To be fair, he's hardly going to say "yeah this thing was a mistake lmao, no one likes it".
I redirect that to your comments on "AI".
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Apple's Third Quarter Earnings Call Takeaways: Work on AI, Vision Pro Demo Success, iPad and Mac Sales to Fall in Q4
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To be fair, he's hardly going to say "yeah this thing was a mistake lmao, no one likes it".
I redirect that to your comments on "AI".
You touch on a very good point. How expensive are the services going to cost per month for the Apple vision Pro? I can’t imagine anything less than $30 US? if that’s been brought up or I missed something apologies
Look up the Jobs To Be Done approach to product design and all the things you mentioned do in fact do something that a regular computer cannot.
The thing with Vision Pro is it’s too expensive and intrusive to justify its unique approach to visual computing. Too many compromises have to be made to use it over something that already exists.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I respect the personal opinion in the second paragraph. Not everyone feels the same way.
I can't think of things that each of the other products in the list can do that a computer can't. They are all computers. If the bar for new tech is that they must do brand new things that a computer can't, the bulk of the Apple lineup failed at that one... and can apparently all be retired right now in favor of only a Mac.
The other products may offer a few specialized features... but Vpro certainly has some specialized features too. I'd love to hear what each in the list can do that a Mac can't.
I can't think of things that each of the other products in the list can do that a computer can't. They are all computers. If the bar for new tech is that they must do brand new things that a computer can't, the bulk of the Apple lineup failed at that one... and can apparently all be retired right now in favor of only a Mac.
The other products may offer a few specialized features... but Vpro certainly has some specialized features too. I'd love to hear what each in the list can do that a Mac can't.
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AC+ is a given, but I’m thinking more exclusive content.
Regarding battery, I have no doubt they will have a separate MagSafe switchable battery pack available at launch. If they don’t, someone will.
Pricing for everything has soared in the last year or two. The big squeeze for my family and business is the huge jump in the cost of the basics: fuel, food, and home/facility maintenance. So we're holding off on tech purchases that aren't absolutely necessary for the foreseeable future. I suspect we're not alone.
For example, iPad sales are down 20% this quarter compared to last year. It’s a difficult compare because last year the $600 iPad Air was launched during the same quarter, so it’s not an apples to apples comparison since there were no new iPads this quarter.
I can see 3rd parties wanting $$$ for that exclusive content, but imho if Apple were to do that on top of the entry price, they'll shoot themselves in the foot, at least until a 2nd or 3rd gen product
Mac isn’t handheld, or wrist wearable, etc etc etc.
Look up Jobs To Be Done. It’s not necessarily about the device’s functions, but the job it does for its user. Changing the format changes the job it does.
Problem with vision pro is, in doing a bunch of new jobs with its spatial capability, it introduces a whole slew of compromises that make it so the new jobs it does aren’t worth it to the vast majority of potential buyers.
The phrase "Let's be honest" generally means "Please agree with the opinion I'm about to give." You don't know what the reason is.
I don't even think its the macro-economic conditions thats affecting revenue, its just people feeling what they have is good enough and sticking with it. They would rather put that $1,000 in Apple Savings than upgrade from iPhone 12, 13 or 14.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Vpro delivers ANY size screen for up to all of the rest of the product mix without scaling weight or size. It is a smallish mobile device that can summon up to any size screen on demand. No crease. No fold. No roll. Assuming that alone works about as well as it was demoed in the WWDC preview, and that's worth $1000 more than the "Starting at" price of a rigidly fixed size MBpro 16" to me... and/or a rigidly fixed size Apple Studio display to me... and/or whatever price the rumored iMac "bigger" is going to be when it arrives.
I'm a road warrior type. When I go from my desktop Mac (40" Ultra-Wide screen) to a 16" MB, my productivity plummets over that huge loss of screen RE. There's no practical way to carry that 40" screen everywhere I travel... and Watch, iPhone, iPad, or any MB can't offer more than 16" screens.
What would we pay for the soft-rumored 32" Apple Studio Display if we already pay about $2K for a 27" version? And that's only a display.
That's only 1 "simple" added value benefit likely to come with Vpro. There are likely countless others for a device able to show our eyes ANYTHING and it looks realistic and feed our ears any sound so it sounds like we are there too.
If Apple was willing, they can virtualize every other product INSIDE Vpro: Mac, iPhone, iPad, Watch, etc... as a kind of "one device to replace them all." Apple is likely NOT willing to cannibalize that much... but they could. Carry one smallish device around and it could potentially be like having all Apple devices with you, wherever you happen to be. I don't expect that (mostly because maximizing profit rules all at Apple), but that potential is available in this one kind of product... unlike everything else (except a Mac, which can offer up what the rest of the lineup can do).
It's perfectly fine for people to not like the idea of Vpro... or feel any interest at all in it. But any one of us doesn't represent all of us. Again, I'm very interested if it can do that ONE thing well. Basically, for a little more than "starting at" MBpro 16", I might make it a new kind of "laptop" that can give me any amount of screen RE when on the road. That seems much better than trying to replicate the same with some kind of MB "fold" or MB "roll" or lugging extra screens along, etc. to me.
I feel no love at all for $3500. But then again, if a 16" MBpro starts at $2499, what would a 20" MBpro start at? 24"? 30"? And what would those weigh? And how difficult would it be to carry those giant clamshells around? All of them could be inside Vpro at a fixed amount of weight & size... even a 65" MB. For me, it's still wait and see if it can really deliver on that, but the WWDC demo seemed to show it pretty clearly. Hopefully it actually works as well as implied in that demo.
