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AppleVision Pro Hype! What Launch Was Ever This Exciting
- Thread starter DeepStuff
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I’m sensing a real defensiveness about this product in the Apple techie universe. I don’t get it because it’s not really being panned by anyone. From what I’ve seen the general tech world has been more positive about VisionPro than they were about the first Apple Watch.
I will say I’m still confused exactly who Apple’s target market is here. I saw the VisionPro commercial during the NFL playoffs yesterday. Are they targeting anyone who has disposable income and is willing to try out a shiny new toy?
I will say I’m still confused exactly who Apple’s target market is here. I saw the VisionPro commercial during the NFL playoffs yesterday. Are they targeting anyone who has disposable income and is willing to try out a shiny new toy?
Are you serious or joking? I didn't use it at all with my iPhone 6S, in all the years I had it. The SE is probably the last of the "home button" iPhones Apple will ever make, so I'm gonna HAVE to get used to an iPhone without a home button eventually. But I'll adapt. It's REQUIRED (i.e., "forced upon you") biometrics I can't/won't accept.
I'm gonna laugh soooo hard, if this ends up being the Apple Lisa or Apple III or G4 Cube or Anniversary Mac of "tech toys" from Apple. In other words... a major fail. But Apple sold their soul to the devil... or Midas... they rarely "fail" these days. They're usually the leader in these types of things.
Well I suspect a lot of you not seeing people pan it that have tried it is they aren't quite sure what to make of it yet, probably with a little bit of being restricted by Apple for the time being if they want to keep getting access to the thing. In general it seems like all the reviewers have the same kinds of complaints that they would have about any kind of headset, along with its exuberant price.
The defensiveness I think comes from a lot of different things. I remember watching the original video and thinking, "Ok when are they going to get to the thing that makes this completely insane and makes VR/AR/XR truly mainstream?" and that never happened in the presentation it was just more of what was already available.
Then I think for me and a lot of other people, we were originally expecting a price of $2000-2500 max, thinking that history would repeat itself like with the iPad when analyst said that would cost $1000 (it was $500), I think the predicted price for AVP was $3k before launch and ended up being a whole ass $500 more which was a shock to most people. A lot of people that are doing mental gymnastics to justify the price will say stuff like "Well the Mac was X amount in todays dollars when it was announced.", which if you know Apple history, Jobs wanted it be much far cheaper than that but lost that battle to Sculley, and well also it was actually something very new to the consumer at the time. When iPhone was revealed, it was pretty expensive for a phone but once again, it was something completely new to consumers.
So for a lot of people it just feels like they wanted to make a "Me too" product and this is after nearly a decade of the CEO teasing it, making us feel like something insane is coming out and when it is finally revealed he barely has **** to say about it and can't even be bothered being seen wearing one.
As for the commercial, it's just a marketing 101 thing really, let people know it's out there and make it seem bigger than it really is. Apple also has a history of announcing new stuff to the general public through popular televised events, even if the product may cost to much for the general public.
I'm serious. I mean, when I used the home button phones, touch id became so ubiquitous and so useful, especially as I used an se 2 for the better part of the pandemic, when face id was not very appealing with the time of masks. Same with the full-screen iphones and face id
Not using biometrics is a very odd thing to do in today's word
But don't forget, all these devices (well not the anniversary mac) led to something so much bigger, and helped define today's mac
A new, in the box of those “failures” are highly valued today. There are a few ways to measure AVP success 😈
I've only recently had TouchID phones. Everything else before it has just been a home button... the iPod Touch I had, then my iPhone 4S, and the 5C after that. I'd still be using my 5C, if I could. But Apple forces obsolescence on us, whether we like it or not. Touch/Face ID is a "security" (i.e. authentication) measure. It has nothing to do with function. So it's very easy for me to avoid it. Until they make something that FORCES it on you, like the VisionPro. I don't like being FORCED to do anything. Do you?
I avoid biometrics like the plague. I don't care WHAT Apple says or anyone else. I believe, at some point, privacy/security will be compromised. We've already seen Apple have to admit people's privacy/security wasn't quite what they touted... but, as to why... we may never know. It's for that very reason, why I don't do biometrics.
