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Giant icons on a non touch screen to launch an app doesn't seem like a great idea to me... it seems more like a accessibility item for people who are almost blind maybe...

...or people using an 11" Air driven by a touchpad, in which case the Launcher is rather easier to navigate than the Apps grid/menu.

There's no doubt that the headline features of Lion were aimed firmly at laptop & touchpad users. Apple sell a shedload of laptops - and one of their big selling points is those beautiful big touchpads which, I find, are actually a viable mouse alternative "on the road" - although I'd still want a mouse back at base.

If you're sitting in front of a big screen... or multiple big screens... then many of the Lion features don't make sense because that's not what they are for.

On the desktop, The gestures start to make sense if you have a Magic Trackpad (esp. if you enable the 3-finger dragging which solves one of the main limitations of trackpads). I'm starting to find that having a trackpad and a mouse on the desk is a nice combination.
 
I don't care if it's an Intel CPU, an ARM chip or a hamster. -What- I care about is that it will run real operating systems like Linux and Mac OS X -- and not that crippled piece of junk that iOS is. And I don't care if Apple makes more money with iToys and iOS than the entire African continent makes in a year -- the entire iOS experience sucks.
 
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I'm misquoting but ... "the iPad will soon satisfy those looking for an ARM based macbook air"

Why do I foolishly keep praying for a dual screen clamshell iPad?
 
Do you think this came from Apple sticking the innards of an iPad into an Air for testing etc.?

Or analysts adding two twos and making A5?

Do you... do you see what I did there?
 
What would be the point of an ARM based MacBookAir?

Besides absolutely nothing?

I think one of the ideas here was supposed to be power efficiency. Otherwise, arm based chips aren't nearly as powerful as the intel based ones.
 
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charlituna said:
But of course, this needs to be taken with a grain of salt, as Apple executives have been known to say they're not considering something and then a year later introduce it.

I really don't think Apple intends to use ARM in the computers for a while. Maybe in 5-6 years, which Apple will talk about in public in about 5-6 years

I think the comment by Cook was a hint that yes Apple is going to make iOS devices, especially the iPad, more powerful

Not just more powerful but a wider lineup. The conversation seemed to imply that they expect the hardware line up to be able to handle additional user needs in the future. That could mean the AMD old iPad becomes more powerful.
 
Why would Apple go to a vastly inferior CPU in terms of computing power for the MacBook Air when Intel has made tremendous strides in lowering the TDP of their mobile CPU's?
 
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I'm misquoting but ... "the iPad will soon satisfy those looking for an ARM based macbook air"

Why do I foolishly keep praying for a dual screen clamshell iPad?

You can already simulate that using the logitech bluetooth keyboard for the ipad2. Why does Apple need to release a new offering altogether? Or do you mean using one ipad as a keyboard for the 2nd? :confused:
 
iOS is, to some extent, Mac OS X on ARM with frameworks adapted to the display size and input available...

I for one think that in the near future once ARM CPUs, but more importantly PowerVR GPUs, have become powerful enough, smartphone and tablets will replace desktop computers for most people.
For those that need to do serious work dock station with physical keyboard and external display will be usable (an extension of airplay), for even more computational intensive work, there would be cloud options an VMs.
The desktop computer as we know it is going to disappear during the next 10 years if only because it isn't great business anymore.

Smart comment.
 
Without true connectivity and file management, tablets will never be able to take the place of computers.
They will remain media consumption gadgets.

1. Already has nearly every possible form of connectivity.
2. Already has file management.
3. Ours serve exclusively as content creation devices.

For a two year old device and ecosystem, these gadgets already doing a hell of a lot more for our architects & engineers than hauling around big laptops ever did.
 
10 years? I doubt Apple will still be in the business of selling Macs in 5 years, at the rate iOS devices are growing.

I disagree. Mac will continue to sell. There are some things that a iPad can't do. Lets see an iPad edit hours of HD video, it would take days to render. Or multitrack a full band with full effects and processing. Why do you think apple is pushing thunderbolt? Macs are a huge hit with media pros, I don't think they would abandon that market. Mac sales continue to rise anyway. They iPad is so slow to work on IMO.
 
All ARM provides is designs for everything from complete chips to "mix'n'match" building-blocks to allow fabricators to assemble their own custom chips. It's also quite feasible that ARM would work with a big customer like Apple on developing new designs - at one point Apple owned a substantial chunk of ARM, and the chips used in the Newton were an Apple/ARM collaboration.

It's simpler than that. ARM provides the whole CPU core design. If the spec sheet says Cortex-A9, then it's Cortex-A9, no matter what customization have been done. Customization pretty much means that you can add e.g. video decoding/encoding engine or something similar, and you get to choose the GPU and the amount of RAM. The CPU cores don't change, only their frequency does.

