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Okay, if I'm not correct the sharp readers at MacRumors will be more than happy to notate it.

Until then Apple is doing what the MacRumors universe in 2011 never thought possible. It's irrelevant to me whether one likes Apple of today, hates Apple of today, likes Tim Cook or hates Tim Cook, loves Steve Jobs or not.

We are here in 2022 and that is reality. Criticizing Tim Cook has done exactly what? Made Apple a $2T company?

I just love it you twist things around.

1. You are the one who is claiming that Tim brought iPhone 6 to life- when its actually Steve.

2. You are the one who is claiming Tim is responsible for apple 2T company. I simply asked you- what product or technology that Tim brought to market?

Apple is a 2T company because the foundation and ecosystem was built by Jobs and Jobs team.

Cook has blown chance on dominating automotive space- that was all him.

Again- what innovation has he brought to the market- zilch.
 
I just love it you twist things around.

1. You are the one who is claiming that Tim brought iPhone 6 to life- when its actually Steve.
Show me a solid reference and I’ll believe it.
2. You are the one who is claiming Tim is responsible for apple 2T company. I simply asked you- what product or technology that Tim brought to market?
It clearly wasn’t Steve responsible for the $2T company. He was dead.
Apple is a 2T company because the foundation and ecosystem was built by Jobs and Jobs team.
Which Tim took and on 11 years did what some thought was impossible.
Cook has blown chance on dominating automotive space- that was all him.
Ok, we’re all arm chair ceos at macrumors. “He blew it.”
Again- what innovation has he brought to the market- zilch.
$2T is his innovation. You can find this innovation in there.
 
Actually you are wrong.

iPhone 6 was last form factor Jobs planned.

Despite publicly stated no one wanted a phablet, it was already in the work.

Same with Apple Pencil.

Don’t believe what is stated in public. There are things Job missed. But phablet and pencil aren’t misses.

Apple has a 2 year development cycle on the phones after form factor is given and approved by Jobs/ID. iPhone 6 was launched in late 2014, with actual engineering design starting in 2012 and ID would have begun work back in 2011. Jobs already knew and planned a phatblet before he died.

Jobs already knew he wouldn't come back after leaving in 2010. There are a lot of things Job planned ahead.

Cook hasn't really innovated.

Apple car was jobs/Ive next big product. Which Tim has utterly screwed up.

Yep apple knew years ahead of iPhone 6 that’s where they wanted to go. iOS and apps had to be transitioned first. Even the janitors at apple knew this. Lol

Hate to say it but apple pretty much ran itself with Cook. A monkey could’ve ran it. Watch was obvious. iPod nano started that talk. iPad even more obvious. None of this is Tim’s vision. He’s too busy lying about customer sat or dreaming of apple cars when analysts were wondering if apple has anything besides iPhone.

What’s apple doing with the cash. Tim is like ..duh. Apple car! Awesome they said. He’s thinking yeah right like we’ll do a car. But gets these idiots off my back. What else can I do? Services. Hey Netflix looks cool. Let’s do that.
 
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Show me a solid reference and I’ll believe it.

It clearly wasn’t Steve responsible for the $2T company. He was dead.

Which Tim took and on 11 years did what some thought was impossible.

Ok, we’re all arm chair ceos at macrumors. “He blew it.”

$2T is his innovation. You can find this innovation in there.

1. Why do you need to continue to lie?


How many sources do you need?

It’s was statement made by Apple corporate employee as liaison to government.

iPhone 5 and 6 were both Jobs.

2. 2T is a number. What innovation did cook brought?

Show me. 2T was result of Jobs product and ecosystem. Cook did nothing on product or innovation.

All he did was bring in cheap China based supplier, squeezed supplier for cost reduction.

Again- you are the one that needs to show proof that Cook innovation created 2T company.

Name one new product he brought to Apple. Zero.
 
Yep apple knew years ahead of iPhone 6 that’s where they wanted to go. iOS and apps had to be transitioned first. Even the janitors at apple knew this. Lol

Not only iOS and apps, but the material, the actual HW needs time to source and mature.

It’s not like you can pull stuff out of thin air.

I am just amazed that someone who has zero clue on product development would have the balls to state things that clearly out of his realm.
 
He didn’t grew Apple.

That foundation and ecosystem was built by jobs and the team jobs created.
You know this, how?

A ship without a captain will run out of steam very very soon.

Steve Job brought in Tim Cook so that Apple's operation can be streamlined, because IMHO Steve Jobs knew that in order to grow the company, top notch operations is paramount. No point designing the best products in the world but customers cannot get their hands on it because Apple cannot produce them fast enough.

