Hard to detect that these young fixies with their tight trousers, smiling faces, and jibberish are so disgruntled.
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Apple's Retail Store Staff Compensation Criticized
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Generally I would agree with you, but we have thousands and thousands of happy customers a day. Based on our customer feedback that majority of the customers don't feel like their shopping experience has been compromised due to commission sales. Most of them have very happy with their shopping experience. We have been listening to our customers and adjusting the selling environment to ensure that we create happy customers and a relaxed experience.
So, I really don't see why Apple couldn't implement something similar. As I mentioned they can implement strict rules to ensure a happy and pleasant shopping experience for consumers. It seems everyone has this horrifying perception of commissioned sales and it shouldn't be like that. Yea you have your car salesmen that are extremely pushy but they don't set the example of how commissioned sales work.
I don't think my company is doing it right, I know we are doing it right because employees are happy and customers are happy. If we weren't doing it right we wouldn't have the numbers that we have.
TRUTH MODE ON
You could be Exhibit A for the accuracy of my initial statement.
I think will just leave the truth mode on.
Nowhere did i say that they SHOULD pay more, i said that they should not be exempt from criticism for not paying more. at half a million per employee, 5% is kind of low (yes even for unskilled retail).
Yea, but from a car salesman, I expect that he wants to sell me the worst junker for the price of the Rolls Royce Phantom. I know they use cheap tricks such as dropping pennies on the lot so people think it's their lucky day (I really have seen that) etc. I know that and the bargening begins. At Wal-Mart, the cashier asked me if I want to have insurance for $6 on my new PC game "Skyrim," I told her I bought a software copy which doesn't break even if the DVD burns up, she just looked at me as if I explained to her why DDR RAM can use 2 transfer packages per cycle compared to SDR RAM. But that is what I expect from an electronics store on commision. I believe the reason for not having that is so that even if the employee tells the customer that in case he needs to look at customization, he can finalize that at home online etc. because there is less real preasure to seal the deal or even upsale. You simply can use the time to talk about SDR vs DDR
Because for many people, capitalism is not an economic theory, or even a system of economics, it's a belief system. You offend the gods of capitalism whenever you point out where it is producing less than perfect results. According to the crypto-libertarian market mystics, this is simply an impossibility. To their thinking, markets only produce imperfect results when government gets involved with the economy. If this seems like a bizarre concept, that's because it is a bizarre concept. But the great thing about this theory is that it can never be proven incorrect, since government has always been and always will be involved with the economy. Since the conditions for testing the theory will never exist, it can continue to be expounded ad infinitum. It's a hermitically sealed ideology.
So when you say "should not be exempt from criticism for not paying more," you mean they should be criticized? Might be a nuance of difference there but you don't need much of an imagination to see the connection to criticism.
It is laughable to see that there is the danger from the Supreme Court to strike down the first attempt since the Civil War to have something like a general health care system and no one seems to really care but if someone makes a lot of money, people scream that everyone involved should get their share... If everyone talkes about you should get a share, maybe we should start paying back the Federal Debt. What's the per capita share? $50,444.69 right in this moment, I believe... start paying because we owe a part of that.
I've worked retail, but not at an Apple store. (And not in many years.) A good friend of mine is a manager at a local mall Apple Store. He can't talk about things corporate, and in courtesy we don't expect him to any more than he expects me to discuss my clients' business. But during the times we talk "shop" in general, from what I can glean, the Apple Store retail work experience is overall good for its worker demographic, far better than some, better than many, and not as good as some.
It's true that the pay is a bit low overall because they want to attract younger, less-skilled workers in terms of branding. The expectation is that those workers can serve as useful guideposts and customer traffic custodians, but they aren't expected to help a customer execute a will. They're just there to help a customer figure out which iPad configuration is best for them. It doesn't take a college graduate to work at that level. A more skilled worker who can command a higher salary in the market probably shouldn't be an Apple Retail Specialist. Honestly, if you're a 20-year-old who just dropped out of ASU as an undergrad and has yet to chart a career course, you could do a lot worse than working at Apple for a while. But if you're a 32-year-old husband and father with a CIS degree, even if you're the most valiant Apple evangelist out there, it really isn't a good job fit for you. And the pay scales reflect that.
