Apple's Product Design Team Reportedly Focused More on Costs in Recent Years

[Krispykrme]

My friend there is a context here you may have missed if you didn’t follow the thread.
-OP: Steve Jobs designed the iPhone 5s and iPhone 6.
-ME: Proof?
-OP: some article with vague references
-Me: that’s not proof that’s hear say
-OP: cook let employee lie?
-me: jobs designed the iPhone 6 as a tablet in 2010?
-OP: crickets

See the issue?

The issue is all you.

On one hand you can’t accept the fact that phablet was Steve product. Because your faulty logic and won’t accept public record.

Yet- you are okay to put blame on factory explosion, child labor issues that occurred well after jobs death as his fault.

Again- answer the question!

BTW- that story was written by Mark Gurman- who is Bloomberg correspondent on Apple.

San Francisco DA met with Apple over phone thefts, hints next two iPhones designed under Jobs - 9to5Mac

The San Francisco Examiner reports on meetings between San Francisco District Attorney George Gascón and mobile device makers regarding phone thefts. Because...

9to5mac.com

Which probably have way more credibility than you.

You have no logic, no knowledge, no credibility.

It’s actually amusing .

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

The difference is, Apple is now a trillion dollar company and has a really strong brand. Apple can literally do nothing and be profitable for years to come, assuming they are not throwing out money and tanking their stock like Meta is doing now.

Maybe that's true but there is an obvious and growing perception that they are churning out the same boring products year after year.

 

[ian87w]

Maybe that's true but there is an obvious and growing perception that they are churning out the same boring products year after year.

That perception won't matter when Tim Cook keeps showing revenue records YoY. The easiest indicator is AAPL. If it keeps going, that means investors have confidence on Apple's future. Sad but true. Blue chip companies are "boring."

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

That perception won't matter when Tim Cook keeps showing revenue records YoY. The easiest indicator is AAPL. If it keeps going, that means investors have confidence on Apple's future. Sad but true. Blue chip companies are "boring."

In who's mind? Warren Buffett?

Nobody outside of investment circles cares about the share price.

 

[Krispykrme]

That perception won't matter when Tim Cook keeps showing revenue records YoY. The easiest indicator is AAPL. If it keeps going, that means investors have confidence on Apple's future. Sad but true. Blue chip companies are "boring."

Only time will tell. Apple won’t go down in flames like Meta is.

But it will start to decline eventually if products are overpriced and boring.

iPhone 14 was the first iPhone that actually made me starting to consider moving to pixel even though it was important part of my career and baby.

I am sure not going to get the new MacBook Pro (14/16). It’s just ugly and boring.

iOS is getting too bloated with worse and worse HMI structure. Buggy too.

 

[I7guy]

Maybe that's true but there is an obvious and growing perception that they are churning out the same boring products year after year.

Tell this to the people who are buying products and services in enough volume to create record breaking quarterly revenue figures.

 

[Krispykrme]

Looking back at IOS history.

Iphone 14/14 pro had 3 major bug fixes within 30 days of release. 4 within 60 days if you count 16.1.1.

When has this ever happened? The answer is none.

 

[ian87w]

In who's mind? Warren Buffett?

Nobody outside of investment circles cares about the share price.

Like it or not, the life of a publicly traded company lies mostly in how investors' willingness to put money into it (showing confidence on the company's future and ROI). You can make great products as much as you want, but won't matter if you are not showing profit/confidence to investors.

If you want Apple to stick around in the long run to keep supporting your lovely ecosystem, you better care about the share price.

 

[Krispykrme]

Like it or not, the life of a publicly traded company lies mostly in how investors' willingness to put money into it (showing confidence on the company's future and ROI). You can make great products as much as you want, but won't matter if you are not showing profit/confidence to investors.

If you want Apple to stick around in the long run to keep supporting your lovely ecosystem, you better care about the share price.

Share price is based on what?

Product that sells.

Not uninspiring design, buggy software.

Lastly- does apple really need investors?

Come on. $200B plus in cash and investment.

Pure none sense.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

Here's a man from Next explaining what is happening

Tim Cook is killing Apple. It’s just churning out junk right now.

 

[Wolfpup]

Not just costs. Since Ive left we got practical designs again. All the form over function designs Ive made that crippled so many products finally got reversed and they're now better than ever (except the mouse. For some reason they haven't reverted that one yet.)

Plus we're getting cheaper machines as a result. Hope we get some more cheaper Macs because of this, and maybe a monitor that isn't absurdly overpriced lmao.

Yeah, Ives stuff was pretty, but soooo much of it was bad design.

I hope stuff improves.

Just in terms of looks, I think they’re better now than ever, though I don’t know if reliable has improved or not.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Tim Cook is killing Apple. It’s just churning out junk right now.