A large corporation is not just one person. It has to be a well co-ordinated entity to succeed, but I'm sure you know that.

Name one product that is signature product that Cook has single handed created?

None.

From engineering, product- what has he really brought to market?
Apple Watch? M1 Apple Silicon SoC? MacBooks that is industry leading in performance and energy efficiency?

This is silly. Steve Jobs did not create the iPod or the iPhone. Apple's engineer did. Similar to Apple Watch and Apple Silicon.

It is the leadership that decides what product area to focus on.

Steve Jobs is not an engineer by any stretch. The early Apple's magic was the work of Steve Wozniak AFAIK. But Steve Jobs has an eye for what works and what didn't. Similarly I would say Tim Cook, Apple's management and Apple's board of directors knows what the customer of today and in the future wants.

Since you have inside information as you claims to work for Apple, do Apple engineers have full say in what project to work on?

Cook blew SPG and entry into automotive. Had he had gut to pull trigger back in 2017. Apple car would already be one year into production with a platform/tech ahead of Tesla.

Cook blew it with Siri and CarPlay. Which allowed Amazon Alexa to be dominant in automotive space. Amazon was smart giving away Alexa.

Apple would have been even more stronger had Siri/CarPlay made the necessary investment last several years. Heck Apple car would be dominating automotive segment with Apple purchasing power. Instead it gave Saudis a leg up on EV space.
You are equating the failure of Siri and CarPlay to Tim Cook's failure steering Apple? How much revenue do you think both products will bring in for Apple? Why do you think Siri is important for Apple in that they have to be top dog beating Alexa?

The Apple Hi-Fi product is not any successful as well IIRC. I would say Carplay is more successful compared to Apple Hi-Fi, do you agree?

Anyway, such disccussions (mud-slinging?) are meaningless. People makes mistakes. Learning from past mistakes is the important thing here.

You don't have the first hand knowledge.
Do you sit in the board of directors at Apple? Are you telling everyone that you knew everything that Apple has been planning and will plan in the future?

If you are, can you let us know what Apple will be releasing next?

Finally, you seem very agitated and you seem to dislike Tim Cook quite a bit. Maybe you should calm down?

Letting go of the past and embracing the future may be a good start?
 
1. Why do you need to continue to lie?

No the burden of proof is on you, not me. You are the one making the claim. I don't really who developed the iphone 6. Cook executed it with perfection and introduced Apple Pay. And from that point on Apple was on a roll.
How many sources do you need?
Need one source that spells it out with clarity.
It’s was statement made by Apple corporate employee as liaison to government.

iPhone 5 and 6 were both Jobs.
Great.
2. 2T is a number. What innovation did cook brought?
He bought $2T. And if Apple doesn't meet your requirements today, there is competition. Cook brought the iphone 6 to market. He could have killed it. I supposed next you are going to claim that Apple Pay wasn't developed by Cook.
Show me. 2T was result of Jobs product and ecosystem. Cook did nothing on product or innovation.
Irrelevant. Shareholders and customers (save for a few MacRumors posters are happy)
All he did was bring in cheap China based supplier, squeezed supplier for cost reduction.
That's called doing his job.
Again- you are the one that needs to show proof that Cook innovation created 2T company.
You can read the Apple press releases to see the innovation. Innovation around here is a personal sliding scale, everybody views it differently. But sure there are many laughing all the way to the bank at this "lack of innovation".
Name one new product he brought to Apple. Zero.
You have an axe to grind and I am a happy customer. With 1 billion customers or so there are sure to be a variety of opinions.
 
You know this, how?

A ship without a captain will run out of steam very very soon.

Steve Job brought in Tim Cook so that Apple's operation can be streamlined, because IMHO Steve Jobs knew that in order to grow the company, top notch operations is paramount. No point designing the best products in the world but customers cannot get their hands on it because Apple cannot produce them fast enough.

A large corporation is not just one person. It has to be a well co-ordinated entity to succeed, but I'm sure you know that.


Apple Watch? M1 Apple Silicon SoC? MacBooks that is industry leading in performance and energy efficiency?

This is silly. Steve Jobs did not create the iPod or the iPhone. Apple's engineer did. Similar to Apple Watch and Apple Silicon.

It is the leadership that decides what product area to focus on.

Steve Jobs is not an engineer by any stretch. The early Apple's magic was the work of Steve Wozniak AFAIK. But Steve Jobs has an eye for what works and what didn't. Similarly I would say Tim Cook, Apple's management and Apple's board of directors knows what the customer of today and in the future wants.

Since you have inside information as you claims to work for Apple, do Apple engineers have full say in what project to work on?


