Apple's Struggles With Long-Rumored AR/VR Headset Detailed in New Report

[DarthBuzzard]

Not me, I got in at the ground floor on computers and knew that's what I would do, even though I was still in Jr High. (1973 or so) I saw the math and speed that it could allow. That's way different than just a visual medium.


Don't see any applications for communications that isn't already covered by a flat screen. (phone or computer)


??? Seems that's more manual than ANYTHING else.


Maybe, but what can it add over what we already have?


Nah. Flat screen would work just as well.

>For daily assistance and navigation.

I just don't see how that would be better -- to me it would distract too much.

That's the only area I see it working, but it wont be cheap or mass market. (And I'm including medicine in this category)

Nothing there excites me, but than again, I'm not a very visually oriented person, so whatever. And the goggle look isn't appealing either!

Give me an addon memory device, a direct computer I/O link into my brain, a wearable computer I don't notice I have on. Those things excite me.

For communication, AR/VR are the only technologies that can reliably give you that face-to-face connection, that sense of presence that someone else is right there in the room with you. This isn't something that screens can really do, because they only provide small 2D representations of people. We evolved to communicate face to face; it's what our brain expects and perceives as most engaging.

For exercise, the idea is you can gamify your exercise routines to make it more interesting and varied, and the immersion has been known to help extend sessions because it can help you forget you are actually exercising or put it more to the back of your mind.

For education, it would allow you to see concepts in new ways, engage ourselves in learning the way we tend to learn best which is through visual hands-on learning (including dangerous experiments in the sciences that you can't get away with in a physical school lab). You could see planets and the Earth at full scale, go into bloodcells, learn history by going on a field trip to those periods etc. Magic School Bus essentially.

For travel/telepresence, VR has been known to give clear benefits. Both in terms of agency and for the nourishing effect it provides for the brain, or even the level of memory call it can offer.

For daily assistance and navigation, it would be more natural to have objects and information of interest pop up for you as you walk about with AR glasses instead of having to pull up a phone and hold it out in front of you and see only through a tiny screen with all of it being in 2D making it harder to follow.

I get you're asking for some kind of sci-fi brain interface, but the truth is, VR/AR once it becomes a mature field will be a sci-fi interface just not through implants.

It will give you the ability to literally edit reality at an atomic level, to give you superhearing and supervision capabilities, to allow you to travel to any place real or fictional, and so on. In many ways, the holograms of AR will be more impressive than what sci-fi typically depicts.

 

[bobcomer]

<Snipped the semantics>

We got that part Bob, you don’t like AR/VR, it’s not for you, etc, ect. But that’s not what your post was indicating, so I questioned you and called you dismissing something entirely that you were indicating it was about ‘gaming’, when you yourself have no idea what Apples intentions are or other leading avenues. All you need to do is just back up your statement, that’s all.

Back up my statement, you've got to be kidding, we're all stating opinion here, even you and you haven't backed it up with anything either.

 

[44267547]

Back up my statement

You didn’t. I asked you how could you dismiss something without having any experience with it, and you alluded to gaming, that was of any interest to you, which you said it wasn’t. Then I inferred you don’t know if it’s intended for ‘gaming’ or not, and I provided other avenues that it could be used in the professional or entertainment industry.

What is it that you’re so confused about? I mean, I simply asked you what your experience was, you said ‘you didn’t have interest’, that’s fine. But then you dismiss it as a whole, and I asked you why, then you go off topic and become defensive. just a simple conversation. You don’t have to reply if you don’t have any supportive statements otherwise, Other than what I questioned you on.

 

[bobcomer]

For communication, AR/VR are the only technologies that can reliably give you that face-to-face connection, that sense of presence that someone else is right there in the room with you.

Well, they can be right there in the room with you.

Anyway, I'm not wired that way, I'm an introvert, I like distance, and 2d representations.

For education, it would allow you to see concepts in new ways, engage ourselves in learning the way we tend to learn best which is through visual hands-on learning (including dangerous experiments in the sciences that you can't get away with in a physical school lab). You could see planets and the Earth at full scale, go into bloodcells, learn history by going on a field trip to those periods etc. Magic School Bus essentially.

Yes, that's possible, but what's wrong with doing it in reality? VR would abstract it to much for me, een dangerous experiments. Now I can see controlling robots and such to do the dangerous stuff, but it's not something that I would do.

For daily assistance and navigation, it would be more natural to have objects and information of interest pop up for you as you walk about with AR glasses instead of having to pull up a phone and hold it out in front of you and see only through a tiny screen with all of it being in 2D making it harder to follow.

That I would like, but not with goggles. This is one of the areas where I just don't think we're far enough along to get excited about it yet.

I get you're asking for some kind of sci-fi brain interface, but the truth is, VR/AR once it becomes a mature field will be a sci-fi interface just not through implants.