I've lost so much confidence in their hardware, particularly the laptops.

All of the 'touchbar era' machine I owned, four of them, needed a warranty repair. Some of them had multiple issues and the M1 Macbook Air that i curently own has had a port fail after 4 months.

I've got a Mac Mini M1 that is ok, bluetooth issues aside, but the only thing i can put it down to is that they are cheaping out on the components used.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

I've lost so much confidence in their hardware, particularly the laptops.

All of the 'touchbar era' machine I owned, four of them, needed a warranty repair. Some of them had multiple issues and the M1 Macbook Air that i curently own has had a port fail after 4 months.

I've got a Mac Mini M1 that is ok, bluetooth issues aside, but the only thing i can put it down to is that they are cheaping out on the components used.

Cheaping out on components whilst charging ridiculous prices is what’s most annoying.

The iPhone 14 Pro Max even at 1TB is nowhere near worth £1749 they are charging.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

@I7guy,

Yes its can be difficult discussions on the net.

More so with people just for the sake of face state that would really like a toaster into a fridge because it would take less space in the counter. While not long ago was probably arguing how bad Microsoft approach to slates was because it was as converting a toaster into a fridge or vice versa.

 

[Abazigal]

@I7guy,

Yes its can be difficult discussions on the net.

More so with people just for the sake of face state that would really like a toaster into a fridge because it would take less space in the counter. While not long ago was probably arguing how bad Microsoft approach to slates was because it was as converting a toaster into a fridge or vice versa.

My issue with convertibles are the following:

1) The thin form factor typically means heavier thermal throttling than usual, and windows OEMS are stuck with Intel processors. That was my exact experience with the HP Elite x2 laptop I was using at work just last year. Performance was poor (pretty much sufficed for running office and little else), throttled noticeably when not plugged in to an external power source, and because the screen was right on top of the processor, many of my colleagues had screen burnout problems after excessive use of zoom (which basically cooked the device).

Apple at least had the Ax series processors with the iPad, and now the M1 / M2 chips, which offer great sustained performance coupled with long battery life that no intel processor can currently hope to match.

2) The kickstand and detachable keyboard just takes up too much space on a table, and isn't stable for use on the laptop. That was my experience with the Logitech combo touch keyboard for my iPad Pro as well (bought it, and returned it in disgust a week later). I don't expect Apple's implementation to make any difference.

3) Windows just isn't a good tablet experience, and this is further compounded by the death of apps that are optimised for a touchscreen. Ironically, it's the opposite with the iPad. Great tablet experience, okay to poor laptop experience depending on your needs.

4) Walking around with it was annoying. You can't support it via the keyboard the same way you would a normal laptop (or even an iPad mounted to a smart / Magic Keyboard). Instead, you have to cradle it like a baby, and it's just awkward. It's basically a laptop with a broken hinge.

I feel the difference is this - Microsoft was trying to make a laptop more like a tablet, and failed miserably. The surface pro concept simply isn't resonating with consumers, outside of a niche user group of users.

In contrast, Apple was trying to give the iPad more laptop-like capabilities, and I feel they are making more progress in this area.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

My issue with convertibles are the following:

1) The thin form factor typically means heavier thermal throttling than usual, and windows OEMS are stuck with Intel processors. That was my exact experience with the HP Elite x2 laptop I was using at work just last year. Performance was poor (pretty much sufficed for running office and little else), throttled noticeably when not plugged in to an external power source, and because the screen was right on top of the processor, many of my colleagues had screen burnout problems after excessive use of zoom (which basically cooked the device).

Apple at least had the Ax series processors with the iPad, and now the M1 / M2 chips, which offer great sustained performance coupled with long battery life that no intel processor can currently hope to match.

2) The kickstand and detachable keyboard just takes up too much space on a table, and isn't stable for use on the laptop. That was my experience with the Logitech combo touch keyboard for my iPad Pro as well (bought it, and returned it in disgust a week later). I don't expect Apple's implementation to make any difference.

3) Windows just isn't a good tablet experience, and this is further compounded by the death of apps that are optimised for a touchscreen. Ironically, it's the opposite with the iPad. Great tablet experience, okay to poor laptop experience depending on your needs.

4) Walking around with it was annoying. You can't support it via the keyboard the same way you would a normal laptop (or even an iPad mounted to a smart / Magic Keyboard). Instead, you have to cradle it like a baby, and it's just awkward. It's basically a laptop with a broken hinge.

I feel the difference is this - Microsoft was trying to make a laptop more like a tablet, and failed miserably. The surface pro concept simply isn't resonating with consumers, outside of a niche user group of users.

In contrast, Apple was trying to give the iPad more laptop-like capabilities, and I feel they are making more progress in this area.