The more of YOU that is part of "the system", the more they can control you. When your entire life (financial and more) is on your smartphone... or your tablet... or your laptop... the harder it is to ever be without it.
Case in point: Siggi yogurt is offering $10,000 if you can go without using your smart phone for 1 month. I really wanted to try to do that, because I know I could (personally)... until I realized I couldn't. I do SO much on my iPhone SE... my banking, my crypto... my stocks... paying certain bills... I realized NOT having it for 1 month would be VERY difficult. Emotionally, I could do it, but realistically, I couldn't. Aye, THAR'S the rub!
This belies a pretty profound lack of understanding of how biometrics works on the iPhone in particular, and how factorization of identity works. It's a bit like saying you won't use passwords because passwords can be compromised—it's not the identification method that presents the risk, it's the security of the identity system, and what you're trying to protect.
By casually scanning your posts here on MacRumors, I see you give up all sorts of little tidbits about where you live, hints about what you do, past experiences, computers you use... things that would allow a focused individual to start to build a profile of who you are. It's trivial to turn your Zenforo (the back-end MacRumors uses for the forums) into an IP address which can be used to verify a location against a profile. And on down the line. OpSec is a continuum of decisions, not just avoiding one particular facet of a security system.
That being said, everyone should be allowed to use their technology in whatever manner suits them the best. There are certainly features of my Apple products I don't use for my own reasons as well. I'm not here to convince you otherwise since it seems your beliefs are strongly held and I want to be respectful while at the same time pointing out there may be an opportunity for you to make peace with your objections by taking a more holistic view of security.
Being a voice of warning, doesn't need to be very loud. But you do have to be willing to be seen. Passwords are not YOU. You can change your password. Can you change your fingerprints? Face? Retinas? Those are aspects of YOU. Unique. Unchangable.
Think about it... WHY, do they need to scan your retinas, to use this device? WHY do you have to give them your Facial profile to get one of these $3,500 things? They have to make it SO perfect... and SO secure? WHY? Even if I wanted (and could afford) one of these things, I'm certainly not going to use it to do my regular day-to-day computing on. So, why do I HAVE to have my retina's scanned? Eye tracking, yeah, I get it... cameras for pinch-zoom, whatever... but why the hyper-security of RetinaID? Something is up... I sense it.
I would encourage you to explore what that "it" is you believe and then challenge yourself to ask the question: Is there an easier way for a bad actor to achieve that aim? I believe you're assigning significant potential for misappropriation where it isn't particularly useful. Capituring your biometrics is easy. Trivial, if you interact in public at all. Using it is much harder, because that use is defined by context.
Security systems are designed to protect information that the user finds important. The security data in and of itself is only important because of the time, place, and method by which an identity—which is just information, really—is exchanged.
Consider all the ways to pay with a credit card: Entering the number and expiration date, swiping a magnetic stripe, using the tap to pay on the card, or using tap to pay via NFC on a smart device using a biometrically-secured enclave. Same data, expressed different ways, using different methods, with different levels of risk. If the card number were a one-time use with limited available funds, you might not care about how secure the transaction method was. Your exposure is low. If it was an important card with a high credit limit and you're currently traveling out of the country where losing access to the card due to fraud would be a tremendous inconvenience, you might appreciate that you could prevent the actual card number from being expressed entirely by using a cipher protected by biometrics. Your exposure is high.
Likewise, all Apple devices now employ some level of biometric protection, including the AVP, which is really just a fancy M2-based computer you wear on your face. Apple assumes you have something important to protect, so they offer a variety of ways to do it, each with its own inherent security risks. Again, it's up to you to decide how important your data is. Your data is what should dictate your method for securing it, not an ill-defined unease without foundations in anything empirical.
Security systems are designed to protect information that the user finds important. The security data in and of itself is only important because of the time, place, and method by which an identity—which is just information, really—is exchanged.