Apple simply hasn't developed a business need for a highly skilled marketer with an MBA making $70k/year at its retail stores. The position just doesn't exist. It's not a greedy capitalism thing -- it's just functional necessity. You'd no more expect it than you'd expect a steel foundry to employ a woodcarving coordinator. The job just isn't relevant. Apple's retail business structure is designed to utilize young, chipper, not particularly skilled but socially pleasant young sales reps as its retail "face," backed up by reasonably tech-savvy geniuses solving the 90% most common issues that come up for peoples' computers and devices, and a management chain to coordinate it all. There's nothing wrong with that if you are able to accept the fact that this was the deal you signed up for. Many of these people quoted in these articles left when they "realized they had nowhere to go" or "realized advancement was so unlikely" -- in other words, when their unrealistic (but understandable) expectations finally came into conflict with Apple's retail business stucture.
If Apple's workers were so damned valuable as to be worth paying much, much more than they currently are, other companies would be offering them jobs at those rates. Is that happening? (crickets) No, it's not. And this is true even if you hate capitalism and think it's all greedy wall-street fat cats: After all, don't they want to make the most money possible? To do that, they need to employ the people who will produce those profits. It costs a certain amount to attract such employees. If Apple Retail Specialists were really worth that, Microsoft and the Gap and Paradise Bakery and everyone else on the block would be headhunting them and offering better pay. Corporations vote with their wallets just like any consumer. If anything, even more ruthlessly. Since that's not happening, it stands to reason that whatever Apple is paying its retail reps, it's sufficient to keep them there and continue to attract a net positive number of new ones. (shrug)
I'd love to see people earn more across the board -- I am a huge believer in seeing people rewarded when they execute a plan competently. But if you want to earn more money for doing that, you need to pick a plan with a higher degree of difficulty, that fewer people are capable of executing competently. By an astonishing coincidence, you will find that you will be paid more for doing so and delivering as promised.
It's true that the pay is a bit low overall because they want to attract younger, less-skilled workers in terms of branding. The expectation is that those workers can serve as useful guideposts and customer traffic custodians, but they aren't expected to help a customer execute a will. They're just there to help a customer figure out which iPad configuration is best for them. It doesn't take a college graduate to work at that level. A more skilled worker who can command a higher salary in the market probably shouldn't be an Apple Retail Specialist. Honestly, if you're a 20-year-old who just dropped out of ASU as an undergrad and has yet to chart a career course, you could do a lot worse than working at Apple for a while. But if you're a 32-year-old husband and father with a CIS degree, even if you're the most valiant Apple evangelist out there, it really isn't a good job fit for you. And the pay scales reflect that.
Apple simply hasn't developed a business need for a highly skilled marketer with an MBA making $70k/year at its retail stores. The position just doesn't exist. It's not a greedy capitalism thing -- it's just functional necessity. You'd no more expect it than you'd expect a steel foundry to employ a woodcarving coordinator. The job just isn't relevant. Apple's retail business structure is designed to utilize young, chipper, not particularly skilled but socially pleasant young sales reps as its retail "face," backed up by reasonably tech-savvy geniuses solving the 90% most common issues that come up for peoples' computers and devices, and a management chain to coordinate it all. There's nothing wrong with that if you are able to accept the fact that this was the deal you signed up for. Many of these people quoted in these articles left when they "realized they had nowhere to go" or "realized advancement was so unlikely" -- in other words, when their unrealistic (but understandable) expectations finally came into conflict with Apple's retail business stucture.
If Apple's workers were so damned valuable as to be worth paying much, much more than they currently are, other companies would be offering them jobs at those rates. Is that happening? (crickets) No, it's not. And this is true even if you hate capitalism and think it's all greedy wall-street fat cats: After all, don't they want to make the most money possible? To do that, they need to employ the people who will produce those profits. It costs a certain amount to attract such employees. If Apple Retail Specialists were really worth that, Microsoft and the Gap and Paradise Bakery and everyone else on the block would be headhunting them and offering better pay. Corporations vote with their wallets just like any consumer. If anything, even more ruthlessly. Since that's not happening, it stands to reason that whatever Apple is paying its retail reps, it's sufficient to keep them there and continue to attract a net positive number of new ones. (shrug)
I'd love to see people earn more across the board -- I am a huge believer in seeing people rewarded when they execute a plan competently. But if you want to earn more money for doing that, you need to pick a plan with a higher degree of difficulty, that fewer people are capable of executing competently. By an astonishing coincidence, you will find that you will be paid more for doing so and delivering as promised.
