Are Apple going to be able to hold the iPad back without hurting it?

[BaldiMac]

I will admit, I don't like the idea of holding something back technically for a "design" point of view.

To me, functionality comes uppermost, and design comes second.

We're not talking about the fashion industry where the look and the brand is what matters. We are talking about Electronics where what it does should come first.

IMHO anyway

There are many people in this forum who trot out the "form over function" argument without any understanding of the concept. What they are really arguing for is features over function. You can't let features dictate form or function.

Form (or design) is a function of a device like the iPad. Not in the "it look purty" sense, but in the size and weight and balance and stability and usability and cost sense.

Apple designed the iPad for a specific function. And eliminated features that least served that function to meet a specific cost goal. As costs go down and their view of its function evolves, additional/different features are added. It's not a question design dictating functionality, but the exact opposite.

 

[Thymaridas]

The post misses a major point. Apple, Inc. is moving away from wires and pulling the world with it. Cables have no future in the marketplace. iPad's competitors will live in the past with an OS that has to be able to handle any combination of peripherals which will make them 'cows,' unable to anything well.

Move into the future. Let the legacy hardware die a natural death.

 

[Scuby]

So, you visit your friend. You have a video on your iPad that you want to show on a big screen TV. It turns out your friend does not have ATV. What do you do? Carry ATV with you? Well, considering that Apple customers are used to carrying all kinds of adapters anyways , perhaps, it's not such a big deal but still... Why not to add a port? Is it about profits, ideology or something else?

I can honestly say i do not know a single person who would have a mini-HDMI cable - which is what you'd need as a full size HDMI wouldn't fit. So i can either have an iPad with lots of ports in the side, and carry my mini-HDMI cable, or i can have my current iPad with one port and carry an iPad TV-out cable. Or, which is what i plan to do, just connect it to my own TV via AirPlay - can't say i'd ever want to watch anything on my iPad anywhere else.

David

 

[Piggie]

The post misses a major point. Apple, Inc. is moving away from wires and pulling the world with it. Cables have no future in the marketplace. iPad's competitors will live in the past with an OS that has to be able to handle any combination of peripherals which will make them 'cows,' unable to anything well.

Move into the future. Let the legacy hardware die a natural death.

Just one small issue here.

We buy an iPad today so we can use it with todays technology.

Tomorrow we can buy tomorrows iPad that will work with the technology will will own tomorrow.

There is really no point in owning something that does not work with the things we have today, but will work with the things we will have tomorrow.

As when tomorrow comes we can then buy a new device that will work with them.

If the iPad was supposed to last for 10 years then yes, it's good that it will support what most people will own in 5 or 10 years time.

But by then the iPad will have moved on anyway.

It's like buying the very very top end graphics card every year that has no games yet written that can use it's features.

Sorry, but today in real homes, people have wires. So people need to connect things with wires.

In 5 years time when people don't have wires (they still will, but anyway) THEN they can buy the iPad5 which won't need wires either.

It's like buying a car that runs on something and there are almost no filling stations anywhere yet.

In 5 or 10 years time we will have forgotten about our current iPads anyway.

I fully agree you need to move forwards and push a little, but not to the point in making something harder work that in needs to be and have to carry about dongles and adaptors to make it work.

If you are old enough you might remember early mobile phones that had to have dongles plugged into them as they did not have what we consider today as normal built in.

 

[Piggie]

I can honestly say i do not know a single person who would have a mini-HDMI cable - which is what you'd need as a full size HDMI wouldn't fit. So i can either have an iPad with lots of ports in the side, and carry my mini-HDMI cable, or i can have my current iPad with one port and carry an iPad TV-out cable. Or, which is what i plan to do, just connect it to my own TV via AirPlay - can't say i'd ever want to watch anything on my iPad anywhere else.

David

Well, I guess you can just make sure every single one of your friends you visit goes and buys an Apple TV.

Or you could buy 1 cable.

 

[Ciclismo]

There are many people in this forum who trot out the "form over function" argument without any understanding of the concept. What they are really arguing for is features over function. You can't let features dictate form or function.

Form (or design) is a function of a device like the iPad. Not in the "it look purty" sense, but in the size and weight and balance and stability and usability and cost sense.

