Are Apple going to be able to hold the iPad back without hurting it?

[Piggie]

The only way I could see Apple being defeated in any of these areas is if they forget how to evolve and stay stagnant. Can't see that happening because the competition won't let them.

This last bit you wrote is really all I ask.

As I said (from experience) Steve Jobs for reasons other than those he publicly says decides not to give customers things as he can make more money from Apple by doing so.

He is a businessman, so I cannot blame him for that, and I know most businessmen lie to customers to put the company's interests first.

I just hope the iPad does not suffer due to things like this, and Apple feel forced to offer the customers more, due to the competition also offering customers extra's.

I feel the iPad is going to look out or date before it gets a revamp.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't expect the 2011 iPad to get much of n update, just a few tweaks and the camera's.

By 2012 the competition will have moved forward quite a bit, so then in the time iPad3 that Apple really needs to move to stamp their mark again.

 

[jimmy1984]

Apple does have the advantage of being first out of the gate (successfully), to market and sell tablets.

Some people will always be deceived in thinking more plugs and ports means a better product. That is just not the case. As long as apple continues to try to provide the best product they can...people will wait (within reason) for what they provide.

 

[Night Spring]

I really don't think we need to worry about Apple stopping being innovating, at least while Jobs is at the helm. I think he innovates because he's driven to innovate, not because he's trying to beat any competition. Jobs will keep moving Apple forward even if there is NO competition -- well he might get more stubborn about doing things just the way he wants them, but he'll just keep right on innovating no matter what anyone else is doing. That's why Apple is where they are today.

 

[Piggie]

Apple does have the advantage of being first out of the gate (successfully), to market and sell tablets.

Some people will always be deceived in thinking more plugs and ports means a better product. That is just not the case. As long as apple continues to try to provide the best product they can...people will wait (within reason) for what they provide.

That one statement that I've heard a number of times, even from Steve Jobs in interviews is the one sentence that annoys me the most

They do not try and produce the best they can. They produce what they want to produce.

They could fit BluRay drives into iMacs. Those drives would be, in a practical sensible world the best drives they could fit into their machines.

If they fitted BluRay drives, then they would be fitting the best drives they can for their customers.

But they do not as they wish to protect iTunes movie download sales that cannot offer 1080p quality.

They are not fitting the best drives they can as it may lose them some money as some people would buy the movie on a higher quality BluRay disc.

So it's blatantly clear (and I use this just as one tiny example) Apple DO NOT produce the best THEY CAN for their customers.

The produce what THEY WANT to produce.

I don't blame them for doing so, but also I don't have to like them for doing so.

 

[poloponies]

What exactly is the point of expressing frustration at anticipated perceptions of shortcomings in the iPad?

Either the next version(s) will meet buyers' expectations and compare favorably with the competition or it won't. Consumers have an easy choice, either buy it or not. Apple has to think about how it will fit into their product line without hurting sales of more expensive devices as well as future growth and introduction of new, complementary, products.

Archos sells a single line of devices and can sink or swim based on the success of that line. They want to jam in every possible incentive for buyers in hopes of making the device attractive enough.

If Archos has a more attractive product for certain buyers then they will buy it; ditto Apple and iPad. Not every device has to have every feature to make it attractive on the lowest-common-denominator level.

My iPad meets my expectations on nearly all levels. I have yet to use FaceTime on my iPhone 4 and doubt I ever will. Adding a camera to the iPad won't make it more attractive to me. I don't anticipate buying the next version unless it introduces some feature I haven't yet considered that makes it worthwhile for me. Apple won't suffer if I skip a generation (or two). It may entice new buyers with FaceTime and a camera (or two) and that's good. But it doesn't have to entice every buyer with every iteration.

 

[Carouser]

So it's blatantly clear (and I use this just as one tiny example) Apple DO NOT produce the best THEY CAN for their customers.

What? 'The best product' can't be determined by adding up a series of 'best components', particularly when those components would completely explode the price. There is no objective measure of 'best product' anyway, and the design of any device will make trade-offs.

If Apple makes things people think are worth the money then those things will sell. Satisfying consumers is the only standard they have to meet, and this is shown by their continued sales. They don't care if you don't like it, and they shouldn't.

