I'm kind of saying the same thing.
Yes, it can supplement a PC, even in the business world it can. But it cannot, as it stands right now. REPLACE said PC. A time may come when it can, but as of now. It cannot.
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Apple's Share of U.S. PC Shipments Rises to 12% in 2Q 2012
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I'm kind of saying the same thing.
Yes, it can supplement a PC, even in the business world it can. But it cannot, as it stands right now. REPLACE said PC. A time may come when it can, but as of now. It cannot.
That's not the same thing at all. That's the exact opposite of my point. A secondary PC is still a PC. If an iPad replaces a secondary PC, it has replaced a PC. Not simply supplemented a PC.
Alright, I see your point. Though at least in all my work experience. We've never really had a " secondary PC " . We've had a high end laptop, and a workstation.
Using that logic, cars should be counted as horses.
If only we had professional market analyst's back then.
But his point still holds. Market definitions evolve over time. And market analysts aren't doing their job if they ignore significant factors in their analysis of an industry over arbitrary definitions.
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If you had two PCs, one is your primary PC and one is your secondary PC.
If only we had professional market analyst's back then.
But his point still holds. Market definitions evolve over time. And market analysts aren't doing their job if they ignore significant factors in their analysis of an industry over arbitrary definitions.
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Yeah, but for example. The iPad can't replace the Desktop ( dur ). And I guess you could say the laptop is a secondary PC, but its just as important as the desktop, so maybe you could consider them both primarys? And the iPad can't replace the laptop either.
And here's where I disagree with you. I think there is an extremely large number of enterprise employees who use laptops mainly to access data on the go and give presentations. Two things that an iPad can do very well. Of course, they do most of the heavy lifting on their primary desktop machine.
I love all my children the same.
Depends, for me. An iPad would probably explode if I tried to run my software on it.
Well, your right in that an iPad can be super useful to access data and all that.
But, it lacks real multi tasking, and a keyboard. Which can be a huge issue for a HUGE number of users. Because nothing sucks more when your on the go, and need to respond to an email, or type up a decently long report, or put a presentation together on the go. Try doing that with the touch screen.
I think the Surface is trying to address the no keyboard/track pad thing.
And I think if it does good, we might see an ' ipad pro " that runs OSX with decent hardware specs, I'd be interested in that for the same reason I'd be interested in the surface.
FOr personal use that is. Tablets are years away from not melting with my software.
Sure, but if the opportunity ever came up, which child would you consider replacing with an iPad? ----------
And that would be important if we were only talking about you.
None of those things are hard to do on an iPad. And nothing is stopping you from using a keyboard with an iPad.
I think the Surface is trying to address the cramming-the-full-version-of-windows-into-a-tablet-so-you-will-require-a-keyboard/trackpad-at-some-point thing.
I'm not sure what the difference between that and the future of the MacBook Air will be.
But, again, we were talking about business users in general. Not you in particular.
Using that logic, cars should be counted as horses.
Car and horse are both vehicles.
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Again, just because it does not do what you want doesn't mean everyone else in the world feels the same way because that is clearly not the case. You are certainly entitled to your opinion and no one is forcing you to use an iPad. But the trend is that iPad, not tablet, adoption is growing while PC/Laptop are shrinking. The point you fail to see is that those two events are directly related.
None of them. I just sold my 1st Generation iPad and am replacing it with a MacBook Air 11"
That is times 1000. So apple shipped 1 million nine hundred ten thousand macs. Or 1,910,000 Macs Whichever format you prefer.
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And that would be important if we were only talking about you.
I am the only person on the planet ya know
Writing a long report on a touch screen? Ugh. No thanks.
Yeah, there are keyboards. for the ipad, but I've yet to find a good one.
And lets be honest, without office, that can be an issue, Office is THE standard.
Another thing, multi tasking is a HUGE issue, sometimes you like to be able to look at something your writing an update/report on while your typing said report.
The surface is addressing a couple of things.
1: Built in keyboard, and that keyboard seems very good. I have not used it yet of course. But from what I've been reading, its a VERY good keyboard, which might make some iPad keyboard makers step it up ( I've heard this from Apple guys, and used a couple iPad keyboards, most of them are terrible )
2: That keyboard is built into the smart cover thingy or whatever its called, and the tablet itself easily detaches, I like that a lot.
3: Full OS/X86 in the pro. I think this is HUGE putting a " full OS " on this thing, with an X86 processor ( I think the ARM will be much more for consumers ). Why?