They really aren't. iPad OS is just a phone OS on a bigger screen and the multitasking features are a disaster

 

[Abazigal]

They really aren't. iPad OS is just a phone OS on a bigger screen and the multitasking features are a disaster

And ironically, that’s precisely what I love about working on my iPad. That it runs iOS and not macOS.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

In contrast, Apple was trying to give the iPad more laptop-like capabilities, and I feel they are making more progress in this area.

I would argue that the iPad OS is doing less to offer a laptop-like experience when needed than Windows 11 to offer a tablet like experience ... whilst being buggier doing so. Yet both are today convertibles.

4) Walking around with it was annoying. You can't support it via the keyboard the same way you would a normal laptop (or even an iPad mounted to a smart / Magic Keyboard). Instead, you have to cradle it like a baby, and it's just awkward. It's basically a laptop with a broken hinge.

Yes same thing can be said in the context of the magic keyboards. I have one in a drawer somewhere. So both suffer from the same kind of hassle yet coming from different contexts.

3) Windows just isn't a good tablet experience, and this is further compounded by the death of apps that are optimised for a touchscreen. Ironically, it's the opposite with the iPad. Great tablet experience, okay to poor laptop experience depending on your needs.

Humm. One could say ok to poor tablet experience with Windows and ok to poor laptop experience with the iPads. All depends on your needs as always. Both are attempting conversions.

2) The kickstand and detachable keyboard just takes up too much space on a table, and isn't stable for use on the laptop. That was my experience with the Logitech combo touch keyboard for my iPad Pro as well (bought it, and returned it in disgust a week later). I don't expect Apple's implementation to make any difference.

Have had a hard look at the new Magic Keyboard for the iPad? They look like carbon copies of the MS surface keyboards. It even come with a kick stand.

It looks like I like Microsoft approach ... I don't. Have used a Surface Pro for a year ... it did not work for me.

Yet I was until last year a great believer of tablets to replace traditional laptops with great hopes that the iPad Pro would do it. No longer. The turning point was when got an MBP M1 Pro. I realised what I enjoyed the most on the iPads was actually the snappiness, noiseless and mostly fresh to the touch environment ... all benefits of the A processors ... now the Ms. Once macOS got that benefit, my iPad Pro 12.9" as well as the Magic Keyboard were put aside even in the couch. Now I don't care anymore if tablets ever replace laptops ...

I'm fine for it to be just great laptops or desktop companions. Would say that are great for that ... but don't need an iPad Pro for the matter. For the purpose de regular iPads are fine, an extension to the laptop or desktop the better ... that is what I think at the moment.

I'm trying hard to find a regular place for Stage Manager in my usage of macOS, it's always on. But to be honest don't think is that good of an approach on the macOS ... It becomes even worst and worst as screen size increase. In this context I believe if the objective was to improve windows management on macOS there were plenty of things way more effective they could have done ... The all thing kind of makes me feel that it was orchestrated to benefit the iPad inabilities, make it look better than they are for the purpose, by bogging down actual macOS capabilities. Gladly it can be easily disabled. Still it looks like a manipulative orchestration around users perception to favor the worst iPad experience on a desk ... its crazy!

Pair all this with the rising Apple prices in the EU, iPhones starting at 1K and an iPad Pro with a decent storage capacity closing to the 2K most probably my next iPad, if there is one, will probably be the regular iPad. May my iPad Pro 12.9" with 512 SSD from 2020 live long and prosper. But the future does not look rosy, will see the prices of the MBP M3 and the M2 to M3 Macs ... Not that hopeful. As I'm invested in an HomeKit home I already started looking for options outside the ecossystem ... it may well be the case in a couple of year I can no longer afford Apple rising prices ... even though I have almost 20k invested in Apple tech in my family aggregate ... from multiple iPads, Apple Watches, MacBook Pro's, iMac, Apple TVs and iPhones ... oh and HomePods ... with the new prices would be probably valued and 35k.

If that comes, it's not me who is starting to phantom the possibility of abandoning the ecosystem ... it's Apple that abandoned me. Rising prices and uneventful features updates ... will probable leave me with little options but doing this. You see, if Apple has reasons to focus on costs with its billions on the bank and a trillion valuations ... more reason have most of their customer to do the same, in particular me. Maybe fire Apple? Something unthinkable to me 10 years ago ... when I actually gladly felt I wanted to buy more Apple. Today there is a bitter taste to it thanks to TC.

Will see.

PS: I really love to use my MBP and the iPhone. The rest ... it had better days ... greater hopes. Maybe it's time to revise my bets on those other things even though it reduces the value of the first in many ways. The other options are starting to look 10% worst, really relevant difference on a daily basis, yet 50% cheaper ... also really relevant in times where cost reduction is key to maximize the return.

