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Suppose they start improving the equality with your job? It's easy to say, "let a few white guys suffer for the greater good" until it bites you in the butt.

Why is injustice against a few white guys acceptable?
You're choosing an interesting stance - one that focuses on a potential "qualified" White male applicant getting overlooked in favor of an "other" applicant, qualified or no.

Absent from this thinking - and those harping on this scenario - is the far more likely to (and still) occur(ring) complete OPPOSITE reality that has been this country's bedrock for generations.

It's amazing how this fact escapes some. Then again, maybe it doesn't 'escape' them at all...
 
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I own a private company. And I already look "further afield" as it were when it comes to hiring new talent. But also you assume I'm a white guy? I didn't have it easy in my own country because my family isn't from here originally, that's why I run my own company instead of trying to work for someone else.

In USA no one is from here originally, except indians.
 
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Sorry to say this, businesses behaving badly are the root cause of almost every regulation they and we complain about. They discriminate, dump in rivers, cheat, and then someone in government says let's fix this. In most cases the fix is overreaching, and the fixers do not see the unintended consequences of the fix. This maybe described as a catch 22 or trading one problem for another. Comes down to which is the most palatable.
 
You're choosing an interesting stance - one that focuses on a potential "qualified" White male applicant getting overlooked in favor of an "other" applicant, qualified or no.

Absent from this thinking - and those harping on this scenario - is the far more likely to (and still) occur(ring) complete OPPOSITE reality that has been this country's bedrock for generations.

It's amazing how this fact escapes some. Then again, maybe it doesn't 'escape' them at all...

Past is past. Discrimination on the basis of anything but competence is illegal.

There is no justification for choosing one candidate over another on the basis of skin color. That's just racism.
[doublepost=1453223569][/doublepost]
In USA no one is from here originally, except indians.

You mean they evolved here? Because I'm pretty sure they wandered over here too.
 
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Years ago I worked for a division of General Motors in the engineering department. Myself and 4 other white males were let go, to be replaced by minorities. Is that discrimination based on race and gender? Or it doesn't count as it is discriminating against a white male.
I'm going to bite, even though I shouldn't.

Which scenario do you think happens more. White, qualified workers getting a job over qualified minorities. Or qualified minorities getting a job over white, qualified workers?

I can't really count on your specific situation because there are too many variables. Maybe you and your coworkers weren't as good as you thought you were and were replaced by more qualified people. Maybe they hired employees willing to do the work for less pay. You were too expensive and minorities were willing to work for cheap which is pretty standard here. Maybe you were discriminated against for your race, which would have been in your legal rights to take action against. I have a strong feeling, you didn't.

The fact of the matter is, it's all anecdotal and highly irregular and not representative of the status quo for how racial issues tend to work in employment. To answer your question, yes it would be discrimination if the motive in firing you was purely based on race. It is very unlikely GM would want to stomach the negative press and heat they'd get for discrimination, so I doubt that's all there is behind this story.
 
What some people here don't understand is that sometimes you do have to give a job to someone a little less qualified. Full stop. I'm saying this as a conservative leaning moderate white male who had to pay for almost all of my schooling myself. You see, I graduated from college a few years ago, so I understand how unfair that can seem, as finding your first job can be really stressful and I was sometimes overlooked for scholarships since I'm white. But when I was a kid/teenager there weren't a whole lot of black men to look up to in technology.

I distinctly remember when I was a kid really looking up to Thomas Knoll who created Adobe Photoshop. As a kid you can't really relate to rich old white men if you're, say, a young black woman. A company as big as Apple can afford to hire a few people who are a little less qualified in the hopes of bringing a better future. If they don't work out, they don't work out, and let them go. But in all likelihood those employees will catch up and have the potential to be just as good as the rest.

It's often the case that many of these people had a ton of road blocks in their way between getting out of a bad situation and making it to an interview at Apple. If anything, it shows perseverance. I'm a reasonably intelligent person, but as a white guy college was hard enough. Imagine if you had friends from your neighborhood making fun of you for "acting white" just by trying to get an education. Or growing up without a dad, below the poverty line, with four or five brothers and sisters in a violent neighborhood. Giving these people a chance gives kids everywhere some role models of their skin color—instead of, for example, looking up to young men in local gangs. This is going to take a few more generations to sort out, but someone has to start.

Don't think I know what I'm talking about? I work at the University of Missouri. Ask me how many young black students we've been listening to at various community discussions and rallies. Many of these kids are from St. Louis. It's a problem. It's time to fix it, once and for all. As a white guy with respectable friends and family, I thought racism was mostly gone. But it's there, simmering beneath the surface, even after all these years. Just because you personally don't see it doesn't mean it isn't a thing and a big for millions of people. It's all incredibly unfortunate, and very much a thing that tends to self-perpetuate itself due to misunderstandings and different experiences. At the same time, both sides need to handle themselves respectfully. It's how Dr. King was able to make so much progress so quickly.
 
This is surely what happens. /s

You laugh, but this is 100% what happens. I worked a a company recently that was obsessed with having a fully diverse workforce. Our manager said outright in a meeting that if your Github profile was a white dude they weren't going to give you a call back. Didn't matter what you're qualifications because "we have too many already". It does happen
 
What some people here don't understand is that sometimes you do have to give a job to someone a little less qualified.