You are equating the failure of Siri and CarPlay to Tim Cook's failure steering Apple? How much revenue do you think both products will bring in for Apple? Why do you think Siri is important for Apple in that they have to be top dog beating Alexa?

The Apple Hi-Fi product is not any successful as well IIRC. I would say Carplay is more successful compared to Apple Hi-Fi, do you agree?

Anyway, such disccussions (mud-slinging?) are meaningless. People makes mistakes. Learning from past mistakes is the important thing here.


Do you sit in the board of directors at Apple? Are you telling everyone that you knew everything that Apple has been planning and will plan in the future?

If you are, can you let us know what Apple will be releasing next?

Finally, you seem very agitated and you seem to dislike Tim Cook quite a bit. Maybe you should calm down?

Letting go of the past and embracing the future may be a good start?
1. Because I was in PD for the phone.

2. You got to be kidding me right. It wasn’t Tim that spend $400M back in early 2000 to buy ARM development team.

M1/M2 was direct result of Apple buying that ARM team under Jobs.

Apple always had plan to control its own silicon destiny. That isn’t Tim plan.

3. The point is that none of you guys have any idea on what really happened behind close door.

I don’t dislike Tim- but he literally has done nothing to grow apple other than improve the margin.

I know what apple did on the automotive side because I was part of another successful IPO which Apple could have bought in the EV space had Tim has gut to make the call.

I just found amazing that none of you guys are in the industry and knows absolutely nothing giving Tim credit he isn’t deserving.

BTW- it’s always the plan for all of the big tech in the bay to kill off Intel and AMD by investing heavily into ARM. Those were 10 years in the making. Ain’t some operation guys counting beans.
 
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1. Because I was in PD for the phone.

2. You got to be kidding me right. It wasn’t Tim that spend $400M back in early 2000 to buy ARM development team.

M1/M2 was direct result of Apple buying that ARM team under Jobs.

Apple always had plan to control its own silicon destiny. That isn’t Tim plan.

3. The point is that none of you guys have any idea on what really happened behind close door.

I don’t dislike Tim- but he literally has done nothing to grow apple other than improve the margin.

I know what apple did on the automotive side because I was part of another successful IPO which Apple would have bought in the EV space had Tim has gut to make the call.

I just found amazing that none of you guys are in the industry and knows absolutely nothing giving Tim credit he isn’t deserving.
I'm not trying to be-little your knowledge or experience here, but any CEO of a public listed company have no rights to decide to proceed with an acquisition without an in-depth discussion and approval of the board of directors, especially for a $400M one.

Would it be possible that Apple's top management, including Tim Cook collectively decided that purchasing PA-Semi (for $278M) is a good idea and brought it up to the board of directors? Would you know? I don't think you or me knows that.

IMHO, an Apple Car or EV is all rumours. Companies hedges bets all the time. I believe there is such a project in Apple, but whether it is an actual car (EV or hybrid or ICE), the control system, entertain system, or any variations, I don't know. Do you?

Saying that Tim Cook coasted from a <200B (in 2011 company) to a 2-3T market valuation company now without having any contribution is selling him short, whichever way I look at it, IMHO. Tim Cook joined Apple in 1998 and I believe he started transforming Apple into what it is today together with Steve Jobs since he joined.

I had doubts in Tim Cook's leadership when he took over in 2011, as Steve Jobs was such an icon, but so far, he has proven to be a very good (excellent I might add) CEO for Apple, IMHO.

Do calm down tho. We're in a friendly discussion here. No need to raise any pitch forks over a discussion with strangers.
 
I'm not trying to be-little your knowledge or experience here, but any CEO of a public listed company have no rights to decide to proceed with an acquisition without an in-depth discussion and approval of the board of directors, especially for a $400M one.

Would it be possible that Apple's top management, including Tim Cook collectively decided that purchasing PA-Semi (for $278M) is a good idea and brought it up to the board of directors? Would you know? I don't think you or me knows that.

IMHO, an Apple Car or EV is all rumours. Companies hedges bets all the time. I believe there is such a project in Apple, but whether it is an actual car (EV or hybrid or ICE), the control system, entertain system, or any variations, I don't know. Do you?

Saying that Tim Cook coasted from a <200B (in 2011 company) to a 2-3T market valuation company now without having any contribution is selling him short, whichever way I look at it, IMHO. Tim Cook joined Apple in 1998 and I believe he started transforming Apple into what it is today together with Steve Jobs since he joined.

I had doubts in Tim Cook's leadership when he took over in 2011, as Steve Jobs was such an icon, but so far, he has proven to be a very good (excellent I might add) CEO for Apple, IMHO.

