Apple's Retail Store Staff Compensation Criticized

[tpr007]

Retail jobs aren't skilled ones so why bully apple into paying higher salaries?

If anything, Apple should simply create more jobs by using its wealth to employ more staff per store. I waited ages to buy an iPhone from them a few weeks ago, and saw 2 people walk out of the store frustrated, and empty handed, at having to wait so long for a member of staff.

 

[Thunderhawks]

Interesting to see who takes sides for whom.

Reality is they are paid well for their field and there must be a reason to give them more.

Simply stating "Apple can afford it" doesn't do it for me.

The personnel in the Apple store I visit every now and then has never impressed me with knowledge.

When a product has to be repaired (within Apple Care) they do an okay job, but then I can fix what they fix also and have done so with out of warranty items.
Doesn't make me a genius, just an informed consumer who hunts for the know how when needed.

They get theirs in repair manuals and bulletins.

When it comes to Apple products and software, MacRumors readers and long time Apple users are usually ahead of what they know.

When I bought my ipad the sales person wanted to talk to me about using Apple for business. After I told him that I was already doing that since 1984 he gave up.

He had not been born then.

Where the Apple retail clerks come in is when they encounter Apple newbies and need to explain features, models, store policies etc.

Don't know what percentage of consumers goes shopping totally uninformed.

While there is no need to call them monkeys, I can't see why they should be paid more just because they work for Apple.

A job is worth a certain amount of wages and if you want to earn more money you literally have to EARN it.

Apple's retail employees are fairly compensated and are better of than many retail employees in other companies.

And, if you don't see an opportunity for a real career in that field you have to decide to do what is best for you, regardless of whether you like the company you work for and its products.

Just can't follow the NYT mantra of "underpaid" Apple retail employees because Apple "has the money"

I bet they are not overpaying anybody in their business, just because they have it. (Actually they don't

 

[MacSignal]

If you want a better customer experience at the Apple Store, then you should be pleased that Apple is offering better pay to its retail employees. It is a positive for Apple customers as well as for Apple retail employees.

 

[KnightWRX]

If you want a better customer experience at the Apple Store, then you should be pleased that Apple is offering better pay to its retail employees. It is a positive for Apple customers as well as for Apple retail employees.

In the end, it's a retail job. It's not some kind of career or high risk/high skill job. It's just some run of the mill, part time for student kinda work. It's the electronics equivalent of flipping burgers.

I don't get what's the story here. Walmart or Bestbuy don't even pay as well, make tons of cash too, so why even talk about Apple ?

If you want to make decent cash by working for Apple, work corporate, not retail.

 

[mully1121]

I work in a retail position for a company that is fairly successful. We get full medical/dental/vision, 401k and stock options. However we start at minimum wage and on the retail side of things our wages top out at $14/hr (and it takes years to get to that point.

I'm very knowledgeable about our products and provide excellent customer service. I deal with crappy customers everyday and do my best to make them happy in addition to working a fairly physically demanding job. Now, my company's current success is due in part to low-paid workers like me. Would I like to be paid more? Sure, who wouldn't? However, I realize that I work in retail and while I do have a degree the work I perform is unskilled. My company treats it employees better than a lot of retail companys (affordable health insurance for one). I'm never going to get rich doing this (and I don't plan to stay in retail forever, I'm still looking for a job in my field).

TL;DR: Apple treats their employees a heckuva lot better pay and benefit wise than most retail companies. Could they do better? Yes, every company could but retail wise it seems like a damn good place to work.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I work in a retail position for a company that is fairly successful. We get full medical/dental/vision, 401k and stock options. However we start at minimum wage and on the retail side of things our wages top out at $14/hr (and it takes years to get to that point.

I'm very knowledgeable about our products and provide excellent customer service. I deal with crappy customers everyday and do my best to make them happy in addition to working a fairly physically demanding job. Now, my company's current success is due in part to low-paid workers like me. Would I like to be paid more? Sure, who wouldn't? However, I realize that I work in retail and while I do have a degree the work I perform is unskilled. My company treats it employees better than a lot of retail companys (affordable health insurance for one). I'm never going to get rich doing this (and I don't plan to stay in retail forever, I'm still looking for a job in my field).

The point I take away from a story like yours is that a college-educated person such as yourself should already be on your chosen career path, not working at an hourly job in retail. The issue is, even if you do manage to eventually find a job in your field of training, you'll be that many years behind the curve in your career in that field. This is a bigger problem than most people realize. It will have a significant, negative impact on your lifetime earning capacity. The other force at work in the service economy is the number of people formerly working in higher-paying jobs in their fields who have lost those jobs and had to settle for hourly work in service. These are the downward mobility forces at work in our economy today. This has been going on for such a long time now that many people probably can't even remember when it was any different. But it was.