4: Having a full Windows OS with an X86 processor is huge, because that means it will run a vast majority of windows software, both first and third party right out of the box. And some business's that put millions of dollars into big Windows Systems and software packages, would love to be able to use that software on their new tablets.
5: Full OS isn't " crammed " its not like the tablet itself can't handle it. Its got VERY good hardware for what it is, thats an area the iPad really needs to work on, its performance is lacking.
I think the Surface is bringing something new to the table, and judging by my personal conversations, and hell e ven the surface thread on this website, its something TONS of people are interested in.
None of that is a Diss against the iPad, I do know its a great little device.
But I do think the surface is the first device to really blur the hole tablet vs laptop thing. On one hand, its like any other tablet. But on the other hand, you dock it back into its smart case, and boom, its like having a full on small laptop, because it has the hardware power and imput devices of one.
The MacBook Air is an awesome little Laptop, I would love one if I had well, some sort of use for it.
However, the Macbook air is not as portable as an iPad or a surface, not can it transform into a tablet or stay as a " laptop " like a surface can.
I really do wonder if Apple will pull what Tablet PC's did in the early 00s, and have a touch screen top, with a detachable keyboard. That would be neat.
Apple's marketshare is in some sense much bigger in terms f significance than the raw numbers.
Many PCs from the likes of Lenovo and Dell are little more than 'dumb terminals' shovelled by the millions into offices. They do little more than run a database, which is increasingly likely to be done though a web-based interface.
By contrast, most Macs are sold to active consumer and professional users who buy software and accessories and other products. Thus, the 'Mac market' is a very lucrative one.
5-10 years ago it was exotic to see a Mac laptop on a train or in a cafe. Now here in the UK you'd think Apple has 80%+ of the market by that measure.
Many PCs from the likes of Lenovo and Dell are little more than 'dumb terminals' shovelled by the millions into offices. They do little more than run a database, which is increasingly likely to be done though a web-based interface.
By contrast, most Macs are sold to active consumer and professional users who buy software and accessories and other products. Thus, the 'Mac market' is a very lucrative one.
5-10 years ago it was exotic to see a Mac laptop on a train or in a cafe. Now here in the UK you'd think Apple has 80%+ of the market by that measure.
Full Circle
My very first computer was a Mac Performa with a whoping 25Mhz CPU and 8MB of ram. I have fond and not so fond memories of that computer. It was very lousey with games, even Doom (yes, the original Doom) needed to be ran in a window the size of a stamp for smooth game play. But it opened the door for computing for me and my family.
Shortly after that Apple was struggling and PC was soaring with Windows 95 and 98 laying the road which the evil empire stands even to this day. This is when I shunned Apple. The very thought of Apple products made me scoff at it's pathetic existance and how blind it's users were. This was the old apple.
Everything changed in 2004. I was building a buget friendly gaming rig. Athlon 64 2.2Ghz, 1GB Ram, Geforce 6800GT. It was great for 6 months. Then it got old, and slow. I realised that PC graphics got too old to fast for me to keep up. The next PC i built was not gamer's rig.
I got my first ipod classic, this was the first apple prouct I owned since the performa. It rocked (litteraly and figuratively). My distane for apple fooled me into getting a Creative Labs Zen juke box, which I thought was good untill I got my ipod. When I look back I realised how crappy that Creative jukebox was. I upgraded to ipod tuch, which ultimately led to my iphone 4.
I have played with MAC OS as a VM on Virtual Box (google it) off and on. i really liked OS X and how it felt better than Windows. I eventualy got a mac mini.
The full circle has been completed. What's interesting is my setup is very erriely similar to the old performa. Computer + external CD-rom drive connected to a monitor.
Mac is gaining steam. It's slowly encroching on PC market share. When Windows 8 comes out it, MAC will see a very rapid expansion in sales and market share. Windows 8 is just that bad.
My very first computer was a Mac Performa with a whoping 25Mhz CPU and 8MB of ram. I have fond and not so fond memories of that computer. It was very lousey with games, even Doom (yes, the original Doom) needed to be ran in a window the size of a stamp for smooth game play. But it opened the door for computing for me and my family.
Shortly after that Apple was struggling and PC was soaring with Windows 95 and 98 laying the road which the evil empire stands even to this day. This is when I shunned Apple. The very thought of Apple products made me scoff at it's pathetic existance and how blind it's users were. This was the old apple.
Everything changed in 2004. I was building a buget friendly gaming rig. Athlon 64 2.2Ghz, 1GB Ram, Geforce 6800GT. It was great for 6 months. Then it got old, and slow. I realised that PC graphics got too old to fast for me to keep up. The next PC i built was not gamer's rig.