Do calm down tho. We're in a friendly discussion here. No need to raise any pitch forks over a discussion with strangers.
I think you are mistaken on the original topic.

Tim did have his contribution and without him to be the dirty hands in grinding the poor peasants in China. Apple would not have delivered as well.

But the main point of this thread was talking about innovation and why did Apple lost its way in that front. Because it’s now a bean counter company.

Apple car was always a pet project of Jobs. Whether it’s EV or not. But Apple was in a unique position, because it literally has every ingredient available to dominate the car ecosystem.

I have tons of Apple stock, it’s just pity that this opportunity to dominate another market just got wasted.

Jobs was much better in seeing the big picture, HW was never the goal. It’s how to tie the user to the ecosystem- the attention spend on the ecosystem was the key.

Typically we spend 2 hours each day in our vehicle. Ability to control what you see and hear and access in the car is also another way to grab your time and monetize.

Why did you think Amazon gave away Alexa to automotive OEM- it’s the control they are after. Same with Google recent partnership with Nissan/Renault/Mitsubishi on vehicle ecosystem. Apple is doing same recently. But they could have done that 4-5 years earlier.

Every acquisition needs to go the board for approval. But making that pitch it’s CEO job. Plus the amount needs to be invested was much less than a month of profit for apple.

When the $400M investment in arm was made by jobs, do you think anyone on the board would have go against Jobs? Same with Cook- board wouldn’t say or lift a finger against him either.

Tim has power over the board not the other way around.
 
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I think you are mistaken on the original topic.

Tim did have his contribution and without him to be the dirty hands in grinding the poor peasants in China. Apple would not have delivered as well.

But the main point of this thread was talking about innovation and why did Apple lost its way in that front. Because it’s now a bean counter company.

Apple car was always a pet project of Jobs. Whether it’s EV or not. But Apple was in a unique position, because it literally has every ingredient available to dominate the car ecosystem.

I have tons of Apple stock, it’s just pity that this opportunity to dominate another market just got wasted.

Jobs was much better in seeing the big picture, HW was never the goal. It’s how to tie the user to the ecosystem- the attention spend on the ecosystem was the key.

Typically we spend 2 hours each day in our vehicle. Ability to control what you see and hear and access in the car is also another way to grab your time and monetize.

Why did you think Amazon gave away Alexa to automotive OEM- it’s the control they are after. Same with Google recent partnership with Nissan/Renault/Mitsubishi on vehicle ecosystem. Apple is doing same recently. But they could have done that 4-5 years earlier.

Every acquisition needs to go the board for approval. But making that pitch it’s CEO job. Plus the amount needs to be invested was much less than a month of profit for apple.

When the $400M investment in arm was made by jobs, do you think anyone on the board would have go against Jobs? Same with Cook- board wouldn’t say or lift a finger against him either.

Tim has power over the board not the other way around.
Points noted.

Let's see how Apple progresses over the next 10 years.
 
I just love it you twist things around.

1. You are the one who is claiming that Tim brought iPhone 6 to life- when its actually Steve.

2. You are the one who is claiming Tim is responsible for apple 2T company. I simply asked you- what product or technology that Tim brought to market?

Apple is a 2T company because the foundation and ecosystem was built by Jobs and Jobs team.

Cook has blown chance on dominating automotive space- that was all him.

Again- what innovation has he brought to the market- zilch.
I have always felt that Tim Cook's biggest legacy at Apple wasn't so much any one revolutionary product that he spearheaded, but his acute business acumen. Tim Cook's appointment as CEO was not predicated on his ability to one day become a product visionary (that role went to Jony Ive). Instead, Tim Cook would go on to methodically build a formidable moat that has both successfully defended against invaders and grown its install base considerably, and this is what has led to Apple weathering the current economic storm way better than other once tech-darlings like Google and Facebook (who today just announced they were retrenching more than 10,000 people).

Since Tim Cook took over in 2011, I have bore witness to how the iPhone install base has steadily grown to well over a billion users currently, and I don't think you can attribute this milestone sole to Steve Job alone, and not the people running the company who also helped make this a reality, because they are the ones who set the current direction for the company (and then the rest execute).

It's also going to sound ironic in a thread with people bashing Apple for supposedly prioritising profits over everything else, but I find that their actions is precisely because Apple had learnt a painful lesson from the past when they did precisely that - focus too much on profits at the expense of market share. And I think this is the context that people are missing.

Tim Cook would first begin by doubling down on the iPhone. They went from selling the 4s model in 2011 to adopting a multi-year strategy of gradually lowering iPhone pricing and offering more variations (sometimes including a mix of older models) in order to reach larger swaths of the smartphone user base. This is the exact opposite of their Mac strategy in the 1990s, where Apple had a complicated web of Mac models, each with different feature sets meant to chase a particular market niche.