 

[mully1121]

The point I take away from a story like yours is that a college-educated person such as yourself should already be on your chosen career path, not working at an hourly job in retail. The issue is, even if you do manage to eventually find a job in your field of training, you'll be that many years behind the curve in your career in that field. This is a bigger problem than most people realize. It will have a significant, negative impact on your lifetime earning capacity. The other force at work in the service economy is the number of people formerly working in higher-paying jobs in their fields who have lost those jobs and had to settle for hourly work in service. These are the downward mobility forces at work in our economy today. This has been going on for such a long time now that many people probably can't even remember when it was any different. But it was.

Yeah, everything you said I am completely aware of. Not only do I know it because I am an intelligent person but every single freaking person I know feels the need to tell me this. This is not a discussion about my life circumstances, this is a dicussion about Apple.

 

[MacNewsFix]

I worked there from 2004 to late 2009. Just shy of 5 years. ......

Again, I support Apple in paying whatever they want to pay. I wasn't forced to work there. I just think the company would do better in retail if they rewarded their seasoned employees with more incentives and higher pay - this would benefit customers most of all - as people with the most training and knowledge were there to cross train others and help customers make the best decisions within their budget. When you don't have an incentive to keep your seasoned best, they leave, and you keep on the hamster treadmill, IMO.

Wow! Thanks again for sharing. An incredible look at what goes on behind the scenes.

That is the problem with supply-and-demand in the workplace. I've read that some Apple Stores have more applicants per position than applicants to some of the most competitive collegiate programs! However, training employees costs time and money. If the environment gets so bad as to cause frequent turnover, that will motivate Apple to increase the incentives for retention, no matter how many people they have clamoring to work at their stores. I think the recent raises are a good first step. If the staff is not kept at least somewhat happy, it will begin to show and directly impact sales (just as it did when the stores reportedly didn't focus on finding sales associates with excellent people skills - more on that next).

I've read here and there over the years to changes somewhat similar to those you mentioned. One example is that, initially, the hirings were focused on hiring people with computer knowledge and less on experience with the public; that certainly mirrors my own experiences. I actually stopped going to the stores and referring people there, because I was not impressed with the demeanor of some staff. After a year or two, I found my way back into the stores and found a dramatic difference: the sales associates were pleasant and knew how to balance being proactive without being obtrusive. I subsequently came across articles mentioning reports of a shift in what was being looked for in new hires and scouts actively pursuing top associates from other retailers. Also, in fairness to Apple, the stores are constantly having to adjust to the company's popularity growing at a breakneck pace (same store sales were up 43% in Feb '12).

It sounds like Apple lost a good employee. Again, the best in your new endeavors.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Yeah, everything you said I am completely aware of. Not only do I know it because I am an intelligent person but every single freaking person I know feels the need to tell me this. This is not a discussion about my life circumstances, this is a dicussion about Apple.

The mistake you make here is to think this is all about you. It's about millions of people, all in the same leaky boat, and more of them getting on board every day. You may be an intelligent person who understands the situation clearly, but if you read the comments in this thread you will find dozens who either do not understand it, or believe the situation is precisely the way it ought to be. Those are the people who you should be arguing with, not me.

 

[einmusiker]

The mistake you make here is to think this is all about you. It's about millions of people, all in the same leaky boat, and more of them getting on board every day. You may be an intelligent person who understands the situation clearly, but if you read the comments in this thread you will find dozens who either do not understand it, or believe the situation is precisely the way it ought to be. Those are the people who you should be arguing with, not me.

Exactly. This country has been spawning fascists for the past few decades and the insane ideologies that exist these days are frightening.

http://thebeuhlerblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/early-warning-signs-of-fascism.html

 

[mully1121]

The mistake you make here is to think this is all about you. It's about millions of people, all in the same leaky boat, and more of them getting on board every day. You may be an intelligent person who understands the situation clearly, but if you read the comments in this thread you will find dozens who either do not understand it, or believe the situation is precisely the way it ought to be. Those are the people who you should be arguing with, not me.

Where did I indicate it was all about me? I was merely giving my opinion about Apple's compensation policy from the view of someone in the retail world. You turned it into a lecture on the economy's effect on college educated workers in the customer service/retail industry. What I'm having trouble seeing is the connection between the topic at hand and your reply to my post. My post basically said that Apple was doing better than most companies and your reply had nothing to do with that, it just read like a lecture on why I shouldn't even be in that position (and all the negative impact it will have).

 

[iMikeT]

Exactly. This country has been spawning fascists for the past few decades and the insane ideologies that exist these days are frightening.

