Apple's Retail Store Staff Compensation Criticized

[SlickShoes]

These people work in ******** retail? What do they think they are worth? As a stockholder I see where this is going and I am not ******** pleased. I love how defeatism spreads in America. Those retail employees are able to sell so much per square foot because of what the big boys do. Apple retail would have done just as well if you had monkeys instead of human employes. They are retail workers, any one on Earth can do their job. Hence the low pay. It's appropriate for what they do. If we start going this direction we are all f*cked. Because I want more compensation now too?

It's just depressing reading things like this, these people aren't lesser beings because they work in retail. Comparing retail employees to monkeys is ridiculous.

Life is not about only $$$ and some people get to realise this sooner rather than later, I'd rather spend my life doing the things I enjoy with the people I love and if all I needed to work to get that was a retail job then I would do that.

 

[Seoras]

More money is wrong

I'll start by saying I'm not an Apple share holder.

Giving Apple retail store employees an abnormally higher than industry salary would ruin the stores.

Why?

The job then becomes less about the passion and loyalty to the brand. "...relying on its employees' devotion to the company and a strong fan base..."

Experiential marketing (read Pine & Gilmore's paper on "Welcome to the Experience Economy") requires the employees to share and be part of the experience. They need to believe in what they are selling and love selling it not because they are well paid but because they love what they do.

If you make the job salary focused you attract the wrong type of candidates.
Look at other professions that attract too many of the wrong personality types because of what the job offers. (Police/power, Doctors/prestige, etc)

Apple retail stores would become political hell holes and miniature power bases to be used and abused.

All this focus on the money Apple has made is going to ruin the company and the brand.

 

[allmIne]

This thread is funny. Replace 'Apple' with 'Samsung' and I'd imagine fewer would be defending the salaries.

For what it's worth, if I hear 'as a shareholder' one more time, I'll ****ing scream. I don't care that you hold three shares in the bloody company.

 

[fitshaced]

It's just depressing reading things like this, these people aren't lesser beings because they work in retail. Comparing retail employees to monkeys is ridiculous.

Life is not about only $$$ and some people get to realise this sooner rather than later, I'd rather spend my life doing the things I enjoy with the people I love and if all I needed to work to get that was a retail job then I would do that.

And thats how it should be. So why the fuss from NYT on what they get paid if they are ok with it?

Should any of them declare that they are responsible for $500,000 in sales every year, they have allowed NYT to acheive their goal. If they were responsible for that amount in sales every year, that would make the designers, support staff, testers, management, marketing teams, HR etc all be volunteers. Imagine that!

 

[ggmissmolly]

Employers pay what is required to get the employees they want. Doesn't sound like Apple is having any problem getting employees or retaining them. This whole thing is stupid.

 

[gnasher729]

That's not a good way to see it.

If I pay you 12$ an hour for something that bring me 100$ an hour of profits, would you consider that the 88$ I make from your work is "fair" considered that "hey, you don't need that much qualification to do it".

That depends. Do you make $100 profit from the $12 work? For example, if I go to a hairdresser, I assume almost all the money I pay is for the work done, so if the salon makes $100 profit and pays the hairdresser $12, that would be quite bad. It would also be a good business opportunity for the hairdresser.

If Apple makes $100 profit from sales that the sales person was paid $12 for, there are lots and lots of people involved in this and creating the profit, not just that sales person. Could all those hairdressers quit their job and open their own store? Yes, they could; after hiring one person who handles taxes, payroll and so on. Could all those sales people quit their job and open their own computer or mobile phone company? No, they couldn't. Because most of the cost and most of the profit goes to all the processes that put the product into the store.

 

[iMikeT]

Again if someones career choice is retail salesperson at the local mall, then they don't have much room to complain. It is NOT a career. $12/hr is a living wage. The problem is most people don't live within their means. I've worked minimum wage jobs and listen to co workers complain about how broke they were. Yet I didn't live paycheck to paycheck. They choose to spend money on stuff they didn't need.

It's like some of our state workers that complain about the furlough days. If you're live so close to means that you can't take a 4 days a year hit then you need to reassess where some of your bills.

I'm not going to follow you in the conservative ideology of "personal responsibility" when it comes to socioeconomic conditions.

In the real world, answers are far more complicated than simply saying "most people don't live within their means". This is the built-in flaw of the personal responsibility ideology, it is narrow-minded thinking that generalizes and over simplifies much larger issues in society instead of actually working through the issues.

