Apple's Product Design Team Reportedly Focused More on Costs in Recent Years

[Abazigal]

Again- stay on topic.

The original topic was about innovation and product design.

That was main area of discussion here.

You and i7 were the wrong who was making wrong assumptions and argument.

Without Jobs foundation and vision. There is no apple.

That was main point of discussion here. You are the wrong jumping all over the place.

Focus on the topic.

I already addressed it in my initial post - that Tim Cook is not a product person, and that in no way minimises his contributions during his time at Apple. Which is, that he doubled down on the iPhone, expanded its install base and went on to make the ecosystem even stickier.

He is also great with the supply chain, and what use is Apple innovation if they can’t make enough products to sell?

I don’t see why people are so stingy in giving credit to people other than Steve Jobs where credit is due.

 

[I7guy]

You are the one ask for proof and we’re proven wrong. I actually saw the mock-up of iPhone 6 back in mid 2010 at the morgue. It was first time with many shade of rose gold.

Again- you don’t have a clue and have already been proven wrong.

You are the one throwing heresay despite apple own testimony to CA district attorney.

All Apple product up to the time I left in 2012 always start with an ID mock up. Apple is a unique company in its design where form/shape was determined a lot earlier than anything else.

PD job was simply find a way to fit the platform into already pre-determined space. That is what was difficult with design. Because you can’t change the ID.

The point was Steve was the one green lighted the phablet. Ain’t cook. Period.

You: Tim Cook did nothing in 12 year
Me: $2T
You: So what
Me: Thats an accomplishment. Tim put Apple on the map with the iphone 6.
You: Steve Jobs developed the iphone 6
Me: Citation
You: Some article with a vague reference
Me: That says nothing
You: Another article says something was developed 4 years ago
Me: That proves nothing except a 4 year old reference which could mean anything from a pencil drawing to phone that was in beta format. (Well it really couldn't be due to the chips)
You: You're proven wrong.
Me: Don't thing proof means what you think.

Just stop. You are making up things which you have zero clue.

You don't really know either or else this conversation would have gone a different way.

 

[Atomic1977]

I think  needs to bring back its colored logo. Back then is when  did its best stuff. Currently about the best thing going for it is the iPad 9 in the iPad department.

 

[Krispykrme]

I already addressed it in my initial post - that Tim Cook is not a product person, and that in no way minimises his contributions during his time at Apple. Which is, that he doubled down on the iPhone, expanded its install base and went on to make the ecosystem even stickier.

He is also great with the supply chain, and what use is Apple innovation if they can’t make enough products to sell?

I don’t see why people are so stingy in giving credit to people other than Steve Jobs where credit is due.

Again- look at the topic itself

We are talking about apple now focusing on cost instead of design.

Which part of it you don’t understand?

Tim has its contribution. But not on the product or ecosystem.

You want to be honest- let’s be brutally honest.

Tim was the dirty hand that made Apple growth possible.

Tim with his push on Foxconn and Chinese government- demolished at 100k population village in Chengdu so new factory can be put up in operation within 90 days for the IPad 2.
When the factory was starting manufacturing there were no guardrail on the stairs and road was still mud. The same factory blew up and killed 3 workers only months after opening because of aluminum dust build up.

Why don’t we also talk about truck load of 16 year old students who are forced to work in the factories under pretense of internship.

Stay in topic and let’s not glorified supply chain efficiency. If you look deeper, tons of skeleton underneath the rug.

 

[Krispykrme]

I already addressed it in my initial post - that Tim Cook is not a product person, and that in no way minimises his contributions during his time at Apple. Which is, that he doubled down on the iPhone, expanded its install base and went on to make the ecosystem even stickier.

He is also great with the supply chain, and what use is Apple innovation if they can’t make enough products to sell?

I don’t see why people are so stingy in giving credit to people other than Steve Jobs where credit is due.

You: Tim Cook did nothing in 12 year
Me: $2T
You: So what
Me: Thats an accomplishment. Tim put Apple on the map with the iphone 6.
You: Steve Jobs developed the iphone 6
Me: Citation
You: Some article with a vague reference
Me: That says nothing
You: Another article says something was developed 4 years ago
Me: That proves nothing except a 4 year old reference which could mean anything from a pencil drawing to phone that was in beta format. (Well it really couldn't be due to the chips)
You: You're proven wrong.
Me: Don't thing proof means what you think.

You don't really know either or else this conversation would have gone a different way.