Agreed. People here are too distracted and complacent and blindly take what they're given to even realize that these oligarchs are turning back the clock to the days of feudalism. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Roosevelt, and Eisenhower all must be making backflips in their graves.

 

[BoxerGT2.5]

Those countries have or had FASCIST governments that hijacked the terms socialism/communism, which is the crap that we were taught to fear here in the USA since WWII. I urge your to do some research on what REAL socialism is before you say another foolish thing on the internet.

Let me help you out, Socialism for dummies.

A few countries where elements of real socialism (non-Marxist) were adopted and has worked... Norway, Sweden, The Netherlands, Austria, France, Germany, The UK, Australia, Japan, Iceland, et al. These countries "took from those that have and gave to those who did not" and it worked out pretty damn well for the citizens of those countries thank you very much.

How many of these countries have you lived in for at least a year. The US is still the country more people seek to come to for a reason. Go look at how well socialism worked for Italy and Greece.

 

[movieator]

Wow. In perspective with servers' "tipped wage," this feels like a fortune.

 

[Konrad]

Oh, please stop with the anti-Americanism. If Apple was in Europe, it would be bankrupt because of the taxes and regulations imposed on it. Europe's entitlement economic policies are about to cause its entire currency to collapse. How is that working out for you?

How about we send another few hundred thousand of our soldiers over there to die for a 3rd time to save your continent from its self-destruction? How about we send billions of dollars over there to rebuild your continent again after you destroy it?

You know nothing absolutely nothing about the United States or the compassion of her people, so shut it. If you are so anti-American, stop buying products made by American companies.

Of course you don't know this, but you just translated an early 50s Stalin speech. If you refer to apple products, they are made in China. If you are willing to send billions of dollars, go right ahead. If you want to send your soldiers - no, nobody wants them here. Also, American soldiers don't want to be here unless they are on vacation. Big companies today don't go bankrupt regardless of their location, they are the global beneficiaries. You seem to be seriously detached from the state of the world. America is still a rather short experiment with little experience, so cocky is not such a good idea in the long run.

 

[iMikeT]

How many of these countries have you lived in for at least a year. The US is still the country more people seek to come to for a reason. Go look at how well socialism worked for Italy and Greece.

Actually, it worked very well there until the banks and oligarchs running the banks screwed Greece, Italy, and Spain.

I invite you to look at the much larger picture than watching Faux Noise.

 

[KnightWRX]

Actually, it worked very well there until the banks and oligarchs running the banks screwed Greece, Italy, and Spain.

I invite you to look at the much larger picture than watching Faux Noise.

Socialism and over spending have very little to do with each other really, but you won't convince that other poster.

 

[fitshaced]

Well, we know Apple will be secretly donating to Muttster's campaign! Last month Cook was in Boner's office begging to pay no taxes. Another filthy Republican corporation begging for WELFARE and want everything for FREE! The Corporations want good roads to move their products, want clean water for their plants, want an educated workforce, want a Fire & Police Department to protect their offices (since all the factories they moved to COMMUNIST CHINA (sworn enemy of freedom, religion, and Democracy)... Yet the Corporations don't want to pay any tax, don't want to pay workers a living wage... the Corporations want it all for free and WELFARE!

Well this is probably a discussion for another thread, but yes, this type of thing has to stop. If these filthy rich paid tax like the rest of us, the world would be swimming in money. I reality, all that has to happen is for the stupid roc to pay an extra 2% (or just 2% for those that pay none) and the world is fixed. Instead, the working class have to pay through the nose to get their countries back to normal.

It would take some balls for a country to impose such a tax on the rich for fear of them moving their business. But, a global decision to do this would mean they'd have no choice.

Apple play by the rules. So do the guys who pay no tax. But that's because they hold economies to ransom. They got so big we can't be without them. Too much unemployment or too much bad debt.

 

[chewes]

Where I work at we are all on commission and we aren't pushy at all. As a matter of fact, its against our selling policies. However, we do get paid very well for what we do.

So, if Apple were to implement an commission based pay they could set it up with strict selling rules that would prohibit sales persons from being greedy or pushy.

I am curious to why being a sales clerk would be silly as a career? You can make a killing if you are in the right position and right market.

Everyone has their own definition of "a killing."

 

[deftdrummer]

The single most important and non biased post on this thread is the very first one. This thread is garbage.

 

[DakotaGuy]

The amount of social Darwinism being espoused in this thread is sadly predicable. Some clearly need to acquaint themselves with the redistribution of the wages curve over the last 35 years. It is kind of depressing to hear so many people who are not only unaware of what has occurred over this period of time, but who apparantly accept and even celebrate the new order. All hail downward mobility.