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This would make sense unless you actually look at the data and see sales are down for all smartphones, computers, and tablets regardless of manufacturer. It’s not a situation unique to Apple or their pricing.
See now that makes sense. However, if the software is hobbled like iOS, I would pick a regular Mac without hesitation.
And I know it can take a Mac’s screen and expand it into space. But then you need a Mac in addition to VP. And many can only afford one, and if the Mac offers way better multitasking flexibility at 1/3 the cost, the virtual screen size becomes extremely difficult to justify.
Yah, but those consumers will be impressed.
The way he worded it, he was respectful that not everyone will be able to afford it - even though they will be "blown away" by the product demo.
People will be definitely visiting the Apple Store to check out the super cool Vision Pro headset demos.
When I was a kid I would go to Radio Shack to play on the TRS80 Model 1 - even though it was way out of reach to think about buying one or getting one at our home at the time.
A slump in sales is exactly what we need before new product releases. This may encourage Apple to keep prices sharp.
Certainly the infrequent product rollouts affect hardware revenue. It's like every week here in the forums there is discussion against products not seeing updates as often as Apple could do them. Likely this is interpreted as Apple being very cautious with what they produce when they can't afford to be seen producing less stellar products with a not ideal parts availability effecting factory products runs compared to pre-covid.
In summary
VisionPro and AI: Very little said because it's bleakDevices: All down, not surprising because they're stagnant
Services: No surprise they're up, they ram them down your throat and iCloud is such an insulting free tier it's virtually mandatory to get the first paid tier
The dang things are built so well and last so long - that's another marketing problem in a way. Consumer wins though.
We have a couple iPads - but the favourite one is the iPad mini - so when the new one is released, I'll get it. As for all the other models - it hardly matters to us, because the other oner is a 3 or 5 year old iPad and it works fine enough. I guess in this way I can sort of relate to the people who do not upgrade iPhone every single year. I justify the iPhone upgrading because it's used so many hours every day - iPad is more occasional use, and the mini is perfect for a kid as well.
What if the job to be done is Spatial Chillaxin?
I'll be having at least one set for the household, just based on what I have seen and been told from people who have tried them out.
Yah, we know it costs a lot. But everyone will still want it even if they can't or won't get it right away.
Apple IIe was $3300 for our set back in like c1981 - that was some big bucks - I had to fool my parents into getting it so mom could "keep her recipes on it and dad can do accounting on it"
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
In my case- in about everyone's case here???- does anyone not have a Mac already? I have 6 on hand plus a PC... 3 of those in active use, 2 in occasional use and one pretty much retired but still functional if there was a need (and occasionally it does get fired up to access some old software that didn't make the jump to Silicon or even far into the Intel era).
Presumably the "toss" of Mac screen to Vpro is something like Airplay. If so, however much Mac multitasking power you have multitasks just as well on giant Vpro screens. What is different is what frustrates me going from 40" ultra wide to 16" MBpro IN REVERSE. Frustration at my own inefficiency in cramped screen RE flips into having enormous screen RE and thus my own efficiency and multitasking goes UP (as it does when using my desktop screen). Or that's the HOPE anyway... based on what Apple demoed in the WWDC presentation.
"If the software is hobbled" applies to all of the past "new products" from Apple. If Touch was a flop os on iPhone, we'd all potentially have Nokia or similar in our pockets these days... or still using crackberry (and an iPod in the other pocket). If watchOS was hobbled, we might all still be wearing traditional watches because the iDevice can basically do everything else Watch can do. Etc.
Apples been at it for 6+ years. I have to assume Vpro OS is probably about as well designed as iPhones was 6+ months before release. Will it have bugs? Yes. And so did iPhone. Will there be some big issues? Yes, probably some "you're wearing it wrong" just like "you're holding it wrong" with iPhone. But I doubt the OS is thoroughly hobbled at this point... probably no more than iOS was for iPhone 6+ months before release. iOS was a substantially new OS with many differences from macOS on which it is based. Vpro's OS gets to build on a lot of what Apple learned in iOS. Using hand gestures and similar is iPhone-esque as opposed to when they were first rolled out and we were all accustomed to either mouse & keyboard on Macs or click wheel on iPods.
I'll give Apple plenty of benefit of the doubt until an in-person demo with my own eyes can prove some favorable imagination wrong... or right. To be determined when we can actually see for ourselves what it can and cannot do.
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I believe Apple will produce content, but third parties will see the advantages of offering content linked to a specific pair of eyeballs that can’t be shared will other eyeballs.
Yes, Apple will produce content, what I meant to say is they will not charge extra for it.
Re the specific pair of eyeballs, what are you thinking here? I mean if I buy a movie today, I can share it via family sharing for example.
Is that A Clockwork Orange?Those of us who have been following all of this for decades, know it is all too obvious that Apple is slowly, surely, and seemingly unstoppably becoming this generation's IBM/Xerox.
In the long term, Apple will become a pure financial/services entity, and Apple KNOWS this. They know they have zero hardware ideas. At some point, products and manufacturing need to be spun off somehow, to have some real innovation in the field, so that 20 years from now we're not stuck with the same iPhone/Mac, or maybe even a worse iPhone/Mac, at $5,000 a pop.
All that development money and engineering talent wasted into into yet another headset, with the same tired vision that's been around since the 1960s. Sigh.