Sure, you can still use ARM instruction set and do what e.g. Qualcomm has done with their Snapdragon lineup. That would be a very risky move, though. That requires years, even a decade, of R&D if you want to be competitive. You don't just hire a few engineers and they will come up with a new chip in a few months.

To be honest, I don't see Apple going that route. The end-user doesn't care what's inside as long as "it just works". The SoC market is also fairly crowded now that Intel is joining the party as well.

Why sow your own seeds while you can just wait for others to do it and grab the fruits?

Of course, reality is never quite that simple, but I'm willing to bet that following Apple's development guidelines will go a long way towards ensuring this works. Apple could probably have the entire OS X App Store ARM friendly in record time. Its things like MS Office and Adobe CS (not to mention all those Photoshop plug-ins) that would take time.

I think that is the problem. People will be hesitant to switch for ARM based machine if it means lots of compromises.

Also, I don't really see what ARM would do better than Intel. I see lots of claims about battery life but in all honesty, that's 100% speculation. The ARM devices we have nowadays don't run full-blown OSs like OS X - they run OSs that are designed for more crippled hardware. There is no real multitasking for example. I can't have three browser windows open side by side all playing Youtube. Hence you can't compare the battery life fairly, OS X needs way more resources to begin with. Heck, the RAM requirement is 2GB in Lion while the most we have in iDevice is 512MB.

Moreover, the ARM chips we have today are designed for devices like phones and tablets - not for laptops and desktops like Intel chips are. We really have no idea how ARM would do at the same performance level. I would claim that ARM is way behind in performance per core and watt. Adding cores and frequency works to some degree but at some point, you will hit the wall. Software is extremely slow to support multithreading. We have had quad core CPUs for over 5 years but the support isn't overwhelming, let alone when we go past four cores. Thus adding more and more cores doesn't work, and that's one of the reasons why Intel's Ivy Bridge is still quad core. Also, at least for Intel's chips, 4GHz seems to be a magical obstacle. When you achieve 4GHz, the power consumption start to go up substantially. I can't explain the reason behind that and whether it would be the same with ARM but it's partially due to current leakage and the physics of silicon.

An ARM based MBA wouldn't run at 1GHz like iDevices do. We should be looking at least 2GHz, possibly closer to 3GHz, so the performance drop from Intel wouldn't be totally laughable. We don't have any ARM chips at 3GHz, so we don't have any idea how they perform and how's the power consumption.

Okay, this got a bit long so I'll summarize here: The pros of ARM are more or less just speculation. There aren't any ARM chips that can beat Intel in performance. Performance and power consumption don't always scale up nicely. You can have a chip that is very efficient at 1GHz but not at 2.5GHz, or vice versa. Also, if Intel's Medfield is as good as it looks, it would bunk the ideology that ARM is superior to x86 in terms of efficiency.
 
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Abazigal said:
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I'm misquoting but ... "the iPad will soon satisfy those looking for an ARM based macbook air"

Why do I foolishly keep praying for a dual screen clamshell iPad?

You can already simulate that using the logitech bluetooth keyboard for the ipad2. Why does Apple need to release a new offering altogether? Or do you mean using one ipad as a keyboard for the 2nd? :confused:

Some mix of using one screen as a keyboard for the other that pops in and out with requirement.

I know the concept has been developed by others, I think asus made one and Sony made a 'pocketable' one that looks hideous, but one can certainly imagine Apple pushing an iDevice that has a small laptop form factor, just with a software keyboard instead of physical. A true 'iBook'. It would annihilate the low end Apple notebook market though.
 
Smart move, think many people take comfort in knowing they COULD install windows if they needed it. Going ARM would remove that option.
 
If an MBA can be used to develop apps, so can an iPad.

All it takes is Apple making the choice to allow.

Hooking up several 30" monitors to work efficiently in certain fields as many do on a Mac seems a bit of a stretch to imagine on an iPad. I think we will have Macs around for a long time to come and better iPads every year. What I do see is ever more interfacing between Mac apps and iPad apps as seen with Garage Band when you can take a project straight from iPad into your Mac and seamlessly expand the capabilities. Same with iWork.

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Smart move, think many people take comfort in knowing they COULD install windows if they needed it. Going ARM would remove that option.

Apps such as Onlive make the need to run Windows directly unnesseccary even now. Let some remote server do it for you and then there is no need to suffer all the pain that goes along with running Windows yourself. If you haven't tried Onlive on the iPad you should. Then of course there is Splashtop allowing younto run your own remote server and access to everything on your Mac. Running FCP X on an iPad is quite fun.
 
Didn't Steve say in the 2007 keynote that the iPhone would run 'OS X'? Does that mean that Mac OS and iOS were originally one and the same.

Personally I can see iOS replacing Mac OS in the near future, but this is certainly not a future I want to happen. iOS is just to 'dumbed down' compared to Mac.
 