Apple designed the iPad for a specific function. And eliminated features that least served that function to meet a specific cost goal. As costs go down and their view of its function evolves, additional/different features are added. It's not a question design dictating functionality, but the exact opposite.

Call me weird but I find beauty in function - I love my Swiss Army knife, for example, not because it has a beutiful design, but because it is so highly fuctional and minimalist, for example apart from the Victorinox symbol and the red colour of the grips, there are no design elements used to pretty it up. I don't know why, but I like things which are reduced in form to be (almost) purely functional.

 

[Piggie]

Call me weird but I find beauty in function - I love my Swiss Army knife, for example, not because it has a beutiful design, but because it is so highly fuctional and minimalist, for example apart from the Victorinox symbol and the red colour of the grips, there are no design elements used to pretty it up. I don't know why, but I like things which are reduced in form to be (almost) purely functional.

It's a very interesting comparison you make there.

The iPad (and Apple in general) to me are about as far away from a "Swiss Army Knife" as you could get.

Steve Jobs would look at a swiss army knife and say, ok this has too many options, its too confusion for the operator, we need to simply the design.

Tool to get stones out of horse's hooves. Horses are old hat, people use motor vehicles now, we will get rid of that function.

Fish de-scaler and hook remover. We have more efficient ways of catching fish than just with 1 rod, line and hook, so that can go.

Tooth Pick. Modern dentistry and good oral hygiene means this is no longer needed.

And go on, till you were leave with one single Blade and we would all marvel at it's design simplicity.

 

[BaldiMac]

It's a very interesting comparison you make there.

The iPad (and Apple in general) to me are about as far away from a "Swiss Army Knife" as you could get.

Steve Jobs would look at a swiss army knife and say, ok this has too many options, its too confusion for the operator, we need to simply the design.

Tool to get stones out of horse's hooves. Horses are old hat, people use motor vehicles now, we will get rid of that function.

Fish de-scaler and hook remover. We have more efficient ways of catching fish than just with 1 rod, line and hook, so that can go.

Tooth Pick. Modern dentistry and good oral hygiene means this is no longer needed.

And go on, till you were leave with one single Blade and we would all marvel at it's design simplicity.

That summarizes your misunderstanding so well. If Apple's goal was to reproduce all the functions of a Swiss Army Knife, they would not eliminate features that are crucial to that goal.

 

[Night Spring]

And go on, till you were leave with one single Blade and we would all marvel at it's design simplicity.

Actually, there IS a model with only a single blade.
http://www.swissarmy.com/MultiTools...tegory=originalswissarmyknives&product=55871&

If you look through that website, you'll see they make lots of different configurations for different use cases. They don't just fit every single type of tool into a knife just in case somebody needs it sometime.

 

[wirelessmacuser]

Stepping back from the never ending discussion of what the iPad should or shouldn't have in the way of ports, features, etc. The real miracle is not the iPad, or anything that Apple builds. But rather the way that only Apple can decide for the masses what's best for them, and have the support and backing of their followers no matter what the end result is. Anyone speaking out, is beat down by the followers.

Apple can do no wrong, people are giving up massive amounts of money for shiny things with an Apple logo. That's the miracle. American marketing at it's finest or worst, depending on how you see it.

Apple worshipers abound, it's an amazing spectacle.

Up at all hours day or night, to line up and wait outside, like homeless at a soup kitchen. When a new product is released, the Apple Faithful just cannot wait to spend their money. A very revealing scenario.

 

[BaldiMac]

Stepping back from the never ending discussion of what the iPad should or shouldn't have in the way of ports, features, etc. The real miracle is not the iPad, or anything that Apple builds. But rather the way that only Apple can decide for the masses what's best for them, and have the support and backing of their followers no matter what the end result is. Anyone speaking out, is beat down by the followers.

Apple can do no wrong, people are giving up massive amounts of money for shiny things with an Apple logo. That's the miracle. American marketing at it's finest or worst, depending on how you see it.

Apple worshipers abound, it's an amazing spectacle.

Up at all hours day or night, to line up and wait outside, like homeless at a soup kitchen. When a new product is released, the Apple Faithful just cannot wait to spend their money. A very revealing scenario.

You already posted this same off topic rant filled with strawmen and fantasy once in this thread.