富士康坦承煙台廠雇未滿16歲學生工 最小僅14歲

蘋果 (Apple) 產品代工大廠、鴻海旗下富士康周二 (16 日) 證實，在其中國大陸煙台工廠發現未滿 16 歲的學生實習工，年齡最小甚至只有 14 歲。承認勞工團體之前所提出指控。

tw.news.yahoo.com

I don’t see Eisenhower hire 14 year old student to work.

It’s common practice for 16 year old to work at factory under work study. That is Tim legacy.

å¯å£«åº·åæéèãéæ³å®æ實ç¿å¸çè¶æå·¥ä½

ç¾åèæå¬å¸çå°è³ä»£å·¥å» å¯å£«åº·å¬å¸ï¼è¢«å¤åªæç¼å¨æ²³åçéå·å» åï¼å±ç¨æ¸åå¸çéæ³å çãäºä»¶åå°å¤§é¸åå·¥çççæ¹è©ã

www.rfa.org

 

[I7guy]

富士康坦承煙台廠雇未滿16歲學生工 最小僅14歲

蘋果 (Apple) 產品代工大廠、鴻海旗下富士康周二 (16 日) 證實，在其中國大陸煙台工廠發現未滿 16 歲的學生實習工，年齡最小甚至只有 14 歲。承認勞工團體之前所提出指控。

tw.news.yahoo.com

I don’t see Eisenhower hire 14 year old student to work.

It’s common practice for 16 year old to work at factory under work study. That is Tim legacy.

å¯å£«åº·åæéèãéæ³å®æ實ç¿å¸çè¶æå·¥ä½

ç¾åèæå¬å¸çå°è³ä»£å·¥å» å¯å£«åº·å¬å¸ï¼è¢«å¤åªæç¼å¨æ²³åçéå·å» åï¼å±ç¨æ¸åå¸çéæ³å çãäºä»¶åå°å¤§é¸åå·¥çççæ¹è©ã

www.rfa.org

Not bothering with the links.
1. Apple has zero manufacturing facilities. If there is something going on the subcontractor is responsible. That was Steve legacy.

 

[Krispykrme]

Not bothering with the links.
1. Apple has zero manufacturing facilities. If there is something going on the subcontractor is responsible. That was Steve legacy.

Why continue to lie?

Cook was in charge of operation including supplier ethic.

Steve doesn’t care and don’t run operation

Also based on your logic- at the time of explosion Jobs was already on deathbed.

So it’s jobs fault for factory that blew up in 2011, child labor in 2012, 17, 2022.

But it’s Cook glory because he shipped iPhone 6 based on date.

Do you have problem with timeline and Logic?

Admit you are full of it and knows nothing t about apple.

 

[bluecoast]

Slightly off topic, but re some of the discussions above, I think that the china supply chain will end up being simultaneously one of Cook’s outstanding achievements and a baleful legacy.

Outstanding, as it obviously enabled Apple to sell hundreds of millions of products each year.

Baleful, in that as it’s rapidly becoming apparent that tensions with the USA and china are rising and Apple are horribly overexposed and reliant on china to produce its products (as are many western companies).

I don’t know enough about the working conditions in these factories to comment on that part.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

I was just wondering because the 4 -> 4S was all Jobs. The iphone 6 which broke the mold was Cook.

As I've said, don't expect the post iPhone population to understand how great tech product centric companies and their products are made. Which is natural, they don't understand tech in general ... just one part ... revenue and profit margins.

You gave us the perfect example. From 4 -> to 4S a revolutionary product was launched ... one that paved the way to digital assistants ... Siri. You are right ... Jobs was key. Right after ... iPhone 5 and 5S ... finger print reader ... again paving the way for a modern device authentication ... you are right ... Jobs was Key. SJ participated in the iPhone 6 design ... the percursor of larger iPhones, correcting his perception that people preferred smaller phones ... if he did not wanted it ... believe me it would not come at that time.

Compare it to Stage Manager and moving cameras around a trillion later is kind of ridiculous what Apple has achieved with the later ... oh don't forget the candy like Lock Screen ... lolol. Even the M1 was on Jobs charts ... this kind of transition planning takes a very long term vision ... its not like TC woke up one day and ...

Up until now I believe that it all is in SJ plans ... not Stage Manager or Lock Screen ... that is tactical but the overarching strategy. From now on don't think so. What I think is all TC is Apple Car and Apple VR. Will see how that goes. But I can't phantom top Marketing executives and design people leaving the company with amazing products coming ... so not holding my breath with VR ... The glasses ... would be interesting ... but I wonder if it's just vaporware or if it's mostly just glasses.

