Are Apple going to be able to hold the iPad back without hurting it?

[Ciclismo]

So, two pals with iPads meet and one wants to pass a file to another. How do you do this? I see, it's going to be possible in the future even though people were able to do this for decades. Something is really messed up. Besides, why to paid to the cloud for this simple transfer if one can do it locally?

Dropbox is free. So is box.net. So are e-mail attachments if you are using G-mail, Yahoo!, hotmail, etc. etc. etc. The Cloud is often free to use. The only thing missing is the ability to create an ad-hoc network between two devices in the absence of internet access. But how often are two people wit two iPads going to be somewhere without internet access at the same time?

So, you visit your friend. You have a video on your iPad that you want to show on a big screen TV. It turns out your friend does not have ATV. What do you do? Carry ATV with you? Well, considering that Apple customers are used to carrying all kinds of adapters anyways , perhaps, it's not such a big deal but still... Why not to add a port? Is it about profits, ideology or something else?

I'd rather have a couple of adapters for the most common connections that I use rather than a myriad of connectors on a mobile device - some people need/want HDMI, some want IEEE, USB, mini-USB etc. Where do you draw the line? If you add one, you will have many crying for the other. But the more you add to the device a) the larger it becomes, b) the more expensive it becomes, c) the more likely it is to become compromised by dust as there are more crevices where it can enter (or where you kid can shove his chewing gum).

 

[imacken]

And you can always email each other, or use a free cloud service, if it's too big to email.

Have you tried uploading a file of several hundred Mb (or a Gb or two!) to a cloud service?

 

[Ciclismo]

Have you tried uploading a file of several hundred Mb (or a Gb or two!) to a cloud service?

All the time - it's just as tedious as passing data through a USB connection (unless you are still on dial-up). The advantage is that once it's in the "Cloud" it is always accessible wherever there is internet, and for anybody you chose to. Saves risking a virus from someones memory stick.

 

[imacken]

All the time - it's just as tedious as passing data through a USB connection (unless you are still on dial-up)-

Are you serious?!? If so, then you're using the wrong Flash drives, or a wi-fi connection on your iPad that is beyond anything that the rest of us could only dream about!

 

[Ciclismo]

Are you serious?!? If so, then you're using the wrong Flash drives, or a wi-fi connection on your iPad that is beyond anything that the rest of us could only dream about!

Probably the former as they were cheap drives. But even then, the advantges of using a cloud storage tend to outweigh the speed benefits of other connections, in my opinion, for everything except for video.

 

[imacken]

Probably the former as they were cheap drives. But even then, the advantges of using a cloud storage tend to outweigh the speed benefits of other connections, in my opinion, for everything except for video.

My experience is very different.
On wi-fi, uploading a 100Mb file to the Cloud is bad enough, but trying to do that sort of transfer over 3G is, well, pointless.
So, in this '2 mates meeting' scenario, having a Flash drive would do the job in seconds, whereas uploading and downloading to/from the Cloud is cumbersome and slow.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Cloud and couldn't live without it for syncing my files across devices, etc. but in terms of the scenario we are talking about here, Flash drive wins hands down!

 

[Night Spring]

My experience is very different.
On wi-fi, uploading a 100Mb file to the Cloud is bad enough, but trying to do that sort of transfer over 3G is, well, pointless.
So, in this '2 mates meeting' scenario, having a Flash drive would do the job in seconds, whereas uploading and downloading to/from the Cloud is cumbersome and slow.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Cloud and couldn't live without it for syncing my files across devices, etc. but in terms of the scenario we are talking about here, Flash drive wins hands down!

If you seriously need to do this often, just jailbreak your iPad and install iFile, then get a camera connection kit and carry it with you. I, for one, am glad that Apple didn't saddle me with a port I'll rarely use.

 

[imacken]

If you seriously need to do this often, just jailbreak your iPad and install iFile, then get a camera connection kit and carry it with you. I, for one, am glad that Apple didn't saddle me with a port I'll rarely use.

I don't ever do it. I was just responding to what others said about the '2 mates' scenario.

 

[Night Spring]

I don't ever do it. I was just responding to what others said about the '2 mates' scenario.

Well then. How often do people actually need to do this?

 

[ohio.emt]

I vote for an Ir port for file transfers.

That takes me back.

 

[imacken]

Well then. How often do people actually need to do this?

