Apple's Retail Strategy

[Awimoway]

Huh? The eMac is right on the front page of the Apple online store, very prominently displayed (just below the powerbooks, right next to the iMacs). They are also prominently displayed in every Apple retail store I've been to. They are not hidden. They are usually on the counter right next to the iMacs. I'm not sure what you are talking about.

We are obviously going to very different stores. Every Apple Store I've been to, they are not on display in the front. The only place you'll see them is at the kiddie table. In every CompUSA, they aren't on display and you'll be lucky if you even see a box of one.

And most people who do not use Macs but are familiar with them think only of the funky swivel lcd one (iMac, of course) and the notebooks.

 

[NinjaMonkey]

All three Apple Stores in my area have eMacs on display in the same section as the iMacs and iBooks as well as the kids table. The two CompUSA's near me both have eMacs on display and have boxs sitting out.

 

[Flowbee]

We are obviously going to very different stores. Every Apple Store I've been to, they are not on display in the front. The only place you'll see them is at the kiddie table. In every CompUSA, they aren't on display and you'll be lucky if you even see a box of one.

And most people who do not use Macs but are familiar with them think only of the funky swivel lcd one (iMac, of course) and the notebooks.

I think you should go check again.

I've been to every Apple store in the SF Bay Area, as well as stores in Las Vegas, Atlanta, and NYC. The layouts may be different, but they all feature the eMac in the front of the store near the iMacs. CompUSA is not an Apple Store, but at the one in downtown San Francisco there is one counter of Mac desktops and the eMac is there right along side of the other models. Same goes for the Emeryville CompUSA.

 

[Abstract]

No, and for good reason.

1. I don't want a huge CRT monitor (viewable screen size 16 inches).
2. I want at minimum a CD/RW drive. Dell is offering a CD-ROM drive
3. You need more 128MB of RAM to run XP Home.

One shouldn't have to upgrade the computer as soon as you buy it.

.....

Please. Not the price argument again.

Yes, if you want a poorly constructed computer made out of cheap plastic parts that's likely to break inside of 2 years, buy a bargain Dell or HP or Gateway or whatever. If you want a quality machine that will easily run for 4+ years and still have a decent resale value after that, buy a Mac.

I am on a Dell right now. It is a fine machine, runs perfectly, does what I want it to.

...... The two prior Macs had major system failures that lost ALL of my data. I've never had that happen with any Dell or Gateway PC that I've used.

Apple is not perfect. Its computers are not perfect. Dell's market share is what it is because it builds a good-quality PC, hits the price point consumers want and offers the functionality they need.

This truly was the crappiest argument Mac zealots ever put up. brhmac has the right idea.

Dell sells plastic computers, yes, but they aren't crap. They won't break within 2 years because a desktop for $500 isn't likely to be moved more often than a Mac, so there's really not much of a risk in a Dell breaking for no reason. If it breaks, its the users fault. I don't own a Dell, but my friends have never had a problem with any of their Dell desktops or laptops with the exception of some Windows trouble. However, that is also becoming less of an issue as Windows is obviously getting much better.

Also, there's no Mac that doesn't have to be upgraded as soon as you buy it. Think of the RAM. Think of that one button mouse that most people dislike. Yes, Dell may provide a CRT and CD-ROM drive, but for $499 you're not getting a POS computer. You're just getting a computer with less of the features YOU need. Its not inherently worse because of the price or lack of things YOU happen to need. Plus, Mac users are paying out of their ass for the additional Combo Drive, Superdrive, and flat panel. The Dell may cost $499, but for a small price hike, they can get all of that and a 2 week trip to Europe or 4 high-end iPods.

I'd say that Dell consumers aren't necessarily dumber for buying an "inferior" computer. They're just not dumb enough to pay an extra $2000 for a slightly better (although much better looking) OS and a Combo drive/Superdrive. In other words, they're probably financially smarter than us Mac users. Macs are better, no doubt, but you're paying 4 times more for a computer that isn't necessarily 4 times better.

- Abstract

PS: I love my Mac.

 

[mullmann]

And thats what really pisses me off. Apple is horrible at respecting consumers money. Lets take a look at Dell.

Dell releases a computer at say $1500. 2 months alter its at $1400, another 2 months later its at $1100. Every 2-3 months Dell introduces a better machine at the same price point....either faster CPU, better memory, GPU, etc.

Apple on the other hand:
Releases a new computer at $2500. 2 months later....$2500.....6 months later $2500. It stays the exact same price until its replaced, and it takes 6 months or LONGER for apple to update their line. Not only does Apple update their line every 6 months, they typically replace the entireline....making a $2500 investment a month earlier completely worthless.

