Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple's Royalty Payments to Nokia Estimated at $608 Million Up Front, ~$138 Million Per Quarter
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Actually that is Apple's new logo...as they swooped down and ate flesh from another body.
Apple is a great company with great products. People expect perfection from them but, alas, they are made of people and people make mistakes.
They did not win, they settled, major difference.
A lot of times people settle to avoid the hassle and costly trial.
This seems to be a fair deal, and for everyone who thinks that Apple lost, well, think about it this way, five years ago Apple did not make a single phone, and now they are butting heads against NOKIA, the world's biggest cellphone manufacturer. That speaks volumes
Over my head? No - not in the slightest. I understand LTD's point, perspective and bias 100 percent. I am not suggesting that LTD's line of thought are incorrect itself in regards to elements of this situation. Just because I simplified my summation of the situation doesn't mean I lack sophistication or more specifically, the sophistication to understand his point.
But thanks for the snap judgment there...
They should already have factored it into the iPhone retail price. They have known (and accepted) they would have to pay a licensing fee since the first iPhone came out in 2007, the only issue was how much they had to pay.
Knowing Apple they probably factored in a price at the high end of what Nokia were demanding and are now left with a healthy surplus.
I'm not sure (in this case) what their mistake was.
Or are you referring to something else?
Wirelessly posted (Iphone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)
Thank you for putting this "debate" in perspective. Everyone is jumping on LTD, but in this circumstance, what he's saying about apple and nokia's claims is correct. Where he got a little weird was in claiming nokia willfully was tanking their business.
Due to the fact we don't know what nokia was originally asking for or are even sure what apple is paying now, anyone claiming either side "won" this lawsuit is not actually paying close attention. The biggest news we know of from all of this is that the dispute is finialuzed and no longer looms overhead.
Gasu E. said:
Thank you for putting this "debate" in perspective. Everyone is jumping on LTD, but in this circumstance, what he's saying about apple and nokia's claims is correct. Where he got a little weird was in claiming nokia willfully was tanking their business.
Due to the fact we don't know what nokia was originally asking for or are even sure what apple is paying now, anyone claiming either side "won" this lawsuit is not actually paying close attention. The biggest news we know of from all of this is that the dispute is finialuzed and no longer looms overhead.
This website is called MacRumors and not MacFacts for a very good reason. They get things wrong from time to time. But that's ok in the speculation game. Just remember to take everything you read here as rumour and not fact until independently (ie. someone other than M-R) proves it then you'll be ok.
So anything MacRomors post up I read for the entertainment value only. And if I want to know if something posted here is a fact I'll look elsewhere for said proof.
Actually - in legal terms - a judgment for the plaintiff is a win. You can view the terms as equitable to not - but a win is a win. YOU might think since Apple is possibly paying less - that they one. It's semantics. Whether a team loses by 10 points or 20 - it's still a loss.
And you're right on that point. They settled. Which doesn't equate to a win. Unlike some posters - I can admit when I'm mistaken. That being said - it's a significant settlement for Nokia on monies they either wouldn't have seen (for a long time) or of lesser value.
I've been reading MacRumors for several years now, though I only started posting when the iPad was announced. It sure seems to me that there are a lot more posters here who cheer on anything that seems to go against Apple now. I chalk that up to Apple's success over the past few years reaching the attention of everyone. Success breeds jealosy, and we are seeing that now.
So Apple "loses" to Nokia? Cheers abound here. Weird.
So Apple "loses" to Nokia? Cheers abound here. Weird.
Sure they can... unless they sign an agreement to license it for a standard like GSM. (Apple was refusing to pay because Nokia was demanding a much higher royalty payment then from anyone else.)
If Nokia won this suit, then why aren't other companies forced to pay apple for their technology? Their multitouch? Their designs? Their OS?
Can someone explain that to me?
Nokia's hardware is actually pretty good. The camera on the Nokia N8 has still yet to be surpassed by any other cell phone after 6 months, which is a long time in the mobile world.
Secondly, the batteries of the nokia phones are powerful enough to last a day, average use. This is unlike a lot of Android phones.
Nokia is in a transition phase, of course their profits / turnover are going to dip. This occurs when a company goes through transition. Nokia will come out the other side on a good footing. Nokia's brand name will help gain WP7 momentium.
Secondly, the batteries of the nokia phones are powerful enough to last a day, average use. This is unlike a lot of Android phones.
Nokia is in a transition phase, of course their profits / turnover are going to dip. This occurs when a company goes through transition. Nokia will come out the other side on a good footing. Nokia's brand name will help gain WP7 momentium.
