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Microsoft, Amazon, MediaTek, Boeing
Intel has never served as a pure play fab. What that means is Intel processes are designed for Intel chips.
.... None of the customers you mentioned are designing high performance silicon.

Amazon Trainium4

" ... Amazon claims that the technology will allow its Trainium4 accelerators, Graviton CPUs, and EFA networking tech to communicate seamlessly across Nvidia's MGX racks. ..."

I think what Amazon farmed out to Intel was one of their network accelerators. But they certainly are in the business of designing high performance themselves.


Anthropic's Claude is running on an all Amazon Super site.


Microsoft's Maia 100 are running very substantive loads at Azure now. Maia 200 is suppose to be on Intel

Broadcomm also has flirted with Intel's fab for fabrication.

Nvidia dropped all this money on Intel and is not going to use the fab at all? Probably not.


Extrmely likely that the multiple chip package that Intel/Nvidia talk about that is packed on in an Intel fab with some variant of Foveros.

Faster in every way than Nvidia (or Apple) isn't a serious metric of what is high performance silicon.
 
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Leaving or threatening to leave? quick search turns up some very new Gurman rumblings within last day or so. Is there something older than that? Gurman's rumors seems to be more like 'match this competitive offer I got and I'd like some new terms'.

That would start to smell a bit like the new designate future CEO is has some friction with folks and folks are not happy.

Srouji also reportedly bristled at chasing more custom chips for glasses/Vision Pro. If Apple puts the dies onto multiple fab processes also then being the head of all of this looks more like 'management" (lots more people spread over lots more 'mature' projects) than of "management of technology".



Depends. If Apple Silicon is going for bigger and broader set of products they may need a better person to manage the set up and more lower very good tech leads over the subset of areas.

For example, someone like Jim Keller couldn't run a place like AMD or Intel well. That is not his wheelhouse.

Part of Apple's past problem is that they promoted Jony Ive into a high level executive and handed him too much stuff. ( Peter principle. One promotion too many. ). Ive picked a dubious person to run Human Computer Interaction in part because he himself was a dubious choice to have influence over HCI.
yea, just checked on those rumors about Srouji ... he's 61 so I am in real doubt that he would truly entertain the idea of running as a CEO in a different company, plus, there was rumor that he was considered for Intel's CEO role back when ... also, the reports read " Srouji talked to Cook and some colleagues about this ...", no way someone at that level/position would talk to colleagues, that just doesn't happen ... Gurman throwing things out on the all again ...
 
Small Rant: Every time one of these stories drops, headlines like “Apple’s Return to Intel” make me wince a little. Sure, the article eventually clarifies that Intel isn’t designing anything here, but the headline alone frames it as some dramatic reversal, like Apple suddenly bailed on Apple Silicon and went crawling back.

For people who actually follow this stuff, we know better. We read past the headline, we care about the architecture, the supply chain, the roadmap, all of it. But for everyone else, it sends the wrong signal.

When Apple used Intel chips before, they were genuinely dependent on Intel’s roadmap, stuck moving only as fast as Intel could innovate. That’s not remotely what’s happening now. This time, Intel is simply one of several manufacturers building Apple’s chips. Apple still owns the design, the direction, and the pace. The headline just doesn’t reflect that reality.
Exactly - so annoying, and ultimately click bait because they know it's a distinction that matters a great deal. The design chops and IP are in large measure Apple (based on ARM licensing) in sharp contrast to their use of x86-64 and PowerPC with IBM before that. Which is not to put down the talent and skills entailed in manufacturing chips, or ARM. I remember how stunning it was when they switched to X86, and then to Apple Silicon.

A long and winding road...

I'm still waiting on a 128-bit Mac so I can finally get some real work done.
 
It seems to me more than a little risky… Intel’s track record on delivering advanced nodes has not been great in the last decade. And a decade is a long time in staffing and HR terms.

But this is potentially good for ASML’s share price.
 
