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Apple's Retail Strategy
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dguisinger said:
apple drops prices. not as often as dell, but usually after 6 months, apple usually have faster machines for the same price, or the same machines for lower price.
powerbooks dropped price once and got an update once in 2003. iMac got two updates in 2003. etc.
GFLPraxis said:Additionally, market share doesn't mean as much. If someone new to computers goes to buy one, they look out and see everyone else using Windows so they march over to Dell which everyone else is using and buy one. They don't realize Mac is better. Eventually someone with a Mac reaches them and teaches them the error of their ways.
Right now a lot of people are starting to use computers who could never use them before. I saw a 70 year old woman in a keyboarding class the other day. With all these people new to computers, the first thing they look at is PC.
So the PC manufacturer's maket share will increase faster. This does not mean that Apple is losing anything.
If Apple gains 500,000 new users, and Dell gains 1,000,000, Apple's market share will appear to drop. They still made a large gain, just not quite as much as the others.
Additionally, most people compare Apple to Microsoft. That is silly. Linux should be compared to Microsoft marketshare wise.
Apple is a HARDWARE company, not software company. If Apple started licensing their OS and IBM selling their G5's to other manufacturers like Dell, then Apple could be compared to Microsoft. Since Apple is the HARDWARE company, Apple is directly competing with Dell and Gateway and the likes, NOT with Microsoft.
Dell has what, 15% marketshare? THAT is what Apple is targetting. Once Apple hits 15% marketshare, they will be the biggest hardware company. It might be a waaaaaaays off though
Most people look at Microsoft's 95% or so of the market and think "Apple is really losing bad". But Apple is a hardware company, and if you look at the other market shares, Apple is whupping the rear off Alienware and Sony and others. They are the FIFTH LARGEST in Marketshare for hardware companies. They are #1 for technical support. They are FOURTH in earnings. They are doing quite well
Yay.
I agree completely with your last part...though I must say, for some people that just want e-mail and such, a PC is not an error in the least. I wouldn't want my grandparents to shell out 1200 bucks for something they barely use. It's hard enough to convince them that CD's are a good idea...
But again. Yay for Apple.
3-22 said:
Is that suppose to be a bad thing
That basically means if I'm looking for a relatively fast system that is 2 years old I can get one cheaply on e-bay. Why? Because they are a dime a dozen.Cost, etc.
First, Cost IS an issue. PCs work great for most people. In fact the majority don't know how to use photoshop or some of the more creative things macs do well. The Dell may not have a video card but it will have on board video. It will play some games. It will ballance checkbooks, run office, Mozilla, IE, Roxio, etc.
But if they can get a $500 machine that only lasts 2 years, thats $250 a year. Well within most budgets. Far cheaper than a cable bill. If they have to replace it in 2 years, then fine. They get the newer technology!
And although Apple is a hardware company, very few people but it for the hardware. They buy it for OSX.
First, Cost IS an issue. PCs work great for most people. In fact the majority don't know how to use photoshop or some of the more creative things macs do well. The Dell may not have a video card but it will have on board video. It will play some games. It will ballance checkbooks, run office, Mozilla, IE, Roxio, etc.
But if they can get a $500 machine that only lasts 2 years, thats $250 a year. Well within most budgets. Far cheaper than a cable bill. If they have to replace it in 2 years, then fine. They get the newer technology!
And although Apple is a hardware company, very few people but it for the hardware. They buy it for OSX.
SiliconAddict said:Is that suppose to be a bad thing
ahh, but the problem is, older PCs (generally) have more difficult time running newest windows/software. whereas Mac OS updates seem to bring new life to even older computers, windows OS updates practically require you to get a new hardware to handle the new load. (and often times, it's cheaper that way too...)
of course, getting 2 year old systems goes directly counter to one of the points many PC users rave about PCs: gaming. yeah, sure, you are gonna run latest games on those 2 year old PCs.
even Macs can run games better than 2 year old PCs! (if the games get ported at all, that is.
)
A few points...