 

[jackal123uk]

Did I miss something? Since when did the term "compensation" apply to any discussion of payment for services in contractual employment? Perhaps this is a US thing? Most people in the UK would consider compensation to equate to some kind of damages - this just clouds the matter.

That aside, I think the current wages afforded to retail store employees are generous enough, considering what the actually do - every time I've been to an apple store I've known exactly what I wanted, went straight to an assistant, bought it and left - I imagine this is the same for a lot of people. Not once has an assistant tried to up-sell anything (very refreshing!).

What I'm trying to say (and it's probably been said before) is Apple products sell themselves, I'd even go so far as to say that you could change the Apple stores to an automat style full of vending machines and it would have little impact on sales. To say the assistants deserve higher wages when their main function is attendance is ridiculous.

Furthermore, set points for wages are based on principles of supply and demand, I think it's safe to say that demand for these jobs greatly outstrips the supply. With that in mind, if Apple did want to exploit it's retail employees it could very easily lower the wage (perhaps drastically) and still find many people happily queuing up for jobs.

 

[Rafterman]

Well said but don't expect much pity from the lot here. Wrong place for human compassion.

Unfortunately, that can be said of America as a whole too, where corporations have become the heroes and the American worker, the villain. When a CEO does anything they can to make money, they are called good, hard working business people. When a company does anything it can to make money, they are called "effective" and "profitable" and politicians fall over themselves to cut their taxes and pass favorable legislation. But when a worker does their best to earn as much as they can, to get as much of the pie as they can, they are called greedy, see their wages and benefits cut and are asked to "share the burden".

Don't get me wrong, companies and large corporations are important, they are the reason our society and technology has advanced as quickly as it has, due to their ability at research, development and large scale production. But when corporations get all the pie, and workers are only allowed the crumbs, that system is not sustainable over the long hall of centuries. Something is going to eventually give if the worker is not treated with more respect.

 

[slughead]

Please. At a time with most retail destinations are closing and cutting back on employees, Apple continues to expand and provide great wages for a pretty sweet retail job (compared to other places).

It's not Apple's job to provide charity to employees. They provide great products at great prices and people line up around the block to work at their locations for a variety of reasons, including pay.

Just because the company has money doesn't mean it owes it to its employees. If anything it owes it to the shareholders, but the reality is it can do what it wants and WE the PEOPLE, being shareholders and/or employees can decide FREELY whether we want to interact with this company. Currently, they provide a great job and a great product and we should be happy there's a company doing that, as I'd rather have 1 company being fantastically competitive than 100 companies bleeding their owners dry to provide fat checks to employees while soaring off a cliff int bankruptcy. You don't like it? Work somewhere else. If your labor is really worth the money, eventually you'll find a place that will pay for it.

 

[Geekbabe]

They are selling electronics. They are selling electronics. They are selling electronics.

In case you missed it they are selling electronics. It's not strenuous physical labor. They are not 1000's of feet above or below ground. They are not working in hazardous conditions, with heavy machinery or around any number of things that could kill or injure them. They are not even doing skilled delicate tedious work that requires years of training. They are selling electronics.

They are dealing with that dangerous group of people known as "end users" LOL, I'm not sure there's enough money in the world to adequately compensate for that working condition

Seriously, the average salary of 25k before taxes is barely enough to pay rent & buy ramen noodles here in Boston.

 

[Abazigal]

Forget the media, forget the politics, forget everything outside the walls of the company, and here's what I believe: I fail to see what's so awful about a company leader saying, "hey, folks, you're going good work. We're all very happy here at HQ. Here's a token of our appreciation."

If you can boost employee morale and afford to do right by your people, and if they deserve it, then what's the problem with giving folks a raise? This goes a lot deeper than just the retail employees.

Executives need to realize that if you treat people well, pay a fair market wage, and show just a shred of respect, they'd have a lot more loyal, enthusiastic employees. That's good for business.

From a consumer viewpoint, I don't want to shop at a place where the help looks miserable and takes it out on me. I want to shop where the folks look like they want to be there, like they enjoy helping a customer.

The issue I have is this.

Just to check, just what is considered a "fair living wage" in US? Any consensus? Who decides what is fair?

Yes, I agree that people should be able to earn a fair living wage in whatever they do. However, this doesn't mean that a company should just pay them that if their output is deemed to be far less than that. That isn't renumeration, it's charity.