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/11446830/

 

[Piggie]

Stepping back from the never ending discussion of what the iPad should or shouldn't have in the way of ports, features, etc. The real miracle is not the iPad, or anything that Apple builds. But rather the way that only Apple can decide for the masses what's best for them, and have the support and backing of their followers no matter what the end result is. Anyone speaking out, is beat down by the followers.

Apple can do no wrong, people are giving up massive amounts of money for shiny things with an Apple logo. That's the miracle. American marketing at it's finest or worst, depending on how you see it.

Apple worshipers abound, it's an amazing spectacle.

Up at all hours day or night, to line up and wait outside, like homeless at a soup kitchen. When a new product is released, the Apple Faithful just cannot wait to spend their money. A very revealing scenario.

Yes, I have seen this and continue to.

I suppose the most recent example of which was the cheap, tacky fake iPhone4 comments which are still on these forums if you look hard enough)

I would say 80% to 90% said the then unknown if genuine phone was horrid, tacky, cheap and nothing like something Apple would make, obvioulsy a far eastern ripp off.

And yet a few weeks later the whole thing had flipped around. 10% to 20% still saying they were not keen, but the rest now saying it was a modern design classic and a beautiful thing.

Yet, they don't wish to admit this.

They can never accept what they are doing.

Its like the screen aspect ratio, or BluRay or Flash.

Can you imagine.

an iMac with a built in BluRay drive.
iPad's that Played Flash
iPad with a 16:9 widescreen ratio.

Then we had from Microsoft.

a new 4:3 Tablet, which did not play Flash
and Msoft did not support BluRay.

You and I both know Apple would be king and Microsoft would be laughed at for not supporting the Flash standard on the web.
For offering users an old 4:3 screen when all modern screens are 16:9 and not offering customers the latest in HiDef movie entertainment.

But NOW, they won't admit that.

As you rightly say, as soon as Apple do it, it will be right, and if Apple don't do it, it will be wrong.

I of course expect all the people who posted than the next iPad should not have a rear facing camera, will be taping over their camera, or placing their next iPad in a case without a camera hole as they will stick to their guns that it should not be there and they will never use it.

I don't suspect for a moment they will change their minds and say a rear camera is great.............. Do you....?

 

[BaldiMac]

Yes, I have seen this and continue to.

I suppose the most recent example of which was the cheap, tacky fake iPhone4 comments which are still on these forums if you look hard enough)

I would say 80% to 90% said the then unknown if genuine phone was horrid, tacky, cheap and nothing like something Apple would make, obvioulsy a far eastern ripp off.

And yet a few weeks later the whole thing had flipped around. 10% to 20% still saying they were not keen, but the rest now saying it was a modern design classic and a beautiful thing.

Yet, they don't wish to admit this.

But were they the same people?

They can never accept what they are doing.

Its like the screen aspect ratio, or BluRay or Flash.

Can you imagine.

an iMac with a built in BluRay drive.
iPad's that Played Flash
iPad with a 16:9 widescreen ratio.

Then we had from Microsoft.

a new 4:3 Tablet, which did not play Flash
and Msoft did not support BluRay.

You and I both know Apple would be king and Microsoft would be laughed at for not supporting the Flash standard on the web.
For offering users an old 4:3 screen when all modern screens are 16:9 and not offering customers the latest in HiDef movie entertainment.

But NOW, they won't admit that.

As you rightly say, as soon as Apple do it, it will be right, and if Apple don't do it, it will be wrong.

I of course expect all the people who posted than the next iPad should not have a rear facing camera, will be taping over their camera, or placing their next iPad in a case without a camera hole as they will stick to their guns that it should not be there and they will never use it.

I don't suspect for a moment they will change their minds and say a rear camera is great.............. Do you....?

There are fringe crazies in every group. And ignorant people that spout the talking points that they come across without any understanding. These people are not unique to "Apple fans," and they are not a larger percentage of Apple customers than any other comparable group.

 

[Piggie]

But were they the same people?



There are fringe crazies in every group. And ignorant people that spout the talking points that they come across without any understanding. These people are not unique to "Apple fans," and they are not a larger percentage of Apple customers than any other comparable group.

I accept it's not everyone.