Wrong. You pick the most qualified person because competence is all that counts.

And who decides how much less qualified is acceptable?

How can so many reasonable people be okay with injustice and racism?
 
Forcing diversity on a workplace is as stupid as it sounds. If the population is diverse, the working staff will eventually be too, without hiring certain individuals just because of their gender/orientation/color.

Discrimination for the sake of diversity is still discrimination.
 
No discrimination? Hahah Mac products feel discriminated. With all these solder up products and neglecting Mac Pros...lets start on that first. Tim crook saying "we don't discriminate.."that shouldn't matter. What matters is how they think.
 
The real question is, are these numbers primarily representative of corporate or retail employment? There is a HUGE difference between the two.

It's good that Apple is applying the right use of the term "diversity" in this case. It's been lost in translation over time to other concepts like "diversity of skills" or "age diversity." That's not the real issue folks, and I know there are people who agree with where I'm coming from.
 
What some people here don't understand is that sometimes you do have to give a job to someone a little less qualified. Full stop. I'm saying this as a conservative leaning moderate white male who had to pay for almost all of my schooling myself. You see, I graduated from college a few years ago, so I understand how unfair that can seem, as finding your first job can be really stressful and I was sometimes overlooked for scholarships since I'm white. But when I was a kid/teenager there weren't a whole lot of black men to look up to in technology.

I distinctly remember when I was a kid really looking up to Thomas Knoll who created Adobe Photoshop. As a kid you can't really relate to rich old white men if you're, say, a young black woman. A company as big as Apple can afford to hire a few people who are a little less qualified in the hopes of bringing a better future. If they don't work out, they don't work out, and let them go. But in all likelihood those employees will catch up and have the potential to be just as good as the rest.

It's often the case that many of these people had a ton of road blocks in their way between getting out of a bad situation and making it to an interview at Apple. If anything, it shows perseverance. I'm a reasonably intelligent person, but as a white guy college was hard enough. Imagine if you had friends from your neighborhood making fun of you for "acting white" just by trying to get an education. Or growing up without a dad, below the poverty line, with four or five brothers and sisters in a violent neighborhood. Giving these people a chance gives kids everywhere some role models of their skin color—instead of, for example, looking up to young men in local gangs. This is going to take a few more generations to sort out, but someone has to start.

Don't think I know what I'm talking about? I work at the University of Missouri. Ask me how many young black students we've been listening to at various community discussions and rallies. Many of these kids are from St. Louis. It's a problem. It's time to fix it, once and for all. As a white guy with respectable friends and family, I thought racism was mostly gone. But it's there, simmering beneath the surface, even after all these years. Just because you personally don't see it doesn't mean it isn't a thing and a big for millions of people. It's all incredibly unfortunate, and very much a thing that tends to self-perpetuate itself due to misunderstandings and different experiences. At the same time, both sides need to handle themselves respectfully. It's how Dr. King was able to make so much progress so quickly.

The people who won't understand this don't understand how privilege, opportunity, education, and socio-economic factors stemming from the history of oppression in the US affect who gets hired in the workplace and why. But this is a fantastic post, so props.
 
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Past is past. Discrimination on the basis of anything but competence is illegal.

There is no justification for choosing one candidate over another on the basis of skin color. That's just racism.
[doublepost=1453223569][/doublepost]

You mean they evolved here? Because I'm pretty sure they wandered over here too.

Lets just say it was already occupied.
 
You laugh, but this is 100% what happens. I worked a a company recently that was obsessed with having a fully diverse workforce. Our manager said outright in a meeting that if your Github profile was a white dude they weren't going to give you a call back. Didn't matter what you're qualifications because "we have too many already". It does happen
Drop in the bucket thinking without understanding why you're manager is saying it. Sigh.
 
To be frank... Because before affirmative action WHITE PEOPLE only looked at WHITE PEOPLE when it came to hiring

I could have been black as tar with multiple degrees from Harvard... Yet a white person with no education would have gotten the job because.. He was WHITE! Fact is fact!

The black guy probably would have been a educated janitor though lol

White powerful people had cultural and racial bias when it came to hiring a black man FOR DECADES, I have no sympathy for white who complains about Affirmative action

This is the whole point, but ya know... "discrimination for the sake of diversity is still discrimination." So, if what I have in quotes is "true," what's the solution? I doubt I'll get it from here.
 
The people who won't understand this don't understand how privilege, opportunity, education, and socio-economic factors stemming from the history of oppression in the US affect who gets hired in the workplace and why. But this is a fantastic post, so props.

Fine, punish the people who committed all the crimes. You can't justify punishing the innocent who happened to have ancestors who did bad things.

Injustice in the pursuit of justice is morally corrupt.
 
America should be more concerned about the EMV migration rather than who gets hired based on their skin color or genitalia.

America needs to realize the shareholders/business owners don't care who gets hired as long as they're qualified for the job.

This reminds me of the NFL crap. Most of the players are of African American culture, yet, they complain when there aren't enough black coaches in the NFL. Where's the outcry that there aren't more white players?

America is in such a downfall. And then people wonder why Donald Trump gets more support from the people than most think... It's because of articles like this.
 
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