You can't tell how long a computer will last when you walk in off the street and look at it. The notion that a Mac lasts a lot longer is a highly abstract, unprovable consideration.
You can tell that HP or Dell all-in-one package costs a lot less.
And finally, I wish people would quit pointing to the eMac as Apple's answer to the budget-conscious customer. Apple almost goes out of its way to hide it. A lot of people aren't aware it exists. The iMac is highly visible. The eMac is the spurned step-sister they keep hidden in the basement. Trsut me, no one in the real world (not you Apple fanboys) knows it exists.
A lot of people do care about price. They are thrifty people. There is no shame in this. They will never touch a Mac unless they have had firsthand or reliable secondhand experience with one and know for certain that the Mac will last that much longer than the Dell.
You can't tell how long a computer will last when you walk in off the street and look at it. The notion that a Mac lasts a lot longer is a highly abstract, unprovable consideration.
You can tell that HP or Dell all-in-one package costs a lot less.
And finally, I wish people would quit pointing to the eMac as Apple's answer to the budget-conscious customer. Apple almost goes out of its way to hide it. A lot of people aren't aware it exists. The iMac is highly visible. The eMac is the spurned step-sister they keep hidden in the basement. Trsut me, no one in the real world (not you Apple fanboys) knows it exists.
A lot of people do care about price. They are thrifty people. There is no shame in this. They will never touch a Mac unless they have had firsthand or reliable secondhand experience with one and know for certain that the Mac will last that much longer than the Dell.
brhmac said:
You are a little mistaken. All Apple desktops come with the mouse and keyboard, just like PCs. Apple monitors are a little expensive, but are in the price range of other DVI (digital) LCDs.
I have never seen a laptop that truly comes with a mouse...Dell is pretty good at hiding options so they appear to be stadard equipment (which is why it is so hard to find those advertised deals)
But on the other hand...most people can do everything they want fairly painlessly on a PC and it is significantly cheaper. Many people say they will pay the extra cash for the elegance of Apple hardware and software, and it is worth the premium, that is for each customer to decide.
Sakever's criticism is valid, because as computers get cheaper, and Apple retains its severe pricing premium, it become less and less viable to the average computer user. Apple makes great software and hardware, but it is getting to the point where you need to be a musician, video editor or drive a Rolls Royce to justify getting one. Windows gets the job done in an acceptable manner, and you have a lot more hardware options and price ranges. Apple hardware at the loend is underpowered and overpriced. Apple's current rate of growth is not keeping up with growth of the industry. Although Apple is making money, marketshare will determine if mac users get online banking, tax software, internet services and printer drivers. All of that is pretty necessary for me.
Macrumors said:
Yawn!
Apple's share of the installed market is 8-12 percent, depending on who you believe. Sales are 1-2% because you don't need to replace your Mac every two years. We have a beige G3, two tangerine iBooks and two white iBooks, all running OS X. Apple also has 30% of the scientific market, up from 10% a few years back. Maybe bizweek was having a slow day. Apparently you weren't paying attention while the Switch ads were running. After they got rolling, I seem to recall many, many confessional ads with goofy, non-intrusive music and white backgrounds. Whether or not you think they accurately portray OS X or Apple computers is really beside the point. That's not what ads are supposed to do.rjwill246 said:
Take, for example, those shampoo commercials in which the women who use the shampoo get, ahem...somewhat excited. Those commercials don't talk at length about the type of chemicals used in the shampoo, or how it's 35% more effective than competing shampoos...or any of that nonsense. But I imagine the commercials themselves are pretty darn effective.
Hey, speaking of which - why'd the better business bureau go after Apple's ad claim? I use shampoo every morning but I never react that way.
Awimoway said:
In August 1999 I installed iMacs in a Dallas-area law office. They are still running, no problems. They had formerly been on a Windows network. My support billings dropping from $600/month to $600/year.
