Apple's Tumultuous Relationship With Bitcoin Apps

[till213]

The U.S. dollar is every investor's end game.

Yes. Because if you invest into U.S. dollar that means "game over"

 

[osx11]

Those of you who think that bitcoins will one day replace traditional currency are naive. Bitcoins value will forever be tied to the U.S. dollar, like every other commodity. The U.S. dollar is every investor's end game.

Except for the fact that there are already more Euros in circulation than U.S. dollars. Half of Africa has their currency pegged to the Euro. And the trend is progressing in that direction. Serious investors realize this and don't believe the U.S. dollar will forever be the world currency. The fact of the matter is that the U.S. is a ticking time bomb. The combination of printing money and enormous debts will cause some 'fun' for the U.S. dollar investors.

 

[Thunderhawks]

Except for the fact that there are already more Euros in circulation than U.S. dollars. Half of Africa has their currency pegged to the Euro. And the trend is progressing in that direction. Serious investors realize this and don't believe the U.S. dollar will forever be the world currency. The fact of the matter is that the U.S. is a ticking time bomb. The combination of printing money and enormous debts will cause some 'fun' for the U.S. dollar investors.

The issue of abandoning the dollar as "lead world currency" is being discussed and monitored regularly by Europe/Japan etc..

As long as oil is bought in US Dollars we will not see a change.

BUT, if the US continues on it's debtor nation path the day will come where the Euro replaces it.

 

[osx11]

The issue of abandoning the dollar as "lead world currency" is being discussed and monitored regularly by Europe/Japan etc..

As long as oil is bought in US Dollars we will not see a change.

BUT, if the US continues on it's debtor nation path the day will come where the Euro replaces it.

Yeah, I'm not saying this will happen in the near future but if the US continues it's current path.........

 

[Ploki]

The issue of abandoning the dollar as "lead world currency" is being discussed and monitored regularly by Europe/Japan etc..

As long as oil is bought in US Dollars we will not see a change.

BUT, if the US continues on it's debtor nation path the day will come where the Euro replaces it.

I think its spelled "Yuan" heheh

 

[phillipduran]

Bitcoin is like the dot.com bubble. it'll burst soon.

No it wont. Bitcoin fixes problems and fixing problems is what makes technology soar.

Bitcoin removes the middle man. It allows you to move value from one person to another freely. No banks, no fees. You can trade bitcoin down to something like .00000001 so you can send it in very small amounts.

A business that deals in Bitcoins can do so instantly. They don't need to "qualify" with a major bank, visa, MC etc. They don't have to pay fees for transactions. They don't need setup times and don't need to wait on anyone.

All of the BS that you have to put up with to deal with the major banks and credit card companies goes right out the window. It puts the power to do commerce back into the hands of the business owner and the consumer.

The more you can deal in strictly bitcoin, the better it will be for you. For now though, we often have to convert bitcoin from digital currency to fiat currency and we lose a bit during that transaction but for many exchanges, even those fees are minor fractions of what banks and other money wiring services charge you.

I took advantage of my exchanges zero transaction fee black Friday event and pulled $500 out of bitcoin and converted it to USD for ZERO fees. That was about 1/2 a bitcoin. I mined about 8 coins a few years ago for about $30 in electricity using my graphics cards. This stuff is real and isn't some fake currency. It has value because we use it.

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So glad I am not alone.



You and me both, brotha.

Here are you answers to what bitcoin is.

http://bitcoin.org/en/faq

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You're a real nutter, aren't you?

He's the one who is paying attention.

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Bitcoin is used for:
1. Buying drugs or weapons
2. Online-Gambling
3. Profiting from stupid people who hope to get rich by mining or hoarding Bitcoins, by buying BC low and selling high or by selling mining equipment
.

You mean like cash?

I bought a $199 graphics card from someone "who was trying to get rich off me" and I made $8000.

Tell me again how bad Bitcoin is.

I buy the same stuff with bitcoin that I buy with my paycheck from work, which is none of the stuff you listed above, except of course, my graphics card in the past but that was with USD.

Bitcoin scares you doesn't it? This shiney new stuff you don't know about. Spend some time and learn about it.

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I know how bitcoin works and it's still dumb.

Says the guy who invests in fiat USD

 

[Swift]

Out of curiosity, if you transition to only bitcoin, how will you pay your taxes?

