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It is a badge of honnor. That is why Tim gets paid as much as all the US retail staff put together.

As CEO he gets the same $1 a year that Steve got. And between CEO and COO he has likely done enough work at levels far above anyone in retail, to have earned the stock shares etc that he got. And yet he's refused to take the dividends etc being offered even when he could legally accept them.
 
I've worked retail, but not at an Apple store. (And not in many years.) A good friend of mine is a manager at a local mall Apple Store. He can't talk about things corporate, and in courtesy we don't expect him to any more than he expects me to discuss my clients' business. But during the times we talk "shop" in general, from what I can glean, the Apple Store retail work experience is overall good for its worker demographic, far better than some, better than many, and not as good as some.

It's true that the pay is a bit low overall because they want to attract younger, less-skilled workers in terms of branding. The expectation is that those workers can serve as useful guideposts and customer traffic custodians, but they aren't expected to help a customer execute a will. They're just there to help a customer figure out which iPad configuration is best for them. It doesn't take a college graduate to work at that level. A more skilled worker who can command a higher salary in the market probably shouldn't be an Apple Retail Specialist. Honestly, if you're a 20-year-old who just dropped out of ASU as an undergrad and has yet to chart a career course, you could do a lot worse than working at Apple for a while. But if you're a 32-year-old husband and father with a CIS degree, even if you're the most valiant Apple evangelist out there, it really isn't a good job fit for you. And the pay scales reflect that.

Apple simply hasn't developed a business need for a highly skilled marketer with an MBA making $70k/year at its retail stores. The position just doesn't exist. It's not a greedy capitalism thing -- it's just functional necessity. You'd no more expect it than you'd expect a steel foundry to employ a woodcarving coordinator. The job just isn't relevant. Apple's retail business structure is designed to utilize young, chipper, not particularly skilled but socially pleasant young sales reps as its retail "face," backed up by reasonably tech-savvy geniuses solving the 90% most common issues that come up for peoples' computers and devices, and a management chain to coordinate it all. There's nothing wrong with that if you are able to accept the fact that this was the deal you signed up for. Many of these people quoted in these articles left when they "realized they had nowhere to go" or "realized advancement was so unlikely" -- in other words, when their unrealistic (but understandable) expectations finally came into conflict with Apple's retail business stucture.

If Apple's workers were so damned valuable as to be worth paying much, much more than they currently are, other companies would be offering them jobs at those rates. Is that happening? (crickets) No, it's not. And this is true even if you hate capitalism and think it's all greedy wall-street fat cats: After all, don't they want to make the most money possible? To do that, they need to employ the people who will produce those profits. It costs a certain amount to attract such employees. If Apple Retail Specialists were really worth that, Microsoft and the Gap and Paradise Bakery and everyone else on the block would be headhunting them and offering better pay. Corporations vote with their wallets just like any consumer. If anything, even more ruthlessly. Since that's not happening, it stands to reason that whatever Apple is paying its retail reps, it's sufficient to keep them there and continue to attract a net positive number of new ones. (shrug)

I'd love to see people earn more across the board -- I am a huge believer in seeing people rewarded when they execute a plan competently. But if you want to earn more money for doing that, you need to pick a plan with a higher degree of difficulty, that fewer people are capable of executing competently. By an astonishing coincidence, you will find that you will be paid more for doing so and delivering as promised.

This.
 
Blah blah blah "just retail". What?! Just retail? What does that even mean? They still deserve the money.

Do they? Do the pants belted under their butts, layabouts that would rather chat about yesterdays ball game rather than acknowledge a customer, who don't even know that Mountain Lion is coming out next month and if I buy a computer today I get it for free deserve to make $20 a hour simply because Apple has billions of dollars in the bank. They do minimum work by showing up and ringing me up when I approach them so they have earned minimum pay.

Now the girl that walked up to me smiling, remembered my name for when I was in the store 6 weeks ago AND that I work in the film industry and "hey did you hear about the updates to Aperture. It now has that shared libraries you were saying you wish they had" and so on. Sure she might be working at an above minimum wage level and deserves more and she'll get it because that's the point of 'merit' increases.

The real pity is that despite retail being 'at will' and employers having the legal right to fire anyone they want for no reason required, they never do it. Maybe if they removed the chaff they would have more money to reward the wheat

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These rumours of pay rises are really almost unbelievable.