A year or so later, some families in the law office bought Dell Dimension 4100's for home use. All of them them are broken. They also bought a Dell notebook. It is broken. They paid me half the cost of the machines to try and keep them running. They are switching to iMacs this August. It's in my best financial interest to keep them in Dell's, but I have good ethics, so I'm switching them to iMacs at home.
Call it highly abstract if you want, but that is pretty material to my customer.
Awimoway said:
For cost/performance, the Mac has been less expensive than PC's since 1984. Total cost of ownership includes price, replacement frequency, software and support. The Mac is clearly clearly clearly less expensive when it comes to total costs of ownership. That's why us thrifty people use them. It can also be argued that the Mac is less expensive for hardware alone, when it comes to cost/performance, but that is more subjective than the total cost of ownership.
If you want mediocrity at a high price of long-term ownership go with a Windows machine.
who cares?
I mean honestly, as long as Apple stays profitable, has money in the bank and year-over-year sells more computers, who really cares ... People seem to be so damned interested in making these comparisons. What's the point?
Apple sells milloins of computers and makes billions of dollars. I don't see the problem?
I mean honestly, as long as Apple stays profitable, has money in the bank and year-over-year sells more computers, who really cares ... People seem to be so damned interested in making these comparisons. What's the point?
Apple sells milloins of computers and makes billions of dollars. I don't see the problem?
rjwill246 said:
thank's, you talk right out of my heart... it couldn't be more true ! Most people don't even know that Mircro$oft Office runs on Macs {nervous laugh} HAAAAAHAAAAAA
Right, but my point is that since there are so few of us (10% or less, depending on which estimate you believe) who use Macs (and I think there is an embarrassingly high number of Mac users who still cling to OS 9 or earlier) that there isn't enough word-of-mouth endorsement of Macs' reliability.corvus said:...
Call it highly abstract if you want, but that is pretty material to my customer.
For cost/performance, the Mac has been less expensive than PC's since 1984. Total cost of ownership includes price, replacement frequency, software and support. The Mac is clearly clearly clearly less expensive when it comes to total costs of ownership. That's why us thrifty people use them. It can also be argued that the Mac is less expensive for hardware alone, when it comes to cost/performance, but that is more subjective than the total cost of ownership.
If you want mediocrity at a high price of long-term ownership go with a Windows machine.
I may have just convinced my father-in-law to get a Mac. The only PC-maker he trusts (some local outfit) told him that a quality home video-editing Windows system would run him $1500. I told him about the Macs' ease of use, its lack of viruses and major security vulnerabilities, and it's incredible longevity. We priced Macs, and he's thinking seriously about getting the Superdrive eMac for a lot less than the PC system.
But my point is that that kind of thing doesn't happen often enough. What if I hadn't been there to talk it over with him? And what if I hadn't convinced him. A lot of my friends are not so easily convinced. My dad (not that he ever listens to me
) looked at the eMac price and then went and priced HP's. He didn't need a new monitor and got an HP for about $500. Is he an idiot, subverting momentary savings for long term woe? Yeah. Well he ever learn? Probably not. $500 was in his budget. $850 wasn't. Some people, my dad included, are convinced that the best way to do things is to buy cheap and replace often. I just think that Apple's marketing strategy seems to be relying on word of mouth almost exclusively. And that's a poor way to do things. Because there's not enough of us, and we don't always succeed at convincing people. And most people are not going to convince themselves.
I, myself, switched two years ago because of word of mouth convincing. If that Mac user hadn't spoken up, I would still be in PC hell.
GFLPraxis said:Additionally, market share doesn't mean as much. If someone new to computers goes to buy one, they look out and see everyone else using Windows so they march over to Dell which everyone else is using and buy one. They don't realize Mac is better. Eventually someone with a Mac reaches them and teaches them the error of their ways.
Right now a lot of people are starting to use computers who could never use them before. I saw a 70 year old woman in a keyboarding class the other day. With all these people new to computers, the first thing they look at is PC.
So the PC manufacturer's maket share will increase faster. This does not mean that Apple is losing anything.
