Apple's Share of U.S. PC Shipments Rises to 12% in 2Q 2012

[mjtomlin]

OSX will never be the end of Windows - people should let it go.

This is very true... but, iOS+OS X will be!

Actually, it will be a long, long time before Windows ever disappears as Microsoft has many enterprise licensees that have guaranteed them a spot in IT for several more versions of Windows.

But it is curious as to why both of these "groups" fail to count iPads (tablets) as computers? They are clearly in the same market and changing a lot of people's purchasing decisions.

 

[gnasher729]

Just read this article:

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2012/07/12/global_pc_market_q2/

"Gartner said Lenovo posted strong growth in EMEA but noted "there is growing concern of the inventory build toward the second half of 2012".

It is worth adding that Lenovo's EMEA boss Gianfranco Lanci used to be Acer's CEO and carried the can for last year's inventory debacle at his former employer, which was forced to write down ageing kit discovered in a warehouse in Spain."

so basically use the numbers that make you feel good on the head and article and set the IDC numbers as a note at the end.

regardless, out of 87.5 million PCs looks like about 4 million of them will be MACs - the PCvsMac question was settled a long time ago, OSX will never be the end of Windows - people should let it go.

Apple has sold a lot more than 4 million Macs in the previous quarter; I'd say they will be at about 5.8% of world wide sales this quarter. You'll see on the 24th, at least you will be able to compare Apple's official numbers with Garter's estimates. PC vs. Mac question is of course not settled - at the going rate Macs will outsell all PCs in about 2030 Seriously, Mac sales keep and keep growing, while Windows 8 is stillborn. But that is unit sales. Apple has > 10% of world wide revenue, and probably more than half the world wide profit.

And some people add tablets to the total sales, and they see that after being #1 in calendar Q4 and just barely #2 in Q1, Apple is likely to be #1 in worldwide sales again, and set to stay there.

And MacOS X won't be the end of Windows - Ballmer will!!!

Just adding this: http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/analyst_q3_ipad_sales_could_hit_20m/

Analysts estimate iPad sales in the 2nd calendar quarter to be 20 million. So counting desktops, laptops and tablets together, Apple will be close to the total of HP and Lenovo in world wide unit sales.

 

[G51989]

This is very true... but, iOS+OS X will be!

Actually, it will be a long, long time before Windows ever disappears as Microsoft has many enterprise licensees that have guaranteed them a spot in IT for several more versions of Windows.

But it is curious as to why both of these "groups" fail to count iPads (tablets) as computers? They are clearly in the same market and changing a lot of people's purchasing decisions.

iOS and OSX won't be the death of windows ever

iPads aren't counter as " computers " most likely because they are very limited compared to a desktop/laptop " computer ". They might change users who don't do much besides facebook and youtube, but anyone who wants to get work done or play real games will still go for a desktop/ laptop

 

[3282868]

The rest of this quote continues. Look, you can disagree with him all you want. But try to keep things civil. FWIW (not much?), I think he made fairly rational point. Your response if seriously inflamed for god know's what reason.

I miss the down-vote.

Actually, this is good. It is getting people who normally downvote to post a comment instead of a passive-aggressive vote. This brings these people out and allows us to see who is offering civil discourse versus disrespectful banter, thus enables people to ignore those users. It also keeps those individuals who do have good points from being bullied by a select few who down vote their comment(s) even though their points may be beneficial to many.

Personally, I'd do away with all of it, but removing the negative voting is a breath of fresh air. So many times I see new members get reamed for an innocent question by MacRumors "police" with negative votes, and they don't return. They're new and don't have the thick skin yet, sure, but should they have to in the first place?

 

[esp211]

iOS and OSX won't be the death of windows ever

iPads aren't counter as " computers " most likely because they are very limited compared to a desktop/laptop " computer ". They might change users who don't do much besides facebook and youtube, but anyone who wants to get work done or play real games will still go for a desktop/ laptop

Windows will never die because it is a commodity. Any cheap, old, or crappy computer will run Windows just like Android is to tablets and phones.

iPads should definitely be counted as computers since they are slowly but surely replacing the desktop/laptop. Not everyone uses computers for work. And if they do, they can use the iPad to do pretty much everything. Besides Apple computers typically run Windows better than HP, Dell, etc.