I got my first ipod classic, this was the first apple prouct I owned since the performa. It rocked (litteraly and figuratively). My distane for apple fooled me into getting a Creative Labs Zen juke box, which I thought was good untill I got my ipod. When I look back I realised how crappy that Creative jukebox was. I upgraded to ipod tuch, which ultimately led to my iphone 4.
I have played with MAC OS as a VM on Virtual Box (google it) off and on. i really liked OS X and how it felt better than Windows. I eventualy got a mac mini.
The full circle has been completed. What's interesting is my setup is very erriely similar to the old performa. Computer + external CD-rom drive connected to a monitor.
Mac is gaining steam. It's slowly encroching on PC market share. When Windows 8 comes out it, MAC will see a very rapid expansion in sales and market share. Windows 8 is just that bad.
It's not just Zune. Microsoft's recent track record is just shaky. Windows Mobile quickly lost its lead against iOS and Android and was abandoned, Windows Phone 7 has been a big failure in comparison to the initial hype, Bing has been an endless money-sucking pit, the original tablet PC effort failed to pick up any sort of significant steam, Play for Sure and Zune were an obvious failure, and there was that unmitigated disaster in Kin.
Other than in their trenched Windows/Office/Enterprise fields and XBox (even this is debatable considering how many billions Microsoft had to spend on it), Microsoft hasn't fared all that well recently and that's why so many are calling Ballmer's head. Windows 8 might do great with tablets, but there is no longer aura of dominance in Microsoft when it comes to the new platforms. Plus the fact they are charge an exceptionally low price for initial Windows 8 upgrades should tell us something about their anxiety.
You are just being myopic. Any bluetooth keyboard works with an iPad. Including Apple's excellent bluetooth keyboard.
I'm sure the keyboard that no one has tried will be excellent. But it sure looks great in a demo!
Microsoft has been trying to put a desktop OS on a tablet for more than a decade. This isn't new. Very few people wanted that. The iPad outsold 10 years of Windows tablets in less than a week.
Absolutely.
If you ignore the previous 10 years of Windows tablets.
Sure, but I think the reason the iPad is popular is that it isn't trying to be a laptop. Meanwhile the Surface can convert into a laptop that you can't use in your lap!
Haha, thank you. I was actually too lazy to switch it on and look things up. It's the Graphite Tower from 1999.
Time flies
True. except that an iPad and a Windows Tablet(Past or Present) are for different use cases.
iPad has the sell of a tablet but the OS of a smartphone
MS Surface has the shell of a tablet but the OS of a desktop/laptop
I can do alot of things the same way on both(and sometimes perhaps easier on the iPad) but I have more options with MS Surface..
It doesn't have to replace all PCs to effectively replace them as the dominant product in the market.
I know of a couple IBM mainframes still in service around my city. Every other business uses PCs, x86 rack servers, or mobile devices. Those mainframes were not 100% replaced.
There are still a few rich little girls around the county who stable and ride horses. Everybody else switched to cars decades or centuries ago. Those pretty horsies were not 100% replaced.
I say this begrudgingly but I am going to replace my Macbook with another Mac"Book". Apple can at least count on that sale from me.
I'm not sure why you said "except". I agree completely.
You say "OS of a smartphone", I say "OS of a tablet" or "OS of a mobile device" or "OS designed to be used primarily for multitouch input". Microsoft is still trying to put an OS designed for a desktop/laptop in a tablet.
I'm sure this iteration will sell better, especially in enterprise, because Microsoft has put much more effort into completing the touch interface. I'm just not sure what problem the surface solves that isn't better addressed by an ultrabook or it's successor.
(To me, a kickstand is an acknowledgement of a design compromise that was too big to ignore.
)
Actually, this is good. It is getting people who normally downvote to post a comment instead of a passive-aggressive vote. This brings these people out and allows us to see who is offering civil discourse versus disrespectful banter, thus enables people to ignore those users. It also keeps those individuals who do have good points from being bullied by a select few who down vote their comment(s) even though their points may be beneficial to many.
Personally, I'd do away with all of it, but removing the negative voting is a breath of fresh air. So many times I see new members get reamed for an innocent question by MacRumors "police" with negative votes, and they don't return. They're new and don't have the thick skin yet, sure, but should they have to in the first place?
Good point! I'd just make blocking of users easier. My block list has about 10 or 15 members from over the years. Mostly trolls but a couple PC flamers still show up for banter that are on my block list. ;-)