Intel is expected to begin supplying some Mac and iPad chips in a few years, and the latest rumor claims the partnership might extend to the iPhone.
.......................
Apple reaching a chip supply deal with Intel would boost its reliance on an American manufacturing company and help to diversify its supply chain.
It seems that Apple needs to have a deal with Intel, not the other way around. Apple may also owe Intel an apology in a sense, even though companies are not human and lack souls.
 
yea, just checked on those rumors about Srouji ... he's 61 so I am in real doubt that he would truly entertain the idea of running as a CEO in a different company, plus, there was rumor that he was considered for Intel's CEO role back when ... also, the reports read " Srouji talked to Cook and some colleagues about this ...", no way someone at that level/position would talk to colleagues, that just doesn't happen ... Gurman throwing things out on the all again ...

I suspect someone might be offering him a "Jim Keller" like role for a narrow, but interesting (to him) project rather than CEO. Wrap that project up in 4 years and ta-da 65 and retire. If so offering him a 'higher title' and more bureaucracy is probably the wrong move.

9to5mac.com has this tidbit.

"... o retain him, Apple has offered him ‘substantial’ pay packages and more responsibilities. They’ve floated the possibility of promoting him to Chief Technology Officer, making him Apple’s second most powerful executive. Reportedly, Srouji also ‘would prefer not to work under a different CEO.’ ..."

You should talk to you cohorts if the cohorts are planning to make changes that you really do not think would be good for the group you spent tons of time and effort building. They can take it or not. But if Apple is readjusting the transition roles then they should have a group discussion at the upper levels about what may or may not change with the transition. Large enough group ... some of them likely don't get along. If move the 'pieces' around the dynamics are going to change. Might as well start to sort that out before transition is official.

The Intel rumors never made any sense. What Intel needed is someone is a good 'bull excerment' detector to carve out all the fat , pork , arrogance and cruft that had built up internal to Intel over the years. It wasn't a 'tech' problem. It is more an organization/people problem.
 
It seems that Apple needs to have a deal with Intel, not the other way around. Apple may also owe Intel an apology in a sense, even though companies are not human and lack souls.

a Deal ( 'contract' ) has to be agreed to by two parties. It isn't a one-way thing either way. Apology? While there have been rumors/reports that Apple wasn't happy with Intel for x86-64 Macs, in large public meetings they really have never said something like "Intel sucks". It has always been something along the lines of "we think we have a better solution so we switched". Demonstrate why think it is better and move on. No 'they are bad, so we dumped them' only this new thing is 'better'. There is not much to apologize for in that context. Intel just got beat in a 'bake off' competition.

If anyone is apologizing it would be Intel for grossly overpromising and seriously under delivering. Intel didn't just loose Apple as a customers. They are loosing marketshare in every major category they historically competed in.
The direct access fab business is new , but they got that overall Intel reputation cloud hanging over them also. They are going to have to very carefully build trust.
 
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It seems to me more than a little risky… Intel’s track record on delivering advanced nodes has not been great in the last decade. And a decade is a long time in staffing and HR terms.

How much of that is process and how much of that is design is hard to tell. Sapphire Rapids Server chip went throught 12 steppings to get to a decent launch.


No way that is all fab issues. The design is likely partially wonked also. Intel needed 'E cores' mainly because the P-cores were gigantic. Intel had their own internal only design tools.

There was a wide variety of workaround and hacks on both sides of the equations that shoveled lots of poop under the rug. That is likely more so bad "Generals" than bad "rank and file troops" mixed in with some excessive 'incest' .
'incest' doesn't take a very long time to fix once agrees to stop doing it. And fixing the bad general problem takes more training.

The '5 nodes in 4 years' ( 7 , 4 , 3, 20A , 18A ) should/could have been decent training if cut things off when things went sideways but did enough to learn ( and just choose to write the sunk costs off).

Also a decade is not so long would have lost everyone from before things went into the toilet. Lost more than few, but probably not everyone.