 

[bawbac]

You are very right 12% is not 1 in 12 it's closer to 1 in 8, my mistake... I'm a little slow this morning.

And I agree with your points...

12 out of 100 Or less than 1.2 out of 10.

----------

But it is curious as to why both of these "groups" fail to count iPads (tablets) as computers? They are clearly in the same market and changing a lot of people's purchasing decisions.

Because iPads are not used in a way a typical computer would be used, such as work or school related tasks. Instead, the majority use for the iPad is web browsing, playing simple games or reading.

----------

Windows will never die because it is a commodity. Any cheap, old, or crappy computer will run Windows just like Android is to tablets and phones.

iPads should definitely be counted as computers since they are slowly but surely replacing the desktop/laptop. Not everyone uses computers for work. And if they do, they can use the iPad to do pretty much everything. Besides Apple computers typically run Windows better than HP, Dell, etc.

You are misinformed and giving Windows to much credit if you think their latest OS can run on any PC platform/chipset/processor.

I guess if your job is reading menus or flight plans, the iPad is sufficient for "work" use but for the majority, we need real computers with better performance & interfaces to get real work done.

 

[G51989]

Windows will never die because it is a commodity. Any cheap, old, or crappy computer will run Windows just like Android is to tablets and phones.

iPads should definitely be counted as computers since they are slowly but surely replacing the desktop/laptop. Not everyone uses computers for work. And if they do, they can use the iPad to do pretty much everything. Besides Apple computers typically run Windows better than HP, Dell, etc.

Ipads will not be replacing the desktop or laptop any time soon.

Lots of people still want desktops and laptops, otherwise 80+ million pcs wouldn't have shipped last Q.

If you think you can use an ipad to do pretty much anything. You've clearly never worked in the business world.

Ipads are very limited machines.

 

[gnasher729]

Ipads will not be replacing the desktop or laptop any time soon.

But they have as good as killed the netbook market already. And they have about 20% of the total sales of laptops and desktops already, while just freshly introduced.

 

[G51989]

But they have as good as killed the netbook market already. And they have about 20% of the total sales of laptops and desktops already, while just freshly introduced.

Yes, they sell well, but they are for the most part an accessorie, not a replacement.

The netbook was already on its deathbed.

I'd take a high end netbook over an ipad any day, much more capable.

And I don't think people understand how many PCs are out there. There have already been over half a billion copies of windows 7 copies sold, and 80 or so million PCs shipped just last quarter alone.

 

[AppleFan1984]

As long as the profits don't plummet, market share is irrelevant!

Those of us who've been using Macs since the '80s know that it works the other way too: if market share falls below a credible threshold, third parties start walking, the ecosystem shrinks, and investors take notice.

I see no sign of this happening now, but for the long run it can be helpful to keep in mind. Market share has a role.

----------

Exactly. What is going on here??

At best, Mac sales are effectively flat.

At worst:

Apple to post fiscal Q4 miss on cannibalized Mac sales, analyst says
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...s_on_cannibalized_mac_sales_analyst_says.html

 

[esp211]

Ipads will not be replacing the desktop or laptop any time soon.

Lots of people still want desktops and laptops, otherwise 80+ million pcs wouldn't have shipped last Q.

If you think you can use an ipad to do pretty much anything. You've clearly never worked in the business world.

Ipads are very limited machines.

Numbers prove you wrong. PC sales are down but iPads are up.

I have been working in real estate investment for 10+ years so again, you are wrong. I can do 90% of my work on an iPad. The only thing I can't do is Excel but I can remotely access my work pc if I really wanted to. If you think iPads are very limited then you haven't used one for an extended period of time.

