Apple's Privacy Officer Jane Horvath Uses CES Appearance to Defend Company Stance on Encryption and Software Backdoors

[BootsWalking]

As expected. Apple has to follow the laws of the country they sell into. China has no privacy laws, no child protection laws, etc. If Apple is going to be allowed to sell into China they need to follow China's laws. Period.

Just don't corrupt the devices to be sold into the US so the the same device is sold in both countries.

Now if China's laws are not what they should be, then the people of China need to rise up and change them. It is not the responsibility of American's to attempt to change China's or any other country's laws.

What requires Apple to sell their products in China?
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What are you even talking about?

Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

When Apple Inc begins hosting Chinese users' iCloud accounts in a new Chinese data center at the end of this month to comply with new laws there, Chinese authorities will have far easier access to text messages, email and other data stored in the cloud.

www.reuters.com

 

[JimmyHook]

For me privacy is a key reason I stick with Apple despite the ever improving options on Android and Apple's high prices.

Jane Horvath, Apple's senior director for global privacy, joined an all-female panel consisting of representatives from Facebook, Procter & Gamble and the Federal Trade Commission.

I'm curious about this reference made in the article - were men banned from appearing on the panel? To describe is as "all-female" sounds rather strange. Or are they claiming that it just so happened to be that the relevant speakers were all women - for years now feminists have insisted that that can never happen even in the most specialised fields of engineering or physics etc but feminists are hardly noted for consistency!

Why does it matter?

 

[PickUrPoison]

They did, yes. The Cellebrite hack lasted about 5 minutes.

It depends on which version of iOS the target iPhone is running; it’s an arms race. As of June 2019 Cellebrite was effective against iOS 7 through 12.3. I’m sure Apple patched whatever exploit they were using soon thereafter.

Another reason not to run old OSes that are no longer receiving security updates.

 

[Bandaman]

Another reason not to run old OSes that are no longer receiving security updates.

Yep. And another reason to update your iPhone at least every several years to make sure you can even get those updates.
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Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

When Apple Inc begins hosting Chinese users' iCloud accounts in a new Chinese data center at the end of this month to comply with new laws there, Chinese authorities will have far easier access to text messages, email and other data stored in the cloud.

www.reuters.com

This is quite shady for Chinese customers. Although they still have the same privacy encryption that the US does ... China's lax laws regarding privacy and warrants means they can more easily obtain data on iPhone users. Apple still has sole access to the data, but their laws make it 100 times easier to get that data from Apple simply by asking.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Protecting our privacy at the cost of innovation.

As it should be.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Yep. And another reason to update your iPhone at least every several years to make sure you can even get those updates.

Definitely. My 6S is still getting updates but even if it gets iOS 14 I’m still eyeing that 5.4” iPhone 12. Five years and this thing seems as fast as ever, since iOS 12.

This is quite shady for Chinese customers. Although they still have the same privacy encryption that the US does ... China's lax laws regarding privacy and warrants means they can more easily obtain data on iPhone users. Apple still has sole access to the data, but their laws make it 100 times easier to get that data from Apple simply by asking.

Yeah it’s tough. Apple has two choices: comply with the law, or decide it’s too far over the line and leave the market. If the Chinese government had passed a law requiring them to hold the keys, I’d like to think Apple would have exited rather than complied.

But who knows. That’s not even a Cook decision, that’s a board of director-level thing.

 

[techwhiz]

To play the devils advocate, can you possibly create a two secure divisions in the phone. One with supersensitive health data, locations etc is that is absolutely secure and one with a backdoor where maybe communication and other lower level privacy data lives?

Just to be clear, I don't want this. I'm just wondering.

It's all possible.
Who gets to say what is on either side of that line?

 

[bugfaceuk]

for years now feminists have insisted that that can never happen even in the most specialised fields of engineering or physics etc but feminists are hardly noted for consistency!

Firstly, I suspect it’s an observation. Secondly, what on earth are you talking about? I’ve done a quick search and it turns out no socio, gender, or economic demographic group has been “noted for consistency”. Keep your sexist judgements to yourself.

