Article Suggests iPhone is to Blame for AT&T's Network Failures

[lilo777]

Your interpretation is flawed

A flaw that I see with this is the question of whether the data rating AT&T's network near (at?) the bottom in performance according to customer experience was so severely affected by iPhone users, which this article seems to suggest are the only ones really affected by bad network experience. I mean, even if every iPhone user said that the network satisfaction was the worst possible, what percentage of AT&T customers are actually iPhone users? If we were to suppose 10%, and, as the article suggests, the rest should find AT&T's network to be the best, then this would hardly pull AT&T all the way to the bottom of overall user satisfaction.

It seems clear that this issue isn't as clear cut as this article seems to be trying to make it out to be. While there may be some truth to the issue that they bring up, to blame all of AT&T's perceived network issues solely on the iPhone's "air interface" just doesn't ring true.

Read ythe article. It says iPhones intefere with the work of entire network thus all customers are affected not just iPhone ownes. Poor non-iPhone suckers. I understand why iPhone owners put up with crappy network. But why others have to suffer?

 

[Livestfastest]

AT&T can't keep up with the saturation of data from iPhone users.

If exclusivity were with Verizon, the same issue would be occurring, and might even be worse.

I totally agree.

And while it's possible Verizon has an advantage in overall 3G coverage, recent Apple ads seem to suggest Verizon's weakest link, the inability to be on the phone and get on the internet at the same time, which is a true AT&T advantage whether it's 3G or 2.5G. You can't check that restaurant location while chatting with a friend you're meeting on Verizon. You have to hang up, get online, then call them back. Apple's new commercials are slick and point that out, but interestingly do not mention Verizon.

This is what leads me to believe there will be a Verizon iPhone soon.

Verizon attacked AT&T more than Apple.

Exclusivity and popularity and the U.S.'s terrible cell phone infrastructure in general is the main problem, not AT&T.

 

[lilo777]

This could the AT&T's new advertising slogan.

Apple, on the other hand, can now claim that their phone has the feature (interference) no other phone on earth has (and this is what they call "think different")

 

[lilo777]

Wrong

I totally agree.

And while it's possible Verizon has an advantage in overall 3G coverage, recent Apple ads seem to suggest Verizon's weakest link, the inability to be on the phone and get on the internet at the same time, which is a true AT&T advantage whether it's 3G or 2.5G. You can't check that restaurant location while chatting with a friend you're meeting on Verizon. You have to hang up, get online, then call them back. Apple's new commercials are slick and point that out, but interestingly do not mention Verizon.

This is what leads me to believe there will be a Verizon iPhone soon.

Verizon attacked AT&T more than Apple.

Exclusivity and popularity and the U.S.'s terrible cell phone infrastructure in general is the main problem, not AT&T.

There is no voice and data sharing on EDGE (2.5G). Verizon customers can probably still have shared voice and data but not in a conventional sense - they can use Vonage (VOIP) for talking and because all other platforms (but iPhone) support real multitasking they can use data connection simultaneously.

 

[lostngone]

Well, we all knew that the iPhone was going to be a large consumer of data. AT&T knew this so I have no sympathy for them. AT&T bit off more then they can chew.

You can't deliberately shoot yourself in the foot and then cry and expect sympathy from people.

 

[bmacir]

If it’s the iPhone’s fault, not AT&T’s, why aren’t iPhone users around the world having the same problems as those here in the U.S.?

Who said that iPhone users around the world aren't having the same problems?
I am.

 

[Livestfastest]

There is no voice and data sharing on EDGE (2.5G). Verizon customers can probably still have shared voice and data but not in a conventional sense - they can use Vonage (VOIP) for talking and because all other platforms (but iPhone) support real multitasking they can use data connection simultaneously.

Thanks for correcting me.
I wasn't aware of the EDGE limitation since I only get 3G here, but it's quite clear Apple is targeting VERIZON in the recent iPhone commercials for this limitation.

And no one uses all those fancy tricks on Verizon to accomplish the same thing except the tech types because they are a pain to do. Let's face it, most cell phone users, even smartphone users are not that motivated.

The point remains though, and Apple has clearly pointed this out, that there is NO VOICE & DATA sharing at all on Verizon's network, 3G or not. Apple just chose not to call Verizon out on it by name, but it's clear they are referring to Verizon.

 

[the vj]

The iphone is the beast of cell phones! I would be on the bus listening to a podcast. Next thing I'm on itunes buying tracks. Then I'm downloading apps. And the ease at which I do those things is staggering. No other phone even comes close to the iphone experience.

Keep your comments on topic.

Is abvious the article is a maneouver to cheat some investors at AT&T and distract the attention in public opinion but it will last the day went out and that is it. There is nothing wrong with the iPhone.

 

[FightTheFuture]

Verizon customers can probably still have shared voice and data but not in a conventional sense - they can use Vonage (VOIP) for talking and because all other platforms (but iPhone) support real multitasking they can use data connection simultaneously.

wow lilo! 8 posts in 10 minutes! didn't know the trolls stay up this late. it's going to be tough touting both verizon and t-mobile when the 'real google phone' is released. considering at&t already admitted fault in the dense areas, i don't see why speculation from the nytimes has any credibility.