 

[G51989]

Numbers prove you wrong. PC sales are down but iPads are up.

I have been working in real estate investment for 10+ years so again, you are wrong. I can do 90% of my work on an iPad. The only thing I can't do is Excel but I can remotely access my work pc if I really wanted to. If you think iPads are very limited then you haven't used one for an extended period of time.

Ahhh yes, pc sales are down a little. It goes in cycles. Come holiday season, I bet they'll go up.

Trust me, the ipad won't kill the desktop/laptop.

Ahhh yes real estate! the last true bastion of the power user.

Yes I have used ab ipad for an extended period. Its very very limited.

An ipad would probably melt if you ran my simulation software.

 

[esp211]

Ahhh yes, pc sales are down a little. It goes in cycles. Come holiday season, I bet they'll go up.

Trust me, the ipad won't kill the desktop/laptop.

Ahhh yes real estate! the last true bastion of the power user.

Yes I have used ab ipad for an extended period. Its very very limited.

An ipad would probably melt if you ran my simulation software.

Which do you think will go up more in the next 6 months? PCs or iPads? I'll save your post and we'll revisit it after the holiday season.

Who said I was a power user? I work in the business world and do real things on the iPad. Maybe for you it's limited but for millions out there buying them, it is not.

 

[G51989]

Which do you think will go up more in the next 6 months? PCs or iPads? I'll save your post and we'll revisit it after the holiday season.

Who said I was a power user? I work in the business world and do real things on the iPad. Maybe for you it's limited but for millions out there buying them, it is not.

I bet PC sales will go up and down. And I bet ipad sales will go up, but won't get close to PC sales. Ill bet 50 bucks on that.

And sure, maybe for you its not limited, but for many many people it is.

That could be why almost the entire business world runs on " wintels ".

Do you really see large companies dropping theit very productive, long lasting and reliable wintels for a disposible tablet? I sure as hell don't.

A couple million ipads have in the business world yes. But its a smakl number compared to the billion or so wintel machines being used around the world.

 

[esp211]

I bet PC sales will go up and down. And I bet ipad sales will go up, but won't get close to PC sales. Ill bet 50 bucks on that.

Way to go out on a limb. Save your $50 for your next netbook. I'll put mine towards an AAPL stock.

And sure, maybe for you its not limited, but for many many people it is.

I never said otherwise. You are the one speaking for everyone.

That could be why almost the entire business world runs on " wintels ".

Or maybe because the iPad came out just 2 years ago while PC has been around for several decades?

Do you really see large companies dropping theit very productive, long lasting and reliable wintels for a disposible tablet? I sure as hell don't.

In 5-10 years absolutely. PC's won't resemble today's. Wintels are reliable?

A couple million ipads have in the business world yes. But its a smakl number compared to the billion or so wintel machines being used around the world.

Again, it's kind of ridiculous to compare a 2 year old product to something that's been around for decades.

 

[hickabob]

12 out of 100 Or less than 1.2 out of 10.

1.2/10 is the same as 1/8.33

 

[fertilized-egg]

iOS and OSX won't be the death of windows ever

iPads aren't counter as " computers " most likely because they are very limited compared to a desktop/laptop " computer ". They might change users who don't do much besides facebook and youtube, but anyone who wants to get work done or play real games will still go for a desktop/ laptop

iOS certainly is a big threat to Microsoft. Microsoft already has a near monopoly in the "get work done or play real games" Windows market. That market lays golden egg but it's not growing as quickly as others, or even getting smaller in some areas. The mobile market is where the growth is and Windows isn't making much progress there.

More worryingly for Microsoft, as iOS improves and get more capable, they'll be more work for the likes of iPad and less for full blown Windows. Even businesses will find ways to incorporate iPads into their workflow in some capacity and use Windows less.

Also as users get familiar with iOS, it's very possible that more will consider Mac and OSX as their desktop instead of Windows PC. If they start with iOS, they could very well choose a Mac because it fits their ecosystem, UI familiarity, etc better.