Maybe I don't have any 'mates' and that's why I don't have the problem!

 

[Foxile]

I know this is wildly off topic, from what the OP posted, but it's heading in that direction anyway

I know that a large majority of MR posters are in the US, but there are a lot of ipod/pad/phone users outside of the States and we often don't have access to the fibre broadband connections at home, like most of you guys. I'm lucky enough to live in a cabled area in the UK, but if I take my iPad to my Mum's house and try to use her ADSL connection to upload anything of a 'decent' size, I'm there for ages.

It's all well and good talking about the cloud, if you're moving around your own countrty, so you only pay the providers standard data charges on 3G or whatever. My mobile phone provider in the UK bundles unlimited data with my iPhone, but charges a whopping £6 ( $10 ) per Mb while I'm here in Bahrain. That's standard for roaming charges in non-EU countries, from UK providers.

For me, a micro-USB ( and once it's available, someone would make a micro-USB to SD/CF/MS adapter ) slot would be a real boon, as my only other option is to try and find a coffee shop where they offer a wireless service and I know it'd be quicker to write the whole thing out on paper and send by carrier pigeon, the connection is that slow !

 

[Night Spring]

Maybe I don't have any 'mates' and that's why I don't have the problem!

LOL. Point is, you argued for a theoretical need that you personally don't have. Makes me wonder how many people who decry the lack of USB, HDMI and whatever other ports on the iPad would actually use them if the iPad had them, and how many are just asking for something that they think might be theoretically useful to somebody at some point.

 

[zhenya]

That one statement that I've heard a number of times, even from Steve Jobs in interviews is the one sentence that annoys me the most

They do not try and produce the best they can. They produce what they want to produce.

They could fit BluRay drives into iMacs. Those drives would be, in a practical sensible world the best drives they could fit into their machines.

If they fitted BluRay drives, then they would be fitting the best drives they can for their customers.

But they do not as they wish to protect iTunes movie download sales that cannot offer 1080p quality.

They are not fitting the best drives they can as it may lose them some money as some people would buy the movie on a higher quality BluRay disc.

So it's blatantly clear (and I use this just as one tiny example) Apple DO NOT produce the best THEY CAN for their customers.

The produce what THEY WANT to produce.

I don't blame them for doing so, but also I don't have to like them for doing so.

Best is not only defined by maximum hardware specs. Bluray is still a small time player in content distribution, and is horribly crippled by the DRM requirements stipulated by the movie industry. On every computer I've ever seen bluray, the owner was constantly fighting the software, just to watch a movie. Now perhaps Apple could lend their magic touch to it, and fix those issues, but given how embedded someone else's copy protection code is in the bluray standard, it's no surprise that Apple decided to stay away. They prefer to guarantee a user experience, and probably felt like the risks outweighed the rewards in this situation.

Anyone who complains that Apple is leaving out their favorite port, or should add this or that feature, just doesn't get Apple's philosophy at all. Jobs has been quoted as saying I'm as proud of the products we have not done as the ones we have done. Leaving extra stuff out of a product is virtually their mission statement. And judging by their success, it works. There are thousands of computer electronics companies making mediocre products that have every feature and connector you could ever want, yet there is only one Apple. Strange how that works.

 

[Piggie]

I suppose it all depends on the world you live in as to how you feel about this.

If you live in the "small" high tech glossy corporate IT world where you have large IT departments, HR departments, the latest computers on people's desks, everyone using the same latest phones, high speed broadband etc etc.

Then you may have no idea and genuinely fail to understand others that have problems

If however you live like the majority with not so great broadband (even if you have broadband) internet, old PC's. Perhaps even people in 2010 asking you to at work to copy some photo's of a floppy disk for them, a whole mix and mesh of hardware that's running Windows 98, NT, or perhaps XP if you are lucky.

With a boss that's going to scream at you as you can't read the item he's given you as either you don't have that port, you can't read that format, or you need to sync, but can only do that on your home computer, not your work one as iTunes does not allow that.

Then this shiny tablet may look like an utter waste of space.

It is a toy more than a tool I would say.

That's not an insult.

It's like a REAL tradesman's set of tools for going work on your home, compared to your small designer toolbox of very nice and shiny tool that only do a few jobs.

