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Dell sold 500K units more than Q2 2007. Apple sold 300K more.

Reports of MS's demise are greatly exaggerated.

Who cares about Dell's unit sales? The growth in the Windows PC market has been tiny, only 1.8% in the last year, according to the numbers. The Microsoft OEMs are doing little better than trading market share. They're beating each other up. Apple is actually growing the Mac's share of the market.
 
Who cares about Dell's unit sales? The growth in the Windows PC market has been tiny, only 1.8% in the last year, according to the numbers. The Microsoft OEMs are doing little better than trading market share. They're beating each other up. Apple is actually growing the Mac's share of the market.

So the global increase of 16% is a figment of our imagination then?

I grant you that the US market is kind of saturated at the moment and that Windows based units are definitely cannibalising each other's sales whilst Apple's grow reasonably well. Fundamentally though the increase in real terms means that, despite a substantial advertising campaign rubbishing its competitor and the halo effect of the iPod and the iPhone, Apple's market share is still less than 10% of the US market and about 3.5%-4% of the global market. I'm sure Apple will grow a bit more but there's a definite ceiling there.

Which is not to say that we shouldn't be grateful that Apple provide a competitive stimulus because if MS had a total monopoly instead of simply an overwhelimg market share things would not be great for anyone.
 
Even more remarkable: Subtracting out Apple's sales to arrive at the numbers for the Windows PC industry, we find that their sales have increased a paltry 1.8%, year-over-year, or 281,000 units. Apple alone increased their sales by 386,000 during the same period -- more than the rest of the industry combined.

This is a remarkably insightful observation.

No wonder Bill Gates left the company and is taking all his money with him - once again proving he's a smart guy!

Your figures are proof that MS must be perilously close to a net decrease in Windows shipments - if not already! What with the rise of Linux and Apple's increased momentum your figures when re-calculated in a year or two could have net PC shipments in the NEGATIVE!!

You have single-handedly established that historical market share is irrelevant because it's NOT new business. It's old business and it's disappearing FAST!

No wonder MS are going all out to get Yahoo, because if they have a gross 20% drop in sales they will have to lay off staff in big numbers because their operating costs are so high - and that's when the momentum to get out of MS really takes hold. They're desperately looking for a new business because their old one is dying.

This is BIG news and is probably a dirty secret MS do not want out in the open. Well grocked....
 
So the global increase of 16% is a figment of our imagination then?

No, just irrelevant IMO. Apple isn't competing against Dell, they are competing against the Windows PC market in the aggregate, which is growing virtually not at all. As I pointed out earlier, Apple's unit sales alone increased substantially more than the of rest of the PC makers, combined. This is a far more significant statistic than comparing the number of units Dell sold against the number Apple sold -- especially if you're trying to divine something about Microsoft's future prospects.
 
This is a remarkably insightful observation.

No wonder Bill Gates left the company and is taking all his money with him - once again proving he's a smart guy!

Your figures are proof they MS must be perilously close to a net decrease in Windows shipments - if not already! What with the rise of Linux and Apple's increased momentum your figures when re-calculated in a year or two could have net PC shipments in the NEGATIVE!!

You have single-handedly established that historical market share is irrelevant because it's NOT new business. It's old business and it's disappearing FAST!

No wonder MS are going all out to get Yahoo, because if they have a gross 20% drop in sales they will have to lay off staff in big numbers because their operating costs are so high - and that's when the momentum to get out of MS really takes hold. They're desperately looking for a new business because their old one is dying.

This is BIG news. Well grocked....
AFAIK Office and the Server guys have been floating Ms for a little while. Plus the enterprise volume licenses that MS sells rake in some good money.
 
I'm sorry, but I still see very difficult to justify a 1900 euro MBP versus a 600 euro HP or DELL if all I'm going to do is check my email, browse the internet and watch some videos. Because, and that's an absolute truth, most people don't use their computers for work,a nd even if they do, they use Office-like programs and little more. You don't need a Mac Pro or MBP for that.

That's why Apple's direction is going toward the information/entertainment appliance like iPhone and :apple:TV. There's no need for a complex OS interface for most people. I'll bet we'll see an iPhone like device optimized (larger screen) for those exact functions in the near future: internet, email, entertainment. I wouldn't be surprised if the :apple:TV goes down that road also.

People need to get out of the old concept of a computer being necessary for even those daily uses. Since getting an iPhone, my use of Mail, iCal, iTunes and even Safari has dropped dramatically. I view all my photos and my entertainment (music, TV, podcasts, movies) on :apple:TV and do all my communicating, scheduling and information gathering on iPhone.