In addition to making the iPhone more accessible to users, Apple is still able to maintain industry-leading profit margins (the iPhone SE likely has a margin comparable to flagship iPhones by virtue of being able to reuse an old but timeless design that has all but been amortised over the years). You don't see such a strategy working with the competition.

There is a certain elegance and beauty in the way Apple has been able to execute their business strategy flawlessly year after year that I feel has gone largely under-appreciated in a forum where being "innovative" is often conflated with being "first", even if it means said company is first to come out with a product that nobody wants or is otherwise fundamentally flawed.

You then have 1 billion-strong active user base who then goes on to purchase other Apple products (eg: iPads, Macs), accessories (Apple Watch, AirPods), services (Apple One, AppleCare), apps etc. You have services like iMessage proving incredibly effective in retaining existing iPhone users. Heck, Apple even earns from each and every Apple Pay transaction even as we speak!

It is this affluent user base that will give the rumoured AR glasses the boost it needs to succeed as well, simply because most of the people with the disposable income to spend on an expensive iPhone accessory are, by definition, iPhone users!

This is Tim Cook's innovation - the building of a formidable ecosystem around the iPhone that has led to record sales year after year after year. I don't know how one can do better, but I can certainly think of a multiple of ways that Apple could have done a lot worse in (and I can't resist pointing out that a lot of them started out as suggestions about what Apple "ought to do" or risk being "doomed"). Acquire Netflix anyone? :rolleyes:
 
[...]

But the main point of this thread was talking about innovation and why did Apple lost its way in that front. Because it’s now a bean counter company.
The main point of the thread is heresay as this is a rumors site. I'm happy though to discuss the heresay, of which there is plenty.
Apple car was always a pet project of Jobs. Whether it’s EV or not. But Apple was in a unique position, because it literally has every ingredient available to dominate the car ecosystem.
Are you blaming this on Cook? The blame should be on Jobs.
I have tons of Apple stock, it’s just pity that this opportunity to dominate another market just got wasted.
Yes, there are many of us who own tons of Apple stock.
Jobs was much better in seeing the big picture, HW was never the goal. It’s how to tie the user to the ecosystem- the attention spend on the ecosystem was the key.
It seems Cook did very well in this area.
Typically we spend 2 hours each day in our vehicle. Ability to control what you see and hear and access in the car is also another way to grab your time and monetize.

Why did you think Amazon gave away Alexa to automotive OEM- it’s the control they are after. Same with Google recent partnership with Nissan/Renault/Mitsubishi on vehicle ecosystem. Apple is doing same recently. But they could have done that 4-5 years earlier.
I agree. Carplay could have become a thing earlier than it did.
Every acquisition needs to go the board for approval. But making that pitch it’s CEO job. Plus the amount needs to be invested was much less than a month of profit for apple.

When the $400M investment in arm was made by jobs, do you think anyone on the board would have go against Jobs? Same with Cook- board wouldn’t say or lift a finger against him either.

Tim has power over the board not the other way around.
 
I like the current era of Apple's design.

Thinness and curves - which add weakness to the chassis and glass (so I read) - have been replaced by an almost brutalist functional design.

Case in point - the new MBPs and MBA are excellent.

No doubt also, this means that the chassis has no wasted space inside re. interior components.

Case in point - I think that we can see the beginnings of this in the iPhone 14 and how it flips open both sides.

However I can see why industrial designers are jumping.

There's a growing stinginess to keep old product lines - and production lines - and form factors around for years and years, which is unbecoming for such a rich company (ditto Apple's alleged plan to expand advertising throughout iOS).

Case in point - launching the 10th gen iPad with the very old Apple Pencil.

I would not be surprised if the Car and the VR/AVR products are being developed with Jony Ive's firm consulting on them.

If Apple are developing a folding iPhone - and I'm sure that they must be - I bet Jony is consulting on that too.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jony Ive is still essentially running the look of the regular (i.e. non folding) iPhone on a consultancy basis.

In that regard, there's likely not much new interesting work to do now at Apple - just incremental versions of very well established form factors, which is probably very boring for a talented industrial designer.

Especially when they're probably wanting to keep various products up to date only to be told that oh no, the form factor of 2014, 2018 etc. is still fine.
 
The main point of the thread is heresay as this is a rumors site. I'm happy though to discuss the heresay, of which there is plenty.

Are you blaming this on Cook? The blame should be on Jobs.

Yes, there are many of us who own tons of Apple stock.

It seems Cook did very well in this area.