 

[MrCubes]

Well I'm in and around London on O2 and I have noticed a significant degredation over time in the quality of service. In certain areas, such as London Bridge where I currently work - and Canary Wharf where I used to work, I regularly get full, or near full, bars but can't get data or make or receive calls!
I had attributed this to over-subscribed cells, since these are areas that are heavy with users, and with high ratio of iPhone users in particular (using a lot more data than most). This article has given me more food for thought, although I remain skeptical about "air interference".

Either way its been a serious enough problem that I'd been considering unlocking the phone and using another network, despite my ongoing contract with O2. Which sucks. However I did theorize that as the exclusivity with O2 ended and other networks began to "share the load" that we would start to see a pick up in service. I have to say that over the last month or so, since Orange have started to carry the iPhone, I have noticed an improvement in quality! Even other people have commented on how they can actually reach me when I'm at work now. It's still a little too anecdotal to be evidence, but it's a good sign. I'm not sure how that relates to this article, though.

In any event I believe my contract with O2 finishes next month and I'll be looking to move to Orange or Vodafone.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Yet another problem solved by killing the exclusivity bs.

Instead of sitting around pointing fingers, as AT&T is content to do, hopefully Apple is focusing on fixing the problem, by opening the device up to multiple carriers.

 

[Analog Kid]

I'm just not buying this... iPhone passed qualification by all the necessary testing agencies, and AT&T undoubtedly tested it before it shipped. If it were such a threat, AT&T shouldn't have let it on their network.

 

[guet]

Apple, on the other hand, can now claim that their phone has the feature (interference) no other phone on earth has (and this is what they call "think different")

You seem determined to vociferously defend AT&T by answering every post on this thread with some retort. Why is that, do you work there?

In the UK, the iPhone has not seen such major problems with reception, or we'd be reading about it all over the O2 boards and here, and yet it has sold well, probably especially in cities, so this does seem to be limited to the US and AT&T. The most reasonable conclusion is that AT&T 3G network just can't keep up with the traffic it's seeing. That or there is something specific to the interaction with the network in the US that is to blame.

 

[lilo777]

It's 10pm in Honolulu

wow lilo! 8 posts in 10 minutes! didn't know the trolls stay up this late. it's going to be tough touting both verizon and t-mobile when the 'real google phone' is released. considering at&t already admitted fault in the dense areas, i don't see why speculation from the nytimes has any credibility.

Well, AT&T could not nut admit the problems in dense areas but I do not think they actually gave technical explanation. In any case, according to the article, AT&T is not willing to blame iPhone as long as it brings more customers (this would be self-defeating).

And you are right, this article along is not enough to make a conclusion. On the other hand, counter-arguments from iPhone fans here are much more ridiculous

 

[lilo777]

I'm just not buying this... iPhone passed qualification by all the necessary testing agencies, and AT&T undoubtedly tested it before it shipped. If it were such a threat, AT&T shouldn't have let it on their network.

Why not? Did not iPhone bring tons of new customers to AT&T? As they say, "think different". As long as business is good who cares that customers can not make calls

 

[kdarling]

I'm just not buying this... iPhone passed qualification by all the necessary testing agencies, and AT&T undoubtedly tested it before it shipped. If it were such a threat, AT&T shouldn't have let it on their network.

There is precedent. Remember the network mess with the original iPhone 3G baseband code?

That was something that should've showed up in testing as well.

Power control code blamed for iPhone network interference

Basically, a mistake in the iPhone WCDMA code kept ramping up the cell power output until other users were forced to drop. Owners were urged to update to fixed code.

The latest OS uptake statistics show that there are still a lot of iPhone users on the old 2.x code. Just a few 3G owners with the original code would mess up a cell. Perhaps that's part of what's going on.

 

[Livestfastest]

FACT: U.S. cellular infrastructure is way behind Europe and Japan.

It doesn't matter what "exclusive" carrier the iPhone is on in the U.S.
There would still be similar problems, just in different areas.

I'm not defending AT&T either, I'm just stating a fact of life.

Personally I don't like AT&T, but I don't really like Verizon either.
Most people hate their cell carriers!

I don't think the iPhone is like defective or anything.
I simply believe it's too powerful of a device for the U.S.'s current cell phone infrastructure.

And that's the fault of the FCC & the U.S. Government, not AT&T.

 

[lilo777]

How is the weather?

You seem determined to vociferously defend AT&T by answering every post on this thread with some retort. Why is that, do you work there?

In the UK, the iPhone has not seen such major problems with reception, or we'd be reading about it all over the O2 boards and here, and yet it has sold well, probably especially in cities, so this does seem to be limited to the US and AT&T. The most reasonable conclusion is that AT&T 3G network just can't keep up with the traffic it's seeing. That or there is something specific to the interaction with the network in the US that is to blame.