***

When I first used the iPad I said 'Wow, this is amazing. Look at all the things it lets me do.' I never said 'Oh, look at what it doesn't do.' The thought never entered my mind.

After using one for a while, it still hasn't.

In other words, Apple hasn't had to convince me to like the iPad. When competitors put in other 'features and functions' it's not because I need them or because they are useful, it's because they are trying to give me reasons why I should like their product and have thus already lost.

 

[Zcott]

when i first used the ipad i said 'wow, this is amazing. Look at all the things it lets me do.' i never said 'oh, look at what it doesn't do.' the thought never entered my mind.

qft.

 

[poloponies]

What? 'The best product' can't be determined by adding up a series of 'best components', particularly when those components would completely explode the price. There is no objective measure of 'best product' anyway, and the design of any device will make trade-offs.

If Apple makes things people think are worth the money then those things will sell. Satisfying consumers is the only standard they have to meet, and this is shown by their continued sales. They don't care if you don't like it, and they shouldn't.

***

When I first used the iPad I said 'Wow, this is amazing. Look at all the things it lets me do.' I never said 'Oh, look at what it doesn't do.' The thought never entered my mind.

After using one for a while, it still hasn't.

In other words, Apple hasn't had to convince me to like the iPad. When competitors put in other 'features and functions' it's not because I need them or because they are useful, it's because they are trying to give me reasons why I should like their product and have thus already lost.

People on this and related forums also have to understand that they're a small part of the overall picture. The average iPad buyer won't even use (or notice the absence of) most of the features they wish for.

 

[JulianL]

... They could fit BluRay drives into iMacs. Those drives would be, in a practical sensible world the best drives they could fit into their machines.

If they fitted BluRay drives, then they would be fitting the best drives they can for their customers.

But they do not as they wish to protect iTunes movie download sales that cannot offer 1080p quality.

They are not fitting the best drives they can as it may lose them some money as some people would buy the movie on a higher quality BluRay disc.

So it's blatantly clear (and I use this just as one tiny example) Apple DO NOT produce the best THEY CAN for their customers.

The produce what THEY WANT to produce. ...

There's another side to your argument above though. There is no single Apple customer that they can do the best they can for, there is a diverse population of users who will all have different requirements. Apple could clearly put a BluRay drive into the iMacs but that would cost more than the current drive so if they wanted to keep the same margin on the iMac it would mean that it got more expensive and, for those users who don't like watching movies on a PC and who prefer to do large backups to portable USB drives (e.g. me) then Apple have just made a worse product for people like me because they've hiked the price to put in something that I never wanted in the first place. Some users might even go further in the other direction and question having a CD drive in the thing at all.

If you're saying that Apple's margins are too high and a BluRay should be in there for the same price then that's a different argument, although I could still invoke my argument above and say that, if Apple were to reduce its margins, I'd rather have the price lowered than have a BluRay drive while keeping the prices the same.

Apple are constantly having to do a balancing act to come out with the blend of features that will at least reasonably address the requirements of the greatest number of users. Personally I think that they do a pretty good job of it but there will always be people who are unhappy with the choices made.

- Julian

 

[herbiehancock00]

Their flagship is the iPhone.

As long as there's several million people willing to be told what to buy, the iPad will sell. That's been the strategy for a couple years now and it seems to have worked.

No one is telling anyone to buy anything. So many people buy the iphone because it is a great product. If it really is indeed a ****** product there is no way it make such sales numbers.

 

[Built]

The iPad has all but killed the netbook market. I have no doubt it will do the same to competitor tablets.

 

[lilo777]

It might be nice to have a built-in SD slot rather than having to carry around the camera connection kit, but USB? HDMI? Really?

For what exactly?

AirPlay = no need for HDMI

That's assuming that all people have ATV. Most don't. This limits iPad usefulness.

Card slots? Really? You want that?

You don't? Really?

 

[bri1212]

the ipad is a different toll for different people

As I read the comments on this board, I can see that many people use the Ipad for many different things.