Sounds about right.
These are the people who enter an Apple store, including myself.
1. People who want to try out stuff. Blue shirts generally leave them alone, let the products sell themselves. They know that even if they don't buy, they will be back soon to buy.
2. People who already know they want to buy a computer, just not sure on which model. Blue shirts here don't have a hard sell, and because they aren't on commission, aren't going to push the 15" retina on everyone. They ask some questions, try to get them out the door with something, that's not that hard a job.
EDIT: and the good thing about selling apple computers is that ALL the machines sold at any time are capable of doing what most customers need them for, so you aren't going to be ending up with a disappointed customer if they leave with the cheapest Air or the base 13" BMP, for example. And because they were told the choices they had, the customer feels good about making the choice they did, sacrificing screen size for price, etc. And of course there is the 30-day return policy, should they decide they really wanted the more expensive product afterall...
3. People who already know they want to buy a computer/ipad/iphone and which one. Blue shirts basically ring them up like a grocer.
4. People who need accessories. Blue shirts here need to know what is available, answer sometimes a lot of questions, then ring them up. These are also high margin items, so I'm sure they are told to make sure customers leave with something even if it's not exactly what they came for. This is important because these shoppers are usually naive in that they think the Apple store prices on accessories are anything but a ripoff. Gold mine.
5. People who go directly to accessories that they know are priced correctly (like apple branded items, which cost the same everywhere), pick them out themselves, and hunt down a blue shirt to pay. Blue shirts don't spend much time on this.
6. People needing help/service. These people are vital, and it's why the employees who deal with them get paid the most and are most senior.
In other words, these aren't traveling salesman who need incentive to sell, nor or they greatly responsible for the amount they sell or the value of it. These aren't furniture store salesman who know that convincing a customer to buy today is vital because most won't come back. People came to the Apple store to look or to buy. The salesman is not going to be able to convince someone to buy who was just looking, and someone who is set on buying doesn't take much selling.
It's not a hard sales job. It may be tiring, but it's not hard.
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salary
Rather than criticize Apple's compensation for it's employees they should be criticizing Disney's pay. I worked 2 years in merchandise for Disney and made a ton of money for the company. I got paid slightly more than minimum wage. People assume that Disney World pays great because of the prices they charge to enter the parks and the prices they charge for food and merchandise. But one year I made $8,800 and the second year I made $7,400. And when I wound up in the hospital with a stroke they penalized me. Apple certainly treats its employees much better than Disney.
Rather than criticize Apple's compensation for it's employees they should be criticizing Disney's pay. I worked 2 years in merchandise for Disney and made a ton of money for the company. I got paid slightly more than minimum wage. People assume that Disney World pays great because of the prices they charge to enter the parks and the prices they charge for food and merchandise. But one year I made $8,800 and the second year I made $7,400. And when I wound up in the hospital with a stroke they penalized me. Apple certainly treats its employees much better than Disney.
Maybe this has already been answered, but what should a company do with its profits (other than paying its employees more)?
Lots of good stuff here.
And just a point on top of yours:
Maybe if Apple did have the highest retail pay they wouldn't be making so much money in the first place?
They have 30,000 retail employees. Every $35 a year more in salary is $1 million to the company. $1000 a year more? $30 million! $10,000? $300 million.
That's not chicken feed. Bumping to $20 an hour or whatever the NYT wants? $500 million - $1 billion.
And then there is the cost of not having so much turnover. Employees staying longer with higher pay. This will raise costs and slow down sales. Enthusiasm among employees will wane, despite the higher wages (ask the airlines how they like having career flight attendants working jobs that were designed to be 5 year positions like the Apple store. A hint, it's expensive and customer service sucks...)
Ultimately, what Apple has paid has gotten them where they are. They started to notice a churn rate higher than they would like, so they gave 20% raises to fight it. They have bean counters who know what impact 20% will have. And what impact 50% or 100% would have. 20% was answer. Let's see if they are right...
Expand and pay to the shareholders. It's called Capitalism. I give you X amountof $ so you can use your nifty idea to produce, you take a good salery if you are a good manager and invest into the expansion give me the rest.