Sure, most consumers don't know about this business practice, but unless you buy it the day Apple announces it (and they actually ship on time) I have considered them during these Jobsonian years to have horrible business practices because they really do not respect the consumer.

Respect is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. In your argument, it is respectful for your brand-new computer to start being devalued almost immediately after you buy it, and to be replaced with something better a short time after that. As opposed to the "Jobsonian" way where it holds its value for an extended period. Incidentally, Apple does cut its prices routinely, generally about halfway through any given model's life.

 

[Mr_Ed]

...
Also, there's no Mac that doesn't have to be upgraded as soon as you buy it. Think of the RAM. Think of that one button mouse that most people dislike. Yes, Dell may provide a CRT and CD-ROM drive, but for $499 you're not getting a POS computer. You're just getting a computer with less of the features YOU need. Its not inherently worse because of the price or lack of things YOU happen to need. Plus, Mac users are paying out of their ass for the additional Combo Drive, Superdrive, and flat panel. The Dell may cost $499, but for a small price hike, they can get all of that and a 2 week trip to Europe or 4 high-end iPods.

I'd say that Dell consumers aren't necessarily dumber for buying an "inferior" computer. They're just not dumb enough to pay an extra $2000 for a slightly better (although much better looking) OS and a Combo drive/Superdrive. In other words, they're probably financially smarter than us Mac users. Macs are better, no doubt, but you're paying 4 times more for a computer that isn't necessarily 4 times better.

- Abstract

PS: I love my Mac.

In my experience, the things I want the computer to be able to do well are the same things anyone else would want. I have observed that many PC buyers simply do not know all the things they should be able to do with a computer. These are the ones that initially buy the $500 systems because if you have a limited view of what you might want to do with the computer, any old system will do and "the cheaper, the better."

I always look to my mother as an example. She does things with digital photography, music, and art work on her iMac that she never even thought about doing on her PC. If you had any idea what a huge "technophobe" my mom was a few years ago, you would understand what an incredible accomplishment it is that she is able to do what she does now.

The point is that many of those who go for the $500 system because they don't know better, later have their eyes opened to other possibilities, and only then figure out their system is not adequate. By then, they feel the have an "investment" (time/money) in Windows and they usually continue the Wintel buying trend inspite of whatever technical difficulties they experience along the way.

One more comment on the importance of "price". I have had a hand in "converting" at least 8 people (relatives, friends, colleagues) to the Mac platform over the last few years. Not one of them would ever go back to a Windows machine at any price. I'm sure there are a few who simply "don't get it and never will", and they are clamoring to go back to the PC, but those are very few and far between.

 

[mullmann]

Before you read this post and start bitching let me say im a big mac nut and i love apple products.....

But at this point, it seems like apple has no strategy at all. All of their products are so outdated. The Powermac is outdated by almost a year. Powerbooks are outdated by almost 6 months. Other than looking nice cause of the alumnium or the white plastic apple products have nothing going for them. Its actually good that they have no retail strategy right now, because people going into the stores are gonna be like what the hell am I gonna pay 500000000 dollars for a product that hasnt been updated for a year. Who cares if the computer's OS is a million times better than its competition if its running on an outdated computer. That would be like installing OS X on an apple IIe. Basically, apple needs to get their **** in gear and start banging out products every 4 or 5 months or else even hard core mac nuts are going to be turned away.

The notion of hardware being "outdated" is really subjective, and all you've done is claim (very broadly) that Apple hardware is outdated without explaining why you think so, and giving a good metric for your judgment. A lot of the hysteria about keeping hardware "current" is perpetuated by the manufacturers themselves, who know that pumping out a continuing stream of "improvements" helps to shorten consumers' replacement cycle, which is great for the manufacturers but less certainly so for the consumers, who probably wouldn't be able to tell any differences among using the various P4 flavors out there (for example) if they had the chance to compare them side-by-side. Your assertion that you might as well run OS X on a IIe as on Apple's current offerings is just silly, and how is the PowerMac outdated by a year? The G5 hasn't even been out that long!

 

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Hey,

Can you provide links to the info you're quoting? Would love to see the hard numbers.

Thanx.

Yawn! Apple's share of the installed market is 8-12 percent, depending on who you believe. Sales are 1-2% because you don't need to replace your Mac every two years. We have a beige G3, two tangerine iBooks and two white iBooks, all running OS X. Apple also has 30% of the scientific market, up from 10% a few years back. Maybe bizweek was having a slow day.

 

[mullmann]

We are obviously going to very different stores. Every Apple Store I've been to, they are not on display in the front. The only place you'll see them is at the kiddie table. In every CompUSA, they aren't on display and you'll be lucky if you even see a box of one.