It won't replace Windows and Windows but the role of Windows could very well get much smaller relative to the total market size. Worse, as seen in Windows 8's initial upgrade price, it means Microsoft now has to think about lowering licensing fees on Windows.

 

[BaldiMac]

Good job, Apple! Over the past 6 years you've gone from 4% to about 12%, give or take a Quarter. But to be fair it has been hovering around 10% for 2+ years. The only way Apple is going to break any kind of 20% marketshare is:

1)drop the prices (or offer much cheaper models) so more consumers can afford Apple

and/or

2)play more nicely with businesses so businesses adopt

until the above 2 are somehow met, Apple's probably near the cap of folks who will drop $1200+ for a desktop PC or $1000 for their cheapest laptop.


But maybe Apple wants to sit in the 4%-15% market share range and collect hefty profits. I dunno. Nothing really wrong with that unless you make some mistakes and your market share really plummets.

3) Keep improving the iPad to the point that Gartner and IDC decide to consider it part of the PC market.

 

[IJ Reilly]

You're not wrong, but keep in mind that Apple's share is growing in a market that they are helping to kill with another of their products (iPad/iOS).

Granted the PC market is shifting somewhat to tablets but I would not go nearly as far as to say that it is being killed by tablets. Not yet, at least, that's for sure. For several years running Apple enjoyed quarter after quarter of double-digit unit growth in desktop and laptop PCs, and they were managing this even in quarters when the Windows PC market was flat to barely growing. Not sure what that means in this stinko economy, but it isn't a development that can just be shrugged off.

 

[G51989]

3) Keep improving the iPad to the point that Gartner and IDC decide to consider it part of the PC market.

I think Microsoft already did that with the surface? ( yes, I know its not out yet )

I consider the Surface much more of a " PC " than a " tablet.

 

[BaldiMac]

I think Microsoft already did that with the surface? ( yes, I know its not out yet )

I consider the Surface much more of a " PC " than a " tablet.

Microsoft tablets have been counted with PCs for the last decade.

 

[G51989]

iOS certainly is a big threat to Microsoft. Microsoft already has a near monopoly in the "get work done or play real games" Windows market..

Microsoft's Bread and Butter is the Enterprise Market, Apple poses zero threat in that area. Some iPads and iPhones will make it in, and already have, but the enterprise world will be ruled by Windows for some time to come, and its not like Apple has failed to get into the enterprise market, they just don't care about it. Microsoft pretty much as a monopoly, other than a bit of Linux.

iOS doesn't effect the big time enterprise Market, the gaming market, or the console market, I'd say Microsoft will be just fine.

More worryingly for Microsoft, as iOS improves and get more capable, they'll be more work for the likes of iPad and less for full blown Windows. Even businesses will find ways to incorporate iPads into their workflow in some capacity and use Windows less.

Of course you can put an iPad into the workflow, and some business's to, and for some people its a great thing. But as far as huge enterpise networks go, windows will still be king.

Because for MOST business users, a largeish screen, keyboard, and big multi tasking is a must.

I could see the Microsoft Surface Pro really starting to take off in the business world when it comes out, because not only is it a more productive machine, it will most likely be super easy to integrate with a large Windows System.

Also as users get familiar with iOS, it's very possible that more will consider Mac and OSX as their desktop instead of Windows PC. If they start with iOS, they could very well choose a Mac because it fits their ecosystem, UI familiarity, etc better.

The problem is, most people have zero desire to spend that kind of money on a Mac, now for me a couple grand isn't really an object, so thats why I use a Mac as my fun machine. ( Gaming PC does the real fun tho )but I know that most people have zero interest in spending over 1000 dollars on a machine. They are far more likely to buy a 500-600 dollar Dell or HP than a Mac, even with iOS. And with Apple dropping support for their software VERY quickly, that's a turn off for some people who expect 5-8 years out of a machine.