The OP, in his first post, is wanting an ipad that will use flash, ( don't hold your breath ), that also has HDMI ports, and Built in card slots, and USB ports.
Now for me, the only thing I want out of that list is a USB port. And I am not excited about that at all. It would not make me want to buy the ipad more, if it had the USB port. I watch movies on my ipad when I travel, but most times I watch movies on my TV, and i would never think of watching a movie on my TV from my Ipad. So for me, the HDMI connection would be superfluous.

In a later Post the OP is annoyed that Steve, won't put blueray in the imacs, and says that Apple doesn't make the best machines that they can for their customer. But a blueray drive is not any better then a DVD drive at reading code, or data, it is only beneficial for reading Blueray movies. Now I don't really care about Blueray movies, I mean, I think they look cool and are great, but I have never paid extra for a Blueray Movie. Again I only would watch a movie on my computer if I was traveling. Otherwise I would watch it on my home tv. So again, another example of an upgrade that would be an expensive waste for me. I realize that for some people Blueray is the thing, and they have to have it.

Now I have heard Steve's rationalization for not adding Blueray to his macs. Because the next wave of technology is not going to be on a disc. I have a feeling you will be seeing what he is talking about sooner rather than later.

The only thing I am really expecting in the ipad 2, is a slightly higher resolution screen, one Camera ( for Facetime ), maybe higher memory and RAM. and with just those handful of upgrades, I think it will still outsell any tablet that is scheduled to be released in 2011.

 

[wyneken]

Remember when the iPad had just been introduced, but wasn't on sale yet, there was a catchy little graphic floating around with a side-by-side comparison of the iPad vs. some HP tablet PC from several years earlier?

The point of the graphic was that the HP had all these important features like ports and slots and expandable memory and an optical drive and all kinds of stuff, while iPad had almost nothing. Conclusion: an X-year old HP tablet was way better than this oversized iPod touch. Prediction: major iFail.

Missing from this comparison was any attention to the fact that the HP tablet had disappeared without a trace, despite all its advanced features that customers were clamoring for.

The proper conclusion would have been that the old-fashioned way of thinking about tablet devices — basically as keyboard-free notebook computers — had utterly failed in the marketplace. No one at the time could be certain whether Apple's rethinking of this product niche (which the OP characterizes as Steve Jobs telling customers what they want) would be any more successful.

Now the OP is warning us that Apple is going to fall behind the competition if it doesn't quickly start putting in all that stuff that the HP tablet had several years ago, which is where the market is heading. And this does indeed seem to be the driving thought behind some early competing devices, like the new HP Slate, which seems headed for amazing sales figures in the neighborhood of 9,000 units in CY 2010.

If indeed there is a large market out there of people wanting to live in 2006 only with a faster processor and a smaller screen, then Apple is SOL. But Apple seems to think the future lies in ... well, you know, the future. We'll see who's right on this one.

 

[gophukyourself]

I can't see them putting HDMI ports on the iPad as Airplay should allow you to get the output on your TV.

How is that a better solution than using an HDMI cable?

 

[OSMac]

More RAM and flash in a iPad would wipe out any competition.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

Apple will make whatever products that the highest number of people will buy. If the market (consumers, businesses, etc.) clearly wanted an HDMI port, then why have so many people bought iPads which don't have HDMI ports? A select few will be the Apple fanboys, but that is a minority group.

Blu-ray is DOA. Almost none of my friends have a player, only one has a computer with a drive, and no one has any movies on Blu-ray. But, almost every single person has a Netflix subscription. This isn't relevant to the iPad part of this thread, but adding Blu-ray won't increase sales. Sure, a select few are Blu-ray fanboys who are dying for one. But most computers sold are without Blu-ray drives. I could care less, Blu-ray doesn't make my life any better. Or anyone around me. Blank discs are expensive, and DVDs and CDs are more compatible with the computers and/or clients I work with. My community is middle class, which represents the single largest group in the US. If we don't have it, the poor class won't either. Only the rich will but that is a minority. I'm saying, it's more likely that someone, regardless of how much money they make, will NOT have Blu-ray than having it and owning enough content to make it worthwhile.