Next, how much of a successful sales at an apple store should be attributed to the staff? Has anyone tried to quantify this? For all we know, the buyer already has a very clear idea of what computer he wants, and the staff there really only needs to collect the money. For example, if I am browsing in a shop, the last thing I want are assistants hovering around me like flies. And when I do commit to a purchase, it will be after I have done my own research and am 100% certain that is what I want (at least for big ticket items like Apple products). Where's the value-add by the Apple retail staff?

The only thing is I can think of is once every year when the ipad is announced, they occasionally have to deal with scalpers returning huge quantities of unsold ipads. Man, no amount of pay can assuage that frustration.

People want higher wages. Are they willing to take on added responsibilities? Or do they expect to just sit there and get paid more for the same amount of work done simply because someone feels they ought to be entitled to more?

IMO, what Apple can do is to train their staff further. Why not let everyone be geniuses? Or empower them to do extra stuff or something. Have a clear path of progression so retail at Apple isn't seen as just another dead-end job. Then as they slowly work their way up and take on more responsibilities, then a higher pay can be justified.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Hah! NYT is such a knee-jerk, thoughtless, clown paper now. It's senior writers must think all those entry level NYT staff reporters are making a killing working there, unlike their Apple Store brethren. They probably think all those beat reporting, Ramen eating, career climbing reporters are really happy writing obits and reporting on fires, and in no way hoping the prestige of writing for NYT leads to more lucrative and prominent jobs in the reporting field.

 

[Geekbabe]

I agree with the angry sentiment expressed throughout the thread. These unskilled workers don't realize how lucky they are to be part a movement so much bigger than they are and so much more important than their individual lives. I feel like if we could round up all the true believers on MacRumors, we could petition Apple to allow us to volunteer in their retail stores, which might allow Apple to at the least stop this wage inflation. Even if we already have full time jobs, we could pitch in on the weekends when Apple Stores are the busiest. Some of us think that our duties as evangelists ended when Apple became the world's most valuable company, but really we are now in a position where we are at the top and we have to fight to stay here. Our mission may no longer be to convert people since the "rest of us" is now all of us, but it takes on different forms such as disputing the myths about labor issues in China and ensuring Apple's American labor doesn't forget what and whom it's working for.

Working for Apple for free on the weekends after we've put in our hours at our regular jobs? Hmmmm... You go first

Btw, Judging from what I've seen & read about the application process for Apple, it would appear that they select students from good colleges & older workers with extensive resumes in computer/ tech or customer service related fields. These are not uneducated, unskilled people being hired.

 

[ikir]

I have friends that works in Apple Stores and they are paid good, have a good organization behind, and everything is fine! Indeed 1 of them was a co-worker of mine and he his paid a lot more than me and works in good condition instead of me!! Today the most important thing is to criticize Apple because everything Apple is news. Work in an Apple Store is hard but a very good work, paid well and if you believe in what you do is great. With today crisis, having a work at Apple is gold, i hope to can work there too in the next years when an Apple Store will pop up in my city (i choosed not to move like my workmate 3 years ago, and probably i made an error).

 

[Rogifan]

Came in expecting the blind fanboys to side against the employees, and I didn't leave disappointed. Absolutely pathetic.

Common sense and Econ 101 has nothing nothing to do with being a fanboy.

 

[thepowerofnone]

Is it just me or has the NYT slightly missed the point here? People go to Apple stores to buy Apple products because the products are so good and there is a (valid) conception amongst people that an Apple store is more likely to have stock and knowledge specific to Apple products than their third party resellers. It would be a pretty poor showing by Apple if Walmart had more Apple related expertise than they did.

Yes the employees are, on the whole, fairly knowledgable but they are certainly not geniuses; they are simply well trained and drilled by Apple. How does the fact that the company they work for makes such popular products require them to be any better at their job than the next retail employee next door? Let's be honest - demand for iPhones is so high that they can't find them harder to sell than the guy working the Motorola phones in a Walmart... If that guy manages to sell a phone he has made a real achievement and is a skilled salesman.

 

[EatingMyOwnHead]

The NY times needs to back off a bit. Apple is a fun company to work with. They treat their employees very well. The health plan is crazy awesome as are the discounts. If you don't like your pay, find another job! Work at Sears where you get minimum wage and are treated like garbage.