I appreciate that Apple is doing well, but 25%?! for RETAIL staff, who are already paid better than most of their peers at other retailers? It isn't like Apple Stores have a shortage of quality employees!

We really don't know the amount that is coming out to. And it was UP TO 25%. It's possible that the stores that got even close to that are due to state minimum wage changes or some other factor. if any stores actually did get close to it. for all we know it was 1 store out of the whole company that even had anyone with a raise that was even 20%.

Steve would never have allowed this.

Can we please ban this statement. No one here knows Steve to know what he would or wouldn't have done, would have liked or not. Not to mention the man is deal. What he would have allowed it moot. It's not his Apple anymore and he gave his blessing to Tim and company to do things their way not his. Which is, in fact, allowing everything folks have ever said he wouldn't have.

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The group of people who sing the praises of "trickle down" are the same ones most appalled at the thought of Apple retail sales getting some of that "trickle down". Interesting.

Who says they don't. They might get quite a bit but it's not in cash wages. Things like Apple paying more than they legally have to of health care costs. Added benefits paying for bus passes, gym fee rebates, hiring nurses to come and do free flu shots, paying for employees to certify in the pro apps simply because the employee is interested in learning it (not because they need it for their job). free copies of software etc. Not to mention things like employee stock buying programs.

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And they really wanted to do a competition with me and my iPhone to prove that their MS phone was better. Basically they take some obscure feature the MS phone has that they know the iPhone doesn't have (without downloading the appropriate app), and prove to you that their phone is better because they can do something (they have rehearsed) faster than you can.

So then do what I do and turn it around on them. "My turn to pick".

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It's only illegal if you choose to hire all men. There aren't many masculinists (real word) out there, possibly due to the clumsiness of the word.

Actually that's not really true. If it is a job that a man can do as well as a woman and you consistently don't ever hire a man that can be grounds for a judgement that you are sexist to men. especially if you don't ever even interview them.
 
Steve would never have allowed this.

Can we please ban this statement. No one here knows Steve to know what he would or wouldn't have done, would have liked or not. Not to mention the man is deal. What he would have allowed it moot. It's not his Apple anymore and he gave his blessing to Tim and company to do things their way not his. Which is, in fact, allowing everything folks have ever said he wouldn't have

It's a known fact that true Apple fans can channel the late turtlenecked overlord and relay his opinions on whatever is happening today.

Or not. ;)
 
Now the girl that walked up to me smiling, remembered my name for when I was in the store 6 weeks ago AND that I work in the film industry and "hey did you hear about the updates to Aperture. It now has that shared libraries you were saying you wish they had" and so on. Sure she might be working at an above minimum wage level and deserves more and she'll get it because that's the point of 'merit' increases.

Will she? Why would Apple pay her more when they have so many brand loyal youngsters ready to word for less. Is not that what this NYT article says? People are not staying long with Apple. The good ones leave to get better income elsewhere. Apple does not mind.
 
Apple wont be the final destination for most of these people. No matter if you're getting paid $1 or $20, do what you're paid to do at your very best. If not for the company you work for, then for your own pride.
 
I am a stock holder and I am in favor of them giving raises to their employees. Apple is putting some of their wealth back into America and that will benefit our nation as a whole.
 
A small but important point being glossed over

I didn't have time to read past the first page of replies so forgive me if someone else has already mentioned this. HOWEVER, the article cites interviews with former Apple employees. Note the word "former". These former employees don't seem to have a good word for the company. To me this indicates that the NYT went out of its way to slant the article. Also, please bear in mind the small but annoying point being missed: Usually in this type of situation, "former" employees are "former" for a reason, and that reason is usually because there was a problem, and that problem is usually something to do with the "former" employee, not with the company. People in any job can exemplify themselves and go forward if they try hard enough and are willing to keep at it, and that goes for the Apple stores as well as any other employment situation. I'm not trying to say that conditions at the Apple stores or any other retail stores are always perfect, for there are always ups and downs. But this is clearly a situation where 1.) the company's success is being begrudged for whatever reason, and 2.) 43,000 employees aren't crazy while a few "former" employees are sane. It's the other way around.
 
The NY Times is a joke! I wonder what they pay their delivery people?

