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Apple's Private AI Will Run on Google's Servers
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Seriously, I think some people want to specifically limit the information they take in just to maintain a perspective. it says right there that google has no access to data:
I really think this is as simple as Apple needed the Gemini LLM short term, but has a Hardware requirement from a privacy perspective — and on the flip side, Google loves the idea that it's LLM was on every modern smart device. But there is no way in hell Google will let their LLM run on any hardware they don't own. Luckily google's hardware meets the established requirements, so a deal that doesn't compromise Apple's pre-set PCC bar for requirement can be made. So Google can monetize Gemini without risking giving Apple the opportunity to study their model running on their hardware.
...and if you don't think ANY of these tech companies can be held to their word — at least from a legal perspective — why in the world do you own one of their devices, much less put your information on it? This deal isn't about data, it's about money. Google is getting payyyyyyyyyed in this — projected to be between $1-5 B annually, and it's almost guaranteed to improve y-o-y. Very much like the search deal they have together.
I really think this is as simple as Apple needed the Gemini LLM short term, but has a Hardware requirement from a privacy perspective — and on the flip side, Google loves the idea that it's LLM was on every modern smart device. But there is no way in hell Google will let their LLM run on any hardware they don't own. Luckily google's hardware meets the established requirements, so a deal that doesn't compromise Apple's pre-set PCC bar for requirement can be made. So Google can monetize Gemini without risking giving Apple the opportunity to study their model running on their hardware.
Eh???? The overwhelming vast majority of Android devices are not Google hardware. (i.e. hardware they don't own). And Yet Gemini Nano runs just fine on them.
This who notion that Gemini can only run on specific hardware relatively baseless. Gemini runs on Google TPUs (hardware they own) , on Nvidia hardware (the configuration that Apple is using), and on a wide variety of hardware.
Apple licenese the Gemini models ( pragmatically software) so they can run it where they want to. This isn't the 'raw' Gemini models with a slick Apple facade slapped on top as a shiny wrapper.
mentaluproar
macrumors 68000
Is there an option to disable external AI features or is this an all or nothing kind of feature?
Google (the company) isn't processing it. The INtel chip and the Nvidia chip are processing it. Those are being run at a Google own server farm and Google bought the hardware, but 'Google' isn't directly doing the work.
From the Intel side the mechanism is TDX.
".. Intel® Trust Domain Extensions (Intel® TDX) is Intel's newest confidential computing technology. This hardware-based trusted execution environment (TEE) facilitates the deployment of trust domains (TD), which are hardware-isolated virtual machines (VM) designed to protect sensitive data and applications from unauthorized access. ..."
Intel® Trust Domain Extensions (Intel® TDX)
This hardware-based trusted execution environment helps deploy trust domains to protect sensitive data and applications from unauthorized access.
www.intel.com
This is virtual machine that is being run encrypted. So even if a Google Admin logs into the underlying Hypervisor.... they cannot see what is going on inside the virtual machine. The memory images are decypred 'just in time' to do work inside the processor.
Similar mechanism for the Nvidia GPU. Any hypervisor admin peeking in from the 'outside' is not going to see anything but encrypted memory.
Part of the long validation/debug process is that can't really see what is going on inside once it is running.
Data is sent into the VM encrypted. The keys to decrypt the user data sent in is also encrypted.
If there is a defect in the TDX implementation then can perhaps snoop, but if it is working correctly then generally no operator at Google needs to have access to this data for it to be processed.
iZac
macrumors 68040
Google recently signed to a $30 billion contract to use XAI servers. I thought it was just for the SpaceX IPO, but this really seems now like Google needs to instantly ramp up data centres for a huge new user base expansion?
Back in post 68 https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-run-on-googles-servers.2483566/post-34623871 there is a link to times of India article.
Only a specific subset of the new Models models ( AFM Cloud Pro ) will go to Google hosted hardware. So if you don't use the "ultra advanced features) then it won't go there. There are optional 'big models' that can be set, but not clear if can say 'nobody's big model'. There is a subduction of Apple Intelligence that decides where to dispatch to.
However, Apple has also set up new APIs so that App developers can also pick external models to dispatch to. So unlikely there will be one master toggle switch that stops everything from going off device.
Except via their Distributed Cloud air-gapped solution. They're happy to sell you the necessary hardware.
There are some serious misunderstandings around here about how Google operates, what their AI related offerings are, and how the world of really big computing works.
It is mainly to 'cook the books' to make the IPO look better. SpaceX has to cover up the huge 12 month bridge loan that is being used to misdirect from the financial crater that is 'Twitter'. Twitter has some huge junk debt that now belongs to SpaceX that is being hand=waved away.