I need the implants. I see much more use for this kind of stuff as an aid to the disabled, and you really do need the implants for it to work well enough to tack the name reality on to it. Think of giving the blind, sight, or the deaf, hearing, or the immobile mobility.

Otherwise it's just a 3D TV and sound system hanging on your head. And we know the adoption rate of 3D TV's.

And yes, I want it all, not just a baby step.

 

[bobcomer]

You didn’t.

At least be honest with your quoting, I never said I did. But yeah, I wont be responding to anything you say after this until you actually say something about the tech, and not me.

 

[NT1440]

I get where you're coming from, though the terminology would be an MR (mixed reality) device where you can do both AR and VR or be in a blended state of both. The mixed reality spectrum describes the full spectrum from AR to VR and the inbetween.

That is ultimately the true potential of the technology. To be capable of not just AR, not just VR, but to do both either in the same device or allow users of the two sides to interact with each other through applications.

See I thought “mixed reality” was a weird term because in my book that’s exactly what AR is. VR cannot become AR, but there’s no reason a device that does AR can’t do VR. Hence my previous thoughts on VR being a subset of AR.

 

[dugbug]

I think its obvious how AR/VR can improve certain industries such as interactive training in medicine, aircraft maintenance, battlefield visualization, etc.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Well, they can be right there in the room with you.

Anyway, I'm not wired that way, I'm an introvert, I like distance, and 2d representations.


Yes, that's possible, but what's wrong with doing it in reality? VR would abstract it to much for me, een dangerous experiments. Now I can see controlling robots and such to do the dangerous stuff, but it's not something that I would do.


That I would like, but not with goggles. This is one of the areas where I just don't think we're far enough along to get excited about it yet.

I need the implants. I see much more use for this kind of stuff as an aid to the disabled, and you really do need the implants for it to work well enough to tack the name reality on to it. Think of giving the blind, sight, or the deaf, hearing, or the immobile mobility.

Otherwise it's just a 3D TV and sound system hanging on your head. And we know the adoption rate of 3D TV's.

And yes, I want it all, not just a baby step.

If they can be right there in the room with you, then why do billions of people use phonecalls/video calls or other forms of communication? A lot of the time, we aren't able to be there with someone physically.

I'm also an introvert, as are many people who use VR for socializing. You get to go to a communal place on your terms, you can leave at any point, you can have any kind of abstract avatar, and don't need to speak to communicate as body language comes through. This is why plenty of introverts are fine in VR social apps. Not everyone will, but it will serve those who do, as well as the many extroverts out there.

You ask what's wrong with seeing other planets in full scale or going into blood cells in real life. I ask you how you're supposed to accomplish that? You can't.

VR has plenty of studies at this point to show it is nothing like a 3D TV, with AR naturally following suit based on principle. They fundamentally work differently both on a technological level and how our brains perceive them. There's actually no difference between a brain implant and a high enough quality AR/VR headset/glasses as far as your sight and sound are concerned.

I feel like you need to try a good range of quality VR experiences to really get the tech. Have you not done that yet?

 

[DarthBuzzard]

See I thought “mixed reality” was a weird term because in my book that’s exactly what AR is. VR cannot become AR, but there’s no reason a device that does AR can’t do VR. Hence my previous thoughts on VR being a subset of AR.

Well we can reverse that and say that a VR device can do AR. This is already a reality today. AR glasses that can also do VR well enough may be more than a decade out.

 

[44267547]

I think its obvious how AR/VR can improve certain industries such as interactive training in medicine, aircraft maintenance, battlefield visualization, etc.

I.e supplement:

-Automotive hands-on

-Law Enforcement tactical scenarios

-Trade skills

-Blueprint ‘live’ mapping

-NASA integration


That’s just a few of the avenues this tech is capable of in the private/public sector.

 

[NT1440]

I.e supplement:

-Automotive hands-on

-Law Enforcement tactical scenarios

-Trade skills

-Blueprint ‘live’ mapping

-NASA integration


That’s just a few of the avenues this tech is capable of in the private/public sector.

Think about being able to find your keys in your house upstairs under some laundry by looking that direction because you activated the AirTag you had on it.

Honestly the possibilities are truly endless with AR. Let’s just hope cheesy ideas and relentless pursuit of microtransactions and advertising don’t kneecap it’s true potential.

This is an area where you don’t even need to have imagination to find a use case. I think the first 5 years or so of a truly viable AR platform are simply going to be taking SciFi ideas from movies and adapting them to be realistically (in terms of usefulness, not photorealistic) applied.

 

[Pakaku]

We already have a built in, high tech AR/VR capability. It’s called our imagination. It’s free, no installation required.

Some people (like me) have no imagination =)

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

Is your point that because you haven't seen something it can't exist?