Apple isn't picking up any of those listed 5 nodes. 18AP is a increment on 18A ( it is 18A with improvements after the bumpy ride). And 14A is after that. It is not a sure thing , but not highly risky either. ( can send some test wafers through 18A to check if Intel is being highly deceptive or not).

But this is potentially good for ASML’s share price.

14A doesn't necessarily mean that ASML High-NA has loads of long term buys coming real soon. Intel maybe about to take some lumps if deferring out High-NA rollout for production.

There is no huge shift from ASML outlook here that isn't dominated by AI bubble hype spending. Apple asking Intel to use ASML machines to do X number wafers there or asking TSMC to do the same X number wafers isn't really more ASML machines in use.
 
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I wouldn't be overly surprised if Apple buys Intel in the foreseeable future :rolleyes:
Sure, why not? Netflix is buying Warner Brothers, which does or at one time did own AOL, Time (all of them), the Atlanta Braves, Hawks, and Thrashers sports teams, CNN, TNT, HBO, Cinemax, DC entertainment, Six Flags, Sea World, BET, Discovery Channel and all its pieces/parts, and what looks like hundreds of more companies.

By comparison, Apple buying Intel would be a simple affair, and probably could be written up on a stained bar napkin!
When are they gonna get that cancer called Tim Cook out of that company!
I don't know...Apple's stock price is at all time highs. You probably should look at what "all time high" actually means.
It’s been a good run Apple if this is what you end up doing because many of us are probably not gonna stick with your brand
You're just overreacting now. Calm down. I recommend some nice calming yoga music for you. And get off social media. ;)
I second the triumphant return of the Angstrom Å and its natural superiority over symbols without halos.
Although my iPhone and iPads probably make it easy, I'm basically lazy. I have no interest in learning how to type the Angstrom "A" on my other devices.
Accurate and informative headlines are a lost art. Today, it is all clickbait, hot takes, and engagement farming.

Normally, I would discount this because this is a “rumors” site, but you even see this problem on professional “journalistic” sites as well. We’ve all become a slave to the algorithm.
Oh it's too late for that already. We ARE the algorithm. Surprise!
They will need to make a judgement on the savings against tariffs vs the quality and brand impact.

Saves billions per year but the lower end devices run a few degrees warmer and 5% slower, that's probably going to be ok for the overwhelming majority who don't surf Macrumors in order to find things to be annoyed about.

I expect it will be "close enough" to TSMC quality, all things considered.
Yours is a reasonable reaction. Thank you.
INTC 41.72 today
That is unhelpful because it means nothing without other information.
They? That'll happen when "they" is no longer interested in Apple having 1+ Billion active and repeat customers, and no longer wanting Apple to be one of the most successful consumer tech companies in the world.
^ This guy is not wrong!

Apple was almost certainly pictched using Intel foundary before Trump was President.
...

They (Apple) want some control on pricing and availability. And very often want more than one supplier.
It only makes sense.
Deal ( 'contract' ) has to be agreed to by two parties. It isn't a one-way thing either way.
This right here is not just the key to doing business. It's the main requirement for Capitalism to actually "be" Capitalism: Both parties, buyer and seller, must be able to each feel that he is getting more out of the deal than he is putting into the deal. And the other main tenet is that buyers and sellers be allowed to have their own best interests at heart.

So if Intel says it can make the chips at a certain price, and Apple is satisfied that the contract holds Intel to certain performance requirements (the chips must work, be reliable, ascribe to the contracted price, and be delivered on schedule), then who's business is it to get in the way of that? Nobody's business.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, we hope that Intel doesn't screw this up. Because that would have a distinctly unfavorable outcome for both companies, but maybe worse for Intel.

Capitalism is NOT Capitalism if it requires somebody to enter into a deal unwillingly.
 
