Are you satisfied with this morning's spec bump?

[AFEPPL]

At $1300 yea it's underpowered.

But its faster than a 2014/5 MBA - apparently thats not underpowered, so I'm confused who has a monopoly on declaring what power is need to meet the requirements? infact who's defining the requirements? Or are we saying the OS is now bloated and thus causing the bog down?

GeekBench 3 (from the news post on this forum)
1.1Ghz M3 is clocking 2500 for Single Core and 5000 for Multi
1.3Ghz M5 is clocking 3000 for Single Core and 6700 for Multi

By comparison the MBA number are:
1.4Ghz 2015 i5 (5250U) is clocking 2400 for Single Core and 4600 for Multi
1.6Ghz 2014 i5 (4260U) is clocking 2500 for Single Core and 5100 for Multi
2.2Ghz 2015 i7 (5250U) is clocking 3050 for Single Core and 6250 for Multi

I dont have a rMB, but its certainly not "underpowered" and the price in reality "was" better than a MBA, but now the 13" MBA gets 8GB RAM std not so much so.. But for $100 you get a better screen and more portability. YOU have a choice...!

 

[deeddawg]

But its true, an average rationale buyer would go for the best bang for their buck.

If you want to split hairs, the rational buyer will choose the option that best fits his needs at the price he is willing to pay. Don't assume that's always (or even frequently) compute power per dollar (aka bang for the buck).

If you go by their marketing, Apple seems to have figured out that a substantial portion of the buying public really doesn't care what's under the hood; instead they care about what they can do with the product and how it will affect/enrich their lives. It's also fairly obvious that Apple isn't particularly concerned with the value customers, leaving that segment of the market to the other vendors. Additionally it's evident that Apple doesn't particularly care about the propellerhead fringe that concerns themselves with what particular lakes should be built into stuff.

I dont know why some posters (Buerkletucson) here are so hellbent on trying to make me "understand" the "greatness" of the rMB.

It's probably due to your posts where you state your individual opinion as sweeping generalization, particularly where it puts others in a poor light as I outlined above.

 

[xDKP]

But its true, an average rationale buyer would go for the best bang for their buck. The rMB simply isn't that.

But you simply ignore that "bang for their buck" is different for others than you. To me, bang for my buck was very much a question of super light, small footprint and great keyboard/screen. All these points are the best in the line of laptops Apple made when I bought it and will be for the foreseeable future (even with updated rMBP and Airs, they still can't match the footprint/weight and my rMB has more than enough power for my needs)...

Remember, even though computers, laptops and other gadgets get faster every year - many of us don't suddenly start becoming video directors or hardcore computer gamers because of it. As mentioned a LOT of times on this forum - many of us business users use these machines to work on mail/office apps and a lot of the web - And for that, the rMB gives my BY FAR the best bang for my buck... Love it

 

[KPOM]

I don't know if this really so infeasible. Acer will surprisingly launch the first fanless Skylake (U i3-i7) surface style hybrid next month. The Acer's Switch Alpha 12 has a new liquid cooled heatpipe system. According to the hands on from the german techblog golem, the Core i5-6200U version sustains 2,2ghz (947 MHz GPU) after 15min of constant load with Prime95 and Furmark while a Surface 4 with Core i5-6300U (and a fan) throttles to 1,3 GHz in the same scenario. It gets a bit hot, but not worse than the Surface. http://www.golem.de/news/acer-aspir...eindruckende-kuehlleistung-1604-120420-2.html

Specs: 12'' 2,160 x 1,440 IPS touchscreen (pen support), i3- i7, 4-8GB RAM, SSD up to 512GB, 11.5 x 7.93 x 0.62 inches, 2.76 pounds (with keyboard/trackpad), tablet alone 0.37 height, 1.98 pounds, USB C (no TB3), USB 3.0, Mirco SD slot, 1080p webcam, 8h battery life, price starts at 599$ (keyboard included) http://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/press/2016/182718

Imo this isn't so far away from the rMB, but i guess most people here will argue against the weight/hybrid category and declare it incomparable, but from my perspective there is a certain overlap in the targeted audiences. I wouldn't recommend this anyone, who's looking for a good laptop, especially because a few friends and family members had some awful experience with Acer in the past. But the specs are definitely interesting. Maybe we will see some more Windows competition with passive Skylake U processors in the future. And i wonder what Apple will offer at the WWDC for the next rMBP.