And most people who do not use Macs but are familiar with them think only of the funky swivel lcd one (iMac, of course) and the notebooks.

Agreed on the eMacs in my local Apple store, but for comparison, all of my local CompUSAs have several eMacs on display. Dangers of painting with a broad brush.

 

[BoRegardless]

I quote:
"Windows XP, as much as it pains me to admit, is a fine OS. It's clean, simple and does what people need it to do -- plus they can play all the new games."

And Note: So get those danged G5 laptops & desktops out with the new Virtual PC so we Apple users can "have it all".

I use the Mac whenever possible, & XP because I must.

Better on a Mac.

How about that for an Apple slogan!

BoRegardless

 

[brhmac]

Bottom Line

Apple G5 @ 1.6 GHz w/ 17-inch flatscreen = $2,498

Dell Dimension 8300 @ 3.4 GHz w/ 17-inch flat-screen = $1,787

 

[Some_Big_Spoon]

I agree. So split to company in 2, and let me run OSX on whatever I please.

*preparing for newbie/kiddie freakout*

Yes, the 95% vs 2% of windows versus apples is misleading, because apple does hardware....but they also do software. And the software side is important. It's the software that make macs truely exceptional computers.

 

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Facts have no place here. After the newbs clean up the puddles you just made them create, they'll turn on the flame throwers.

Welcome to the dollhouse.

Apple G5 @ 1.6 GHz w/ 17-inch flatscreen = $2,498

Dell Dimension 8300 @ 3.4 GHz w/ 17-inch flat-screen = $1,787

 

[Some_Big_Spoon]

I've been to 32 Apple Stores across the country, and world (tokyo), and each one has the eMacs at the kiddie table, and none mixed in with the other puters.

Overhead a few people saying that "they must be for kids to use when the parents are shopping at the store".. i.e. folks don't know they're for sale.

Just relaying my experience.

Agreed on the eMacs in my local Apple store, but for comparison, all of my local CompUSAs have several eMacs on display. Dangers of painting with a broad brush.

 

[Wash!!]

I just went to dell and the apple store

Facts have no place here. After the newbs clean up the puddles you just made them create, they'll turn on the flame throwers.

Welcome to the dollhouse.

There is no way to build a Dell machine that is comparable to the imac 17" with superdrive the dell web site.

1. Apple imac LCD (DVI)-DELL-analog
2. If you want to be able to do music,movies, etc.. you have to upgrade $300 more
3. If you want to burn DVD's another "upgrade"

the list goes on...

 

[MacFan782040]

I once heard that Apple destroys all of their unsold products so they can claim a tax-refund. Is this true?? I would hate to see unsold Apple products crushed to death just so they can get Tax dollars. This world has a problem. I reciently found out that Dunkin Donuts throws away all the uneaten donughts at the end of each day. Same with every other resturant out there probably. And there are starving families all over the world. Heck, there are starving people right here in my town but they can't give the food away because if a speck of dirt gets on it and they get sick, some moron can sue them. How rediculous.

 

[brhmac]

Bottom Line Pt. 2

There is no way to build a Dell machine that is comparable to the imac 17" with superdrive the dell web site.

1. Apple imac LCD (DVI)-DELL-analog
2. If you want to be able to do music,movies, etc.. you have to upgrade $300 more
3. If you want to burn DVD's another "upgrade"

the list goes on...

The comparison I made was with the G5 1.6 Ghz and the Dimension 8300 @ 3.4 Ghz. Both have cd and dvd drives based on the way I configured them and each has 256 mb ram.

Trying to do as objective a comparison as possible on "professional grade" machines. (BTW, no mention in my post of the iMac). Even with the $300 additional for video editing software, the Dimension is hundreds less and delivers twice the clock speed.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Facts have no place here. After the newbs clean up the puddles you just made them create, they'll turn on the flame throwers.

Welcome to the dollhouse.

Neither do arrogant attitudes and name calling - on either side of the issue.

Play nice, gang.

 

[SiliconAddict]

um, sorry, that figure is precisely called the "market share." at 3%, apple ships 1 Mac for every 33 computers shipped. apple market share is not 0.1%, not even "conservatively."

You can't get your numbers from market share numbers. Simply a 95% market share is made up of god knows how many already established (Read: older) systems. Esp considering there are no firm number on Apple market share. Apple users keep their systems for an extraordinarily long amount of time compared to the average PC user. The only good market share numbers are good for is to state static figures such as there are 33 PC's for every 1 Mac.

And I'm sorry but I have a VERY hard time believing that the daily average is 1 Mac for every 33 PC's. I won't dismiss it but the distribution and sale methods are pathetically small in comparison to combined top PC manufacturers. 33 to 1 sounds off.

