It’s very easy and cheap to rent a business postbox address and virtual landline phone number.
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Apps That Didn't Add 'Trader' Contact Info in the EU Removed From App Store
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Yep, there are some small costs of doing business (if one is actually fitting the Trader definition!)
It's hard for me to be too sympathetic when folks are developing on Macs for iOS devices
This entire chain of tools and ecosystem is not cheap ...I can't imagine a PO box and free VOIP line are suddenly a dealbreaker
…and yet, applications have no problem collecting all my saved phone numbers, IP address, location, etc.
And it’s often the very same developers that provide no trader information about themselves at all.
My understanding is that if it's not done "in connection with your trade, business, craft, or profession—meaning that you’re [not] acting in a professional/business capacity", you aren't a trader.
The quoted part comes direct from Apple.
The amount of ads or IAP's may effect this though.
Indie Dev ≠ makes no money or is a complete hobby side project
The latter wouldn't fit the Trader definition anyhow and you'd be exempt
I guess figure out which it is ... the former isn't a Trader and is exempt, but the latter is a Trader and the rules apply
Why don’t we look at a few real-world examples?
Would you guys provide example of apps by “small indie developers” that you’re actually using?
If your app is full of bugs you should be contactable especially if it’s a paid for app.
No, I understand the concept. Being a small business does not free you from certain common practices, such as providing contact information.
You are correct, one could get a PO Box and separate phone line and then ignore them completely, that is called bad customer service. One can also have a web site and email contact that they choose to ignore, hell the email addy could be fake.
I'm flipping this back on you, your points are not valid. If you want to do business then provide contact information so consumers have recourse if needed. A mailing address and phone number are most certainly a cost of doing business, if you cannot afford them then you might want to choose a different profession.
So I just looked up a PO box in my area, for regular letter size they are $4.50/mo or $54/year. Oh the poor indies!
Indie developers are still classified as a business even if it’s just one person. They have to follow the rules like everyone else.
Everyone’s happy with the EU when they’re getting the charging ports they want.
But when it’s actually something that actually provides a true benefit for the customer, like having contact info for app developers available to customers, all of sudden it’s “no no no! Bad bad bad!”
But when it’s actually something that actually provides a true benefit for the customer, like having contact info for app developers available to customers, all of sudden it’s “no no no! Bad bad bad!”
A frustrating part of this that goes continually overlooked is they also want this information if you want to put out an app for free. People already complain about paid safari extensions to cover the developer account fee, and this entire thing just makes free apps in the EU a no-go. I'm not paying $99 for the developer account and also paying to maintain a phone line and PO Box just to have apps available in a region.
I am aware nothing I personally make is of enough relevance to be missed by folks in the EU, but I doubt I am the only app developer who feels this way.
I am aware nothing I personally make is of enough relevance to be missed by folks in the EU, but I doubt I am the only app developer who feels this way.
You clearly have no idea how harmful leaked consumer data can be?
And you have no idea how quick you are needed to register a business in the EU.
Also you clearly have no idea that even if you ask €0.01 it is a legal contract from which you are paid and you are liable for harm caused by your app?
Even if you are an indie developer you should either ask nothing (no donations either) for your product, or make a tiny, tiny nano-business out of it. IN the latter case you need an address, bank account, phone number, tax number etc.
Yes that is a hassle, but that is the thing if you want to do business.
Who does?
The Trader definition is a self assessment (explicitly not a determination made by Apple)
I have not read all replies so I don't know it it has been mentioned. In the EU you can register a business address for about $60 per year. These are lowest prices that I could find locally on a quick search. I pay about $100 per month but I have a plan with more things in it. My public business phone is $2 a month. I use it only for this purpose. I have a small business. Small enough that I am the CEO, the janitor and everything in between. For under $100 a year you can take care of everything. All these costs can be deducted as business expenses.
I think it's great because it stops some of the scammers. When you register a business address you have to provide and submit some documents to the relevant local authorities.
This is a non-problem. People can either move on or keep arguing about a non-problem.
How are people going to know who they're dealing with if the companies follow your suggestion?
And how do you know that all devs want all customer information?
If businesses (even 1 person can be a business!) are falsifying information, that's a totally different issue
Not defective as it's doing what it's designed to do, but definitely harmful
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^ That is just one example of many that have made their way into the App Store
I'm an indie developer and have had published Mac software since 1992. I have a business address and phone number... and still have products on the EU App Store.
Some people can't even afford periods at the ends of their sentences.
Somehow you can always reason for people to spend more than they already do. I've heard that some people who operate smalls stores have good sofas at home. Let's nickel and dime them out of that!
Why would I gamble with the language of "you may not be considered a trader" just to put out a free app when it comes to fines or other legal action? I'm a software engineer, you could argue that a free project is still inside of my profession.
Wrong. Not only is it a cost of doing business, but a small one compared to the price of a Mac and iOS test devices, home/office broadband, developer enrollments, as well as any legally required business licenses and taxes. Do you really want to download apps from a lazy indie dev who doesn't even care to read up on any local and state laws that apply?
My apps might only buy me coffee, but I spend more on coffee for coding than the rental for a PO Box.