Much like VR, the tech companies are aiming this technology at a consumer space when in reality it has myriad uses in industry. I used to work in Design. Coming up with ideas and use cases is what I do.

I walk around my lab space at work and I see multiple uses an AR headset could have, from pulling up hands free videos on repairing equipment to walking through a Lidar site scan somebody made in the field. The military, medical, engineering and aeronautical applications are infinite and very exciting. I have seen VR used as an alternative to pain medication when treating burn victims and for training apprentices on dangerous welding techniques before they get to have a real go. The technology is exciting.

Walking the streets I have zero use cases for AR and I've spied a few neighbours looking like complete dorks in their Oculus setup because they forgot to close the curtains.

Apple are not the sort of company that builds devices for Industrial uses.

 

[4jasontv]

Much like VR, the tech companies are aiming this technology at a consumer space when in reality it has myriad uses in industry. I used to work in Design. Coming up with ideas and use cases is what I do.

I walk around my lab space at work and I see multiple uses an AR headset could have, from pulling up hands free videos on repairing equipment to walking through a Lidar site scan somebody made in the field. The military, medical, engineering and aeronautical applications are infinite and very exciting. I have seen VR used as an alternative to pain medication when treating burn victims and for training apprentices on dangerous welding techniques before they get to have a real go. The technology is exciting.

Walking the streets I have zero use cases for AR and I've spied a few neighbours looking like complete dorks in their Oculus setup because they forgot to close the curtains.

Apple are not the sort of company that builds devices for Industrial uses.

Consumer applications:

1. Walking / Driving directions.
2. Tourism infotainment
3. Games like tag or red light green light.
4. Behind the scenes commentary while watching TV
5. Stargazing.
6. Shopping, such as helping with finding fruit that is at the needed stage of ripeness.
7. Being able to do time delayed or alternate location activities with friends, such as hiking.
8. Gait analysis for sports training.
9. Cooking or repair support.
10. Interior or landscape design.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Much like VR, the tech companies are aiming this technology at a consumer space when in reality it has myriad uses in industry. I used to work in Design. Coming up with ideas and use cases is what I do.

I walk around my lab space at work and I see multiple uses an AR headset could have, from pulling up hands free videos on repairing equipment to walking through a Lidar site scan somebody made in the field. The military, medical, engineering and aeronautical applications are infinite and very exciting. I have seen VR used as an alternative to pain medication when treating burn victims and for training apprentices on dangerous welding techniques before they get to have a real go. The technology is exciting.

Walking the streets I have zero use cases for AR and I've spied a few neighbours looking like complete dorks in their Oculus setup because they forgot to close the curtains.

Apple are not the sort of company that builds devices for Industrial uses.

Just because you have zero uses using AR walking the streets doesn't mean there aren't billions of people who won't find uses.

And most people don't discover those uses until they're using the device. We don't have the devices or the people using them. Who knows if you say the same thing 10 or 15 years from now.

 

[kc9hzn]

In my experience, it’s usually a pretty good rule of thumb that the technologies everyone is getting behind are usually doomed to failure. Admittedly, I’m being very flippant, but, when Very Intelligent People say that X Will Be The Next Big Thing, X usually ends up as a pretty niche thing. Don’t get me wrong, X usually doesn’t completely die, but it almost never makes the impact people expect it to.

VR/AR definitely has its uses, but, as someone with glasses, I don’t really anticipate AR/VR that I’d wear all day, like I do my glasses. Oh sure, I might end up wearing them for task oriented reasons (like, putting them on to work on specific tasks), but I don’t see them being a thing that’s so brilliantly useful (and, perhaps just as importantly, unobtrusive) as my Apple Watch or my glasses. And I’m someone who’s generally bullish on new technology.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

In my experience, it’s usually a pretty good rule of thumb that the technologies everyone is getting behind are usually doomed to failure. Admittedly, I’m being very flippant, but, when Very Intelligent People say that X Will Be The Next Big Thing, X usually ends up as a pretty niche thing. Don’t get me wrong, X usually doesn’t completely die, but it almost never makes the impact people expect it to.

VR/AR definitely has its uses, but, as someone with glasses, I don’t really anticipate AR/VR that I’d wear all day, like I do my glasses. Oh sure, I might end up wearing them for task oriented reasons (like, putting them on to work on specific tasks), but I don’t see them being a thing that’s so brilliantly useful (and, perhaps just as importantly, unobtrusive) as my Apple Watch or my glasses. And I’m someone who’s generally bullish on new technology.

That's not how it works though. Everyone got behind computers and mobile phones.

They were both seem as niche technologies though. It took years and years for the market to prove they could break out of the destined niche that so many thought they would forever fit into.