HDMI ports are unnecessary. You need content on the iPad to display, but where is that content coming from? Any non HD content can be display through VGA and an audio cable. Every HDTV has a VGA port and audio in. Older non HD TVs have VGA and audio in more than HDMI. The graphics on any tablet won't be enough to push 1080P content. This includes the Galaxy Tab, Playbook and other tablets right now. Streaming is becoming more popular and Netflix has VGA output in their app. The problem with HDMI is you have little content to display. And too much trouble to set it all up.

USB ports are useless. Do you want to plug in a printer? Keyboard? Flash drive? AirPrint is out there, keyboard can be Bluetooth or plugged in through the Camera Conection kit's USB adapter. I don't use flash drives anymore. Nor do I use my iPad to do anything with a flash drive. If you really need a USB port, the Camera Connection kit has a USB port adapter as well as a SD card slot adapter. AirPrint works with almost any printer, Apple pulled it due to patent trolling which is completely out of their control. You only need to modify three files to get it working on a Mac. And Windows will probably get a utility app that some developer out there will write that does AirPrint for them and is compatible with AirPrint. And most people don't print at all. I rarely print stuff with my computer, much less on my iPad. Anything serious should be done with a computer

Flash doesn't work well on mobile devices or tablets. It doesn't work well for anything, computer or otherwise. Most video sites are switching to HTML5. Another portion of the flash content on the web are ads. I don't want ads. iAds are a good compromise. Google's mobile ad stuff is pretty good, better than the flash web ads that I see often on my computer. And the flash games don't work at all on touch screens, Adobe is pulling stuff out of their behinds saying that it works. A mouse and keyboard input is much different than touchscreen input. Flash is no exception. It should be killed, not because of the iPad or anything. It sucks on any and every platform.

The iPad is more of a content consumption device than anything else. Business love it because the software is easy to use and applications are super easy to write. I love it because it's fun and easy to use. If I wanted to get real work done, then I'd go to my computer. The iPad is for mobile use, not to be tied down with cables. I rarely need to use or even think about video output. Or a USB port for flash drives or printers and other USB devices.

Apple didn't try to shoehorn in stuff like HDMI ports and USB ports and SD card slots for a reason. Most people DON'T use them that often. A few people do and therefore there is the Camera connection kit and keyboard dock. You can even plug in a keyboard with the Camera Connection kit USB adapter. The iPad, it's simple, elegant, easy to use and write software for. Not ugly, with horrible software that is messy and hard to write software for, like Android. If you want HDMI ports that you use once a year or USB ports that you use once a month, then buy an Android tablet. Instead of dealing with little stuff, you have to deal with bigger issues like poor software, little apps, no games at all, viruses and data theft. I want to the basics done right, not the extra fluff done horribly. The software is the basics and the extra fluff are the ports that I rarely use.

 

[blackNBUK]

How is that a better solution than using an HDMI cable?

For starters you won't have a cable trailing from your TV to your couch. I've also found using my iPad with anything plugging into it to be an unwieldy experience. On a deeper level I think AirPlay will make showing something on a big screen a much smoother and more immediate process. Instead of getting up, finding an HDMI cable, plugging the cable into both the TV and tablet and then starting your video AirPlay should make the process as easy as choosing a video and then choosing AirPlay.

Of course AirPlay is a much more expensive solution, especially if it's the only thing you use an AppleTV for. However the fact that it exists doesn't mean that Apple will never add HDMI output to the iPad. It already supports composite, component and VGA video output; adding HDMI output to that list doesn't seem like a huge stretch.

 

[joeconvert]

have you actually seen the Flash performance on these devices? It is a joke. I am no Apple apologist, but come on... Adobe should be ashamed with all the claims they have made.

 

[Scuby]

People thing that if the iPad had a mini hdmi connector in the side of the unit that you could connect to your or a friends tv to watch a 720 or 1080p movie being streamed from your iPad. That would be a bad thing?

On its own, not particularly bad. But then if someone said "wouod you rather have a CD drive included or not", what would your answer be? Would it be "well, it's an extra feature, so all features are good and i want it even if i don't expect to use it", or do you consider the trade-offs in doing so? Ok so the trade-off of a HDMI port is certainly less, but if you start thinking that a HDMI port isn't very big, and a USB isn't very big, and we should probably have firewire in there too, and actually lots of projectors only have VGA so we should have one of those connectors too... All of a sudden all of these small compromises turn the iPad into a 3kg monster!