Since when is a business "required" to pay their employees based on their profit. It's a retail sales job for crying out loud.....geniuses my butt! The NY Times are a bunch of overly liberal jerks. They should be called the NY Slimes
 
What a silly thing to say. If I want info on products when I walk through the door, I want to speak with an intelligent, educated individual who has taken the time to learn all about the products and, in fact, at least can afford to own them. Sure, I do my own research before buying like most people here, and I probably will know at least as much about most products - but I still don't want to be talking to people who aren't confident enough to stand behind the product. That kind of confidence takes time and certainly deserves more than $25K per year.

Also, to people saying "they should just work somewhere else" or something along those lines - remember that your wage isn't really a choice you make if there are no other companies hiring. It's much, much easier said than done to find another job. In other words, just because these people applied to work for Apple doesn't mean it's not still an illusion of choice.


I had an apple employee help me once with plenty of visible tattoos and piercings. He was lucky to be working let alone having a company put him on the front lines representing them with that appearance. He didn't have to do much for me because I walked in knowing what I wanted. Generally speaking though, you disqualify yourself from 80-90% of job opportunities walking around like that. When you enter the adult world and start a career as opposed to a job (yes there is a big difference) you find that out. The point is the market place determines your value based on your skill set. Generally retail is low and they already make more than most. If your life's goal is to work at an apple store, then accept the earning limitations that go with that.
 
Rather than criticize Apple's compensation for it's employees they should be criticizing Disney's pay. I worked 2 years in merchandise for Disney and made a ton of money for the company. I got paid slightly more than minimum wage. People assume that Disney World pays great because of the prices they charge to enter the parks and the prices they charge for food and merchandise. But one year I made $8,800 and the second year I made $7,400. And when I wound up in the hospital with a stroke they penalized me. Apple certainly treats its employees much better than Disney.
Actually Disney & Apple use the exact same philosophy when it comes to employees. They attract young fairly impressionable people that are enthralled with the respective brand, and it's story. It feeds the ego & self esteem of the young person "to work for a famous company".

The employers use proven techniques to make the newbie feel important & essential, much more so than employers that do not use this method on their new hires. They are made to feel like part of the family and the success of the storied company.

Lots of high profile companies use these techniques, Starbucks in another that does this. It more prevalent than many people are aware of.
 
Will she? Why would Apple pay her more when they have so many brand loyal youngsters ready to word for less. Is not that what this NYT article says? People are not staying long with Apple. The good ones leave to get better income elsewhere. Apple does not mind.

If the managers do their jobs properly, then she will because she will be promoted above the entry-level position that a salesperson is.

Sorry to burst your bubbles, people, but being an Apple Store salesperson is an ENTRY-LEVEL position and should be compensated accordingly.
 
My OP (currently at a down vote of 10):

I agree with the angry sentiment expressed throughout the thread. These unskilled workers don't realize how lucky they are to be part a movement so much bigger than they are and so much more important than their individual lives. I feel like if we could round up all the true believers on MacRumors, we could petition Apple to allow us to volunteer in their retail stores, which might allow Apple to at the least stop this wage inflation. Even if we already have full time jobs, we could pitch in on the weekends when Apple Stores are the busiest. Some of us think that our duties as evangelists ended when Apple became the world's most valuable company, but really we are now in a position where we are at the top and we have to fight to stay here. Our mission may no longer be to convert people since the "rest of us" is now all of us, but it takes on different forms such as disputing the myths about labor issues in China and ensuring Apple's American labor doesn't forget what and whom it's working for.

Responses:

A movement bigger than their own lives? Apple makes fine products, but it's a dressed-up electronics company. They're not curing cancer, diabetes, or any of a thousand other things.

Some of you "true believers" are certifiable. Apple is a company, like any other. Steve Jobs was a man, like any other. True, he had a knack for good computers and, ultimately, shiny toys we really don't need for survival. He wasn't a messiah. Apple wasn't worth a damn nearly 20 years ago. Two decades from now, they may not exist. Nothing lasts forever. Such devotion to an electronics company, and the drivel you're spewing, is frightening.

But, if you want to work for a multi-billion dollar corporation for free as a means to live your life ... well, brother, go right ahead. You might be awfully lonely. "Evangealists"? ****, dude, you need help.