Consider all the ways to pay with a credit card: Entering the number and expiration date, swiping a magnetic stripe, using the tap to pay on the card, or using tap to pay via NFC on a smart device using a biometrically-secured enclave. Same data, expressed different ways, using different methods, with different levels of risk. If the card number were a one-time use with limited available funds, you might not care about how secure the transaction method was. Your exposure is low. If it was an important card with a high credit limit and you're currently traveling out of the country where losing access to the card due to fraud would be a tremendous inconvenience, you might appreciate that you could prevent the actual card number from being expressed entirely by using a cipher protected by biometrics. Your exposure is high.
Likewise, all Apple devices now employ some level of biometric protection, including the AVP, which is really just a fancy M2-based computer you wear on your face. Apple assumes you have something important to protect, so they offer a variety of ways to do it, each with its own inherent security risks. Again, it's up to you to decide how important your data is. Your data is what should dictate your method for securing it, not an ill-defined unease without foundations in anything empirical.
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It is interesting product, as for myself, having used Apple products as well since they have existed, this is first product in years I have been truly excited for. Reminds me of getting the original iPhone on launch day, and pulling up ESPN on Safari at the bar, took 1-2 minutes just to load the page, but you knew it was the future. We will see for this, but the first product in a long time that is something different.
I don't use the cloud, either. MY data belongs to ME. I only put into the cloud (other's control) that which I either don't mind others having access to, or have to, to facilitate a need. We all must watch our own backs in this world. I do so, by keeping what is inheritantly ME, in MY control.
I don't think people are being especially defensive either. It's just that some are excited and have one on order and want to have a normal conversation with other people who ordered one without someone butting in and saying how they think it's going to bomb or listing out all the reasons they're not buying one.
Nobody can ever just let it be. So yeah, failure or not, whether I bought one or not, it's just annoying to me that people feel the need to come in here and be Debbie Downer and pee in everyone's corn flakes all the time. Let ONE THREAD just be about people being enthusiastic and excited. JUST ONE.
What I meant by defensiveness is defending VP in a way no Apple product has ever been defended. Almost as if their life depended on this product being a hit. Honestly the fact some are so touchy leads me to believe deep down they may have some reservations but for whatever reason feel they need to be cheerleaders.
I wasn’t referring to people like you. I was more referring to Apple centric tech pundits (like John Gruber) who have their defenses way up in a way they never did with Apple Watch.
Do you feel the same way about the Meta Quest? Like about how ridiculous it looks? Don’t mention “well that’s so much less money!” I’m asking about the look. because the Quest looks absurd. This is definitely unusual, but it’s at least the most elegant looking headset yet
I read Gruber’s website and follow him on social media. Yeah, it can often feel like he’s just explaining things from Apple’s point of view, but his position on Vision Pro doesn’t seem all that different than the average of those that have tried it: The technology is very impressive, it’s great for viewing media, but he’s unsure about other uses. It doesn’t seem like he would find it useful in its current state for browsing the web or writing or whatever else.
He is overselling it in a couple bizarre ways, though: claiming the FOV matches his natural FOV, and that it has higher than Retina resolution. He has poor vision in one eye, so I don’t know how that affects his overall clarity of vision.
Can you link to something where he seems especially defensive? He admits he doesn’t have much experience with VR, and he just bought a Quest 3, presumably so he can compare it to the Vision Pro review unit he’ll undoubtedly get within a few days from now.
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I think my excitement for Vision Pro is two-pronged, now that I've had a weekend to think about what I've just ordered:
1) I am excited about the capabilities and experience. I have watched the WWDC keynote and the Guided Tour videos over and over and my excitement never lessens. Apple always seems to come up with the best versions of the devices I dreamed of having as a kid. (MacBook, iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, etc., anything you could find Penny using on Inspector Gadget.)
2) I have missed the thrill of learning a new platform from the ground up and it's going to be so much fun even just to open the "Tips" app on day 1 of availability. I am an experienced user of VR headsets and have high expectations. I really think this is going to be like using my first iPhone or Mac. It's going to get crapped on a lot in the media for its price, and I don't care. I'm glad it got made at all and have been waiting for something amazing like this for a long time.