I agree. Carplay could have become a thing earlier than it did.

1. It’s not heresay. It was from apple own government lisaon. You just can’t accept the fact.

2. Ecosystems was all Jobs vision. It was never Cook. So far the lower price iphone while doing ok still not as high volume as pro. iPhone 14 has been struggling.

3. Cars I blame cook- because he botched project Titan, he didn’t invest in Siri and CarPlay until 1.5 years ago. The new CarPlay partnership looked great. But that should have happened 4-5 years ago when Alexa went full in.

Ecosystem was main point of jobs legacy. Not Tim.
 
I have always felt that Tim Cook's biggest legacy at Apple wasn't so much any one revolutionary product that he spearheaded, but his acute business acumen. Tim Cook's appointment as CEO was not predicated on his ability to one day become a product visionary (that role went to Jony Ive). Instead, Tim Cook would go on to methodically build a formidable moat that has both successfully defended against invaders and grown its install base considerably, and this is what has led to Apple weathering the current economic storm way better than other once tech-darlings like Google and Facebook (who today just announced they were retrenching more than 10,000 people).

Since Tim Cook took over in 2011, I have bore witness to how the iPhone install base has steadily grown to well over a billion users currently, and I don't think you can attribute this milestone sole to Steve Job alone, and not the people running the company who also helped make this a reality, because they are the ones who set the current direction for the company (and then the rest execute).

It's also going to sound ironic in a thread with people bashing Apple for supposedly prioritising profits over everything else, but I find that their actions is precisely because Apple had learnt a painful lesson from the past when they did precisely that - focus too much on profits at the expense of market share. And I think this is the context that people are missing.

Tim Cook would first begin by doubling down on the iPhone. They went from selling the 4s model in 2011 to adopting a multi-year strategy of gradually lowering iPhone pricing and offering more variations (sometimes including a mix of older models) in order to reach larger swaths of the smartphone user base. This is the exact opposite of their Mac strategy in the 1990s, where Apple had a complicated web of Mac models, each with different feature sets meant to chase a particular market niche.

In addition to making the iPhone more accessible to users, Apple is still able to maintain industry-leading profit margins (the iPhone SE likely has a margin comparable to flagship iPhones by virtue of being able to reuse an old but timeless design that has all but been amortised over the years). You don't see such a strategy working with the competition.

There is a certain elegance and beauty in the way Apple has been able to execute their business strategy flawlessly year after year that I feel has gone largely under-appreciated in a forum where being "innovative" is often conflated with being "first", even if it means said company is first to come out with a product that nobody wants or is otherwise fundamentally flawed.

You then have 1 billion-strong active user base who then goes on to purchase other Apple products (eg: iPads, Macs), accessories (Apple Watch, AirPods), services (Apple One, AppleCare), apps etc. You have services like iMessage proving incredibly effective in retaining existing iPhone users. Heck, Apple even earns from each and every Apple Pay transaction even as we speak!

It is this affluent user base that will give the rumoured AR glasses the boost it needs to succeed as well, simply because most of the people with the disposable income to spend on an expensive iPhone accessory are, by definition, iPhone users!

This is Tim Cook's innovation - the building of a formidable ecosystem around the iPhone that has led to record sales year after year after year. I don't know how one can do better, but I can certainly think of a multiple of ways that Apple could have done a lot worse in (and I can't resist pointing out that a lot of them started out as suggestions about what Apple "ought to do" or risk being "doomed"). Acquire Netflix anyone? :rolleyes:

1. What bothers me the most is that lower price point iphone- wasn’t Tim idea. Again- install base and trap more people into this ecosystem has always been Jobs idea from day one.

Tim had no say on phablet, or 5C. It was always in the plan to expand offering of iPhone.

2. Jobs didn’t return to Apple until 96. Within 2 years- he was the one focus on the design (plastic iMAC). It was him and Ive design that allowed Apple to turn profit.

3. macOS and iPod came along and iTunes started this move to ecosystem.

4. I found amazing that none of the so called ecosystems was part of Tim legacy. iPad was launched by jobs (K48- there were two competing design team internally). Watch was already experimenting right at time jobs died. The fallacy here is as an outsider you had assumed that product launch date is the sole judgement of who was working on what. In reality, Jobs and Ive as well as Scott Forstall were already working on all those items years ahead.

iMessage was launched 6 days after jobs death. It doesn’t meant Cook was the one behind it.

Tim is good at what he does. Relentless grind of operation. But product and ecosystem is all Jobs head.

It’s amazing that you can’t even get history straight.
 