Working for Apple for free on the weekends after we've put in our hours at our regular jobs? Hmmmm... You go first :p

Btw, Judging from what I've seen & read about the application process for Apple, it would appear that they select students from good colleges & older workers with extensive resumes in computer/ tech or customer service related fields. These are not uneducated, unskilled people being hired.

This has to be the most ridiculous comment I've seen in awhile on these boards. I'd rather volunteer my time helping a sick person in the hospital, than save the "most valuable company in the world" money and help repair their reputation.

You should maybe start a church. I hear the tax benefits are awesome!

What are you talking about?

1) Unskilled workers? I know retail isn't brain surgery. However, the customer service skill set in an Apple store is unparalleled. These kids in the stores are brilliant, polite and personable. Apple retail can't even possibly compare themselves to other retailers because there is no comparison. For even remotely similar service and customer satisfaction standards, you can only look to hospitality and luxury services.

2) In spite of their grandeur and popularity, there isn't some great mission to be held, other than to help your nanny figure out the iPad. Apple is eager to make simple to use computers that everyone can use, but they are not philanthropists, nor are they leading some great populist electronics movement.

I hope you all get a chance to look at the Forbes article about this topic to see the caliber of people Apple hires.

My response:

I agree with all of you who responded to me. I was getting angry reading the first few pages of comments where people used words like unskilled to describe the workers and said if they didn't like it they should leave, etc.

It annoyed me, especially as I work at a job very similar to the Apple retail stores, directly supporting Apple customers, and I make less than Apple retail employees, and I know that I am not unskilled. In fact most of the people I work with have college degrees, not that you should call anyone regardless of having a degree or not unskilled.

My comment was meant to be a satirical parody of what other people were writing, and I intentionally wrote it in a way that would sound like I was mindlessly supporting a cult. I am a creative writer, and when I write parodies, I generally like to make them close enough to truth that they are biting rather than making them so outlandish they appear clownish and not plausible. If people believed what I wrote in this case as being serious, that sort of makes a point in and of itself.

To be clear: what I wrote was satire. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I obviously thought it would appear outlandish enough to not be construed as possibly being a real opinion (I thought the part about volunteering to work there would at least give it away). ;)
 
Sure Thing Pal

Because I sense, as I don't know for obvious reasons, is when you have absurdly large assets, perhaps something happens where one starts mentally f+++++g with the world rather than enjoying it and perhaps improving it for others, it is a certain phenomena of not exactly greed, but a sense change and deviation, components which then naturally prohibit a reasonable perception of the state of reality, where of course the item you call "appreciation" "morale" is now organically non existent. There are similarities with the rise of the NSDAP in the 30's. The modern world similarities of complacent millions of uniformed workers and the next ones already lined up to keep the machine in constant motion are nothing new, nor good. Historically, the participants were never well compensated, but they were dedicated for one reason or another. Back in Munich, they were also modern fanboys marching with a smile and a great vision for the utopian life as one imagined. I personally think it is all wrong and it ends more or less abruptly one day, so it is important to value what has value. A good wine, and good people at a good place and good music and kindness to all.


Yes, and what I personally sense, as I don't know for obvious reasons, is when you have an absurdly large ego combined with a pseudo intellectual personality, perhaps something happens where one starts mentally f+++++g with the world rather than enjoying it and perhaps improving it for others, it is a certain phenomena of not exactly hubris, but a sense change and deviation, components which then naturally prohibit a reasonable perception of the state of reality, where of course the item you call "common sense" is now organically non existent.

"Organically non existent" I'm impressed :p
 
Can we please ban this statement. No one here knows Steve to know what he would or wouldn't have done, would have liked or not. Not to mention the man is deal. What he would have allowed it moot. It's not his Apple anymore and he gave his blessing to Tim and company to do things their way not his. Which is, in fact, allowing everything folks have ever said he wouldn't have.
^^This. It should be a forum rule. When something so annoying is repeated so often, some rule has to be laid down. Forums like Minecraftforum have rules like these (such as describing a mod for the game when someone wants a feature to be added).

Actually that's not really true. If it is a job that a man can do as well as a woman and you consistently don't ever hire a man that can be grounds for a judgement that you are sexist to men. especially if you don't ever even interview them.
I know it's illegal, but a these kinds of things never really get attention unless it's about a woman having lesser opportunities. There are some ridiculously sexist (and racist) organizations in the US that are not noticed or sometimes even praised.
 