 

[noSpeed]

The charging port on the underside of a device you charge once monthly is not the problem with the magic mouse. The ergonomics of the overly flat and narrow device are.

Why people continue to harp on this baffles me...

I actually don't have a problem with the shape. When I need to use the thing, and it needs to be charged is an issue. Hence the continued harping

 

[ian87w]

Seems obvious.
Just look at all current Apple lineup. The focus is using old designs for entry level, using same basic design for the rest for saving cost in tooling and production, and cut corners to push people to upgrade.

Some sad examples: The M2 Macbook Air, where the "passive cooling" was practically non-existent (not even a heatsink), and the 256GB single chip SSD for the base model. Then we have the new iPad 10, where it uses USB2.0 speed and Apple Pencil 1 support. Then the iPhone SE, using basically a 5 year-old design, and the iPhone 12 through 14 using basically the same shell with different colors.

Truly the ideal company run by MBAs, maximize profits and minimize costs.

 

[Abazigal]

Maybe that's true but there is an obvious and growing perception that they are churning out the same boring products year after year.

And what if they are doing this because that's what the customer wants and appreciates - continuous iteration and refinement in a familiar form factor that they know works?

The truth of the matter is that people simply aren't upgrading their products every year (or even every other year), so it seems wasteful to keep churning out new product designs ever so often.

From the outside at least, Apple seems to know what they are doing.

Except maybe Stage Manager. In hindsight, Apple probably should have just ignored all the loud voices here calling for said feature to come to the older iPads. Not only did it turn out to be a pretty poor user experience anyways, it likely diverted crucial engineering resources away from properly optimising it for the M1 iPads, which should have been their top priority to begin with.

When will Apple learn to not listen to feedback and suggestions from random posters on online forums?

 

[ian87w]

And what if they are doing this because that's what the customer wants and appreciates - continuous iteration and refinement in a familiar form factor that they know works?

The truth of the matter is that people simply aren't upgrading their products every year (or even every other year), so it seems wasteful to keep churning out new product designs ever so often.

From the outside at least, Apple seems to know what they are doing.

Except maybe Stage Manager. In hindsight, Apple probably should have just ignored all the loud voices here calling for said feature to come to the older iPads. Not only did it turn out to be a pretty poor user experience anyways, it likely diverted crucial engineering resources away from properly optimising it for the M1 iPads, which should have been their top priority to begin with.

When will Apple learn to not listen to feedback and suggestions from random posters on online forums?

The stage manager fiasco thing imo is purely Apple's marketing fail.
Remember when Apple first introduced side-by-side/split view. It was only for the iPad Air 2 I believe. But Apple introduced it gracefully during the keynote. Apple didn't say any word about spec requirement etc. Beautiful marketing, and nobody said anything.

Come stage manager, and Apple had to explicitly say that it requires xyz that is only available on the M1 iPad. Of course, people would scrutinize that, and questioned Apple, and Apple keep saying how "lacking" their older iPads are instead of focusing on how great their newer ones are. Really poor choice of marketing. And people called the bluff.

 

[Krispykrme]

And what if they are doing this because that's what the customer wants and appreciates - continuous iteration and refinement in a familiar form factor that they know works?

The truth of the matter is that people simply aren't upgrading their products every year (or even every other year), so it seems wasteful to keep churning out new product designs ever so often.

From the outside at least, Apple seems to know what they are doing.

Except maybe Stage Manager. In hindsight, Apple probably should have just ignored all the loud voices here calling for said feature to come to the older iPads. Not only did it turn out to be a pretty poor user experience anyways, it likely diverted crucial engineering resources away from properly optimising it for the M1 iPads, which should have been their top priority to begin with.

When will Apple learn to not listen to feedback and suggestions from random posters on online forums?

Apple has a minimum of 2 year cycle on product design.

While apple will continue to upgrade the MLB inside the product or make smaller modification. The chassis (or in your case design). Doesn't really change for 2 years.


Your comment is incorrect.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

They really aren't. iPad OS is just a phone OS on a bigger screen and the multitasking features are a disaster

They need to stop holding back and just put MacOS on the iPad. They designed the Magic Keyboard with the trackpad already.

Obviously the current greedy Apple won’t do that because it would kill a big chunk of their MacBook sales because iPads are a lot cheaper.

 

[ian87w]

They need to stop holding back and just put MacOS on the iPad. They designed the Magic Keyboard with the trackpad already.

Obviously the current greedy Apple won’t do that because it would kill a big chunk of their MacBook sales because iPads are a lot cheaper.

Putting macOS on the iPad is not beneficial for Apple, and it will cost a lot of money and time.

Greedy Apple prefers to just sell people more expensive products with expensive accessories. Thus the expensive keyboards.