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I have always felt that Tim Cook's biggest legacy at Apple wasn't so much any one revolutionary product that he spearheaded, but his acute business acumen. Tim Cook's appointment as CEO was not predicated on his ability to one day become a product visionary (that role went to Jony Ive). Instead, Tim Cook would go on to methodically build a formidable moat that has both successfully defended against invaders and grown its install base considerably, and this is what has led to Apple weathering the current economic storm way better than other once tech-darlings like Google and Facebook (who today just announced they were retrenching more than 10,000 people).

Since Tim Cook took over in 2011, I have bore witness to how the iPhone install base has steadily grown to well over a billion users currently, and I don't think you can attribute this milestone sole to Steve Job alone, and not the people running the company who also helped make this a reality, because they are the ones who set the current direction for the company (and then the rest execute).

It's also going to sound ironic in a thread with people bashing Apple for supposedly prioritising profits over everything else, but I find that their actions is precisely because Apple had learnt a painful lesson from the past when they did precisely that - focus too much on profits at the expense of market share. And I think this is the context that people are missing.

Tim Cook would first begin by doubling down on the iPhone. They went from selling the 4s model in 2011 to adopting a multi-year strategy of gradually lowering iPhone pricing and offering more variations (sometimes including a mix of older models) in order to reach larger swaths of the smartphone user base. This is the exact opposite of their Mac strategy in the 1990s, where Apple had a complicated web of Mac models, each with different feature sets meant to chase a particular market niche.

In addition to making the iPhone more accessible to users, Apple is still able to maintain industry-leading profit margins (the iPhone SE likely has a margin comparable to flagship iPhones by virtue of being able to reuse an old but timeless design that has all but been amortised over the years). You don't see such a strategy working with the competition.

There is a certain elegance and beauty in the way Apple has been able to execute their business strategy flawlessly year after year that I feel has gone largely under-appreciated in a forum where being "innovative" is often conflated with being "first", even if it means said company is first to come out with a product that nobody wants or is otherwise fundamentally flawed.

You then have 1 billion-strong active user base who then goes on to purchase other Apple products (eg: iPads, Macs), accessories (Apple Watch, AirPods), services (Apple One, AppleCare), apps etc. You have services like iMessage proving incredibly effective in retaining existing iPhone users. Heck, Apple even earns from each and every Apple Pay transaction even as we speak!

It is this affluent user base that will give the rumoured AR glasses the boost it needs to succeed as well, simply because most of the people with the disposable income to spend on an expensive iPhone accessory are, by definition, iPhone users!

This is Tim Cook's innovation - the building of a formidable ecosystem around the iPhone that has led to record sales year after year after year. I don't know how one can do better, but I can certainly think of a multiple of ways that Apple could have done a lot worse in (and I can't resist pointing out that a lot of them started out as suggestions about what Apple "ought to do" or risk being "doomed"). Acquire Netflix anyone? :rolleyes:
Let’s clear up some history here

1. Jobs returned to Apple in 1996.
2. Jobs was the one who cut 70% of Apple messy product line back in 1997. One desk top and one laptop- killed peripherals.
3. Cook didn’t join apple until 1998.
4. iMac was launched in 1998 followed by the colorful iBook.
5. Pro market- Steve cut it do power max G3 and PowerBook.

That is before 2000. Steve made choice clean and easy. Apple was able to return profit within 2 years of his return. That has nothing to do with cook.

MacOS came along, changed how the apple laptop and desktop ecosystem.

Then one of the best moves under jobs was launch of iPods and iTunes where monetization of service was kickstarted.

Then iphone jumped onto scene with even more enclosed iOS. Where SAS now become apple main focus.

iMessage was already in the works by 2010 and formally launched on october 2011.

How does any of this has to do with Tim?
 
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1. It’s not heresay. It was from apple own government lisaon. You just can’t accept the fact.
There is no proof of the features of functions or size of the phone. You are taking heresay to mean the phone was fully fleshed out 4 years before manufacture. And that may not be the case. And there is zero proof the iphone 6 was a bigger phone in 2010, unless Tim Cook spills the beans.
2. Ecosystems was all Jobs vision. It was never Cook. So far the lower price iphone while doing ok still not as high volume as pro. iPhone 14 has been struggling.
It may have been a vision, but Tim Cook brought it all together.
3. Cars I blame cook- because he botched project Titan, he didn’t invest in Siri and CarPlay until 1.5 years ago. The new CarPlay partnership looked great. But that should have happened 4-5 years ago when Alexa went full in.

Ecosystem was main point of jobs legacy. Not Tim.
This is the type of conversation where MR posters claim a monkey could run Apple better than Mr. Cook. I'd like to see it.
 