 

[leon44]

Why we calling it 'compensation' all of a sudden, we are just talking about pay or wages?
Compensation makes me think of a monetary apology, it's just confusing when people use bigger words for no reason

----------

Oh and also from everyone I know that works there, it's a really fun job that they're lucky to have got, I've never heard anybody complain that they don't get paid enough. I'd work there for half of what they get!

 

[quietstormSD]

I'm not so much of being a downer on there salary. I do believe that most people that buy something at an Apple store, are already sold on what they want to buy and the retail employee is just ironing out the final details. Especially for Apple products. (Accessories, I believe the retail employee definitely helps push the process more).

With that being said, I would hope that Apple has programs that provides some sort of growth for that employee. Yeah most of them would be in and out in 3 years, but why not set up programs that may push them towards the tech or engineering fields.

 

[urbanlung]

I agree with the angry sentiment expressed throughout the thread. These unskilled workers don't realize how lucky they are to be part a movement so much bigger than they are and so much more important than their individual lives. I feel like if we could round up all the true believers on MacRumors, we could petition Apple to allow us to volunteer in their retail stores, which might allow Apple to at the least stop this wage inflation. Even if we already have full time jobs, we could pitch in on the weekends when Apple Stores are the busiest. Some of us think that our duties as evangelists ended when Apple became the world's most valuable company, but really we are now in a position where we are at the top and we have to fight to stay here. Our mission may no longer be to convert people since the "rest of us" is now all of us, but it takes on different forms such as disputing the myths about labor issues in China and ensuring Apple's American labor doesn't forget what and whom it's working for.

I agree, I've actualy been to my local store to offer my support for the company and went as far as to offer to pay apple to work there. Like most right thinking people I understand that it is a privilage to work for Apple, not a right.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Why we calling it 'compensation' all of a sudden, we are just talking about pay or wages?
Compensation makes me think of a monetary apology, it's just confusing when people use bigger words for no reason

I suppose it's just one of those U.S./British english quirks, the same way Britons call a subway, "the tube," or an elevator, "a lift." In the U.S. "compensation" is an accepted word for wages/salary + benefits. There is also legal compensation, but, of course, as english speakers, we know there are many words in the english language that can have different meanings depending on context.

 

[katanna]

Headline should read "Once Again Media Holds Apple To A Higher Standard". *sigh*

Matthew

 

[Takeo]

It's just depressing reading things like this, these people aren't lesser beings because they work in retail. Comparing retail employees to monkeys is ridiculous.

Life is not about only $$$ and some people get to realise this sooner rather than later, I'd rather spend my life doing the things I enjoy with the people I love and if all I needed to work to get that was a retail job then I would do that.

He never said they were lesser beings. You're putting words in his mouth. He said that anyone in the world can do their job. Which is true. That's how things work. The more you have to offer (skills, training, experience, education, etc.) the more people are willing to pay you and the more you can demand. Pretty simple. And there is nothing wrong with that. And there is nothing wrong with working retail. But you get paid in this world based on what you have to offer.

And who says you can't enjoy life doing things you love with people you love and still make tons of money. The two are not mutually exclusive. I LOVE what I do for a living and I make extremely good money and love my life and live it to the fullest. My goal was never money though, that's just a side benefit from ending up loving something that is in high demand.

 

[mac-er]

Yes, the American "compassion" so frequently manifested, also here, is one of the reasons people in Europe would rarely consider offers coming from the US. America has been miss advertised as a melting pot, as a land of opportunity, a free democracy among many other sugar pop propaganda campaigns enthusiastically repeated by the fooled populace where most will never see a Greek island, or Kenya outside of the ever glorified American mall lifestyle.

It's the trendy disposable gadget stupid, they don't change the world, as advertised. Effectively in the race for the newest, and, as told coolest gadgets, Americans furthered categorizing one another and they forgot that all are people while yapping about capitalism, democracy, self penile enlargement, and the eagle on their belt buckle. Except in sappy advertising campaigns. Here all are equal, happy and they will see the world. (in small print: but only virtually on our product)

Oh, please stop with the anti-Americanism. If Apple was in Europe, it would be bankrupt because of the taxes and regulations imposed on it. Europe's entitlement economic policies are about to cause its entire currency to collapse. How is that working out for you?

How about we send another few hundred thousand of our soldiers over there to die for a 3rd time to save your continent from its self-destruction? How about we send billions of dollars over there to rebuild your continent again after you destroy it?

You know nothing absolutely nothing about the United States or the compassion of her people, so shut it. If you are so anti-American, stop buying products made by American companies.