante]

Affordability is "absolutely something we care about," Schiller says. "But we don't design for price, we design for the experience and the quality people expect from Mac. Sometimes that means we end up at the higher end of the range, but not on purpose, just because that's what it costs."

This is such a BS quote. Apple is famous for their insanely high profit margins. And even if the market situation changes they have to stick to that pattern, because the stock market loves high margins since they are less prone to demand drops.

Sure Apple is a low volume company, so sure suppliers will charge a bit more. And they happily supply Apple because of their premium. Sure Apple designs their own motherboard and other hardware parts. But the latter is also true for other manufacturers. Years ago Apple always had a entry level 13" offering for 1000€. Then it became 1100€. Then 1250€. Now we are at 1350€. Years ago you got the entry level 15" notebook for 2000€, now it's 2700€. You mean to tell me that Dell can offer a 15" premium notebook for 1750€, but Apple can't do it for 2000€? Sure, Phil, sure.

I have been explaining this to people for years now: Increasingly Apple is not serving the upper-midrange western market anymore. Instead they went full force Bang & Olufsen and now supply a high end luxury market in China, and to a lesser degree Russia or the Middle East. A U.S. college student buying Apple is a happy accident in that picture. Apple is not a computer company anymore that also does other tech gadgets, they are a luxury phone/headphones/watches company that also does laptops. And as long as they can supply to a new upper class internationally they don't have to care about western customers dropping out.

 

[frankgrimes]

Designed under the guidance of Jonathan Yve...of course. I get it, the guy is a design guru but at some point one of the engineers has to tell him what thinner and smaller means, especially on pro machines.

Nobody was expecting discounts or anything like that but if you aren't designing for the price then why is the 13'inch entry modell so gimped but still has a higher pricetag than the previous 13'inch MBPs but has a less powerful cpu, less ports and no sd card reader? To me that whole 13'inch MBP lineup is confusing, Jobs would have fired the guy who came up with that brilliant idea. There would have been the base versions in 13 and 15 inch of the MBP and then go from there.

Also how can you justify such a price increase for the touchbar AND remove useful features (USB 3.0, HDMI, sd card) from the more premium modells? People who want a thinner more portable MB have the rMB people looking for a workstation didn't ask for that....a lot wanted better specs and a bigger battery.

You can go full upper class but then provide something that wipes the floor with the competition because that's something I think Apple fails to understand. It's not like the MBP is the only premium choice with great battery life anymore other manufacturerers are catching up.

Someone should have asked those guys why you can't opt for a better display resolution, Apple has 5k IMacs so why not bring that option to the MBP? Would have been expensive to develop for sure but then you are at the point where price pumps are justified.

 

[mi7chy]

Tool bar and latest model pricing contradict Schiller.

 

[MedRed]

Macs were always pricey, but special. There's nothing compelling about this for the price. Swing and a miss.

 

[Beck Show]

Yep

They are marketing their latest toyota at rolls royce pricing.

Its clearly not for everybody

If by comparing it to Toyota you mean the absolute most reliable, then yes, you are absolutely correct.

 

[CyberFriar]

I think its time for Johnny Ive to move on or at least relinquish control of MacOS and the Macintosh product line to someone that actually uses the product. He, and it seems most of Apple's top leadership, seem sorely out of touch with what Mac users want and need.
[doublepost=1477670264][/doublepost]You would have thought at these prices they would have at least been made in America.

 

[2IS]

Yes! I love reading through the comments. When Apple ruffles this many feathers, causes this much controversy, you know they're doing something right.

So if they don't ruffle any feathers, doesn't cause this much controversy and makes everyone happy, does that mean they're doing something wrong?

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Microsoft has the right idea in terms of convergence with Windows 10. Apple is wrong, time and lost profits will prove that soon. Microsoft is killing it with Surface Pro and their recent launch of Surface Studio is game changing. How is it that Microsoft can offer a compelling touch experience for its mainstay OS - Windows 10 - and Apple cannot? Apple acts like MacOS is some kind of monolithic, static thing that cannot be changed.

Apple can, and should, tweak MacOS for touch. I don't understand what Apple means when it says that would be a compromised experience. How so? It seems Microsoft was able to change Windows to make it touch friendly across a multitude of form factors. If Apple cannot do that with macOS then Apple is clearly unwilling to make the needed changes to macOS. Microsoft has proven that it's possible and they are kicking Apple's ass right now.