 

[=pa=]

I just received an email from Salkever, the guy who wrote the piece in Business Week. I told him that in the May MacWorld, Jason Snell makes the point that roughtly 50% of the Mac buyers are first-time buyers, which kind of scotches his argument that the Apple stores aren't helping Apple's "Switch" campaign. Here's what he replied:

"Kinda not. What if an equal number are switching to PCs? Then what's the net-net? No one ever talks about that possibility. Just a thought. I would hope not as I love Macs and have owned them for over 20 years but better to be paranoid."

 

[Azoblue]

I'm sorry, but you have to upgrade a mac when you buy it - iBooks come with 128Mb, which isn't enough...

wrong. all iBooks come with 256 MB of RAM. try again.

 

[painandgreed]

*DING* We have a winner

I mean honestly, as long as Apple stays profitable, has money in the bank and year-over-year sells more computers, who really cares ... People seem to be so damned interested in making these comparisons. What's the point?

Apple sells milloins of computers and makes billions of dollars. I don't see the problem?

*DING* We have a winner!

Apple is a hardware company, but hardware doesn't seel itself. Hardware sales are still determined by the "killer app". The trouble of late has been that any potential "killer app" has been avaiable for both platforms and the cheaper one often won reguardless of performance. If you look at Apple's directin in the last few years, you see them increasingly putting out their own software to act as the killer app on their hardware. when Adobe canceled Premiere for the mac, nobody cared because everybody was already using Apple's Final Cut Pro. In the last few years they have been concentrating on the video and music industries. If they can hold onto being the standard in those industries alone, it will probably be enough to keep Apple afloat.

The "killer app" is different for different people. For the general consumer, it probably isn't iLife, .Mac, any other iApp or a stylish case, it would be games or cheap price. Both are hard markets to get into. Games compete with consoles and would mean lots of hardware integration. Windows has the lead and it would be hard to take away. If Apple had bought Bungie before MS, they might have worked towards that goal, but it would still be a hard uphill battle. While cheap price means cheap profits and they can probably do better business by concentrating on the profesional market than by trying to increase market share with cheap machines.

In the future, I expect we'll see Apple slowly buying new companies or putting out new software to slowly creep into various markets one niche at a time. today, video and music, tomorrow maybe academic level math and statistical programs. Slowly creeping department by department rather than the entire company at a time. Once the art or video department absolutly has to run Macs, then the companies network and internal operations have to accomodate them and resistance to other departments switching lessens. There's no economic incentive to fight for market share and the low end cheap machine market rather than the various high end niche markets.

 

[Sedulous]

Apple apparently shot the lot when they made their 1984 ad. Since then, their advertising has been dismal to mediocre at best. Even the iPod ads are just amusing little things and convey very little information- veritable cream puffs. It is baffling that OS X has not been mass marketed: the security features alone, forget ease of use, are simply too compelling to ignore, yet that is exactly what Apple has done. Their whole advertising program, if you could call it that, is off-center and has given them a very poor return on their investment. One wonders where Apple really does want to go in the future. They are certainly keeping Apple computers a secret. The success of the iPod aside, that in and of itself, is absolutely NO reflection of the capabilities of the company. I can only wonder, what the hell are they thinking when they produce extraordinarily expensive product, albeit of the highest caliber, then fail miserably in telling the world about it? I think Apple shareholders should demand an explanation from Apple for failing to barely ever approach Dell's advertising 'prowess,' which as we all know, is in your face, all the time.

What are you talking about? Extraordinarily expensive? Dell advertising is even more uncommon than Apple's.

 

[Flowbee]

I've been to 32 Apple Stores across the country, and world (tokyo), and each one has the eMacs at the kiddie table, and none mixed in with the other puters.

None mixed in with the other computers? You are mistaken. I think since you may not be interested in the eMacs, you probably didn't notice them. Here's a photo from the Apple Store Ginza (since you said you've been there). It looks like the eMac is in the 'home' computing section, next to the iMac.

I'm not saying that Apple couldn't market the eMac more agressively, but they are certainly not hiding them.

 

[brhmac]

Dell's advertising is straightforward

Dell advertising is even more uncommon than Apple's.

Dell's advertising, even with the "Dude, I'm a dufus." campaign, is classic advertising. The commercials emphasize the product, the value of the brand and the values of the company.

Going to college? Buy a Dell.

Want a computer designed for how YOU use it? Buy a Dell.

Have a question about the computer you bought? Buy a Dell. Our support people are on staff 24x7.

Worried about buying a computer? Don't. Our product testing is rock-solid.

Apple's approach?

Some guy on a chair blown through the walls of his house while the wife and their Jack Russell Terrier look on in shock.

Message: ?