 

[PickUrPoison]

<snip>
... for years now feminists have insisted that that can never happen even in the most specialised fields of engineering or physics etc but feminists are hardly noted for consistency!

Privacy advocacy is hardly a specialized field of engineering or physics, but I doubt there’s any support for your claim in the first place ?‍♂️

 

[LV426]

This is quite shady for Chinese customers. Although they still have the same privacy encryption that the US does ... China's lax laws regarding privacy and warrants means they can more easily obtain data on iPhone users. Apple still has sole access to the data, but their laws make it 100 times easier to get that data from Apple simply by asking.

The material details for Chinese users is that their iCloud data is required to be physically hosted in China, and Chinese authorities can access that (Chinese) data without asking Apple. This does not affect how data on the phone itself is encrypted. Chinese authorities can no more unlock a phone and examine its contents any more than Apple can, because the phone itself is secure by design.

If I were a Chinese user, though, I would disable iCloud and store my remote data elsewhere.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Complaining that Apple doesn’t innovate is getting as worn around here as emoji and it-wrong jokes. Someone needs to explain to me how Apple is glaringly behind other smartphone manufacturers. And don’t bother with microSD or bezels; if that’s how y’all define innovation, and not A-series SOCs, W/H BT chips, FaceID, iPhone 11 Pro camera system (all with glowing reviews by impartial experts), etc. etc. etc., then I suggest you raise your bar. In this age, Apple’s privacy posture alone has been innovative. Want bending displays instead? LMAO!

I'll take on this challenge:

Peizo glass to cover camera lenses - (same as office privacy glass).
^ this not only hides the camera lenses (which is beginning to look unsightly), yet doubles as a brightness reduction in bright sunlight. Save the sensors and chips to do heavy lifting. OnePlus McLaren (debuted this a s working concept).

5G in several Android phones - no excuse for Apple not to have this in 2019; including patent disputes. The idea is not to focus on how many existing 5G networks there are, it's about the market share and mindset for users to have phones ready for use already in their parkets as networks begin to thrive and cover larger areas (T-Mobile+Sprint combined already launched lower bandwidth with broad accessibility) - huge sales missed.

Fingerprint scanning under the glass - now mature in less than 1 year. Not only helps those worried about their picture scanned for wrongful misuse of bio-metrics, either way its STILL faster than FaceID (as much as I love it and love Apple) ... and Apple is supposed to pride themselves on technology being easy to use they've failed here: nothing is simpler to touch to unlock a phone especially due to various orientations and angles of use/glances at information, you don't have to do a sort of 'Selfie into a slofie' for 1.2 seconds to unlock or to use ApplePay - which is still strange to me. Heck I can use my AppleWatch for ApplePay faster and easier without being an 'ad figurine' to do so.

Graphene batteries are being tested, not rumored, tested by Huwaei in P30 Mate Pro and P40! Faster charging, longer battery life, smaller battery size - size being a premium in any smartphone size today as it was yesterday.

SamsungDEX ... although they've pulled the beta for Linux on Dex ... this is HUGE for users in less advanced countries that only have smartphones as their only computing platform can educate, use a full desktop computing experience (not simply the 'power' of desktop kernel). Take note ... China in 2020 will have 30% of all government computing platforms on Linux, 2021 50% and by 2022 the remaining 20% completed! If you think this will NOT affect K12 students within I.T. roles you better think again! Linux on Dex would have readily and cheaply allowed students to be prepared. Where is Apple with macOS on this environment projected externally say on AppleTV? hmmm.

UI is exponentially configurable by the end user! Bruva it took Apple 4yrs to give us Dark Mode on the ever consistent UI in iOS after Android has had this and its beautiful! WHY on earth did it take so damn long? real reasons not some peddle look elsewhere excuse like 'we wanted to do it just right' sorry it's NOT that hard for programmers at Apple nor it shouldn't! Also icon changes, layout, various home screens, changing users (Apple did this for AppleTV4)!

iOS ... one could say innovative with stability another could argue stability with limiting it's users! It's all in perception..