And do a thousand other things you have to do to live in the 21st century. What you have here is libertarian anarchism at its most incoherent. They'll go for the Gold standard, because... alchemy! But they hate "fiat" currency because it requires a state with rules to make it work. If by "work" you mean the daily exchange of goods and services for money. Money that stays relatively stable from one day to another. That is accepted everywhere for "the payment of debts, private and public."

I know, I'm committing a terrible statist crime against... freedom!!!!

I used to have affection for the old anarchy-syndicalists, who thought that if they democratized the workplace, they could start the new society in the ruins of the old, and the state would wither away. Ha. As a practical matter, it just didn't work. Got to admire people for butting their heads against the inevitable, but then you want them to stop before somebody gets badly hurt.

A digitized currency that can't be counterfeited -- as far as I can tell -- is quite an interesting idea. But it will only become "currency" instead of "bubble" when a number of states adopt it and make rules.

 

[phillipduran]

Bitcoin is not a good thing. This is the first thing to understand. It appeals to people who don't like government controlled currencies. However, for any currency to last, it has to have some kind of guaranteeing force. Bitcoin has no entity that guarantees its value. This is why the value is so volatile. How do you use a currency when one day a coin is worth $1500, the next $500?

The biggest concern is that the people who will really flock to this are criminals. This can finance human trafficking, mob activity, anything that could be used to hurt someone, without a way to track them. Governments are too invasive and controlling and we need reform, but government is better than anarchy.

You mean like cash?

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Is there anything less then 1 bitcoin? Like the way a quarter or dime is to a dollar?

Let's just say places started accepting bitcoins. If I wanted to buy a coffee from Starbucks and went to pay with a bitcoin, how do I get change back? Can I give them .02 bitcoins?

Bitcoin can be traded in amounts as small as .00000001 of a Bitcoin.

I think the community is considering listing and discussing bitcoin in mBtc which is .001 bitcoin. So you would see the current price as $0.90mBtc. I know some people look at the price of Bitcoin right now and think the ship has sailed, it's too expensive to get into and it's not. You can buy any fraction of Bitcoin.

 

[gnasher729]

As part of the corporate elite, Apple and the government are essentially one and the same. Apple gets extremely favourable treatment from government (far better than the average citizen) in exchange for playing along with the government's wishes.

And here was I, thinking that the whole eBook debacle was part of a shakedown to force Apple to make more donations, or give up data to the NSA, or something similar.

 

[phillipduran]

You cannot use bitcoins to buy goods or services directly (except in the case of very high-value transactions, just like how you can't buy things with stocks, but companies trade them for goods all the time), but have to first trade them in for actual currency. You attempt to do this at a time when your cash-out value is a little bit more than you paid in. When you do that, you are manipulating the system - trying to make bitcoins worth more than you paid for them.

You sure about that?

Lots of places accept bitcoins directly. Google it. This is without converting to fiat currency. Send bitcoin, get stuff.

 

[tny]

I can't wait until bitcoin becomes a mainstream currency and destroys the rigged fiat currency that the Fed prints

Because a currency that can fluctuate by 100% value in a day is better than a "fiat" currency, eh? Just wait until the bitcoin bubble pops. Bitcoin has all the worst features of both "fiat" currencies (there is no basis to its value) and metal currencies (it is not backed by a government bank), so the only value it has is that assigned to it by its speculators, and is inherently volatile. An inherently volatile medium of exchange is useless.

By the way, if you think that the total supply of Bitcoin is fixed (that once the current bitcoin root is mined out, it will no longer be possible to mine bitcoins), think again: a new bitcoin root can be established at any time.

 

[phillipduran]

But there is a limited number of bitcoins, what happens then? Bit like gold, since gold is a fairly finite unit of value. Similarly to gold, I don't see the fiat world allowing BC to replace anything soon, there would have to be a major world revolution before that happens....and then who knows what would happen? Probably we will be dealing in bottle tops.

Bitcoin can be traded out to 8 decimals. If there are fewer available bitcoins the price goes up.

 

[Thunderhawks]

I think its spelled "Yuan" heheh

Yes, forgot that on their balance sheets they already own USA.

 

[itguy06]

The ONLY reason Bitcoin has any value at all is because it can be transferred into currencies. That's it. Why? Because Few/no companies will accept payment in Bitcoins.