The stockholders are absolutely creating value for Apple because they are providing capital and liquidity to allow Apple to invest into making new products. Value does not correlate to physical labor. That's the singular reason why successful companies go public: they want an influx of cash to allow them to continue their growth. Billions of dollars in capital is a lot more valuable and in a lot less supply than are retail workers, which is why the stockholders are compensated much more than retail workers.
What a silly thing to say. If I want info on products when I walk through the door, I want to speak with an intelligent, educated individual who has taken the time to learn all about the products and, in fact, at least can afford to own them. Sure, I do my own research before buying like most people here, and I probably will know at least as much about most products - but I still don't want to be talking to people who aren't confident enough to stand behind the product. That kind of confidence takes time and certainly deserves more than $25K per year.
Also, to people saying "they should just work somewhere else" or something along those lines - remember that your wage isn't really a choice you make if there are no other companies hiring. It's much, much easier said than done to find another job. In other words, just because these people applied to work for Apple doesn't mean it's not still an illusion of choice.
You are so right. Sometimes its a choice between maybe no work or apple retail, or any retail for that matter for some people. In those cases - there is simply nothing like "chose something else".
None of that is "skilled" labor. This is an actual term with a definition.
Nobody is suggesting that.
Hmmmm.... Steve Jobs was the single largest shareholder of Disney stock, so what are you trying to say here???
How DARE you criticize Steve Jobs on this web site...
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This is an idiotic statement. So if you bought in in 1984, yes you created value for apple. Not since then has any shareholder done so by virtue of being a shareholder (or are they sending you a bill for what you owe them based on the number of shares you own?).
In Cupertino, try living on $60/hour....
(And yes, there are about a dozen Apple stores within typical commuting distance of One Infinite Loop.)
Either you missed my sarcasm, or your wife has no devotion to teaching and only does it for the paycheck?
Tell me about.
Anyone who believes for the slightest second that Apple employees actually have to SELL Apple products and actually makes meaningful contributions to Apple's revenue is suffering from cognitive dissonance. No one needs serious education or training to be a retail salesperson. It isn't a skilled trade.
I think that the salary paid to the retail employes is fair, even before the up-to-25% increase that is in the works.
How many retailers with the same training requirement (basically none) actually pay a higher salary and include benefits?
I'm sorry to sound rude, but retailing at an apple store requires no specialized training, it's probably a great starter job for a young kid out of high school, at least better than wal-mart. (I'd actually be extremely happy that my daughter would get a temporary starter job in a solid company, apple or not when out of high school- I obviously would expect her to move on and get trained on her career choice. )
Just to put you in perspective here. A fellow in trauma surgery has done 4years of college, 4 yrs in medical school and 5 to 7 years in general surgery, he makes 57K a year for an 80 (yes 80) hour week, which is what we do. Come up with hourly wage for this individual: $13/hr. That's the highest pay that person has made in 7 years (you start at an equivalent of 10/hr), why did I do it? Because in America with hard work and training you can make big bucks later. Otherwise I would've stayed on my first job (making Xerox Copies - way less effort) being paid almost the same amount years ago.
Lastly, there is no role for the religious love to a brand when we talk about economics (yeah I'm talking to you, who thinks that apple should pay better because their employes love everything Mac or refer to Steve Jobs using only his first name like he was actually your friend or something). That is just hilarious.
How many retailers with the same training requirement (basically none) actually pay a higher salary and include benefits?
I'm sorry to sound rude, but retailing at an apple store requires no specialized training, it's probably a great starter job for a young kid out of high school, at least better than wal-mart. (I'd actually be extremely happy that my daughter would get a temporary starter job in a solid company, apple or not when out of high school- I obviously would expect her to move on and get trained on her career choice. )
Just to put you in perspective here. A fellow in trauma surgery has done 4years of college, 4 yrs in medical school and 5 to 7 years in general surgery, he makes 57K a year for an 80 (yes 80) hour week, which is what we do. Come up with hourly wage for this individual: $13/hr. That's the highest pay that person has made in 7 years (you start at an equivalent of 10/hr), why did I do it? Because in America with hard work and training you can make big bucks later. Otherwise I would've stayed on my first job (making Xerox Copies - way less effort) being paid almost the same amount years ago.
Lastly, there is no role for the religious love to a brand when we talk about economics (yeah I'm talking to you, who thinks that apple should pay better because their employes love everything Mac or refer to Steve Jobs using only his first name like he was actually your friend or something). That is just hilarious.