The person doing the real work has not time to mess about with things that may or may not work depending on what they come up against, they need something that can do anything they throw at it and do it well.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

I guess I'm saying that apple cannot forever just assume everyone will buy their product just because it's apple despite the specs.

People have bought the iPad because it's the best one, the first decent one. But I hope apple don't feel this is enough.

Gone are the days where just being apple is enough and I'm certain if other products come along that offer more in the future people will jump ship.

Of course Mac owners, apple lovers will buy the apple product but that's not the majority.

I just want apple to stay at the top as it's the best, not just due to the sticker on the back.

I'm personally prepared to make some sacrifices, but I'm not sticking with any product If there are a world of better ones out there.

The biggest thing apple could do for me would be to put in some card slots and play back video in all popular formats without conversion.

I bought the iPad mainly because I needed a tablet and there where only prototypes and empty promises of products that were never released.
I waited for about 3 months, hoping for another tablet loaded with features to be launch.

I got tired of waiting, and after playing for the iPad at the store over several days, I decided to take the risk and get it under the condition of returning it if I didn't like it.

The first week I almost returned it, then I started loving it. What love the most is that you can pick it up anytime you want without the fear it may freeze or not start or take forever to respond.

I have now seen some of the new tablets such as the one T-Mobile sells, and despite the extra ports and memory slot and open Android OS, I found the device appearance cheap and flimsy at first, but it was the $40/month for unlimited 3G what became a real deal breaker for me.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

I vote for an Ir port for file transfers.

That takes me back.

Heheh! That used to be a must have feature years ago, even after Bluetooth came out.
The greatest thing about ir port was being able to use it as a universal remote control. I remember an iPaq I used to have, being able to change the TV channels and adjusting the volume of the TV at some restaurants.

 

[294307]

I don't think Apple are going to hurt the iPad; it's market share or its viability via not including HDMI ports, USB ports and other stuff the competition appears to be including on the basis of competition to what the iPad "lacks". Reason being is I think Apple sees iPad as a really, really important product (and probably Jobs does too) - so I doubt they would exclude features they feel would hurt the iPad in any way.

I think a USB port is not necessarily required but my concern with the iPad is the lack of simplicity of transferring documents to an iPad from, say, a USB pen drive. Sure, it's as simple as plugging the USB drive into your Mac/Windows PC and transferring the document via selecting the device in the iTunes application - but it would be better if you can transfer iWork/Office documents and pictures from a USB drive direct on the iPad, perhaps through some adapter if Apple cannot see any reason to include a USB port on the iPad (I don't own an iPad as of now so I am presuming from what I know so far that you can't do this). But transferring documents that are on your computer in general is also a little complicated, last time I heard is that you have to go into iTunes, select the iPad from the device list and go to the Applications pane. Most people probably would not know you had to do this and would have to go Googling for the answer. I understand you can download Office/iWork files and image files direct on the iPad, though.

I have to agree on the camera side of things - this is what the iPad clearly lacks right now. Perhaps there is some technical reason Apple didn't include a camera - maybe because it is a new product after all and they just want to include the features that make the product great for now, and improve on it with the same policy in mind in the future. But a camera would make it so much better, allowing Skype to add video support to their app on the iPad (and hopefully Microsoft's too - if it doesn't already for iPhone/iPod touch?). I personally would prefer to have a front-facing camera on the iPad than not, as I would then be able to chat to friends and family (with the added benefit of multitasking that's coming in 4.2)

Flash though, as much as it wouldn't be too much of a problem without it - there's a few online games I play which are made using Flash - although they wouldn't be suitable for a touch screen tablet at all, there are some games that are completely click based and would work fine on the iPad - if Apple agreed to work with Adobe to bring Flash to the iPad. I wouldn't mind too much if Flash used more battery life as I'd just plug it in for the times I'd use Flash, but it would degrade battery life more often than not because there are a lot of adverts on many websites we visit every day that are made using Flash. So the answer would be to include a click-to-activate-flash on a specific part of a web page, like you see in plugins for FireFox, etc. But it does make it a bit "messy" and it's clear Apple (or Jobs - whatever) doesn't want this. Sometimes their technical decisions are not communicated correctly to the public so we have a different perception of some technical decision they have made and so they get bad publicity but I think the decision to exclude Flash from their platform is a somewhat acceptable decision, because who knows - Adobe might ship a Flash version for the iPad that drains battery life significantly, or makes the iPad really warm. I think Apple would rather take the drama over banning Flash than unhappy customers over crap battery life.