Apple already was one of Google Clouds largest customers. Mush of the current iOS/IpadOS/MacOS user base was already using Google servers as part of Apple cloud services. It isn't so much the user base is growing as it is the computer that user base is using is growing. ( not more users, more compute). More likely though this is a ballon squeeze for other customers to this temporary xAI stuff rather than Apple. ( Apple may be 'pushing' some other current customers off and Google needs some interium place to put them. )
Apple mentioned that the this 'big model' stuff would be rate limited. ( a fixed number of request and will run out of quota for the month. iCloud+ having a longer leash because paying.). But pretty doubtful Apple is about to give away $30B of compute for free ( no charge to end users). A big chunk of that $30B is likely other folks who are paying to actually make some money from that compute to pay that bill. Apple is probably going to give away a couple Billion in 'free' compute; just not 30B.
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Will Co
macrumors 6502a
So many misunderstandings, presumably based on a lot of ignorance about how the technology works. It’s all just dog-whistle commentary. Google is bad. I get it. I don’t use those Google services either. People getting all fired up about this would do well to take the time to understand the difference between using GMail and posing a question complex enough that Siri AI needs to route part of it to the subsystem running securely on external servers that’s designed to handle that request. Servers that just happen to be operated by Google. There is just no comparison. Siri AI looks like it will be by far the most private and secure large scale AI service currently available.
groove-agent
macrumors 68020
gaggle
macrumors member
When data is cryptographically secured so only my/Apple's keys unlock it, Google et al. cannot snoop. That is a guarantee as far as this thread’s mistrust goes.
Yes yes backdoors and quantum and secret radiodetectors and other theoretical things, nothing is ever perfect, an enemy could listen to your monitor’s EM emissions to spy on you if you’re paranoid enough, but in all the practical ways we interact with our world these hyperscaled cloud providers are secure.
And Apple has their security openly vetted by security researchers: https://security.apple.com/documentation/private-cloud-compute/verifiabletransparency.
Yes yes backdoors and quantum and secret radiodetectors and other theoretical things, nothing is ever perfect, an enemy could listen to your monitor’s EM emissions to spy on you if you’re paranoid enough, but in all the practical ways we interact with our world these hyperscaled cloud providers are secure.
And Apple has their security openly vetted by security researchers: https://security.apple.com/documentation/private-cloud-compute/verifiabletransparency.
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ginkobiloba
macrumors 6502a
I usually get a serious “Yuck” reaction hearing the names Facebook and Google when it comes to privacy, but nuance has to be taken here. Thanks to the people who are taking the time to explain that while it may seem like a strange combination, the privacy steps taken by Apple are pretty solid .
Well, given that Google is now running some AI loads on Grok's servers (since Grok has done so poorly they don't need them for their original purpose, and apparently renting is more lucrative than selling), Apple is practically partnering with Musk already. 😬
Also as far as Apple missing the wave, yes they are. As with Maps, they'll live to regret this short-term cost savings path and then be relegated to always playing catch-up. One last fateful decision by Tim Cook.
I read that as "worthless google", and tried to figure out what you meant. Then I saw "goGGLE", and got it.
The Apple Vision Pro is FAR from worthless. There's a distinction to make between end products (sold in the marketplace), and the technology that goes into them. While the AVP may not be a huge seller (that was actually expected by Apple), the tech going into it will massively change our world over the next decade. That's a fact.
Big_D
macrumors 6502a
This is also no different to how iCloud used to run (still runs?), they used Google and MS infrastructure for the storage, but put their own privacy layers on top, to ensure that the data was encrypted end to end and at rest.
At a guess, the Apple AI will use custom instances, under Apple control, not the open Gemini models. It won't be your query going through Apple to Google's public Gemini instances, running the query (and possibly extracting information from it), but going from Apple to an Apple instance in the Google data center, running a special version of Gemini for Apple, meeting their privacy requirements, which include not using the query to learn from or storing the information provided in the query.
Keep guessing bud. Great strategy. Why not wait for the technical paper to inform us before guessing?
Well no wonder they can't get it approved by the EU, in combination with access to all the data they gather from mobile devices!
What the hell are they thinking?
Does anyone in the US slightly realise how Trump's actual repercussions to political opponents in Europe are undermining trust in American services?
What the hell are they thinking?
Does anyone in the US slightly realise how Trump's actual repercussions to political opponents in Europe are undermining trust in American services?
ErneX
macrumors regular
Where do you think iCloud is currently hosted? A mix of Amazon Web Services and Google Cloud.
Read a bit about how any of this works before jumping to conclusions, they are being very open about how all of this works and they even encourage independent auditors to validate it really is how they say it is.