Yes, just like they picked up the Intel modem project I could see them purchasing, not the entirety of Intel, but some or all of its Fab capacity. They don't want intel's designs, they might want their fabs.
Why? Apple can just build their own fab. The only reason to buy Intel is if Intel dies and they can buy it up for five cents on the dollar, and they deem that a good value. Otherwise, you're better off building a fab from scratch with your own specifications in mind.

Like others here, Intel needs to just die. They are garbage. Always have been and always will be. There is no reason, only than politics, to give Intel any business at all.
 
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In the very near future TSMC may not be a viable partner due to outside events that won't be the fault of TSMC or Apple. Intel being able to step in/step up will be crucial for supplies to the West.

If they can deliver a quality product, there's no reason not to.
TSMC is building a fab in Arizona. What do you think is going to happen to Arizona?
 
They’re not going to switch to Intel x86 processors. They’d simply have Intel make (fab) processors that Apple designs.
History shows that US companies lost the memory business due to poor quality. Intel lost the processor war due to heat and lack of efficiency. What on this Earth makes you believe that Intel can suddenly best TSMC? I can think of no reason.
 
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TSMC is building a fab in Arizona. What do you think is going to happen to Arizona?

Almost all of TSMC R&D is done in Taiwan . If all of that goes offline for extremely long time then the AZ can still do what they are currently doing but there are very likely not going to be do anything new …. Or lots older which is also needed. Also several secondary tool makers are all in Taiwan also.

TSMC more than several Fabs in Taiwan and they all disappears has consequences . AZ won’t mute those cosequenes. There will not be enough wafer supply for all the customers . Hand waving Apple is special and that they will get everything they want is pure fantasy.

The fab in AZ will be about 12-24 months behind the newer processes which are formed elsewhere.
 
Apple reaching a chip supply deal with Intel would boost its reliance on an American manufacturing company and help to diversify its supply chain.

Will there be reliable iPhone, iPad, and MacBook assembly factories in the Americas? Otherwise, making the chips in America, exporting them to China for assembly, and re-importing them back to America as finished products will be tragic.

It’s a shorter trip from Taiwan (TSMC) to mainland China or Vietnam. But China and America are literally on opposite sides of the planet.
 
Yes, just like they picked up the Intel modem project I could see them purchasing, not the entirety of Intel, but some or all of its Fab capacity. They don't want intel's designs, they might want their fabs.

Apple doesn’t want Intel or TSMC fabs anymore than they want Foxconn/Hanhai’s factories. Apple doesn’t want to actually make anything besides a subset of prototypes. Apple wants the contractors to have all the manufacturing overhead. Also loose all the shared R&D costs get by time sharing with other customers for the manufacturers’ equipment and internal services.


The other major problem is most of Intel doesn’t want to sell either. ( Apple is not going to try to overpay to such a ridiculous amount to move them to the sell position )

Never mind that Intel doesn’t have the correct equipment to make what they currently use. Would spend billlions and stilll be buying form TSMC for many years .
 
Why? Apple can just build their own fab.

It is far more than just building a structure and tossing some equipment inside. Apple doesn’t have the people nor the skills to run a fab . Also doesn’t have the dozens of skilled supplier relationships that a pragmatically fab needs. ( if just physically seize a fab building and skilled people insider , but the suppliers all hit their ‘off’ switch on their relationship …you are dead in the water) Nor if shooting for the most advanced process possible nor will Apple have the money to keep up. Fabs get billions of dollars more expensive each generation. That shows no signs of stopping . The number of companies in leading fab businesses has been shrinking for decades in part because of it gets more expensive every generation. ( fab businesses have to aggregate n more customers to cover cost of building the new fabs. More expensive pragmatically means more aggregation. )

Apple also churns their processors every year. At the moment Apple is shipping product with TSMC N5 , N4 , N3B , and N3P in them . In the future the product line will be likely be spread out just as far. One fab building inst going to make all fours. Manufacturing lined are likely different for at least the first and last of that spread.