Previously, if I needed some info, I would google it on my MacBook Pro. Now, I have apps for the most common info I need (weather, news, wikipedia, movie times, unit conversions, etc) on my iPhone.

So if you're looking for a sub $1,000 computer for your daily tasks, Apple does sell it: iPod Touch (€289 - €469) or iPhone (well under €600 in most countries).

Apple is already shown with the iPhone by choosing plastic to keep the cost down that they are more concerned about the bottom line than they are the quality of the product (though honestly, I can't fully back this argument because I haven't used the new iphone, I have heard that people were not too dissapointed with it, I mean look how many have sold and I will eventually get one).

The choice of plastic over aluminum doesn't seem to have been influenced by price. In fact, it could be much cheaper to press a metallic case than to cast a plastic case out of a mold and deal with all the chemical, drying and cleanup implications that that material involves. The choice of plastic was to improve reception. With 10 odd antennae in there – including the addition of GPS –*it become too difficult to engineer an optimum radio reception with all that metal in the way.

I have the white iPhone 3G.. I think it's one sexy piece of tech. Originally I thought I'd miss the metallic finish of the original, but the plastic used on iPhone seems almost ceramic like. It doesn't feel cheap or a compromise in relation to the original iPhone's build.
 
As weird as it may sound, I don't find this to be the greatest of news. I think a lot of people don't realize that the larger Apple gets, the less personal they become.

I don't feel as well-taken-care-of by Apple as I used to since they've busied themselves by "appealing to the masses."

Shareholders should be happy though. Too bad they're ruining the feel of the company.

-Clive

mmm ... well I can only say as an Apple user since 1978 Apple is even better now than ever to deal with and the products are light years better. I am both a pro user and a home user so experience both end of the spectrum. I have pro apps that are mind blowing for work and iLife which is amazing for home. Exactly what is it you are pining for? I am curious.
 
No offense, but a country of 5 million is smaller than each of the first 21 largest states in the US by population. I don't mean to start a US-Euro flame war but instead point out that building multiple stores in scotland, or wherever, and spending tons on advertising there is synonymous with spending tons of money trying to get the word out to Montana or Wyoming and the 5 people there.

I see a lot of US citizens still think Europe is "middle of nowhere". That is plain stupid. Think of a mega city like Berlin...
 
I'd love to see the same chart, but not with number of units sold, but revenues instead. As it is now, a Mac Pro 8 core with 16 GB of RAM and 4 TB hard drives counts the same as the cheapest PC held together by a bit of rubber band.

And why does Gartner not publish world wide numbers a bit further down the list, lets say up to Apple's position?

gnasher - Here are revenues of the major hardware makers according to TD Ameritrade and Marketwatch:

(in billions of USD)
Apple - 28.7
Dell - 62.5
HP - 110.4
Toshiba - 22.5

So Apple still doesn't come anywhere near HP in revenue. However Apples average profit margin is 15% while HP comes in at 7.37%.
 
Absolutely, this is just a continuous trend...Apple has a fabulous lead in terms of design, OS, hardware reliability and overall quality, and the market is answering to these obvious facts after years of sheer ignorance, media bashing and monopolistic abuses by Microshaft.

The best desktop in the world? iMac.
The best portable in the world? MBP.
The best music players in the world? iPods.
The best smartphone in the world? iPhone.

Indeed, those that were living under the rocks or in the caves of the Windows world are finally seeing the light. And this is why MS is DEAD.

GO APPLE! TORA! TORA! TORA!

Well you make three good points about the MBP, iPod, and iPhone. The rest of it I honestly don't know how to respond.
 
I think that Apple will have a tougher time catching up to Dell and HP. Both of those companies are popular because of the entry level PC. Apple would need to come out with a good entry level desktop and laptop to truely compete with them. I still haven't purchased my first Mac because of the cost/specs involved. I see adds for Dell and HP that offer better specs for half the price of the Macbook all the time. That always makes me turn away from Apple. OS X is great, but the cost of the hardware keeps me with HP. Apple is a premium brand and needs to reach down to the entry level PC/Laptop.
 