Want a new monitor, sure the seller will take Bitcoins. But they need to transfer them into local currency to pay their supplier. Or the supplier needs to transfer to currency to pay the manufacturer, etc.

Once the banks/govt's start restricting the conversion of Bitcoins to currency the value will go close to $0.

 

[Gasu E.]

I have a degree in economics. The fact is that all forms of currencies and assets can and are being manipulated on a regular basis. There is also a lot of misinformation out there. The news media suggested that gold is a hedge against inflation. While this is technically true, there was never a serious concern that we'd see inflation. Now everyone is talking about a possible deflation, which is worse. Recently, several big banks were accused of manipulating the gold and silver prices. This whole thing is so complex and intertwined that there is no longer a safe bet. Yes, gold cannot loose all it's value, so in some sense it is safer than a stock. But the truth is no one really knows what will happen tomorrow. On a side note, there are also some really interesting statistics on hedge funds. Statistically, hedge funds provide customers with a roughly 0% gain on average, and if you add fees, you actually loose money in an average year. The media always shows the successful hedge funds and investors when in fact more than 50% make no money at all. At the end of the day: there is no longer a guaranteed risk free way to increase your wealth through investments. Real estate would probably be my bet in the long run, but you can't get rid of the risk. If you want more return than the 0.5% a CD can give you, you are going to face risk, no matter what others say. Higher returns compensate for the higher risk. Something to keep in mind, always!

There never was a guaranteed risk-free way to increase your wealth through investments. You just should diversify your portfolio as much as possible.

 

[Gasu E.]

I bought a $199 graphics card from someone "who was trying to get rich off me" and I made $8000.

Tell me again how bad Bitcoin is.

You made $8000 mining bit coins???? WOWEEE! You should be able to retire soon!!! Whereas, I made the mistake of going to college, studying hard, getting a job, working hard, putting my savings in conventional investments, and so forth... and only ended up with $2M left after expenses. Some fool me, huh?

The fact is, people were saying the same thing you are about .com stocks, tulip bulbs, South Seas company stock... any other financial fad/bubble has early entrants who do very well while the bubble inflates, a few who make a little bit (like you) during the late growth period, and late entrants who lose their shirts when the bubble bursts. The smart players take their early winnings and pull out while they're ahead. The fools keep on playing. The fact that you made a cool $8000 :roll eyes: is not evidence that this isn't just another bubble.

 

[phillipduran]

Except for the fact that there are already more Euros in circulation than U.S. dollars. Half of Africa has their currency pegged to the Euro. And the trend is progressing in that direction. Serious investors realize this and don't believe the U.S. dollar will forever be the world currency. The fact of the matter is that the U.S. is a ticking time bomb. The combination of printing money and enormous debts will cause some 'fun' for the U.S. dollar investors.

China is currently doing many things to set the Yuan up to function as the new world currency.

Everything should be hitting the fan soon in the USA.

 

[jlgolson]

Except for the fact that there are already more Euros in circulation than U.S. dollars. Half of Africa has their currency pegged to the Euro. And the trend is progressing in that direction. Serious investors realize this and don't believe the U.S. dollar will forever be the world currency. The fact of the matter is that the U.S. is a ticking time bomb. The combination of printing money and enormous debts will cause some 'fun' for the U.S. dollar investors.

I would be very wary of anyone who puts their trust in the stability of the EU.

For as long as the United States has the world's preeminent military, the US Dollar will be the shelter of last resort.

 

[phillipduran]

You made $8000 mining bit coins???? WOWEEE! You should be able to retire soon!!! Whereas, I made the mistake of going to college, studying hard, getting a job, working hard, putting my savings in conventional investments, and so forth... and only ended up with $2M left after expenses. Some fool me, huh?

The fact is, people were saying the same thing you are about .com stocks, tulip bulbs, South Seas company stock... any other financial fad/bubble has early entrants who do very well while the bubble inflates, a few who make a little bit (like you) during the late growth period, and late entrants who lose their shirts when the bubble bursts. The smart players take their early winnings and pull out while they're ahead. The fools keep on playing. The fact that you made a cool $8000 :roll eyes: is not evidence that this isn't just another bubble.