1) I am excited about the capabilities and experience. I have watched the WWDC keynote and the Guided Tour videos over and over and my excitement never lessens. Apple always seems to come up with the best versions of the devices I dreamed of having as a kid. (MacBook, iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, etc., anything you could find Penny using on Inspector Gadget.)
2) I have missed the thrill of learning a new platform from the ground up and it's going to be so much fun even just to open the "Tips" app on day 1 of availability. I am an experienced user of VR headsets and have high expectations. I really think this is going to be like using my first iPhone or Mac. It's going to get crapped on a lot in the media for its price, and I don't care. I'm glad it got made at all and have been waiting for something amazing like this for a long time.
For every new and revolutionary category, I’m very hyped. Doesn’t necessarily do with only Apple products, but all that are new and lifestyle-changing.
In 2010, I watched the Avatar movie and was fascinated by the transparent & touchscreen tablet they’re using. Little did I know that in just a few months, I got a chance to have a giant touchscreen device called the iPad. Even today, my family still remembers my excited 13-year-old face when I got this, for me, this futuristic thing. The functionalities, tho, is very limited back then, and it’s heavy. But now you can do WAY more things with the iPad, and the UX is way better now. It’s also the same year our family got the iPhone 3GS, so I’d say these key events began and defined my 2010s.
In 2014, I entered my smart watch era with the Pebble Steel, followed by the Apple Watch that I was lucky to get on the launch day, 4.24.15. The “Series 0” Apple Watch was definitely not perfect, but I still used it for a solid 3+ years.
This year, I feel the same excitement again, but this time, as a developer as well. I was hyped about the MS HoloLens in 2015 but was disappointed about the graphic performance. Tried VR headsets as well, while I never owned one. The Vision Pro is amazing in many ways. It won’t be perfect just like all first-gen, but as a developer and an always early-adopter, this will be another defining event for me. In less than 2 weeks, I’m finally gonna enter my XR era.
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In 2010, I watched the Avatar movie and was fascinated by the transparent & touchscreen tablet they’re using. Little did I know that in just a few months, I got a chance to have a giant touchscreen device called the iPad. Even today, my family still remembers my excited 13-year-old face when I got this, for me, this futuristic thing. The functionalities, tho, is very limited back then, and it’s heavy. But now you can do WAY more things with the iPad, and the UX is way better now. It’s also the same year our family got the iPhone 3GS, so I’d say these key events began and defined my 2010s.
In 2014, I entered my smart watch era with the Pebble Steel, followed by the Apple Watch that I was lucky to get on the launch day, 4.24.15. The “Series 0” Apple Watch was definitely not perfect, but I still used it for a solid 3+ years.
This year, I feel the same excitement again, but this time, as a developer as well. I was hyped about the MS HoloLens in 2015 but was disappointed about the graphic performance. Tried VR headsets as well, while I never owned one. The Vision Pro is amazing in many ways. It won’t be perfect just like all first-gen, but as a developer and an always early-adopter, this will be another defining event for me. In less than 2 weeks, I’m finally gonna enter my XR era.
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I think the whole concept of wearing these things is idiotic. Sure the Apple one is built well and looks nice as a device. Culturally is a symbol of a decline in human connection and will lead us down another rabbit hole of people living in their own reality and not knowing how to interact with others. It will create yet another stage for people to shout from at the detriment of others. It’s where the real dystopia starts. Children being born in a few years will wonder how life got to be so crap and this will be the answer. If you can’t see that from the promo video, then we are doomed.
This is fad that will wear off, as it did before. Much like 3D TV keeps getting revived each generation for a short period.
Sticking to the forum post, I am very unhyped about wearing a helmet that makes me sick and uncomfortable over my head.
Also like others i cannot see any way to implement this in my life besides watching 3D TV which makes me sick.
Sticking to the forum post, I am very unhyped about wearing a helmet that makes me sick and uncomfortable over my head.
Also like others i cannot see any way to implement this in my life besides watching 3D TV which makes me sick.
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