The only reason to buy Intel is if Intel dies and they can buy it up for five cents on the dollar, and they deem that a good value. Otherwise, you're better off building a fab from scratch with your own specifications in mind.

Neither one of those situations is viable long term .


Intel was suppose to share gathering external customers a decade ago . They ignored the issue and ar3 suffering loads now . The notion of sell the fabs off and run away as fast as possible was super shallow Wall St hand waving .
 
Interesting facts, more or less.
The CEO of Intel is Lip-Bu Tan is a Malaysian-born Chinese.
The CEO of TSMC is Che-Chia Wei a Taiwanese-born Chinese.
The CEO of AMD is Lisa Tzwu-Fang Su a Taiwanese-born Chinese.
They don't need English as the communicating language.
 
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History shows that US companies lost the memory business due to poor quality. Intel lost the processor war due to heat and lack of efficiency. What on this Earth makes you believe that Intel can suddenly best TSMC? I can think of no reason.
I can't follow your logic -- Intel designed chip runs hot. Apple designed chip does not. Intel making Apple designed chip, you say, is going to run hot just because an Intel factory made it? And why does Intel have to be better than TSMC? I can think of no reason.
 
Why? Apple can just build their own fab. The only reason to buy Intel is if Intel dies and they can buy it up for five cents on the dollar, and they deem that a good value. Otherwise, you're better off building a fab from scratch with your own specifications in mind.

Like others here, Intel needs to just die. They are garbage. Always have been and always will be. There is no reason, only than politics, to give Intel any business at all.
Other people here need to just die? :eek:

I hope you mean "like others here believe..."

Apple is not in the manufacturing business. Is there an Apple factory anywhere that you know of?
 
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You have to have first been somewhere to ‘return’ there. Apple was NEVER an Intel fab customer. So they can’t be a returning customer if this would be the first time.


If you want to arm flapping , hand wave at the overall corporate blobs , Apple runs a large datacenters. They have bought zero Intel data center gear over last couple of years ( no network cards , no CPUs , no o service support , etc )? Additionally, given Apple has to currently service and support Intel Macs that highly unlikely. Apple would had to drop Intel from every possible corporate purchases to become a customer who totally left . Again, to ‘return’ a precondition is that you leave. One foot in the doorway of a house and come back in isn’t ‘returning’ .


“Returning as a major customer “ is also an insertion. The author of the headline assumed that Apple 100% left as an Intel customer.

That said it is relatively common for ‘front page’ Macrumors articles to be written “National Inquirer” style . Headlines, skewed summaries, or anyhtihing that will spark high response rates and larger adviews is par for the course. Objective accuracy isn’t the top criteria.
TLDR..."Returning" to Intel doesn't require Apple and Intel do the same business they did before. Apple stopped doing business with Intel and now Apple and Intel may return to doing business, just not the same business. Not hard.
 
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There is a lot of anti-intel sentiment around here. Apple isn’t using intel’s chips. They would use their fab. Apple helped drive (and fund) innovation at TSMC, and that has knocked intel off their high horse. Intel is fighting to exist at this point and it’s a good move for apple to push to keep advanced semiconductor manufacturing in the US.
 
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Except for the fact that Microsoft never saved Apple you're absolutely correct.
You probably haven’t lived long enough to see it… try widening your field of view:



I hope you are old enough to query a search engine for more.
 
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When are they gonna get that cancer called Tim Cook out of that company!

Intel is the main reason they started making their own chips.

Why would you go back to the same worthless trash company that can’t adhere to thermal thresholds causing overheating repeatedly

That’s one of those companies that just should’ve been left to die

It’s been a good run Apple if this is what you end up doing because many of us are probably not gonna stick with your brand

You're leaving out important details. Previously, Apple was using "Intel-designed" chips, which weren't meeting Apple's requirements. In this case, it would be Intel manufacturing "Apple-designed" chips. Very different situation. If Intel can't do so at Apple's specifications and cost, they would be out. Simple as that.
 
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