I think that Apple will have a tougher time catching up to Dell and HP. Both of those companies are popular because of the entry level PC. Apple would need to come out with a good entry level desktop and laptop to truely compete with them. I still haven't purchased my first Mac because of the cost/specs involved. I see adds for Dell and HP that offer better specs for half the price of the Macbook all the time. That always makes me turn away from Apple. OS X is great, but the cost of the hardware keeps me with HP. Apple is a premium brand and needs to reach down to the entry level PC/Laptop.

Apple will surpass Dell/HP in home sale soon enough. It is the business side that I wonder about. I would have loved nothing more to get an XServe for the network I am upgrading. But they only come in dual socket flavor. I can only hope Apple will have something to combat the R900 that I deploying. :(

The US government is practically keeping Dell/HP alive with respects to server and desktop hardware.
 
So if you're looking for a sub $1,000 computer for your daily tasks, Apple does sell it: iPod Touch (€289 - €469) or iPhone (well under €600 in most countries).

You're joking right?

I love my iPhone 3G as much as the next guy, but in no way does the iphone/touch replace an entry level laptop. Hell. it doesnt even have cut and paste. The iPhone is a great SMARTPHONE, but not a laptop. You can get a 700 dollar HP with a 15.4 in screen, 3GB ram, duo processor, web cam, etc.. No way an iphone should be compared to that. Its not that its a bad product, its that your comparing 2 diffrent things.
 
I see a lot of US citizens still think Europe is "middle of nowhere". That is plain stupid. Think of a mega city like Berlin...

Ditto here, especially when we see that Europe is growing more and more as a major share of Apple revenues...not to mention the mega-rich cities in other parts of the world, such as São Paulo in Brazil, Moscow and St. Petersburg in Russia, at least 10 big cities in India and China, among many others...the overall purchasing power in them eclipses that of most U.S. cities, especially with the dark recession that only Bush denies to see.

Well you make three good points about the MBP, iPod, and iPhone. The rest of it I honestly don't know how to respond.

You don't have to respond to facts, so don't worry...:rolleyes:
 
Apple will surpass Dell/HP in home sale soon enough. It is the business side that I wonder about.

Apple will never be a big player in the enterprise until they provide roadmaps and end-of-life plans for their computer models and operating systems. Most large companies won't make any major purchases without this information.
 
Apple will never be a big player in the enterprise until they provide roadmaps and end-of-life plans for their computer models and operating systems. Most large companies won't make any major purchases without this information.

I'm not disputing this but heck most PC's become a serious IT support overhead and are barely more than Junk on the desk after three years...I don't know what it is about PC's they just seem to become seriously crap after a year or two...
 
You're joking right?

I love my iPhone 3G as much as the next guy, but in no way does the iphone/touch replace an entry level laptop. Hell. it doesnt even have cut and paste. The iPhone is a great SMARTPHONE, but not a laptop. You can get a 700 dollar HP with a 15.4 in screen, 3GB ram, duo processor, web cam, etc.. No way an iphone should be compared to that. Its not that its a bad product, its that your comparing 2 diffrent things.

^ I understand where you're coming from, but I invite you to read the rest of my post above carefully.

For the kind of people who don't use productivity apps (i.e. Photoshop, Word processing, spreadsheets, etc), they'll find that their information and communicating needs can be met with an iPhone. Entertainment can be enjoyed the most via :apple:TV.

I couldn't imagine myself without a computer so I don't mind spending $3,000 on a powerful MacBook Pro. Light users who don't see the justification for even a MacBook ($1,200) will more often than not find their needs met with an iPod Touch/iPhone.

If you consider yourself a light user, make a list of what you use your computer for. I'm far from being one so I don't presume to think the following is entirely correct, but I think it's pretty damn close...

Let's take this fictional character, Bob as an example:

Bob: Hi, I'm Bob and I use my computer for:

  • Checking and sending email
  • Surfing the net
  • Watching YouTube
  • Listening to music on iTunes
  • Storing my contacts
  • Keeping track of my friend's birthdays and upcoming events on iCal

iPedro:So Bob, what surfing do you do on the net?

Bob:Hmm... I check the weather for the week, I read the news on CNN and the New York Times, I look up the Mets' standings, I have some stocks so I look at those every now and then and sometimes and when I want to know more about something, I'll pull it up in Wikipedia.

So there you have it. Bob doesn't need an 18 wheeler to drive to the grocery store. He doesn't need a $1,200 machine, he can do it with an iPod Touch and a few specialized apps:

  • Mail
  • Calendar
  • Address Book
  • YouTube
  • iTunes
  • CNN mobile
  • NY Times app
  • Weather
  • Wikipedia webclip
  • MLB At Base

A full fledged browser isn't necessary to retrieve the information and entertainment value he's looking for. Nonetheless, he'll have one for more in depth browsing.