Now the romanticism about Jobs at least for me is not so much around this stuff ... this is not character but its brilliance. Some have it ... others don't ... nothing much to say about that. But when it comes to personal character has a product driven company making entrepreneur ... that is the subject of a romance. The $1 salary deal is intense for that matter ... that is something that very vert few investors would ever do at that time. Elon Musk is that kind of entrepreneur ... but with a twist ... its Musk has a far far larger ego ... so large that it stinks ... twitter did not need Musk ... it is Musk that wanted his own megafone .. and that makes it weaker leader ... it will interesting to see if that will make him fall hard has the **** hits the fan or will he self correct in time and become even stronger.

Cheers.

PS: It's easy to bet on money winning horses. Most don't understand what actually made it a winner ... as they create statistical abstractions to justify the wins ... when in fact without knowing the above ... its a dice.

 

[laptech]

Designers want to 'design' and yes there are many designers who are 'cost conscious' BUT when designers have penny pinchers constantly looking over their shoulders telling them they must cut costs here and there which ultimatly affects the design process, eventually deisgners will leave.

Due to Ive's long standing working relationship with Steve Jobs and Apple it was probably difficult for the penny pinchers to get their way but with I've gone they would be able to get their way with his replacement.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

@I7guy,

The famous TC quote:

"You can converge a toaster and a refrigerator," but it won't please anyone

Look at iPad OS ... Stage Manager and all. He is trying precisely that. An overly complex embarrassment. All because of the App Store control …

Now actually you can't and should not try to converge a toaster and a refrigerator ... makes no sense... but you can integrate a TV / Touch Screen on a Refrigerator and it's extremely useful ... it does not stop it from being a refrigerator yet opens its functions to improved functionality ... TVs are still TVs ... you don't get a better TVs in the living room ... got my drift?

Macs being the refrigerator and the iPad the toaster?

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Slightly off topic, but re some of the discussions above, I think that the china supply chain will end up being simultaneously one of Cook’s outstanding achievements and a baleful legacy.

Outstanding, as it obviously enabled Apple to sell hundreds of millions of products each year.

Baleful, in that as it’s rapidly becoming apparent that tensions with the USA and china are rising and Apple are horribly overexposed and reliant on china to produce its products (as are many western companies).

I don’t know enough about the working conditions in these factories to comment on that part.

Spot on. But don't think that was much Tim Cook could do before for that matter. Maybe new conditions and diversification opportunities appear ... One thing I totally believe TC ability is Operations to maximize profit ... is brilliant at that. Tech products ... not so much ... his strategy is actually more service centric than ever ... if TC brought innovation to Apple strategy ... is actually this one ... the all thing is becoming more service centric than ever ... devices a close first ... but there is a problem hitting it ... regulation ... tying after the successes of related products is a business practice frowned in certain pool of conditions that unfortunately or fortunately, depending how you see it ... Apple somewhat swims in it.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Here's a man from Next explaining what is happening

 

[UK-MacAddict]

Absolutely right. This has been happening for years under Tim Cook.

Think he needs to change his name to John Sculley.

 

[Krispykrme]

Slightly off topic, but re some of the discussions above, I think that the china supply chain will end up being simultaneously one of Cook’s outstanding achievements and a baleful legacy.

Outstanding, as it obviously enabled Apple to sell hundreds of millions of products each year.

Baleful, in that as it’s rapidly becoming apparent that tensions with the USA and china are rising and Apple are horribly overexposed and reliant on china to produce its products (as are many western companies).

I don’t know enough about the working conditions in these factories to comment on that part.

Without Tim doing the dirty work, apple wouldn't be where it is today. That is his legacy. From shareholder and apple bottom line, his contribution was on this front. It's something that needed to be done. Ethically? Hard to say.

There is always two side to the coin- it did solve China peasant problem. Provided tons of jobs. But there are tons of social cost too.
From explosion, suicides.. etc.

I often find it ironic that Apple would spend millions to have factory social audit. It could have simply give away May be like 5% margin to hire older and experienced worker instead of allowing Chinese government to force young student as volunteer intern to work at factory at 16.

The factory conditions aren't that bad compare to others. But more could have been done.

However, Tim was what apple needed to do the dirty grind.

 

[Krispykrme]

Designers want to 'design' and yes there are many designers who are 'cost conscious' BUT when designers have penny pinchers constantly looking over their shoulders telling them they must cut costs here and there which ultimatly affects the design process, eventually deisgners will leave.

Due to Ive's long standing working relationship with Steve Jobs and Apple it was probably difficult for the penny pinchers to get their way but with I've gone they would be able to get their way with his replacement.