Wirelessly posted (Iphone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)
No one else uses their OS. The designs are the basis for the samsung suit which on the surface appears to hold a lot of water, but forum commentors keep just reading the first line of the suit and claim apple is being ridiculous. The multitouch patents are the basis for the suits against HTC et all I believe, but I'm less informed on those suits and could be misinterpreting.
This is a reply to joemama, sorry for not quoting.
No one else uses their OS. The designs are the basis for the samsung suit which on the surface appears to hold a lot of water, but forum commentors keep just reading the first line of the suit and claim apple is being ridiculous. The multitouch patents are the basis for the suits against HTC et all I believe, but I'm less informed on those suits and could be misinterpreting.
This is a reply to joemama, sorry for not quoting.
Referencing a previously published rumor (any rumor) doesn't make it a fact (except on Fox News).
That's what happens when you're hated by an entire forum. It's impossible to take this guy seriously.
If it isn't over your head then I'm not sure what excuse you can use. It's evident from your posts that you don't understand what LTD is saying, nor what is being said in the macrumors news posts. Neither does wikus.
Props to the guys that are just now popping in here and adding some rational posts to the thread.
It has also led to all the ad homs against anyone who is even the slightest bit positive toward Apple. I personally prefer if the discussion would be about the content of people's arguments and not their preferences, but this is the state of Internet forums these days. Trolls abound.
It wouldn't surprise me if various companies send paid shills here, too...
Depends on the patents. Nokia has patented their technologies so they have a legal right to ask for licensing fees from other companies using their patents. If Apple does not own patent for multitouch, they have no right to sue anyone else using multitouch, as they don't own multitouch technology. I have yet to see a product from a name brand to utilize Apple's design or OS.
It's very hard to say anything as we don't know what patents Apple holds and even if we did, it's even harder to say if someone is breaking them. That is why they are fighting in the court, as it sounds like they don't know it either.
Yeah... this was no mistake. This was a planned "legal negotiation" of the patent license.
I'm sure Apple knew they needed a license or we're informed they did by Nokia and Nokia probably said pay us $X's. Apple probably said no, we'll pay $Y's and Nokia said "no" to that. So Apple took the legal negotiation route. Dispute the patent. Hope that you can dilute the claims and lower the cost.
I would bet that the cost came in lower than it was originally and Apple is happy. And I bet Nokia is happy too.
People should not take all law suits and patent disputes as a negative. Sometimes it's necessary to get a fair price. Obviously a lot of money is at steak here, so a couple million to explore options is not all that bad.
Android is next for sure... Nokia is not going to hold still now that they won with Apple... they have a strong patent (its defendable) now and I'm sure are going to defend it.
I'm sure Apple knew they needed a license or we're informed they did by Nokia and Nokia probably said pay us $X's. Apple probably said no, we'll pay $Y's and Nokia said "no" to that. So Apple took the legal negotiation route. Dispute the patent. Hope that you can dilute the claims and lower the cost.
I would bet that the cost came in lower than it was originally and Apple is happy. And I bet Nokia is happy too.
People should not take all law suits and patent disputes as a negative. Sometimes it's necessary to get a fair price. Obviously a lot of money is at steak here, so a couple million to explore options is not all that bad.
Android is next for sure... Nokia is not going to hold still now that they won with Apple... they have a strong patent (its defendable) now and I'm sure are going to defend it.
You neglected one very important fact. That prior to any filings, the two companies had attempted to work out a deal. Nokia was tired of Apple's position and took it to court. Your extreme dislike of Apple makes you say this is Apple's fault, when in fact it is one of the most common scenarios in big business. Try relaxing for 10 seconds, it might help.
Please explain this. I would like to understand how cash sitting in a bank should be taxed. I'll pass your opinion on to FASB and the IRS so we can all share, too.
I don't get all these 'Oh Apple lost, shame on them for trying to copy other peoples patents' comments. That was never the point of this case.
Apple knew they had to pay royalties and were more than prepared to do so. The issue was Nokia wanted to charge Apple more than they charge other manufacturers for the same patents. Quite rightfully Apple challenged this.
Whilst it looks on paper that Apple lost because they paid out, what's to say Nokia didn't back down and lower their demands therefore Apple happily paid the money they knew they owed and were prepared to pay?
Apple knew they had to pay royalties and were more than prepared to do so. The issue was Nokia wanted to charge Apple more than they charge other manufacturers for the same patents. Quite rightfully Apple challenged this.
Whilst it looks on paper that Apple lost because they paid out, what's to say Nokia didn't back down and lower their demands therefore Apple happily paid the money they knew they owed and were prepared to pay?