If Apple gains 500,000 new users, and Dell gains 1,000,000, Apple's market share will appear to drop. They still made a large gain, just not quite as much as the others.
Additionally, most people compare Apple to Microsoft. That is silly. Linux should be compared to Microsoft marketshare wise.
Apple is a HARDWARE company, not software company. If Apple started licensing their OS and IBM selling their G5's to other manufacturers like Dell, then Apple could be compared to Microsoft. Since Apple is the HARDWARE company, Apple is directly competing with Dell and Gateway and the likes, NOT with Microsoft.
Dell has what, 15% marketshare? THAT is what Apple is targetting. Once Apple hits 15% marketshare, they will be the biggest hardware company. It might be a waaaaaaays off though
Most people look at Microsoft's 95% or so of the market and think "Apple is really losing bad". But Apple is a hardware company, and if you look at the other market shares, Apple is whupping the rear off Alienware and Sony and others. They are the FIFTH LARGEST in Marketshare for hardware companies. They are #1 for technical support. They are FOURTH in earnings. They are doing quite well
Yes, the 95% vs 2% of windows versus apples is misleading, because apple does hardware....but they also do software. And the software side is important. It's the software that make macs truely exceptional computers. Sure, the hardware tends to be better, but it's also more expensive, and I doubt that's why many of us are on macs. Apple's only selling point besides style is their rock solid, kickass, secure, easy to use OS, and the software that comes with.
Further, it is the platform that matters as far as marketshare. It makes an emormous difference for anybody wanting to write software for a mac, and you cannot argue that software is not important. And, how does hardware marketshare matter, as to the viability of the computer and the company? The graphics cards, etc. are not (I don't believe) mac specific, so they will be there, same quality, similar price, no matter what apple's market share. Not true of software.
So, I agree, while making a direct comparison between apple and microsoft is not appropritate, it is not appropriate either to compare apple directly with other hardware companies. Apple does both.
wrldwzrd89 said:Yes, it's "free" money, but I always forget to use it and the rebate takes so long to process that I don't remember when I sent it in
OH YEAH!
I have been ripped-off by Apple twice on mail in rebates. I don't even like to get started on the subject but I think mail in rebates are pretty close to fraud.
My first bad experience with mail-in rebates was with a ZIP drive purchase where I was cheated out of 50 bucks.
Apple got me twice on iPod discounts with purchase of PowerBooks. In both Apple cases they convienently lost my original receipt and even though it was purchased thru the online Apple store they would not honor the rebate. By the time I had got the Apple store to reissue a receipt and get it sent to Apple rebate the rebate period was over and Apple wouldn't honor it!
Awimoway said:
take a look at walmart. That's the attitude of the country.
But here's the thing. That's stupid with most things, because, well, you don't end up saving money, and just go to the store more often. But, can you really say that's a bad strategy for computers, that get cheaper and faster at exponential rates? If you buy a really good mac every four years, or a pc that costs half as much, but then you update it 2 years later, with which do you on average have a more powerful (and up to date as far as things like USB/firewire ports where the standards change) computer? It's hard to tell. The main benefit with computers of buying quality instead of replacing is just that you don't have to replace and move all of your info from one to the other, etc.
It's a small market share that wants to pay the money up front and have the computer last, instead of just replacing a cheap windows box all the time.
(but then, of course, we get mac OS
)jxyama said:
True, but then dell users don't need to check sites like these to know when the price drop/new updates are coming, so they get a decent deal
They just say, hey, I want a computer, lets get one, and do.
dontmatter said:
Macs exeptional computers ? What is so exeptional ? The price maybe ? Surely not the renewal cycle ! HAAAAAAHAAHAHAHA
Before you read this post and start bitching let me say im a big mac nut and i love apple products.....