I think many celebrate it because keeping wages low for Apple store employees help increase corporate profit. If corporate profit goes up it means three things... 1) Apple can continue to innovate new and exciting products for us. 2) Apple shareholders can increase their worth. 3) Corporate has the resources to pay high wages to the people that count like engineers and upper level management. If you don't pay enough you don't keep people like that around.

I don't work at an Apple Store so what they are paid doesn't bother me. I'm not a highly paid employee at my work either, but I get paid what I would consider a living wage. Then again, I couldn't do my job if I didn't have a college degree.

Have you ever read a thread on here when they discuss how many billions Apple made in a quarter? Oh yes there is a lot of celebration... I bet even ones working for those low wages at Apple Stores.

 

[fitshaced]

The single most important and non biased post on this thread is the very first one. This thread is garbage.

Stop sitting on the fence

 

[Konrad]

How many of these countries have you lived in for at least a year. The US is still the country more people seek to come to for a reason. Go look at how well socialism worked for Italy and Greece.

Yes, the uneducated from depressed nations flock the US today. Europeans go to the US to visit some national parks, have a steak, buy few things at half price. It is just average tourism and not all that popular anymore in view of much more interesting world destinations without having to be harrassed by ex burger flippers now with nazi uniforms looking for that illegal sandwich you brought from France. There are new places experiencing constructions boom like even Albania, which many chose over a visit to the same old NYC everyone already knows with an airport reminiscent of the third world banana republic surrounded by homeless uncared for begging retards. Pal, I never see LA 6th street skid row in Europe and I would much rather be poor in Tuscany or sit pennyless in Fira looking at the gods, than solicit at the hooter bar in Cleveland or hang in south central LA. Remind me, what are the reasons to go to the US today?

 

[IJ Reilly]

Where did I indicate it was all about me? I was merely giving my opinion about Apple's compensation policy from the view of someone in the retail world. You turned it into a lecture on the economy's effect on college educated workers in the customer service/retail industry. What I'm having trouble seeing is the connection between the topic at hand and your reply to my post. My post basically said that Apple was doing better than most companies and your reply had nothing to do with that, it just read like a lecture on why I shouldn't even be in that position (and all the negative impact it will have).

Your entire response was about you, what you know, and how you reacted to people talking about to you about what you know. So I thought it was perfectly appropriate to explain that I wasn't addressing these comments to you personally, my thoughts are about the problem of the service economy generally. This is what I have been commenting on since the start of this thread. In those comments I have also said that Apple is doing no worse than most and better than some in their treatment of their retail employees, but that their store employees are still working in dead-end service industry jobs, with poor pay and little hope for upward mobility.

Sorry if you took this to be a lecture. I explain all of this only because so many people (including plenty of the commenters in this thread) either do not understand or are perfectly happy with the shift in our economy from higher-paying to lower-paying jobs. I suppose they think general downward mobility is fine, so long as it doesn't happen to them personally. They either know not or care not about the larger picture. So as I said before, you should be arguing with them, not me.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I think many celebrate it because keeping wages low for Apple store employees help increase corporate profit. If corporate profit goes up it means three things... 1) Apple can continue to innovate new and exciting products for us. 2) Apple shareholders can increase their worth. 3) Corporate has the resources to pay high wages to the people that count like engineers and upper level management. If you don't pay enough you don't keep people like that around.

I don't work at an Apple Store so what they are paid doesn't bother me. I'm not a highly paid employee at my work either, but I get paid what I would consider a living wage. Then again, I couldn't do my job if I didn't have a college degree.

Have you ever read a thread on here when they discuss how many billions Apple made in a quarter? Oh yes there is a lot of celebration... I bet even ones working for those low wages at Apple Stores.

I am an AAPL stockholder and have been for the last 15 years. Owning that stock has given me plenty to celebrate. So trust that I understand the capitalism side of the argument. However, none of the money I've made on AAPL is ever going to make me happy about what I've seen happen in the nation's economy generally over the last 35 years, from high-paying jobs in manufacturing to low-pay jobs in service. I'm not going to be in denial over Apple's role in all of this. They have shipped all of their manufacturing overseas (yes, I know everyone has) and built a huge force of service employees at home. This is downward mobility in action.

What it comes down to in my mind is how hugely successful corporations like Apple distribute their success within the company. It is now distributed, radically, towards the top. Before the 1980s employees could compel their companies to share the wealth more equitably. They mechanism was called unions, and the process was collective bargaining. This was how the growing middle class was built after World War II. Seems to me that we as a nation have been persuaded by the corporations and the politicians who run interference for the corporations to revile unions and everything they represent, even when it's against our own interests. This to me is the real tragedy of the last 35 years. Even as compensation has slewed heavily towards to top, the people who've been hurt the most say "so what?"