Another fictional character, Sarah, is better versed with computers but doesn't take it much further. She represents another large chunk of computer users:

Sarah: I do a lot of what Bob does but I also

  • Participate in Social Networking sites like Facebook
  • Watch and listen to Podcasts
  • Rent the occasional movie and buy some TV shows on iTunes
  • Manage my digital camera's photo library and make small adjustments

Sarah can also be satisfied with an iPod Touch or an iPhone and would find that an :apple:TV would enhance her entertainment experience over what she does on her computer.

Her last point begins to get into productivity applications. This is where a device with an iPhone like interface but with a larger screen and a little more power would come into the picture. A tablet Mac could fulfill that productivity need and make wider internet browsing easier.

As I've demonstrated, many computer users would do just fine with very specific applications, rather than running an entire computer for uses that don't require the complexity of a desktop based OS. This is why you see so many people with very anemic computers that they've had for five or more years (and probably were previously passed on by a power user who upgraded) which serve them pretty well.. and they're happy.

:)

Now, to keep this relevant to this thread, where I'm getting at is that Apple seems to be following the strategy that I outlined above. They're looking at computer users in a different perspective: rather than having them sit at their computers doing what people do on computers, Apple is giving them devices with very specific applications.

This is why I think that iPhone and iPod Touch are trojan horse Mac's. Just like online music sales weren't counted in Billboard ratings and now are, these portable devices will give Apple a very large share of the market when all is said and done.
 
My sister , a confirmed PC user for many years broke down and bought TWO Macbooks+plus free iPods for the coming school year-she about to be an RN-one for her one for her daughter. Like a virus, soon MS will find itself with a 50% marketshare.

And what pandemonium if Apple comes out with OS X for the PC?
 
No, just irrelevant IMO. Apple isn't competing against Dell, they are competing against the Windows PC market in the aggregate, which is growing virtually not at all. As I pointed out earlier, Apple's unit sales alone increased substantially more than the of rest of the PC makers, combined. This is a far more significant statistic than comparing the number of units Dell sold against the number Apple sold -- especially if you're trying to divine something about Microsoft's future prospects.

Wait... the fact that the global computer market has increased by 16% is irrelevant? Let's do some simple maths shall we?

Assume Apple sold 2,500,000 Macs this quarter. Assume this is up 40% from 1,500,000 representing an increase of 1,000,000 units.

From IDC's report:

Global sales in Q2 2007: 61,272,000
Global sales in Q2 2008: 70,644,000
Difference: 9,372,000 = 15.3% increase

Removing Apple sales:

Q1 2007: 59,772,000
Q2 2008: 68,144,000
Difference: 8,372,000 = 14% increase

I've already stated that I believe Apple is making some inroads into the US market - although it will inevitably hit a ceiling - which is a fairly saturated market (total growth is about 3.6%) but globally, where the markets aren't as saturated as the US, Windows is still increasing share.

You have single-handedly established that historical market share is irrelevant because it's NOT new business. It's old business and it's disappearing FAST!

Except it actually isn't as the above shows. Don't get me wrong - Apple will take some more market share from MS in the US market (and probably worldwide) - but how much? Maybe 10-15% US? Maybe 5-7% globally? Apple simply isn't positioned to enter the Windows' manufacturer's core markets.

You don't have to respond to facts, so don't worry...:rolleyes:

Well since you didn't actually post any that's not a problem.

I'm not disputing this but heck most PC's become a serious IT support overhead and are barely more than Junk on the desk after three years...I don't know what it is about PC's they just seem to become seriously crap after a year or two...

On what factual basis are making this statement? PCs are generally refreshed on a three to five year cycle in businesses and generally only because an application is no longer supported or better hardware required to run new or improved applications.

For the kind of people who don't use productivity apps (i.e. Photoshop, Word processing, spreadsheets, etc), they'll find that their information and communicating needs can be met with an iPhone.

Or, indeed, pretty much any of the new generation smartphones.

I take your point but the iPhone and the other phones are designed for the five to twenty minute experience. No-one seriously watches feature films regularly on a 3.5" screen or tries to compose letters on one.

This is why I think that iPhone and iPod Touch are trojan horse Mac's. Just like online music sales weren't counted in Billboard ratings and now are, these portable devices will give Apple a very large share of the market when all is said and done.