This would be an interesting product, but I do think Apple will leave the iPad to fill this gap in the market. An ARM MBA would be a netbook basically, but as Steve Jobs said, "netbooks aren't better at anything!"

If any company could pull something like this off, it'd be Apple, but I think Tim Cook was being truthful when he said they wouldn't bother.
 
Sp Apple is discontinuing the MacBook Air? This is really sad news, because I thought the MacBook Air was a really great product Apple had going for them. Sad to see Apple will not be going forward with their future expansion into A5. Looks like this is end-of line for the MacBook Air, I guess.
 
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Not just more powerful but a wider lineup. The conversation seemed to imply that they expect the hardware line up to be able to handle additional user needs in the future. That could mean the AMD old iPad becomes more powerful.

I could see larger ipads displacing consumer lighter laptops at some point, but some people on here are way too demanding in their expectations. They don't seem to look at rate of progression in supporting technology.

Why would Apple go to a vastly inferior CPU in terms of computing power for the MacBook Air when Intel has made tremendous strides in lowering the TDP of their mobile CPU's?

Half the Apple fans on here believe themselves to be a Mini Me version of Steve Jobs. They're basically looking at what has already happened with the ipad and iphone rather than what's happening in cpus currently under development which is a big mistake. It's like the other post I responded to that suggested no one would own a desktop/laptop within five years simply because they tried to extrapolate growth via drawing theoretical tangents. There are so many people who post on here that don't read up on tech and lack basic math skills :rolleyes:. I would suggest just ignoring them.

An ARM based MBA wouldn't run at 1GHz like iDevices do. We should be looking at least 2GHz, possibly closer to 3GHz, so the performance drop from Intel wouldn't be totally laughable. We don't have any ARM chips at 3GHz, so we don't have any idea how they perform and how's the power consumption.

Okay, this got a bit long so I'll summarize here: The pros of ARM are more or less just speculation. There aren't any ARM chips that can beat Intel in performance. Performance and power consumption don't always scale up nicely. You can have a chip that is very efficient at 1GHz but not at 2.5GHz, or vice versa. Also, if Intel's Medfield is as good as it looks, it would bunk the ideology that ARM is superior to x86 in terms of efficiency.

You know.. ARM has just become another buzz word associated with coolness on the uneducated consumer end. It's like how LED backlighting became a display "feature". I'm not saying that doesn't have good points, but most of it was marketing hype. I'm speaking specifically about computer displays, not televisions. You're correct about scaling. We have no idea how that will play out. Intel has been really aggressive here, yet everyone on here simply states this as a foregone conclusion simply because Apple is currently using ARM in phones and tablets. The other one that amuses me is that everyone expects the Air and Pro lines to merge (especially the idea that they'd merge in the next couple cycles) when Apple actually employs all available ULV cpus in the current Air lineup. It is possible that the ULV cpus will become the norm before too long, but that's at least 2014 (die shrink, haswell supposed to take less power, then another die shrink).

No ARM MBA, but does rapid iOS innovation mean an iOS laptop or hybrid?

I could see a larger ipad if the ipad became fully usable as a standalone device with appropriate levels of storage/IO and ability to back up and perform all tasks without another computer being involved. They're very light, and you don't really have to rest them on anything as you would a laptop.
 
Smart move, think many people take comfort in knowing they COULD install windows if they needed it. Going ARM would remove that option.

Windows 8 will also be available in an ARM edition. If Microsoft ports Office to it, then it has a fighting chance to gain traction.
 
Care to explain the whole "back to the mac" concepts then and the ridiculous ios inspired features in Lion. Apple is trying to merge them even though what you said about the two really needing to be different.

There's absolutely no indication that Apple is trying to merge them. They brought some demoable features from iOS to OS X, that's it.

Their API's are quite different and getting more different in each iteration on both platforms. If anything, they are spreading away from each other.

Apple may kill OS X at some point only, but not merge with iOS.

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Didn't Steve say in the 2007 keynote that the iPhone would run 'OS X'? Does that mean that Mac OS and iOS were originally one and the same.

Personally I can see iOS replacing Mac OS in the near future, but this is certainly not a future I want to happen. iOS is just to 'dumbed down' compared to Mac.
iPhone already did run OS X. But not the desktop OS X obviously.

iOS can't "replace" OS X in any future, because iOS is a multitouch OS. As long as Apple sells macs that use a mouse, we'll have OS X.
 
Sp Apple is discontinuing the MacBook Air? This is really sad news, because I thought the MacBook Air was a really great product Apple had going for them. Sad to see Apple will not be going forward with their future expansion into A5. Looks like this is end-of line for the MacBook Air, I guess.

You must be confused. There is no chance of Apple discontinuing the MacBook Air. It has inspired a new generation of slim-and-powerful laptops. And as Apple continues to grab lower sections of the market, focus is likely to shift from the Pro to the Air.
 
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