As someone with glasses, the idea is you would replace your glasses with AR glasses. Not now, possibly not even 10 years from now, but eventually. They'd straight up perform better than prescription glasses, and be able to go beyond human vision (and even beyond human hearing), before we get into any of the main usecases.

 

[turbineseaplane]

That's not how it works though. Everyone got behind computers and mobile phones.

They were both seem as niche technologies though. It took years and years for the market to prove they could break out of the destined niche that so many thought they would forever fit into.

As someone with glasses, the idea is you would replace your glasses with AR glasses. Not now, possibly not even 10 years from now, but eventually. They'd straight up perform better than prescription glasses, and be able to go beyond human vision (and even beyond human hearing), before we get into any of the main usecases.

I definitely see the potential (also a glasses wearer), but also agree with you that we are long ways off still.

I also don't see it being something I want all the time.
The thought of having an "info computer" constantly in my vision is mentally draining even just conceptually.

Glasses are a fashion thing also, and thus for me it will be need to be essentially an unnoticeable difference. I'm not really ever going to wear something that is thicker/bulkier/heavier, etc

 

[DarthBuzzard]

I definitely see the potential (also a glasses wearer), but also agree with you that we are long ways off still.

I also don't see it being something I want all the time.
The thought of having an "info computer" constantly in my vision is mentally draining even just conceptually.

I think that's fine to think, but we've seen people say the same about the idea of the Internet in the 1990s, that they don't want to be online and have an information overlord. You may have some outliers, but I would bet big on most getting used to it and then feeling lost without it.

I believe that ever since the Internet took off, the majority of humanity will forever be a technology-dependent species, constantly connected to information. It's too useful to us, and I think AR will help give us back some of the humanity that was lost by the staring at your phone generation.

At the very least, a physical concert with AR glasses won't be filled with people holding up their phones. They'll be in the moment with visual effects synced and overlaid on top.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I think that's fine to think, but we've seen people say the same about the idea of the Internet in the 1990s, that they don't want to be online and have an information overlord. You may have some outliers, but I would bet big on most getting used to it and then feeling lost without it.

And what we have is a society that has tech induced ADD to the point of avid readers finding themselves often times unable to focus enough to read..

I'm not saying nobody will want it, but rather than it's much more likely to be useful at times/situationally.

Human brains are not coping well with constant stimulation, especially visual.
Mounting that onto your head will have some drawbacks and adoption challenges.

Also, despite all this "access" -- have you noticed how poorly informed and lacking knowledge so many are?

We need a much better plan here for the infrastructure of information to go along with all this, including business model concerns.

(this is a long way off from widespread general audience penetration)

I just noticed you're a brand new account today that has only commented on this one thing.
That makes me very suspicious -- I'm going to opt out of further dialogue at this point.
Cheers

 

[DarthBuzzard]

And what we have is a society that has tech induced ADD to the point of avid readers finding themselves often times unable to focus enough to read..

I'm not saying nobody will want it, but rather than it's much more likely to be useful at times/situationally.

Human brains are not coping well with constant stimulation, especially visual.
Mounting that onto your head will have some drawbacks and adoption challenges.

Also, despite all this "access" -- have you noticed how poorly informed and lacking knowledge so many are?

We need a much better plan here for the infrastructure of information to go along with all this, including business model concerns.

(this is a long way off from widespread general audience penetration)

I just noticed you're a brand new account today that has only commented on this one thing.
That makes me very suspicious -- I'm going to opt out of further dialogue at this point.
Cheers

Well it depends on how it's tailored. AR can be intelligent and very context-aware so as to not get in your face when you don't want it.

Or it could be like that hyperreality video, which is a mess.

So it could go either way.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Who’s with me thinking that AR/VR is still a gimmick? I don’t think I could be less excited about any other technology

They both have uses cases that work well right now, but it's not even close to some type of mainstream "next Apple Watch" type of thing -- not at all -- not even remotely close

My main reservation, specifically with Apple, is just what poor a** interface work they do now. The accessibility and consistency and overall usability of so much of their software is just total garbage now. Them designing an AR interface or "a car" -- lmao -- not the current Apple, no way..

They are still just busy working to undo all the mistakes of the last 5-7 years.

 

[SpectatorHere]

AR will be more transformative than the internet or cellular phones. VR will massive in its own right, but AR is tech with more immediate impact. Still lots to be worked out though, with image recognition AI, UI, and battery.

 

[turbineseaplane]

AR will be more transformative than the internet

That might be a bit of a reach.

Consider thinking about the impacts and changes of scale by networking the world

 

[DarthBuzzard]

That might be a bit of a reach.

Consider thinking about the impacts and changes of scale by networking the world

AR could let you edit reality on an atomic level and give you perceptual superpowers.

I think that it could very well be more transformational, at least as far as the nature of being human is concerned.