1. why do I need AppleTV to project my iOS device onto a larger screen - especially if AppleTV service is now expanded on so many SmartTV's ?!
2. why is 30mil + users choice for a smaller screen smartphone now no longer an option for modern chipsets and soon security support?
3. why does it cost $459 to replace an OLED screen that Samsung makes for Apple on iPhone X, XS and 11 Pro ... when it's hundreds of dollars cheaper on so many other Android devices!!! ? Sorry this is a complete rip-off.
3B > why did Apple really have to fold the OLED to allow the rabbit ears of iPhone X onward to work past the Face ID sensor?!
4 > why hasn't the iPad Pro FaceID made it to the 11 Pro ... size is NOT an issue since the former is thinner and the space it take up is a LOT smaller?!

See where 'stability' o rbetter yet design decisions limits users?

Sorry Apple has a LOT more money to come up with a better MacBook Pro 13" (I LOVE the design of 2016-2019) with better hardware than the competition yet they've been resting on their laurels!.

how is that for a comparison beyond "microSD" or "bezels" ?!

PS: I never complained about Bezels in smartphone EVER much less a laptop here or anywhere else on the internet or in person to anyone. Furthermore ... microSD's have always been slower than internal storage and by design less secure - Mr Robot showed a nice proof of concept yet I'm NOT ever going to want to use that kind of social engineering to insert a MicroSD card into another guys Android phone to get data. I'm NOT that desperate nor wired that way (no insults to anyone that seen the episode I'm referring to - just my personal preference). the point is booting data from a MicroSD card is automatic by the Kernel there is no intervention by the end user.


Footnote: PRICE and scale. For years Sony was able to offer top tier Android smartphone specs (even by their competition) in smaller 4.2-4.6" smartphone at a cheaper price ... where ONLY the screen resolution was lower in resolution and slightly in technology used. Apple gave us a 1yr older CPU in the iPhone SE (a great backup or global travel smartphone to be honest still my favorite design of all).

 

[jav6454]

This is quite shady for Chinese customers. Although they still have the same privacy encryption that the US does ... China's lax laws regarding privacy and warrants means they can more easily obtain data on iPhone users. Apple still has sole access to the data, but their laws make it 100 times easier to get that data from Apple simply by asking.

iCloud keys and information is not the same as local iPhone information. When law enforcement here in the US requests information from Apple, it's the iCloud data that is handed over. Apple has repeatedly stated that information on their servers is fair game as they have the keys to those. However, data on the iPhone is not as each iPhone is encrypted with a password/passcode generated key; meaning the encryption key is user generated.

China simply has unrestrained access to that data on the cloud. If a Chinese citizen were to want privacy, then all they have to do is disable iCloud backup or not even setup iCloud; simple.

 

[Lalatoon]

I thought there was some Israeli company that could download data from iPhones running any version of iOS? Local police forces all over the country were buying them iirc.

Maybe the FBI could use one of those dozens or hundreds of units scattered all over the country, if they don’t want to buy their own.

Its called Cellibrite. Here is one of many articles about it

Cellebrite Says It Can Unlock Any iPhone for Cops

In a strangely public product announcement, the phone-cracking firm revealed a powerful new device.

www.wired.com

 

[Kabeyun]

how is that for a comparison beyond "microSD" or "bezels" ?!

Trimmed the tl;dr.
More than half of that drifted into a rant about things you just don’t like or prefer. As to your call outs:

1. Semitransparent glass over a camera lens just to hide it? Pass. This glass layer can also filter higher frequencies and polarize incoming light. The current iPhone camera system is professional photo and videographer quality, and no one wants forced filters just to obscure a camera everyone knows is there.

2. You’re saying Apple should’ve included a 5G modem (Intel?!) they knew they’d abandon in 2020 (QC) just for marketing purposes aimed at a largely nonexistent network. And this would’ve been innovative? And huge sales missed. 11 sales blew everyone’s expectations out of the water, even Apple’s, and that’s without unnecessary tech adding cost (which you may have then complained about).