Yes, there is more than one way to make money. Thanks for rubbing my nose in the ground for only making $8k. I appreciate that Mr. Millionaire. Does that make you feel better now? I was only making the point that bitcoin isn't some scheming investment trick and I'm not in bitcoin for retirement money. It's a pioneering fun thing to be involved in and hey, it paid out 40 times my initial investment.

Bitcoin is a tool for making financial transactions that eliminates many problems with the current banking system. It has it's own set of risks, but ultimately it is a tool that can be used for people to transact money from user to user with an open ledger, decentralization and very low to zero transaction fees.

As with any expenditure of money, know what you are doing, understand the risk.

 

[osx11]

I would be very wary of anyone who puts their trust in the stability of the EU.

For as long as the United States has the world's preeminent military, the US Dollar will be the shelter of last resort.

There's more to power than military might. The EU is at least acknowledging it's debt problems and individual countries are working to being their debt under control. The US is still ignoring its debt. Just wait a decade or more and you'll see what problems the US will face.

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China is currently doing many things to set the Yuan up to function as the new world currency.

Everything should be hitting the fan soon in the USA.

The Chinese currency is still a fraction of the Euro in terms of circulation power. You have to understand how currencies work. Yes china is powerful, but they have mostly US Dollars. Why? We buy their cheap crap and pay them in US dollars. As a fault, they have US dollars, we have Chinese made products. since the US doesn't produce that much, the Chinese need to do something with their dollars. What do they do? Buy US treasuries. This is why China holds so much of US debt. with the US's negative trade balance with China, they are essentially forced to hold US debt. But I wouldn't be too worried about the Chinese with their currency on a global scale.

 

[bigpics]

A Bitcoin Primer

Quote:

Originally Posted by osx11

Am I the only one who still doesn't totally understand this bitcoin thing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbfc

I haven't a clue what it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BornAgainApple
Me neither...I guess I'm gettin' old.

So glad I am not alone.

Click and learn. Here's a decent primer: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1r7wmh/hello_i_summarized_what_i_could_find_out_about/

I'm personally on the fence about BTC. I see all kinds of potential and downsides. So easily hacked and so subject to other forms of theft if left on "exchanges." Also still way too geeky for mainstream use.

OTOH, gov't issued "money" has gone down in real-world value (as measured by the dollar/gold exchange rate) by 98% since the creation of the Federal Reserve system 100 years ago (this month - the bill creating it was pushed through a rigged vote on Christmas eve, 1913).

This has happened more rapidly - through various processes of systematic debasement - since FDR confiscated gold coins in 1933 and went into "warped drive" after the Nixon administration broke the last link between fiat currency and anything in the actual world in 1971.

The 1971 date corresponds exactly to the end of a century plus period in which the middle class continued to grow and become more prosperous. Since then the relative standard of living of the middles has at best stagnated and the percentage of "wealth" in the hands of the money-making/regulating/issuing/transacting class has grown exponentially.

BTC is in part a reaction by people who want to take that power away from governments given their utter misuse of it for political and crony-rewarding purposes. Will it be the vehicle for that?

Whadda I know? I'm spending a weekday morning commenting on a tech site...

 

[itguy06]

Repeat after me:

The only reason Bitcoins have any value is because they can be exchanged for "real" currency. Once that dries up, any value will be gone.

 

[phillipduran]

Repeat after me:

The only reason Bitcoins have any value is because they can be exchanged for "real" currency. Once that dries up, any value will be gone.

Correct version:
"The only reason Bitcoins have any value is because they can be exchanged"

 

[itguy06]

Correct version:
"The only reason Bitcoins have any value is because they can be exchanged"

No. Somewhere along the line you will need someone to convert to currency....

Let's take something simple, like milk in the US.

You buy your milk in Bitcoins from the farmer.... The farmer has to pay his people in, US dollars. So he has to convert Bitcoins to US Dollars. The farmer has to pay for his feed for the cows, again in USD. The farmer needs to buy fuel for his equipment, again in USD. He needs to buy supplies, again in USD. You get the picture...

Sure I can find someone willing to take Bitcoins but at the end of the day it needs to get converted back to some form of currency. That is where the "value" of Bitcoins lies - the conversion back to currency.

 

[MentalFabric]

As developer of the first native Mac Bitcoin mining application MacMiner http://fabulouspanda.co.uk/macminer/ I wonder whether they'd let a mining app on the store…