It won't replace Windows and Windows but the role of Windows could very well get much smaller relative to the total market size. Worse, as seen in Windows 8's initial upgrade price, it means Microsoft now has to think about lowering licensing fees on Windows.

Of course it won't replace windows. I don't think Windows will get much smaller because its pretty much the industry standard. And Microsoft has done a great job of making OS's recently ( Not vista LOLZ ). Windows 8 already looks great, and Windows 8 Tablets+Surface really could come out into the mobile market, impossible to tell yet. ( Don't say Zune people. Thats one Failure. Apple's had plenty of failures as well ).

 

[smoledman]

So bottom line is Macs continue to experience explosive growth while Windows PCs are declining.

 

[G51989]

Way to go out on a limb. Save your $50 for your next netbook. I'll put mine towards an AAPL stock.

I don't have a netbook, and I already own APPL stock, thank you very much

I never said otherwise. You are the one speaking for everyone.

I think I am speaking for a good majority of users who didn't buy an iPad because iOS/the hardware is just to limited. That's why I'm excited for the surface pro.

Or maybe because the iPad came out just 2 years ago while PC has been around for several decades?

Tablets have been around before the iPad btw, and they do have their place in business. So does an iPad for some things. But iPads/Tablets will not replace the PC for a long time.

an iPad is not as productive for MOST business use ( go ahead, type a 40 page report, or have multiple spread sheets running on an iPad....oh wait ).

For you, sure. But for your average larger company running god who knows what.

They look for longevity.
Compatibility
Productivity
Decent Amount of hardware for future proofing.
On Site Repair
I could go on.

An iPad merely supplements most business work, it cannot perform a very large number of tasks that a desktop/laptop PC can. It can't even really multi task.

One of the reasons I think Microsoft came up with the Surface. It could be a low end laptop replacement.

I don't say this kind of stuff because I hate the iPad, I don't hate the iPad. Its an awesome device, but its just not a super productive machine. It can supplement the desktop, but not replace it for most enterprise situations.

In 5-10 years absolutely. PC's won't resemble today's.

Of course they won't, esp in the consumer world. We'll see lots of set top boxes, crazy tablets, things like that. But trust me, for the more serious users. You'll still see something like a tower or mini tower, or slimline with upgradeable parts that are easy to repair. Because your not gonna cram a workstation into a tablet, even in 10 years. A high end Workstation from 10 years ago will still rape something like an iPad.

We'll see lots of tablets in every market in 5-10 years, but they won't replace desktops and laptops totally. And they won't all be made by Apple.

Wintels are reliable?

Yes they are, I've been working on and with them for the better part of a decade. Macs to, With the exception of Vista and Windows ME, I've never had reliability issues with Wintel computers. They are great machines for what they are supposed to do.

Ever been in a large business envioment? Theres a very good chance you'll see very few, if any Macs.

Again, it's kind of ridiculous to compare a 2 year old product to something that's been around for decades.

By 2, you mean 10. The tablet has been around for much longer than the iPad.

----------

So bottom line is Macs continue to experience explosive growth while Windows PCs are declining.

I'm not sure were you are getting explosive growth from. Its still hovering around 10% as it has been for years. I suspect the RMBP makes up a very good number of these sales.

----------

Microsoft tablets have been counted with PCs for the last decade.

There has never been a Microsoft built tablet until the Surface

 

[BaldiMac]

Tablets have been around before the iPad btw, and they do have their place in business. So does an iPad for some things. But iPads/Tablets will not replace the PC for a long time.

an iPad is not as productive for MOST business use ( go ahead, type a 40 page report, or have multiple spread sheets running on an iPad....oh wait ).

For you, sure. But for your average larger company running god who knows what.

They look for longevity.
Compatibility
Productivity
Decent Amount of hardware for future proofing.
On Site Repair
I could go on.

An iPad merely supplements most business work, it cannot perform a very large number of tasks that a desktop/laptop PC can. It can't even really multi task.

The part that you and others seem to be missing with this argument is that an iPad doesn't have to replace your primary PC to replace a PC.