It's 2.76 lbs or even heavier than the HP Spectre that uses a similar cooling system.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Thats a valid point.
However wouldnt Apple be trying to sell more iPads to iPad users...considering iPad sales arent doing too well.
I think the rMB is a design statement. Shows how far Apple can go with their engineering. And that itll serve as the design basis for the 2016 rMBPs.

Well maybe it fills 3 cases

Svelte laptop for those that like it's form over function etc etc
Those that want something more laptop than an Ipad without a huge compromise on footprint
Those that might otherwise be lured over to 2 in 1's

We would not be seeing comments or opinions or questions with the POV of down scaling to a rMB from MBA or MBP if Apple had maintained a much better momentum of improvement and design development IMO and the MBA screen is a good example of this for many.

If the MBP gets a complete makeover and a new MBA materialise it will make the rMB even more niche. I think the IPP was the litmus test for IPad future appeal and the rMB as a bridging device.

 

[Narcaz]

It's 2.76 lbs or even heavier than the HP Spectre that uses a similar cooling system.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Asking for a i3/5/7 processor means a slight weight increase (cooling, battery). And the Acer is even a different compromise of weight, because it's a not only a laptop, it's a 2 in 1 hybrid. Therefore it carries an extra stand, ports, touch digitizer and detachable keyboard (trackpad) mechanism. This extra weight could be thrown out for a more Macbook (Air) like laptop design. But that's actually not the point. You said a fanless Skylake U laptop without heavy throtteling isn't technically feasible for Apple. Looking at the Acer, i tend to disagree. And no the cooling system is not at all similar to the spectre: a low pressure design with two small fans (spectre) vs. fanless, noiseless liquid cooling heatpipe (acer).

 

[KPOM]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Asking for a i3/5/7 processor means a slight weight increase (cooling, battery). And the Acer is even a different compromise of weight, because it's a not only a laptop, it's a 2 in 1 hybrid. Therefore it carries an extra stand, ports, touch digitizer and detachable keyboard (trackpad) mechanism. This extra weight could be thrown out for a more Macbook (Air) like laptop design. But that's actually not the point. You said a fanless Skylake U laptop without heavy throtteling isn't technically feasible for Apple. Looking at the Acer, i tend to disagree. And no the cooling system is not at all similar to the spectre: a low pressure design with two small fans (spectre) vs. fanless, noiseless liquid cooling heatpipe (acer).

It isn't technically feasible in a 2lb notebook of the MacBook's size. Obviously Apple could make a Skylake-U MacBook Air or HP Spectre clone if they wanted to.

 

[izzyfanto]

Don't assume that's always (or even frequently) compute power per dollar (aka bang for the buck)...they care about what they can do with the product and how it will affect/enrich their lives. It's also fairly obvious that Apple isn't particularly concerned with the value customers, leaving that segment of the market to the other vendors.

Remember, even though computers, laptops and other gadgets get faster every year - many of us don't suddenly start becoming video directors or hardcore computer gamers because of it.

xDKP, I think you nailed it...the performance threshold has improved so much for these Intel M CPUs that they are now hitting the range for the average user(web, docs, music, watching videos, light work), not the power user (where all graphically intense tasks such as games or video editing are getting more demanding along with the improved capabilities of the technology)

 

[KPOM]

xDKP, I think you nailed it...the performance threshold has improved so much for these Intel M CPUs that they are now hitting the range for the average user(web, docs, music, watching videos, light work), not the power user (where all graphically intense tasks such as games or video editing are getting more demanding along with the improved capabilities of the technology)

On top of that, Apple seems to be committed to Core M. HP in particular made a point that the Spectre is not using Core M since "anyone can do that," and I'm guessing that Acer is doing the same. Hence both went out of their way to use active cooling systems so that they could use the Skylake-U. Given Apple's focus on optimization and power efficiency, it makes sense for Apple to use the Core M.