I have hired several post Jobs era PD. This is exactly what have been happening.

It's all bean counter call first now.

Look at IPhone 14- it's a bean counter call to remove that sim slot. One less CNC step, increase yield, remove the sim carrier. That is a classic cost cutting move.

 

[I7guy]

Why continue to lie?

Cook was in charge of operation including supplier ethic.

The ceo is responsible for the company. Why continue to evade the truth?

Steve doesn’t care and don’t run operation

Also based on your logic- at the time of explosion Jobs was already on deathbed.

So it’s jobs fault for factory that blew up in 2011, child labor in 2012, 17, 2022.

But it’s Cook glory because he shipped iPhone 6 based on date.

Do you have problem with timeline and Logic?

Admit you are full of it and knows nothing t about apple.

Basically you have no real knowledge of the internal workings of the company. Can’t prove the iPhone 6 was designed in 2010 as you claim with the form factor s sold to the public. Dont seem to understand that the CEO is in charge of the company. Are arguing about stuff that occurred in the past, with none of this having to do with the thread topic.

 

[Krispykrme]

As I've said, don't expect the post iPhone population to understand how great tech product centric companies and their products are made. Which is natural, they don't understand tech in general ... just one part ... revenue and profit margins.

You gave us the perfect example. From 4 -> to 4S a revolutionary product was launched ... one that paved the way to digital assistants ... Siri. You are right ... Jobs was key. Right after ... iPhone 5 and 5S ... finger print reader ... again paving the way for a modern device authentication ... you are right ... Jobs was Key. SJ participated in the iPhone 6 design ... the percursor of larger iPhones, correcting his perception that people preferred smaller phones ... if he did not wanted it ... believe me it would not come at that time.

Compare it to Stage Manager a trillion later is kind of ridiculous what Apple has achieved with the later ... oh don't forget the candy like Lock Screen ... lolol. Even the M1 was on Jobs charts ... this kind of transition planning takes a very long term vision ... its not like TC woke up one day and ...

Up until now I believe that it all is in SJ plans ... not Stage Manager or Lock Screen ... that is tactical but the overarching strategy. From now on don't think so. What I think is all TC is Apple Car and Apple VR. Will see how that goes. But I can't phantom top Marketing executives and design people leaving the company with amazing products coming ... so not holding my breath with VR ... The glasses ... would be interesting ... but I wonder if it's just vaporware or if it's mostly just glasses.

Now the romanticism about Jobs at least for me is not so much around this stuff ... this is not character but its brilliance. Some have it ... others don't ... nothing much to say about that. But when it comes to personal character has a product driven company making entrepreneur ... that is the subject of a romance. The $1 salary deal is intense for that matter ... that is something that very vert few investors would ever do at that time. Elon Musk is that kind of entrepreneur ... but with a twist ... its Musk has a far far larger ego ... so large that it stinks ... twitter did not need Musk ... it is Musk that wanted his own megafone .. and that makes it weaker leader ... it will interesting to see if that will make him fall hard has the **** hits the fan or will he self correct in time and become even stronger.

Cheers.

PS: It's easy to bet on money winning horses. Most don't understand what actually made it a winner ... as they create statistical abstractions to justify the wins ... when in fact without knowing the above ... its a dice.

AR/VR is first thing that Tim is launching. Vaporware? Probably not. But another billion product- doubt that.

Move to ARM was 1years in the making. The industry has already planted seeds to move to all self design silicon.

 

[I7guy]

@I7guy,

The famous TC quote:

"You can converge a toaster and a refrigerator," but it won't please anyone

Look at iPad OS ... Stage Manager and all. He is trying precisely that. An overly complex embarrassment. All because of the App Store control …

Now actually you can't and should not try to converge a toaster and a refrigerator ... makes no sense... but you can integrate a TV / Touch Screen on a Refrigerator and it's extremely useful ... it does not stop it from being a refrigerator yet opens its functions to improved functionality ... TVs are still TVs ... you don't get a better TVs in the living room ... got my drift?

Macs being the refrigerator and the iPad the toaster?

I would actually like it if my toaster was jn my refrigerator. One less thing on the counter. What’s the problem with stage manager, apple doesn’t get everything right 100% but whatever criticisms, justified or not are being leveled at it, will be ironed out. I haven’t yet tried it on my M1 iPad. But the thought of multitasking on an iPad appeals to me.

Here's a man from Next explaining what is happening

Better grab these memes while you can, they are being taken off the internet.

 

[Krispykrme]

The ceo is responsible for the company. Why continue to evade the truth?