But even you must accept Apple has a larger following of "They can't do anything wrong because they are Apple" than probably any other company around today.

I have seen the same thin in other areas. Some people so 100% sure something is wrong, until THEIR favourite company does it, and then they do a 180 degree turn around and deny they ever said that, unless you can find an old posting of theirs

I read lots of stuff and pick up on the general vibe of the thread.

Even you must admit, that whilst we may not remember names, it was pretty across the board that the early leaked iPhone4 photo's were not liked by the majority of posters on these forums, who have magically disappeared in recent months.

I'm not saying it's wrong.

I'm just saying it happens and its at the same time funny and a bit sad to see it happen. People having no real idea about what they actually want, but just waiting for someone else to guide them.

My list of wants would be different to your list of wants and someone else's list of wants. None of us are wrong really.

I just don't like having options taken away from me. I like the flexibility.

eg: Even if I never use a hdmi connector in an iPad, I still think the product as a whole would be better if it had one than didn't have one.

 

[BaldiMac]

I accept it's not everyone.

But even you must accept Apple has a larger following of "They can't do anything wrong because they are Apple" than probably any other company around today.

I'll accept the first part of that sentence, but I disagree with your "because." The reason many people feel that way is because Apple earned that trust. Of course, there are the *LTD*s that take it too far.

I don't think Apple can do no wrong, but I don't think the things that I disagree with are for nefarious or idiotic reasons on Apple's part.

I have seen the same thin in other areas. Some people so 100% sure something is wrong, until THEIR favourite company does it, and then they do a 180 degree turn around and deny they ever said that, unless you can find an old posting of theirs

I read lots of stuff and pick up on the general vibe of the thread.

Sure, those people exist. But the post that you agreed with from wirelessmacuser implies that they are the majority of Apple customers. Motivated only by flim flam and mind control.

Even you must admit, that whilst we may not remember names, it was pretty across the board that the early leaked iPhone4 photo's were not liked by the majority of posters on these forums, who have magically disappeared in recent months.

I'm not saying it's wrong.

But the names are the important thing. The ones that were hypocritical were the hypocrites. Not Apple fans in general.

And your premise that "early leaked iPhone4 photo's were not liked by the majority of posters on these forums" is flawed at its base. If you went back and counted, there is no way that you will find a majority of the thousands of posters to this forum even participated in the thread.

I'm just saying it happens and its at the same time funny and a bit sad to see it happen. People having no real idea about what they actually want, but just waiting for someone else to guide them.

Why is that sad? That's what money is for. To pay someone else for their expertise. Some people are not fulfilled by researching what they want in a computer. If they are consistently happy with the results of paying for Apple's expertise, what is the problem?

My list of wants would be different to your list of wants and someone else's list of wants. None of us are wrong really.

I just don't like having options taken away from me. I like the flexibility.

No one is taking away options from you. Apple is adding an option that no one else produces.

eg: Even if I never use a hdmi connector in an iPad, I still think the product as a whole would be better if it had one than didn't have one.

Sure. And I think it would be better with free 3G service. Apple doesn't choose to offer those options.

 

[Friscohoya]

I guess I'm saying that apple cannot forever just assume everyone will buy their product just because it's apple despite the specs.

People have bought the iPad because it's the best one, the first decent one. But I hope apple don't feel this is enough.

Gone are the days where just being apple is enough and I'm certain if other products come along that offer more in the future people will jump ship.

Of course Mac owners, apple lovers will buy the apple product but that's not the majority.

I just want apple to stay at the top as it's the best, not just due to the sticker on the back.

I'm personally prepared to make some sacrifices, but I'm not sticking with any product If there are a world of better ones out there.

The biggest thing apple could do for me would be to put in some card slots and play back video in all popular formats without conversion.

"Apple cannot forever..."

"Gone are the days..."

"I am certain..."

How many fortune 500 companies have you built that you can be so certain about your assertions? Apple seems to be doing quite fine by depriving the masses. I'm not saying I like not having a front facing camera on my ipad, I am just saying that it dont seem to be hurting their stock price.

 

[Piggie]

"Apple cannot forever..."

"Gone are the days..."

"I am certain..."