And if you count them you count all the WinMo, RIM and Symbian devices out there that do the same things. Symbian wins that race by quite a margin.
 
This is a remarkably insightful observation.

No wonder Bill Gates left the company and is taking all his money with him - once again proving he's a smart guy!

Your figures are proof that MS must be perilously close to a net decrease in Windows shipments - if not already! What with the rise of Linux and Apple's increased momentum your figures when re-calculated in a year or two could have net PC shipments in the NEGATIVE!!

You have single-handedly established that historical market share is irrelevant because it's NOT new business. It's old business and it's disappearing FAST!

No wonder MS are going all out to get Yahoo, because if they have a gross 20% drop in sales they will have to lay off staff in big numbers because their operating costs are so high - and that's when the momentum to get out of MS really takes hold. They're desperately looking for a new business because their old one is dying.

This is BIG news and is probably a dirty secret MS do not want out in the open. Well grocked....
---
MS is already laying off a good number of people...and hiring rather smartly at the MAC business unit. I live in Bellevue, Wa a couple miles from
Redmond- MSHQ, and know a good many MS workers- there is a malaise slowly creeping through the company-I think many of them worry about cutbacks-and and are not too happy with working at a place that pushes such product as VISTA out the door, and wish they were working at APPLE...at its growth rate-and as MS starts going into stalled or negative growth numbers, many of them might be...
 
Apple may be growing, but the quality level is dropping.I mean here we are almost to another OS 10.6 and MBP's still have wireless drop outs.I am happy for Apple just a bit peeved to that my supposed "Pro" laptop is next to useless when surfing wirelessly:mad:


BTW since 10.5.4 the 1 st key not being typed is happening again, WTF, i happening with their QA dept???
 
Ditto here, especially when we see that Europe is growing more and more as a major share of Apple revenues...not to mention the mega-rich cities in other parts of the world, such as São Paulo in Brazil, Moscow and St. Petersburg in Russia, at least 10 big cities in India and China, among many others...the overall purchasing power in them eclipses that of most U.S. cities, especially with the dark recession that only Bush denies to see.

Europe is simply small potatoes in world economy terms. You notice the only time Europe is remotely important in global economic development is when the ENTIRE CONTINENT is taken into account. Too bad the EU didn't get it's act together in time to have a chance in the spotlight before 2050 when China and India DO become important in this discussion. Note China and India's rampant consumption right now are not the same thing as sustainable economic development and long term impact, though presumably they will be in the future. (Just to be clear, I'm aware that there are "big cities" in Europe, but we're talking global terms here.)

Back to the point, European countries individually cannot compare to a US market in pretty much anything. There are only 4-5 European countries that are worth individual marketing efforts in any event. The EU as a unit is not homogeneous enough to provide the proper incentives for companies like Apple to market to it continent-ally, so it will continue to be the styx when it comes to the company's expansion.

Now I do sincerely love being told how backward thinking and evil we Americans are, but just saying nasty things about us and hoping that an extremely minor recession takes us out of your sad competition is a bit much, no? Not to mention entirely irrelevant to our long-term place in consuming world goods. (Yes, yes, we're evil for that too, despite making half of your jobs in the process.)

-Yankee-doodle-dandee
 
Wait... the fact that the global computer market has increased by 16% is irrelevant?

I don't know where you are getting information about global sales, or why you are pulling this into the discussion, since this article was about US sales only, which is the basis for my points. As for "saturation" I don't think this is much of an issue. The Windows PC market is plenty large, sufficiently large such that Apple doesn't need to steal much of it away every quarter to continue to grow their share. For the last few quarters, Apple has been garnering more the half of the total unit growth in the US.
 
Europe is simply small potatoes in world economy terms.

Despite the EU being the biggest economy in the world?

You notice the only time Europe is remotely important in global economic development is when the ENTIRE CONTINENT is taken into account.

And the US when you count all of its federal states. Well, with the possible exception of California that is.

Back to the point, European countries individually cannot compare to a US market in pretty much anything.

Mainly because our biggest countries are about one fifth its size. That's why we have the EU.

There are only 4-5 European countries that are worth individual marketing efforts in any event. The EU as a unit is not homogeneous enough to provide the proper incentives for companies like Apple to market to it continent-ally, so it will continue to be the styx when it comes to the company's expansion.

Really? Microsoft and HP didn't seem to have a problem.

Congratulations. Your post is the probably the most ill informed I've read to day.
 
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