 

[Uni Grad]

If you want to split hairs, the rational buyer will choose the option that best fits his needs at the price he is willing to pay. Don't assume that's always (or even frequently) compute power per dollar (aka bang for the buck).

If you go by their marketing, Apple seems to have figured out that a substantial portion of the buying public really doesn't care what's under the hood; instead they care about what they can do with the product and how it will affect/enrich their lives. It's also fairly obvious that Apple isn't particularly concerned with the value customers, leaving that segment of the market to the other vendors. Additionally it's evident that Apple doesn't particularly care about the propellerhead fringe that concerns themselves with what particular lakes should be built into stuff.


It's probably due to your posts where you state your individual opinion as sweeping generalization, particularly where it puts others in a poor light as I outlined above.

Hey deeddawg, I'm done discussing this any further with you, but heres my last point.

I did not make a sweeping generalization. For Apple the MBAir was their best selling notebook till last year, now that title has been taken by the rMBPro. The best sellling rMBPro is not the 15 inch, however the 13 inch. The MBAir and the rMBPro 13 represent balance for what a consumer can attain. Most individuals go for that balance. Its evident in sales. When the MBAir debuted, everyone was in awe of it. The early adopters bought it immediately, however the average buyer, waited till price came down and the value of it went up. Thats why the initial MBAir did not sell well, until they improved its power from intel core 2 duo to core i chips.
You argue that Apple does not care about the value customer - a sweeping generalization in itself, that is simply not true. They've just released the iPhone SE for the matter.

From what I've gathered, you and the other posters talk about upgrading their computers every year. You have primary, secondary, even tertiary devices at your disposal. You are an extreme minority of buyers...the average buyer (middle class family, college student, working professional, young adult, retired folk) does not expect to update their computer at the same frequency as their phones; they want longevity out of these devices. Walk into an Apple store today, ask the expert for their opinion on their best device for an average Joe, they recommend the Air or the Pro. I've seen it happen multiple times.

You buyers are risktakers that buy a first gen device, upgrade within 1-2years. You do not represent the average buyer. The average buyer, who drives sales for major corporations, buys things they get the most out of. They want fast computers, good design - because thats what they think defines a good machine. An average buyer looks at the rMB 1.1 gHz and the rMBP 2.7 gHz...and at the same price point will go for the faster one. Thats their mentality and its evident in product sales.

The average user has been taught their whole life that more processing power, means more speed, meaning better. At the same price point they will go for the faster device.

People who can accept that for their needs 1.1 gHz is fine for them over 2.7 gHz, at the same price point, are a minority. You do not drive sales, the average buyer does. They way you think, clearly indicates you are not an average buyer and clearly dont understand them.

 

[izzyfanto]

On top of that, Apple seems to be committed to Core M. HP in particular made a point that the Spectre is not using Core M since "anyone can do that," and I'm guessing that Acer is doing the same. Hence both went out of their way to use active cooling systems so that they could use the Skylake-U. Given Apple's focus on optimization and power efficiency, it makes sense for Apple to use the Core M.

Yep. I posted a thread last night about Skylake improvements from a AnandTech article. Even Intel, at their Demo Depot for Skylake, made it evident that Skylake was more of a focus on the M series with many different speed optimizations and lower voltage management. I'm curious to if Apple will eventually start using their A series instead of Intel M to power the MB.

 

[David58117]

Yeah I am a bit inbetween there, mostly due to screen size. Performance wise I think the rMB really will be enough and will be nice with a fanless design and such, I actually prefer the keyboard on the rMB compared to the traditional one.

The question for me is if I think 12" will be big enough to use for coding and such around the apartment.



I am quite sure he made a stab at how dumb it was saying the rMB is underpowered at $1300. With the same logic the rMBP is too heavy for it's price

I'm a beginning comp sci student, and actually bought the 12" for that purpose.

I use Sublime Text/some Xcode, and also have Virtual Box installed with W10.

The 12" handles it very well.

I don't know why some users make it seem incapable, or make it out to be a "toy."

My 15" rarely gets used now..

 

[deeddawg]

I did not make a sweeping generalization.

You've utterly and completely missed the point I made.

You argue that Apple does not care about the value customer - a sweeping generalization in itself, that is simply not true. They've just released the iPhone SE for the matter.