David

 

[jclardy]

HDMI output is not worth it in my opinion. Your iPad would have to be right next to your TV, not to mention the fact that you would have to have the wire hanging around your TV in the first place. Want to pause the video? go and walk over to the TV so you can use the screen. It just isn't a nice experience.

Airplay solves that in a more elegant way IMO.

I would really like a card reader built in. As long as they improve the iPad Photos app at some point, right now it is so limited in capabilities. The camera connection kit is cool but it is kind of a pain to keep it around.

A mini usb port would not be useful because you would need an adapter for all of your devices anyways. A standard USB port could be useful if they add more support to iOS.

 

[Piggie]

On its own, not particularly bad. But then if someone said "wouod you rather have a CD drive included or not", what would your answer be? Would it be "well, it's an extra feature, so all features are good and i want it even if i don't expect to use it", or do you consider the trade-offs in doing so? Ok so the trade-off of a HDMI port is certainly less, but if you start thinking that a HDMI port isn't very big, and a USB isn't very big, and we should probably have firewire in there too, and actually lots of projectors only have VGA so we should have one of those connectors too... All of a sudden all of these small compromises turn the iPad into a 3kg monster!

David

I know you can keep adding and adding and adding.

However If we put our sensible heads on, there are now a small handful of common ports and connectors that would be handy to have as standard.

A post in side side for a card would add probably next to zero weight and not cause any issues to those who did not wish to use that particular port, whilst at the same time being useful to people who did wish to use a certain port.

 

[Piggie]

HDMI output is not worth it in my opinion. Your iPad would have to be right next to your TV, not to mention the fact that you would have to have the wire hanging around your TV in the first place. Want to pause the video? go and walk over to the TV so you can use the screen. It just isn't a nice experience.

Airplay solves that in a more elegant way IMO.

I would really like a card reader built in. As long as they improve the iPad Photos app at some point, right now it is so limited in capabilities. The camera connection kit is cool but it is kind of a pain to keep it around.

A mini usb port would not be useful because you would need an adapter for all of your devices anyways. A standard USB port could be useful if they add more support to iOS.

My only feeling (as in my main posting) is what will apple do, if over the next year of two almost all other tablets come with a mini HDMI out for streaming video to a modern TV.

Are Apple (and this is my original question) going to deliberately hold back the iPad from getting this feature than many/most other tablets offer customers, for no other reason than Pig Headedness?

 

[Carouser]

Would it be "well, it's an extra feature, so all features are good and i want it even if i don't expect to use it", or do you consider the trade-offs in doing so? ... All of a sudden all of these small compromises turn the iPad into a 3kg monster!

+1
I'm picturing the car Homer Simpson designed.

Blu-ray is DOA. Almost none of my friends have a player, only one has a computer with a drive, and no one has any movies on Blu-ray. But, almost every single person has a Netflix subscription. This isn't relevant to the iPad part of this thread, but adding Blu-ray won't increase sales.

Yup. Blu-ray was hyped as a new format; in practice it's just going to be a quiet compatibility issue. As production costs lower, blu-ray capability will either disappear totally or simply be standard on any disc drive, and thus not be on people's radar - people won't ask for it as a feature any more than they care about which drivers are preinstalled on their computer or the speed of their CD-drive (or something like that, if you get my point). The important issue will be whether a device has a disc drive or not, that's it (see the MBA sub-forum).

 

[Carouser]

My only feeling (as in my main posting) is what will apple do, if over the next year of two almost all other tablets come with a mini HDMI out for streaming video to a modern TV.

Are Apple (and this is my original question) going to deliberately hold back the iPad from getting this feature than many/most other tablets offer customers, for no other reason than Pig Headedness?

No, if they hold back that feature it will be for reasons other than Pig Headedness.

If they lose sales etc. because of no mini HDMI out then they will either compete by including mini HDMI in a consequent iteration or by offering an alternative to mini HDMI (streaming or whatever). However, to say now that Apple should be offering it doesn't hold, since there is no evidence that there is sufficient demand to warrant such an inclusion.

It's like saying 'since current iPods have cameras and touch screens then Apple was wrong to not include those features in earlier iterations and willfully held iPods back'.