How many fortune 500 companies have you built that you can be so certain about your assertions? Apple seems to be doing quite fine by depriving the masses. I'm not saying I like not having a front facing camera on my ipad, I am just saying that it dont seem to be hurting their stock price.

Steve Jobs making Apple the richest business he can and making products that are the best don't have to be connected.

Have you ever heard of Lord Alan Sugar?

The maker of arguable some of the worst, cheapest electronics junk ever during the 1980's He sold things cheap that just about worked, but anyone who knew anything would run 100 miles away from it as they knew how nasty it was.

But he was a very successful businessman.

Doing the best for consumers may often mean doing what's not best for the company and visa versa.

Actually that's one of my long term Apple worries in that now Steve seems to be more interested in the company side of things than the technical/creation side of things.

I do think if you could take now Steve back to see Young inventive Steve he would not like to see what's happened. Sure the company is doing well, but going down a very controlling/corporate doing well path now.

I'm not alone in thinking there is a long down dumb down Apple, bring iOS forward more and leave the higher end stuff to the PC world and just make lots of money from pretty easy to use gadgets.

Great for the company, but in a way a shame as there is a sense of giving up in there also.

 

[BaldiMac]

Steve Jobs making Apple the richest business he can and making products that are the best don't have to be connected.

Sure, but they seem to be in this case.

Have you ever heard of Lord Alan Sugar?

The maker of arguable some of the worst, cheapest electronics junk ever during the 1980's He sold things cheap that just about worked, but anyone who knew anything would run 100 miles away from it as they knew how nasty it was.

But he was a very successful businessman.

But that's exactly the opposite of what is happening with Apple. People with Apple products are extremely satisfied with Apple products at a rate not seen anywhere else in the industry.

Doing the best for consumers may often mean doing what's not best for the company and visa versa.

May, may not. Not sure there's a point there.

Actually that's one of my long term Apple worries in that now Steve seems to be more interested in the company side of things than the technical/creation side of things.

Seems to be? Based on what? Everything we read prior to the iPad launch was about how the iPad had his full attention.

I do think if you could take now Steve back to see Young inventive Steve he would not like to see what's happened. Sure the company is doing well, but going down a very controlling/corporate doing well path now.

I'm not sure how that's a lot different than early Steve Jobs.

I'm not alone in thinking there is a long down dumb down Apple, bring iOS forward more and leave the higher end stuff to the PC world and just make lots of money from pretty easy to use gadgets.

Great for the company, but in a way a shame as there is a sense of giving up in there also.

And you'll ignore the record Mac sales? I'm not sure that you aren't confusing simplification and user friendliness with dumbing down.

 

[Night Spring]

I'm not sure that you aren't confusing simplification and user friendliness with dumbing down.

Exactly. Apple's always been about pursuing user friendliness without being afraid of being accused of dumbing down the tech. Truth is, when I saw the original Macintosh, it seemed like a toy to me. Real computer users learned the command line, and didn't have to depend on those cute but dumb GUI!

As technology in general and Apple's expertise in particular has advanced, their products have gotten more slicker, smoother, easier to use. The original Macintosh really did sacrifice usability for the GUI. I used to joke that I could finish a paper on the mainframe while my friends waited for their Mac to boot up. Now Apple has the fastest booting computer in their new Air.

I don't think Apple is perfect, or they don't ever make mistakes. I think the current Nano looks horrible, and doesn't look easy to use at all. I haven't even attempted to give it a try in stores, just looking at that thing turns me off. But I don't spend my time in the iPod forum ranting over what a terrible mistake Apple is making with the Nano. I mostly spend time in the iPad forum, reading and talking about a product I do like.

Overall, I think Apple has consistently pushed technology in pursuit of products that are both functional and a pleasure to use, hold and look at. And no, their definition of functional doesn't mean adding functions for the sake of adding functions. For instance, as I mentioned before, in the case of the iPad, being as thin as possible and having sides that are as smooth as possible are factors that increase the overall functionality of a tablet-style device by making it easier to hold in your hands. In this case, leaving out functions like ports and card slots increases the overall functionality. That said, with the other tablets like Galaxy Tab and Playbook finally arriving, users now have alternatives. If Apple doesn't offer you what you want, simply go buy something else. Why should you care if they are going in the wrong direction? You aren't running that company!