Differing points of reference. I don't consider a $400 to $500 phone as a "value phone" -- instead go look at the $50 to $100 options at Walmart. While there walk over to the laptops section and consider the $500 or so options. Those are what are cartering to the "value customer". Perhaps a clearer term is "low price customer" if that helps your comprehension.

From what I've gathered, you ... talk about upgrading their computers every year.

You gathered wrong. My previous laptop to my 2015 rMB was my July 2011 MBA13. Try again.

They way you think, clearly indicates you are not an average buyer and clearly dont understand them

You clearly do not know me at all and coupled with the rest of your incorrect assertions your entire post is laughable.

Am I an average buyer? In some ways yes, in some ways no. Do I understand them? Definitely. The two are not mutually exclusive. I've lived with, worked with, and advised tons of average buyers for decades.

 

[izzyfanto]

I'm a beginning comp sci student, and actually bought the 12" for that purpose.

I use Sublime Text/some Xcode, and also have Virtual Box installed with W10.

The 12" handles it very well.

I don't know why some users make it seem incapable, or make it out to be a "toy."

My 15" rarely gets used now..

Same scenario for me too

 

[0983275]

I'm curious, people who run a VM all the time (can be Windows, Linux, anything, for whatever task), how long does rMB last on a full charge?

If it's VMware Fusion, even better, since I'm going to be using it.

 

[Uni Grad]

You've utterly and completely missed the point I made.



Differing points of reference. I don't consider a $400 to $500 phone as a "value phone" -- instead go look at the $50 to $100 options at Walmart. While there walk over to the laptops section and consider the $500 or so options. Those are what are cartering to the "value customer". Perhaps a clearer term is "low price customer" if that helps your comprehension.


You gathered wrong. My previous laptop to my 2015 rMB was my July 2011 MBA13. Try again.


You clearly do not know me at all and coupled with the rest of your incorrect assertions your entire post is laughable.

Am I an average buyer? In some ways yes, in some ways no. Do I understand them? Definitely. The two are not mutually exclusive. I've lived with, worked with, and advised tons of average buyers for decades.

I was referring to the posters here who are debating to sell their 2015 rMBP for the 2016 one. My response was directed at them, though yes I did word it wrong, by directing it at you

If you think my post is laughable...you've missed the point of what I'm trying to convey. Its a waste of time to even extend this further.

 

[boltjames]

Form over function, I guess.
And who is we? We is surely not representative of the whole market. If it meets your requirements, great. Just don't impose it on me though.

Its "mission" is to replace the Air. Not happening right now, well with its current processors.

No, more like "form is function"

We live in a world where the iPhone and the iPad exist and we don't want to carry around bulky notebooks anymore. Further, we live in a world where the personal computer and the internet are over 20 years old and we've gotten to the point where all this processing power and all these ports that manufacturers shove at us are no longer necessary.

The RMB is a notebook for people who are accustomed to the portability of their iOS devices but on occasion need a full sized keyboard and true on-screen multitasking. That's it. Look no further than that. No one said this notebook is for the 'whole market'. It's a niche machine for an audience that wants to willingly trade horsepower and legacy compatibility for portability. An audience that's already used to iPad's and iPhone's without ports and incompatible with any wired technology and is comfortable with a notebook making similar compromises for the sake of form.

Applaud Apple for recognizing this audience and making a product for us. For 15 years I dragged around VGA ports and SD card slots I never used and had to live with the weight and bulk they required. For 15 years I paid for more processor than I actually needed and was forced to deal with the heat they produced and the fans that they required. Why? Because other notebook companies are afraid to let go of these conventions, afraid that they'll lose customers who need old ports and will read bad reviews about an 'underpowered' machine when, in fact, they never come close to maxing out the performance these machines are capable of.

Lastly, no one is "imposing" anything on you. We also live in a world with more choice in notebooks and mobile devices than ever before. Find another machine that makes you happy. Lord knows there are enough of them out there to suit anyone's needs.

BJ

 

[Wowereit]

Dude, there is no SD card reader...

 

[David58117]

Dude, there is no SD card reader...

Which I'm thankful for.

Where the heck would it go?

I don't want a bigger MacBook just for one either..