These people work in ******** retail? What do they think they are worth? As a stockholder I see where this is going and I am not ******** pleased. I love how defeatism spreads in America. Those retail employees are able to sell so much per square foot because of what the big boys do. Apple retail would have done just as well if you had monkeys instead of human employes. They are retail workers, any one on Earth can do their job. Hence the low pay. It's appropriate for what they do. If we start going this direction we are all f*cked. Because I want more compensation now too?

Im sure the fly stamp worth of apple stock you own doesn't mean a thing to me or anyone else. As a stockholder you should be ashamed of the outlook and values you present to not only yourself but the employees you look down upon. Here's a gun, use it please and save the oxygen for people that actually need it.
 
Im sure the fly stamp worth of apple stock you own doesn't mean a thing to me or anyone else. As a stockholder you should be ashamed of the outlook and values you present to not only yourself but the employees you look down upon. Here's a gun, use it please and save the oxygen for people that actually need it.

Way to overreact. What you said is a bit odd.
 
As a stockholder, im a little miffed at the entitlement of these retail monkeys. These people do not create wealth, the products simply sell themselves. If anything these people should be paid less. Apple is being overly generous offering them pay above minimum wage
 
Absolutly.

You want a higer paid job, then work for it, study, get out and put yourself forward, start your own company, whatever.

How did this thread go from its title "Apple's Retail Store Staff Compensation Criticized" to "MacRumors Community Criticizes Apple Store Employees Not Leading the Lives We Want Them To"?

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As a stockholder, im a little miffed at the entitlement of these retail monkeys. These people do not create wealth, the products simply sell themselves. If anything these people should be paid less. Apple is being overly generous offering them pay above minimum wage

It would be a very different Apple Store at $7.25 an hour. Not to mention the field day the press would have. You wouldn't be happy with your stock's price.
"These people" couldn't be paid enough to deal with your type of attitude.
 
Yes you are totally right because the opposite of this has worked out so well for Russia, Vietnam, North Korea, Cuba, et al who take from those that have and give to those that dont


Those countries have or had FASCIST governments that hijacked the terms socialism/communism, which is the crap that we were taught to fear here in the USA since WWII. I urge your to do some research on what REAL socialism is before you say another foolish thing on the internet.

Let me help you out, Socialism for dummies.

A few countries where elements of real socialism (non-Marxist) were adopted and has worked... Norway, Sweden, The Netherlands, Austria, France, Germany, The UK, Australia, Japan, Iceland, et al. These countries "took from those that have and gave to those who did not" and it worked out pretty damn well for the citizens of those countries thank you very much.
 
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In any industry, whether you earn $10 an hour or $1000 a day, people will only stay if they feel they are being looked after and appreciated. Most companies realise that by offering the lowest pay/benefits/holiday allowance etc, they will not be able to hold on to their best staff.

In many industries this isn't a problem, but I'd imagine Apple have considered it and most of their employees are happy.
 
Isn't that a principle called supply and demand?

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As a stockholder, im a little miffed at the entitlement of these retail monkeys. These people do not create wealth, the products simply sell themselves. If anything these people should be paid less. Apple is being overly generous offering them pay above minimum wage

It isn't the employees, it's the NT Times (US version of PRAVDA).
 
As a stockholder, im a little miffed at the entitlement of these retail monkeys. These people do not create wealth, the products simply sell themselves. If anything these people should be paid less. Apple is being overly generous offering them pay above minimum wage

Really? If Apple suddenly started paying 7.25 an hour. The press would have a field day with the " big evil slave driving apple ". Eventually the public
Image of Apple would be ruined, sales fall, stocks take a nosedive. Trust me, people will listen to what the media tells them to. Even when facts, common sense and reailty get in the way.

That said. I do make very good money, but I busted my ass in school to be able to do so.

I worked retail for a summer job my 2nd year of college at the JC penny in tallahassee fl. Every other summer it was something just as ****** until I graduated.

It ****ing sucked. Its a ton of work for no money I think I got like 6.50. That motivated me to keep my grades up for sure.

12 bucks an hour for retail is pretty good, I wish I got that. But hey, had to help pay tution somehow right? And beer money lol. And I wish I was allowed to wear jeans lol.

Still, if Apple decided to pay a little bit more. I don't see the issue. Its not like they can't afford it.
 
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