In regards to BluRay, Apple has stated before (or at least Jobs has to customer e-mails - but not enough to let lots of customers know why), why they don't think BluRay is worth sticking into Macs, probably because more people are downloading movies online and that other methods could well meet what BluRay offers (the 1080p quality or something?) (it's more convenient in a way too - to download it online - I mean via iTunes or some other legal source lol - but I know there are many customers out there that use BluRay all the time and that would be the reason they won't buy a Mac).

 

[Night Spring]

If however you live like the majority with not so great broadband (even if you have broadband) internet, old PC's. Perhaps even people in 2010 asking you to at work to copy some photo's of a floppy disk for them, a whole mix and mesh of hardware that's running Windows 98, NT, or perhaps XP if you are lucky.

With a boss that's going to scream at you as you can't read the item he's given you as either you don't have that port, you can't read that format, or you need to sync, but can only do that on your home computer, not your work one as iTunes does not allow that.

Well, sure, if I worked in an environment like that, I wouldn't try to use the iPad for work at all. I'd keep it strictly for personal purposes only. And yes, I'm lucky that me and my partner ARE the IT department at our place of work -- we added a wifi router at work just so I could hook up my iPad.

But you know, expecting Apple to make products that work in that kind of an environment -- it just isn't going to happen. Their whole mode of operation is to ruthlessly cut support for older technology, even ones that they helped disseminate in the first place. They were the first to cut out floppy drives, they are cutting firewire, and now they are well on their way to cutting optical drives, and I expect them to move more and more to wireless connectivity, leaving out more and more ports from even their notebooks and desktops in the coming years.

 

[Carouser]

The person doing the real work has not time to mess about with things that may or may not work depending on what they come up against, they need something that can do anything they throw at it and do it well.

lol at this populist rant where the iPad is for high-class pampered people, unlike us hard-working blue-collar tech types who do 'real' work (I guess everyone else does 'fake' work).

What kind of person knows their job demands, recognizes they encounter conditions where they need a lot of flexibility in compatibility, probably already has the tools necessary, and then faults the iPad for not being able to replace everything in that workplace?

First the complaint was that we couldn't go to a friend's house and show our movies on their TV. Then it was we can't transfer a 100MB file to the iPad via USB (under bizarre hypothetical constraints like extreme urgency, and no WiFi or any other computer in the vicinity). Now the complaint is that the iPad is too effete and limited to serve the noble journeymen of the computing world, who for unexplained reasons have nothing but an iPad at their disposal to do their work.

 

[poloponies]

lol at this populist rant where the iPad is for high-class pampered people, unlike us hard-working blue-collar tech types who do 'real' work (I guess everyone else does 'fake' work).

What kind of person knows their job demands, recognizes they encounter conditions where they need a lot of flexibility in compatibility, probably already has the tools necessary, and then faults the iPad for not being able to replace everything in that workplace?

First the complaint was that we couldn't go to a friend's house and show our movies on their TV. Then it was we can't transfer a 100MB file to the iPad via USB (under bizarre hypothetical constraints like extreme urgency, and no WiFi or any other computer in the vicinity). Now the complaint is that the iPad is too effete and limited to serve the noble journeymen of the computing world, who for unexplained reasons have nothing but an iPad at their disposal to do their work.

Yes, we've gone from useless toy to primary workplace computer in under 100 posts. No doubt the iPad - and tablets in general - will become ubiquitous in the workplace some day, and when that happens they will be compatible with the needs of the workplace.

In the here and now, we have email attachments and Dropbox-like solutions for small files and the Camera Connection kit for larger media files.

 

[Piggie]

lol at this populist rant where the iPad is for high-class pampered people, unlike us hard-working blue-collar tech types who do 'real' work (I guess everyone else does 'fake' work).

What kind of person knows their job demands, recognizes they encounter conditions where they need a lot of flexibility in compatibility, probably already has the tools necessary, and then faults the iPad for not being able to replace everything in that workplace?

First the complaint was that we couldn't go to a friend's house and show our movies on their TV. Then it was we can't transfer a 100MB file to the iPad via USB (under bizarre hypothetical constraints like extreme urgency, and no WiFi or any other computer in the vicinity). Now the complaint is that the iPad is too effete and limited to serve the noble journeymen of the computing world, who for unexplained reasons have nothing but an iPad at their disposal to do their work.