 

[deeddawg]

I was referring to the posters here who are debating to sell their 2015 rMBP for the 2016 one. My response was directed at them, though yes I did word it wrong, by directing it at you.

Cool, thanks for clarifying.

However, you seem to think you're an expert about Apple...knowing who their target consumers and whatnot. Cool, I guess you must like living in a bubble.

Your weak ad hominem attack aside, yes, it's fun bringing a bit of reality into the technophile echo chamber of MacRumors. I base my observations on decades working in the industry, my education and experience in business and marketing, as well as my graduate work in operations. You don't have to agree with me, but at least do yourself the respect of formulating a well founded argument if you choose to disagree.

If you think my post is laughable...you've missed the point of what I'm trying to convey.

It was a bit difficult to follow, particularly the part where you quote my post and reference "you and the other posters" but now say you weren't including me in that.

Its a waste of time to even extend this further with you.

Oh, I guess you were not in fact done discussing this any further the first time you said that. Okay.
[doublepost=1461694695][/doublepost]

Really?
The only slot in the entire computer is the USB port?

Yep. That's kind of the point. One single cable to plug in all your stuff at your desk that you need, and a variety of docks and adapters available so you can choose the couple that work best for your needs.

Sounds like the rMB isn't suited to your needs. Best of luck on your search.

 

[Uni Grad]

Which I'm thankful for.

Where the heck would it go?

I don't want a bigger MacBook just for one either..

Really?
The only slot in the entire computer is the USB port?

Good bye New Macbook..

hahaha

You should probably skip the rMB for the Air or rMBP. They have SD card readers.

 

[Davidkoh]

I'm a beginning comp sci student, and actually bought the 12" for that purpose.

I use Sublime Text/some Xcode, and also have Virtual Box installed with W10.

The 12" handles it very well.

I don't know why some users make it seem incapable, or make it out to be a "toy."

My 15" rarely gets used now..

Really good to know, thanks!

n Xcode, are you running any simulator/emulator or is it just pure text? And which model do you have? I am almost sure the m7 would handle my requirements, the question is if the m3 would.

 

[Uni Grad]

No, more like "form is function"

We live in a world where the iPhone and the iPad exist and we don't want to carry around bulky notebooks anymore. Further, we live in a world where the personal computer and the internet are over 20 years old and we've gotten to the point where all this processing power and all these ports that manufacturers shove at us are no longer necessary.

The RMB is a notebook for people who are accustomed to the portability of their iOS devices but on occasion need a full sized keyboard and true on-screen multitasking. That's it. Look no further than that. No one said this notebook is for the 'whole market'. It's a niche machine for an audience that wants to willingly trade horsepower and legacy compatibility for portability. An audience that's already used to iPad's and iPhone's without ports and incompatible with any wired technology and is comfortable with a notebook making similar compromises for the sake of form.

Applaud Apple for recognizing this audience and making a product for us. For 15 years I dragged around VGA ports and SD card slots I never used and had to live with the weight and bulk they required. For 15 years I paid for more processor than I actually needed and was forced to deal with the heat they produced and the fans that they required. Why? Because other notebook companies are afraid to let go of these conventions, afraid that they'll lose customers who need old ports and will read bad reviews about an 'underpowered' machine when, in fact, they never come close to maxing out the performance these machines are capable of.

Lastly, no one is "imposing" anything on you. We also live in a world with more choice in notebooks and mobile devices than ever before. Find another machine that makes you happy. Lord knows there are enough of them out there to suit anyone's needs.

BJ

I think you meant to say form follows function.
In the case of the rMB, form follows function, how?

The rMB is so thin, that it throttles the core M processor, in order to prevent further heat generation.

That is clearly form OVER function.

 

[deeddawg]

Applaud Apple for recognizing this audience and making a product for us. For 15 years I dragged around VGA ports and SD card slots I never used and had to live with the weight and bulk they required.

Ha!
Remember the hue and cry when Apple eliminated floppy drives?
Or the declarations of doom when Apple eliminated optical drives?
Then they took the VGA and Ethernet ports and we knew the company was headed for receivership...

I do kind of like SD card slot, but the lack of it in my rMB isn't a big deal. I need it rarely enough.