There is no proof of the features of functions or size of the phone. You are taking heresay to mean the phone was fully fleshed out 4 years before manufacture. And that may not be the case. And there is zero proof the iphone 6 was a bigger phone in 2010, unless Tim Cook spills the beans.

It may have been a vision, but Tim Cook brought it all together.

This is the type of conversation where MR posters claim a monkey could run Apple better than Mr. Cook. I'd like to see it.
Just stop here.

You were already proven wrong. Period.

Tim Cook had no power over apple product map for at least 2 years after jobs passed.

You weren’t part of it. So just stay quiet.
 
Let’s clear up some history here

1. Jobs returned to Apple in 1996.
2. Jobs was the one who cut 70% of Apple messy product line back in 1997. One desk top and one laptop- killed peripherals.
3. Cook didn’t join apple until 1998.
4. iMac was launched in 1998 followed by the colorful iBook.
5. Pro market- Steve cut it do power max G3 and PowerBook.

That is before 2000. Steve made choice clean and easy. Apple was able to return profit within 2 years of his return. That has nothing to do with cook.

MacOS came along, changed how the apple laptop and desktop ecosystem.

Then one of the best moves under jobs was launch of iPods and iTunes where monetization of service was kickstarted.

Then iphone jumped onto scene with even more enclosed iOS. Where SAS now become apple main focus.

iMessage was already in the works by 2010 and formally launched on october 2011.

How does any of this has to do with Tim?

How has Apple’s current success got nothing to do with Tim Cook at all? That’s my point.

Different people are needed at different points in a company’s history. Jobs was right for his era, but he would have been a disaster for the Cook era. Cook is amazing, and has been responsible for most of the current achievements of Apple, just not the initial innovation and concept that Jobs provided (which was never the main area of contention).

Cook has refined the culture and expanded it, and has done as fine a job as any CEO in American history, if not world business history, in my opinion. People here seem upset that he’s not another firebrand speaker like Elon Musk, and that’s really their problem, not Tim’s.

He's basically Eisenhower, not Churchill, and there’s nothing wrong with that. My guess is that even if Steve Jobs were still alive, he would likely have stepped down by now and handed over the reins of the company to Tim Cook anyways.
 
Just stop here.

You were already proven wrong. Period.
You weren't proven right either about the iphone 6. Not that there wasn't an iphone 6, but fully fleshed out. Full stop. Period. You also don't know if Tim Cook told Steve Jobs 4 years ago...we need to make a bigger phone.
Tim Cook had no power over apple product map for at least 2 years after jobs passed.
Opinion.
You weren’t part of it. So just stay quiet.
You can't prove anything either. All you are doing is throwing around heresay.
 
How has Apple’s current success got nothing to do with Tim Cook at all? That’s my point.

Different people are needed at different points in a company’s history. Jobs was right for his era, but he would have been a disaster for the Cook era. Cook is amazing, and has been responsible for most of the current achievements of Apple, just not the initial innovation and concept that Jobs provided (which was never the main area of contention).

Cook has refined the culture and expanded it, and has done as fine a job as any CEO in American history, if not world business history, in my opinion. People here seem upset that he’s not another firebrand speaker like Elon Musk, and that’s really their problem, not Tim’s.

He's basically Eisenhower, not Churchill, and there’s nothing wrong with that. My guess is that even if Steve Jobs were still alive, he would likely have stepped down by now and handed over the reins of the company to Tim Cook anyways.

Again- stay on topic.

The original topic was about innovation and product design.

That was main area of discussion here.

You and i7 were the wrong who was making wrong assumptions and argument.

Without Jobs foundation and vision. There is no apple.

That was main point of discussion here. You are the wrong jumping all over the place.

Focus on the topic.
 
You weren't proven right either about the iphone 6. Not that there wasn't an iphone 6, but fully fleshed out. Full stop. Period. You also don't know if Tim Cook told Steve Jobs 4 years ago...we need to make a bigger phone.

Opinion.

You can't prove anything either. All you are doing is throwing around heresay.

You are the one ask for proof and were proven wrong. I actually saw the mock-up of iPhone 6 back in mid 2010 at the ID lab. It was first time with many shade of rose gold.

Again- you don’t have a clue and have already been proven wrong.

You are the one throwing heresay despite apple own testimony to CA district attorney.

All Apple product up to the time I left in 2012 always start with an ID mock up. Apple is a unique company in its design where form/shape was determined a lot earlier than anything else.

PD job was simply find a way to fit the platform into already pre-determined space. That is what was difficult with design. Because you can’t change the ID.

The point was Steve was the one green lighted the phablet. Ain’t cook. Period.

Just stop. You are making up things which you have zero clue.
 
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