3. Fingerprint recognition under glass? I saw that YouTube video too. Absurd. I don’t recall waiting around for FaceID to unlock my iPhone. This is the essence of a distinction without a difference. But I’ll take the security of Face ID any day. I waited to bail on Touch ID in my 8 and haven’t looked back. I love not having to touch my phone to unlock it. That’s so 00’s. And maybe you don’t understand how FaceID works but it’s not scanning anyone’s photo; it turns facial data points into numerical code and stores it in an (also patented) secure enclave that not even Apple can access. Relax. And if you want to know who the innovator is, which company has come out second with (inferior) biometric knockoffs, first with fingerprints and then with faces? Hint: not Apple.

4. Graphene batteries is a good one. Samsung didn’t invent it at all, but developing it is a good thing. And as an example it doesn’t mean Apple doesn’t innovate.

5. I don’t know much about DeX but from what I do know, it’s a curiosity with few apps and Linux on DeX was killed because no one was using it. And Samsung is hardly alone in playing with solutions to put your smartphone on a monitor. And unless you’re a LEO, where DeX may have merit, CarPlay owns Android Auto in the automotive space.

 

[stylinexpat]

To every politician who "demands" a backdoor into electronic devices, I want to know who will go to jail when (not if) that backdoor is hacked by a criminal or misused by a government. I really don't care how "noble" your intentions are, if backdoors are built into electronic devices they WILL be abused and misused and if history teaches us anything, it is that NOBODY will be held responsible for the damage caused. To paraphrase PJ O'Rourke, installing a backdoor for the government is "like giving whiskey and car keys to a teenage boy, no matter how much they beg, no matter how much they promise they will be careful, don't do it."

Best post here

 

[IG88]

As we have seen previously with NSA zero day details (unofficial back doors), these have gotten leaked or hacked and put in the wild....there is no secure back door.

This is exactly right. An encryption backdoor given to the govt is akin to a zero day exploit that is never patched.

It would make it into the wrong hands and be misused for all sorts of evil.

 

[StevieD100]

that doesn’t really help though. The amount of trackers, dare I call it „Spyware“ built into almost every App these days is redic. You don’t even need an Facebook account for Facebook to know a lot about you

What you say is true but you can mitigate this to a large extent by having a proper firewall and blocking ALL of FaceBook, Twitter etc and especially Google. There are lists of their domains out there if you care to search.
Then use tools such as wireshark and little snitch to see where your data is being sent. Then block those.
But... it is a game of cat an mouse but if you are proactive then you can dramatically reduce your internet footprint.
My family thought I was mad to do this at first. Now they have done the same. Caused a bit of a stink with their kids school who used Facebook for just about all communication to the parents. Now more and more of the parents are opting out of FB.

Social Media will I am sure come to be regarded as one of our generations biggest mistakes.

 

[Tech198]

By the same token anyone using services as a "go to place" will "bridge the gap" and that is what Apple does by randomizing to make it "harder" not impossible.

With all the "proof" out there about encryption/one way etc.... i still say i would rather trust myself more... but from a company perspective where you manage billions of users, ya that's kinda different...

Social Media will I am sure come to be regarded as one of our generations biggest mistakes.

No one is forcing anyone to tell others and share everything... Users are the ones that put it all there, so if you wanna blame anyone, don't blame Facebok for sharing.. Blame users.


My parents have come back to "Facebok" time and time again after repeated account closes because she "thought" she wanted to leave the social.

But you just can't get away from "my friends are on on there" remark.

 

[SvenSvenson]

But, as has been said before, if you really care about privacy, quit sharing every damn stupid detail of your life on facebook etc.

People DON'T share every detail of their lives on social media. They share the ones they don;t want to be kept private.
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can you possibly create a two secure divisions in the phone. One with supersensitive health data, locations etc is that is absolutely secure and one with a backdoor where maybe communication and other lower level privacy data lives?