But at this point, it seems like apple has no strategy at all. All of their products are so outdated. The Powermac is outdated by almost a year. Powerbooks are outdated by almost 6 months. Other than looking nice cause of the alumnium or the white plastic apple products have nothing going for them. Its actually good that they have no retail strategy right now, because people going into the stores are gonna be like what the hell am I gonna pay 500000000 dollars for a product that hasnt been updated for a year. Who cares if the computer's OS is a million times better than its competition if its running on an outdated computer. That would be like installing OS X on an apple IIe. Basically, apple needs to get their **** in gear and start banging out products every 4 or 5 months or else even hard core mac nuts are going to be turned away.
But at this point, it seems like apple has no strategy at all. All of their products are so outdated. The Powermac is outdated by almost a year. Powerbooks are outdated by almost 6 months. Other than looking nice cause of the alumnium or the white plastic apple products have nothing going for them. Its actually good that they have no retail strategy right now, because people going into the stores are gonna be like what the hell am I gonna pay 500000000 dollars for a product that hasnt been updated for a year. Who cares if the computer's OS is a million times better than its competition if its running on an outdated computer. That would be like installing OS X on an apple IIe. Basically, apple needs to get their **** in gear and start banging out products every 4 or 5 months or else even hard core mac nuts are going to be turned away.
spinko said:
The software, as I said.
And to play defense in advance, no, not games and other third party software, but the OS, etc.
And, still, you can't call (although the price is exceptional) say, the 17 inch PB plain, now can you?
Awimoway said:
Huh? The eMac is right on the front page of the Apple online store, very prominently displayed (just below the powerbooks, right next to the iMacs). They are also prominently displayed in every Apple retail store I've been to. They are not hidden. They are usually on the counter right next to the iMacs. I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Well, I'll throw in my two cents here. I was a dyed in the wool Windows user from 1992-2003. I had several PCs over the years and used every version of Windows from 3.0 all the way up to XP. I've both built my own systems as well as purchased them at retail. Steadily over the years I had grown more and more frustrated with PCs, and after Windows ME, I was about ready to throw my PC over the balcony. Shortly after that time, I had a friend that introduced me to the Mac, but didn't push me at all into buying one. After almost a year of seeing how well hers worked and being intrigued with OS X, I decided to take the plunge. The bottom line is, as a Windows user, I just flat out "didn't get it" about Macs until I actually bought one.
Now that I have had one for about a year, I'd never go back to a Windows PC at any price. Call Macs overpriced or underpowered all you want, but they simply work. Another thing I have found amazing is that they have incredible resale value. You absolutely never see that with a used Windows PC. And after doing a little research on eBay, I see that I could still get close to within $100 of what I paid for the Mac I bought almost a year ago.
But above all, I love OS X and to me the price premium for the Mac hardware is not an issue considering you get an equally awesome OS to run on that hardware. And since no other manufacturer out there other than Apple can offer that combination, I don't see a time in the near future that I'll be buying from anyone other than Apple.
The retail stores are a great idea because they expose more people to both Macs and OS X than would ever see them otherwise. Once they go into an Apple Store and demo it on one of the many machines in there, (assuming they have an open mind like I did) they'll see what all the fuss is about and that Macs are definitely worth the money if you want the best and are tired of fooling around with the "just good enough" PCs out there.
Now that I have had one for about a year, I'd never go back to a Windows PC at any price. Call Macs overpriced or underpowered all you want, but they simply work. Another thing I have found amazing is that they have incredible resale value. You absolutely never see that with a used Windows PC. And after doing a little research on eBay, I see that I could still get close to within $100 of what I paid for the Mac I bought almost a year ago.
But above all, I love OS X and to me the price premium for the Mac hardware is not an issue considering you get an equally awesome OS to run on that hardware. And since no other manufacturer out there other than Apple can offer that combination, I don't see a time in the near future that I'll be buying from anyone other than Apple.
The retail stores are a great idea because they expose more people to both Macs and OS X than would ever see them otherwise. Once they go into an Apple Store and demo it on one of the many machines in there, (assuming they have an open mind like I did) they'll see what all the fuss is about and that Macs are definitely worth the money if you want the best and are tired of fooling around with the "just good enough" PCs out there.