 

[lilrush]

For the first time, I'm seeing a mac I wouldn't buy. I was looking forward to making this the 15th mac I've owned, but perhaps I'll have to look elsewhere since Apple has refused to innovate this time around.

 

[alexgowers]

The pricing is insane! Literally the specs are worse by quite a long way but the prices are almost doubled! I have a 2013 macbook pro that I bought for £1200 on black Friday. The current version with same 512gb is £1949! Holy crap. That is such a hike with zero tangible benefits.

I'm not sure apple know how ridiculous they've become. I don't want to bash them on price but considering they had so much time to update the macbook pro they did a terrible job.

 

[Tonewheel]

Affordability is "absolutely something we care about," Schiller says. "But we don't design for price, we design for the experience and the quality people expect from Mac. Sometimes that means we end up at the higher end of the range, but not on purpose, just because that's what it costs."

And in one paragraph, Schiller contradicts his first sentence.

Get the moles removed, Phil.

 

[frankgrimes]

Microsoft has the right idea in terms of convergence with Windows 10. Apple is wrong, time and lost profits will prove that soon. Microsoft is killing it with Surface Pro and their recent launch of Surface Studio is game changing. How is it that Microsoft can offer a compelling touch experience for its mainstay OS - Windows 10 - and Apple cannot? Apple acts like MacOS is some kind of monolithic, static thing that cannot be changed.

Apple can, and should, tweak MacOS for touch. I don't understand what Apple means when it says that would be a compromised experience. How so? It seems Microsoft was able to change Windows to make it touch friendly across a multitude of form factors. If Apple cannot do that with macOS then Apple is clearly unwilling to make the needed changes to macOS. Microsoft has proven that it's possible and they are kicking Apple's ass right now.

To be fair that hybrid OS style is the biggest problem of Windows since Windows 8. On Windows 10 you know have to control center (one is touch based the other one (gimped) is desktop focused) the problem is, they often overlap and it results in bluescreens. Also Windows 10 is a lot less customizable than say Windows 7 was and Microsoft is still removing more and more options because they view it as "Windows as a service" and are hellbent on pushing their universal windows apps (UWPs). Schiller does have a point when he talks about compromises that are not worth it.

Just imagine how great the new MBP could have been if Apple focused less on thinner, lighter and less on that but more on the stuff that really matters for performance.

 

[fa8362]

I think by experience he means lifestyle.

I think he means the lifestyles of top (Cr)Apple executives. There's simply no other rational explanation for the pricing.

 

[brianvictor7]

This is such a BS quote. Apple is famous for their insanely high profit margins. And even if the market situation changes they have to stick to that pattern, because the stock market loves high margins since they are less prone to demand drops.

Sure Apple is a low volume company, so sure suppliers will charge a bit more. And they happily supply Apple because of their premium. Sure Apple designs their own motherboard and other hardware parts. But the latter is also true for other manufacturers. Years ago Apple always had a entry level 13" offering for 1000€. Then it became 1100€. Then 1250€. Now we are at 1350€. Years ago you got the entry level 15" notebook for 2000€, now it's 2700€. You mean to tell me that Dell can offer a 15" premium notebook for 1750€, but Apple can't do it for 2000€? Sure, Phil, sure.

I have been explaining this to people for years now: Increasingly Apple is not serving the upper-midrange western market anymore. Instead they went full force Bang & Olufsen and now supply a high end luxury market in China, and to a lesser degree Russia or the Middle East. A U.S. college student buying Apple is a happy accident in that picture. Apple is not a computer company anymore that also does other tech gadgets, they are a luxury phone/headphones/watches company that also does laptops. And as long as they can supply to a new upper class internationally they don't have to care about western customers dropping out.

I personally find Phil's remark disingenuous. The entry price is simply too high for most professionals to stomach. Very clearly they are milking the pent-up demand. Maybe next fall they'll drop the price by a few hundred. We'll see.

I don't buy that they justify higher price by being low-volume. They are one of the largest computer manufacturers out there. They do plenty of business. But frankly, I hope they miss their sales guidance this time round because they need a kick in their complacency if they want their fans to keep supporting them.

 

[kdarling]

Phil is like one of the master weavers in "The Emperor's New Clothes", telling everyone how fantastic his new clothes are, though they be invisible to those who are not worthy.

Likewise, only those Apple fans who are worthy, can see the innovation.

This forum is like the child who speaks up.