Possibly - but why should you have to?

 

[DeepIn2U]

Trimmed the tl;dr.
More than half of that drifted into a rant about things you just don’t like or prefer. As to your call outs:

1. Semitransparent glass over a camera lens just to hide it? Pass. This glass layer can also filter higher frequencies and polarize incoming light. The current iPhone camera system is professional photo and videographer quality, and no one wants forced filters just to obscure a camera everyone knows is there.

2. You’re saying Apple should’ve included a 5G modem (Intel?!) they knew they’d abandon in 2020 (QC) just for marketing purposes aimed at a largely nonexistent network. And this would’ve been innovative? And huge sales missed. 11 sales blew everyone’s expectations out of the water, even Apple’s, and that’s without unnecessary tech adding cost (which you may have then complained about).

3. Fingerprint recognition under glass? I saw that YouTube video too. Absurd. I don’t recall waiting around for FaceID to unlock my iPhone. This is the essence of a distinction without a difference. But I’ll take the security of Face ID any day. I waited to bail on Touch ID in my 8 and haven’t looked back. I love not having to touch my phone to unlock it. That’s so 00’s. And maybe you don’t understand how FaceID works but it’s not scanning anyone’s photo; it turns facial data points into numerical code and stores it in an (also patented) secure enclave that not even Apple can access. Relax. And if you want to know who the innovator is, which company has come out second with (inferior) biometric knockoffs, first with fingerprints and then with faces? Hint: not Apple.

4. Graphene batteries is a good one. Samsung didn’t invent it at all, but developing it is a good thing. And as an example it doesn’t mean Apple doesn’t innovate.

5. I don’t know much about DeX but from what I do know, it’s a curiosity with few apps and Linux on DeX was killed because no one was using it. And Samsung is hardly alone in playing with solutions to put your smartphone on a monitor. And unless you’re a LEO, where DeX may have merit, CarPlay owns Android Auto in the automotive space.

You did not read nor consider anything I posted as you challenged beyond MicroSD and Bezels.

Sees more of what you don't like vs what is really innovation. Fingerprint under the glass is proven and working ... your assessment based on a youtube video shows your disdain for anything outside of Apple (head in the sand syndrome).

I never said Samsung invented graphene batteries - again you did not read my post just skimmed. Linux on Dex was not killed because your perceived guess that nobody was using it. The linux community was asking for more distress outside of Ubuntu which Samaung was not prepared to implement. Again it was a Beta and Samsung barely advertised it. Try researching more for once.

Transparency glass has its benefits whether or not you choose to see it. Just remember competition is healthy regardless if one company chooses to implement technologies or not.

 

[Tech198]

People DON'T share every detail of their lives on social media. They share the ones they don;t want to be kept private.

Perhaps not, but i bet some who don't share to all, DO share their contacts.
That makes up for the gap, as equally as bad than personal info..

Facebook have shared to companies they got blasters for. What maes us think that Facebook even honers the "only people I wanna share with" factor ?

These settings help , but as far as i'm concerned if you trust, then anything else goes out the window..

They get busted, but what's to stop them ?

That's like companies who leak personal info apologize for it and give you the "I'm sorry" story...

If they keep doing that, they can also keep getting away with it.. That's never a good sign with privacy.

 

[fairuz]

Government wants backdoors yet sucks at security. California is forcing websites to spam me with "do you accept cookies?" now and let me opt out of them selling my data, yet every government website sells my data. Anyone can get a list of all registered voters' addresses, phone numbers, political parties, and voting times.
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Perhaps not, but i bet some who don't share to all, DO share their contacts.
That makes up for the gap, as equally as bad than personal info..

Facebook have shared to companies they got blasters for. What maes us think that Facebook even honers the "only people I wanna share with" factor ?

The people who share that stuff don't really care. Some of my friends share their live locations on Snapchat intentionally. So what, it's their choice.

 

[I7guy]

What requires Apple to sell their products in China?...

Why shouldn’t Apple sell their products and adhere to local laws and regulations?