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Enygmatic

macrumors 65816
Jan 27, 2015
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People are so ignorant (willfully) when it comes to these types of discussions.

Bottom line: meritocracies work ONLY when the entire playing field is level.

Too many "fields" - talent pool, education opportunities, geographic location, income, access and opportunity, etc. - remain small and exclusive to all but White males. So much so that when a hiring of "other" occurs, it's often automatically assumed to be a case of 'affirmative action'.

That should tell you something.
 

macswitcha2

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2008
1,255
8
Two potential employees.

One white one black

White one slightly more suited for the job
"Oh wait we need to be diverse, sorry white".

This is still racism. You're noticing someone's colour/race, when we are meant to ignore all that and take someone for who they are.
I don't think that's what diversify means or how it's done. What makes you think that's the process? And, given American history, I think being a white man makes it easy for one to not care about his skin tone. It's the black man that has to think more about his skin tone since in our still unfortunately racist society, he/she sticks out like a thumb. Being white means you can easily blend in in regards to color. Makes it easier for interviewers to be more objective. Moreover, I think part of diversifying is being able to give woman and men of color the same opportunities that white men have. That means that you don't skip an application because of tge applicants name or that you show just as much interest in him or her as you will if a white man was in your office.
 
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SteveJobs2.0

macrumors 6502a
Mar 9, 2012
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Well, the most serious fallacy here is that people blindly assume that diversity will lead to innovation. My PHD is in technology and innovation and I can assure you that diversity in of itself is just a minor driver of product innovation success. However, I am sure that someone will discount about 30 years of scientific research with a few anecdotes. :rolleyes:
 

0098386

Suspended
Jan 18, 2005
21,574
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Do you acknowledge that everybody harbors some form of prejudice? Against blacks or whites or obese or aged or outré....
Of course. I'm also able to understand the differences between who is in power and isn't, historically and currently.
 
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macswitcha2

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2008
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The "history" part is correct. Can you substantiate the "present" part?

Unless someone lives under a rock, then sure, introduce me to the rock guy and I'll begin to bring him up to speed.
[doublepost=1453220676][/doublepost]
Totally agree! I think for many the stats are nice to see, but are they hiring for a quota or to get the right person to do the job.

Can it be both? Diversify can also mean having different able and competent people on a team. One's cultural perspective can add lots of value to a team.
 
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DUCKofD3ATH

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Jun 6, 2005
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Unless someone lives under a rock, then sure, introduce me to the rock guy and begin to bring him up to speed.
[doublepost=1453220676][/doublepost]

Can it be both? Diversify can also mean having different able and competent people on a team. One's cultural perspective can add lots of value to a team.

Choosing someone because his skin color is correct is the worst form of racism.
 

KdParker

macrumors 601
Oct 1, 2010
4,793
998
Everywhere
But you're ignoring the fact that hiring a black person, for example, over a white person just to boost some number is also discrimination. Kinda flies in the face of what MLK said, no? Wouldn't that be racism to hire someone and judge them, albeit in a way that helps them, based purely on the color of their skin? Isn't that an insult to that person?
Not missing the point at all, but this is a necessary evil in the short term.

In a few a generations this will be a mute point. Takes time to remove cultural biases.
 

ackmondual

macrumors 68020
Dec 23, 2014
2,432
1,147
U.S.A., Earth
Not a bad spread considering I wasn't expecting a perfect distribution amongst all the attributes. At least there's coverage across the board. IIRC for federal regs regarding diversity, if you're in a place like say, Florida where the local population's majority Hispanic, it's not just enough to hire them to be janitors. They also have to be represented in other types of positions like management, techs, skilled workers, etc.
 
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0098386

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Jan 18, 2005
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People are so ignorant (willfully) when it comes to these types of discussions.

Bottom line: meritocracies work ONLY when the entire playing field is level.

Too many "fields" - talent pool, education opportunities, geographic location, income, access and opportunity, etc. - remain small and exclusive to all but White males. So much so that when a hiring of "other" occurs, it's often automatically assumed to be a case of 'affirmative action'.

That should tell you something.

This is absolutely it.

Fundamentally egalitarianism should be what we all strive for, but unfortunately it doesn't address the fact that there currently inequalities (as you mentioned) that interrupt it. The only way to have an egalitarian, or equal, society is to first reset everything to zero... but since we can't do that the best chance of it is to improve the existing inequalities as best we can.
 

ackmondual

macrumors 68020
Dec 23, 2014
2,432
1,147
U.S.A., Earth
shouldn't it be the best person that fits the job and not about race? just saying...
Should be, but that's not how it ends up working in the real world.

For that matter, not how it works in the tech world either... many companies have gone under when they shouldn't have, whereas many are still around when some of us would love to say "good riddance!"
 

KPOM

macrumors P6
Oct 23, 2010
18,028
7,869
My favorite part is that Asians (which means Far East in American English vs. India/Pakistan in British English) are no longer considered adding to diversity. Big Silicon Valley companies such as Google and Apple would be about 40% "minority" if that were taken into account.
 

DUCKofD3ATH

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This is absolutely it.

Fundamentally egalitarianism should be what we all strive for, but unfortunately it doesn't address the fact that there currently inequalities (as you mentioned) that interrupt it. The only way to have an egalitarian, or equal, society is to first reset everything to zero... but since we can't do that the best chance of it is to improve the existing inequalities as best we can.

Suppose they start improving the equality with your job? It's easy to say, "let a few white guys suffer for the greater good" until it bites you in the butt.

Why is injustice against a few white guys acceptable?
 

\-V-/

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May 3, 2012
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MLK thread 2.0. :/


(I do wonder how many of the "skin colour shouldn't matter" folk are white or unaffected by racism)
Or they desperately want the segregation that is pointing out skin color as some differing trait to die a horrible death, as well as racism in general. I know that's a hard concept to swallow. We're all flesh and blood. We're all human beings. It's time we start seeing each other as simply that ... human beings.
 
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KdParker

macrumors 601
Oct 1, 2010
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My favorite part is that Asians (which means Far East in American English vs. India/Pakistan in British English) are no longer considered adding to diversity. Big Silicon Valley companies such as Google and Apple would be about 40% "minority" if that were taken into account.
To that point times and perceptions change. Soon this 'diversity' thing will be the norm and looked back on as a silly discussion.
 

bpeeps

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May 6, 2011
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Since gender is such a fluid thing these days, when are we going to make the switch to race being a matter of personal choice? I may have been born white, but I'm feeling very hispanic inside. I would like to come out of the closet with socially supressed inner hispanic tendencies, but I feel like I have to keep quiet about it . . .

Why not?
I hope your kids end up being smarter than this, Rachel Dolezal.
 
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