Basically you have no real knowledge of the internal workings of the company. Can’t prove the iPhone 6 was designed in 2010 as you claim with the form factor s sold to the public. Dont seem to understand that the CEO is in charge of the company. Are arguing about stuff that occurred in the past, with none of this having to do with the thread topic.

Again- answer your logic

How is Steve Jobs fault for factory blowing up in 2011, and child labor issues in 2012, 17, and 2022.

Per your logic- Tim Cook is the CEO at the time. So he is the one ultimately responsible for those death and questionable ethics right?

Answer that!

As far as iPhone 6 goes- it’s testimony by Apple appointed employee to CA district attorney. So are you staying that Tim Cook as CEO allowed a company employee to knowingly perjure Apple?

 

[I7guy]

Again- answer your logic

How is Steve Jobs fault for factory blowing up in 2011, and child labor issues in 2012, 17, and 2022.

Per your logic- Tim Cook is the CEO at the time.

Answer that!

You criticise Tim Cook up and down and aggrandize Steve Jobs. The bias is evident.

As far as iPhone 6 goes- it’s testimony buy Apple appointed employee testimony to CA district attorney. So are you staying that Tim Cook as CEO allowed a company employee to knowingly perjure Apple?

Yes. And you still haven’t offered up any real proof other than third party here say.

 

[Krispykrme]

You criticise Tim Cook up and down and aggrandize Steve Jobs. The bias is evident.

Yes. And you still haven’t offered up any real proof other than third party here say.

Again- answer the question!

How difficult is that?
Who was the CEO at time of child labor issue and factory exploding?

Answer that!

That isn’t 3rd party. So are you also going to claim all public news and record are false?

Then why are you here in this 3rd party site?
Why are you in this thread? Isn’t this a 3rd party post?

Answer that question too!

I am amazed you are so smart that you are basically face slapping yourself with your own post.

Amazing just amazing.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

I would actually like it if my toaster was jn my refrigerator. One less thing on the counter.

When it comes with one less thing being a great thing ... I guess one could also put a kitchen sync in it ... why stop there ... why not a bread board .... brilliant product design acumen.

You demand proof from other while your comparisons used as proof of your point are dismantled with way more information.

You seam just to be taking the ... sidewalk with a whistle... after realising that your assessment and comparison 4->4S is flawed. If you disagree with something I think better points need to be made or at least recognise that other have some valid points sustaining their assessments.

Have fun doing it.

PS: Oh, I totally agree than in time everything can be ironed out ... tenths of thousands of dollars from my wallet later. Heck even MS may come up with a good tablet someday ... and Intel with system that irons the M1 ... who knows. That is not my point. My point was simply what I've wrote initial intervention ... Apple seams to be loosing the innovation mojo under TC ... mostly decision seam to be based on user feedback and App Store control ... but even then heck they haven't even fixed Siri in 10 years ... "Siri play also in the Kitchen ... ": "Sorry, can't do that right now" ... "Here is a random song" ... "Maybe one day I ll get it right almost every time ..." Grammys and Hollywood ... Trillions .. yum.

 

[I7guy]

When it comes with one less thing being a great thing ... I guess one could also put a kitchen sync in it ... why stop there ... why not a bread board .... brilliant product design acumen.

You demand proof from other while your comparisons used as proof of your point are dismantled with way more information.

My friend there is a context here you may have missed if you didn’t follow the thread.
-OP: Steve Jobs designed the iPhone 5s and iPhone 6.
-ME: Proof?
-OP: some article with vague references
-Me: that’s not proof that’s hear say
-OP: cook let employee lie?
-me: jobs designed the iPhone 6 as a tablet in 2010?
-OP: crickets

See the issue?

You seam just to be taking the ... sidewalk with a whistle... after realising that your assessment and comparison 4->4S is flawed.

It was spot on to comment.

If you disagree with something I think better points need to be made or at least recognise that other have some valid points sustaining their assessments.

That’s with everybody? No?

Have fun doing it.

PS: Oh, I totally agree than in time everything can be ironed out ... tenths of thousands of dollars from my wallet later. Heck even MS may come up with a good tablet someday ... and Intel with system that irons the M1 ... who knows. That is not my point. My point was simply what I've wrote initial intervention.

Discussing things kn the internet can be a tough job sometimes.

 

[ian87w]

Focus to keep costs down for Apple, not the users. Have to maximize profit over innovation, just like Apple in the 1990s

The difference is, Apple is now a trillion dollar company and has a really strong brand. Apple can literally do nothing and be profitable for years to come, assuming they are not throwing out money and tanking their stock like Meta is doing now.