I know at times this tread goes off the rails a little

It's just that often, not always though.

At home, you can live with the quirks and peculiarities and limitations of something as it's not make or break, it's just entertainment.

But at work, in business, you need something that "Just Works" and had the flexibility to be able to hand most things that are thrown at it.

But that was not really what this thread was about.

My main thoughts/concerns was that as great as Apple is, and Steve Jobs is at designing something He and Apple are also their own worst enemy.

I don't know if Apple only have a vision that the iPad will never be, and it not supposed to be an independent device. Its only supposed to be a mobile temporary extension of your desktop machine.

You take your iPad with you, do some light work, come back home or to the office, connect back to your "Computer" and get your real work done, perhaps pulling in the data from your iPad.

That is kind of the way it's seen right now by Apple.

I for one hope they break this as I want the iPad to grow into it's own device in it's own right and not just a limited extension of your real machine.

It's been said before that Apple's problem will be, if they push the iPad (a tablet) into this direction that they will start hitting their Macbook market.

Will other makers continue to make their devices more independent, whilst Apple keeps their iPad held back?

I don't know.

I don't want a LOT more from the iPad, I could probably list say 10 or 20 things and that would be it.

The iPad COULD do it. It's not any technical limitation really. It's more to do with what Apple want the device to be able to do.

I suppose it's also that I am from an era when manufacturers all the time were pushing as hard as they could to offer the customers more and more.

I will admit, I don't like the idea of holding something back technically for a "design" point of view.

To me, functionality comes uppermost, and design comes second.

We're not talking about the fashion industry where the look and the brand is what matters. We are talking about Electronics where what it does should come first.

IMHO anyway

 

[Night Spring]

I don't know if Apple only have a vision that the iPad will never be, and it not supposed to be an independent device. Its only supposed to be a mobile temporary extension of your desktop machine.

You take your iPad with you, do some light work, come back home or to the office, connect back to your "Computer" and get your real work done, perhaps pulling in the data from your iPad.

That is kind of the way it's seen right now by Apple.

>snip<

Will other makers continue to make their devices more independent, whilst Apple keeps their iPad held back?

Well, yes, I think that's exactly how Apple envisions iPad usage. But you seem to be suggesting that other manufacturers envision something different from *their* tablets -- and I'm not sure that's true. I mean, for one thing, most major tablets announced to date are smaller than the iPad. By that very token, I doubt they are meant to do any "real" work. Rather, I envision that people would take the Galaxy Tab or Blackbery Playbook with them, do some light work while on the go, then connect back to their computer to do the "real" work. So so far, I don't see any major competitor moving to make their tablet devices more indpendent than the iPad is. And I'm confident that if ever tablet-style devices become independent computing devices, it'll be Apple spearheading the change, with the others tagging behind. At least as long as Jobs is in charge.

 

[Piggie]

Well, yes, I think that's exactly how Apple envisions iPad usage. But you seem to be suggesting that other manufacturers envision something different from *their* tablets -- and I'm not sure that's true. I mean, for one thing, most major tablets announced to date are smaller than the iPad. By that very token, I doubt they are meant to do any "real" work. Rather, I envision that people would take the Galaxy Tab or Blackbery Playbook with them, do some light work while on the go, then connect back to their computer to do the "real" work. So so far, I don't see any major competitor moving to make their tablet devices more indpendent than the iPad is. And I'm confident that if ever tablet-style devices become independent computing devices, it'll be Apple spearheading the change, with the others tagging behind. At least as long as Jobs is in charge.

So let's move forward to iPad3

How would you feel if by then, the iPad had enough power to run OSX quite well, perhaps on a 13" tablet screen and an optional bluetooth physical keyboard.

And be able to flip between simple iPad and proper OSX mode easily.

The answer to everyone's dreams?

 

[Night Spring]

So let's move forward to iPad3

How would you feel if by then, the iPad had enough power to run OSX quite well, perhaps on a 13" tablet screen and an optional bluetooth physical keyboard.

And be able to flip between simple iPad and proper OSX mode easily.

The answer to everyone's dreams?

I do expect a device like that at some point -- perhaps a Macbook Air with a flippable screen? That weighs as much as the current iPad. I'll probably stand in line to buy that!