Hi there. I happened to visit London in September. Can not say I saw a lot of iPhones. Another observation - a lot of people still using wired head sets (it's all BT here in US). As far as quality of service is concerned, just read a post from MrCubes a few posts above.

 

[Jpoon]

Yeah, AT&T just oversold their market in some areas of the country. Sure that has to do with new iPhone customers. But not necessarily with the phone specifically . That train of logic is begging to be picked apart.


ALSO, I don't know why Verizon is getting such good press. There are incidents with their network being ****** too in certain cases. Their customer service is the most terrible out of any company I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with. Also, I couldn't get coverage in my house with any of their phones so they let me out of my contract a year and a half early. Been with the iPhone / AT&T ever since.

I have 0 problems with AT&T in Memphis. I don't even pay attention to the BS that has been circulating on the internet for the most part. All I know is that my iPhone works great, and that my bill is a bit expensive. But hey, I have a great phone that does what it's supposed to do and a bit more.

 

[lilo777]

There is precedent. Remember the network mess with the original iPhone 3G baseband code?

Power control code blamed for iPhone network interference

Basically, a mistake in the iPhone WCDMA code kept ramping up the cell power output until other users were forced to drop. Owners were urged to update to fixed code.

That was something that should've showed up in testing as well.

The latest OS uptake stats I've seen, show that there are still a lot of iPhone users on the old 2.x code. Just a few 3G owners with the original code would mess up a cell.

This should not be all too surprising given the fact that Apple is a total newbie in communication area. Just check how Apple screwed up antennas in the latest AirPort Extreme - http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...4-more-surprises-from-the-new-airport-extreme

 

[jbplaya]

The argument of surfing the web while talking is laughable. That's about as useless as toting the Droid as a nice paper weight as well as a phone.

 

[michaelr123]

I totally agree.

And while it's possible Verizon has an advantage in overall 3G coverage, recent Apple ads seem to suggest Verizon's weakest link, the inability to be on the phone and get on the internet at the same time, which is a true AT&T advantage whether it's 3G or 2.5G. You can't check that restaurant location while chatting with a friend you're meeting on Verizon. You have to hang up, get online, then call them back. Apple's new commercials are slick and point that out, but interestingly do not mention Verizon.

This is what leads me to believe there will be a Verizon iPhone soon.

Verizon attacked AT&T more than Apple.

Exclusivity and popularity and the U.S.'s terrible cell phone infrastructure in general is the main problem, not AT&T.

My guess is the vast majority of people don't use this at all, so it would be next to irrelevant anyway.

 

[guet]

Hi there. I happened to visit London in September. Can not say I saw a lot of iPhones. Another observation - a lot of people still using wired head sets (it's all BT here in US). As far as quality of service is concerned, just read a post from MrCubes a few posts above.

I use an iPhone frequently in the UK - London, and see a lot of iPhones around. I've had 1 dropped call in the last year, and possibly 3 calls with bad reception. That doesn't sound anything like the issues in say NYC, where a 30% rate of dropped calls is the norm for AT&T. Mr Cubes is talking about specific areas which have a high concentration of smartphones (of all kinds) so I guess there may be issues with O2's network in those specific places, or with using an iPhone on a network when congested? Without proper testing (the testing in this article is anything but), it's hard to say which factor is most important, but given the correlation with high density usage, it seems strain on the network network is to blame.

If the problem were solely with the iPhone it wouldn't matter how many iPhones you saw, as any of them would have issues. I'm sure it doesn't have the best reception of all phones, but it is a pretty good phone in my experience.

 

[adztaylor]

Hi there. I happened to visit London in September. Can not say I saw a lot of iPhones. Another observation - a lot of people still using wired head sets (it's all BT here in US). As far as quality of service is concerned, just read a post from MrCubes a few posts above.

The iPhone sells incredibly well here in the UK.

 

[dr34mc4st3r]

Well I'm in and around London on O2 and I have noticed a significant degredation over time in the quality of service. In certain areas, such as London Bridge where I currently work - and Canary Wharf where I used to work, I regularly get full, or near full, bars but can't get data or make or receive calls!
I had attributed this to over-subscribed cells, since these are areas that are heavy with users, and with high ratio of iPhone users in particular (using a lot more data than most). This article has given me more food for thought, although I remain skeptical about "air interference".

Either way its been a serious enough problem that I'd been considering unlocking the phone and using another network, despite my ongoing contract with O2. Which sucks. However I did theorize that as the exclusivity with O2 ended and other networks began to "share the load" that we would start to see a pick up in service. I have to say that over the last month or so, since Orange have started to carry the iPhone, I have noticed an improvement in quality! Even other people have commented on how they can actually reach me when I'm at work now. It's still a little too anecdotal to be evidence, but it's a good sign. I'm not sure how that relates to this article, though.

In any event I believe my contract with O2 finishes next month and I'll be looking to move to Orange or Vodafone.

i would say its o2's fault. im in london for a few months and realised o2 coverage is rubbish. whats the use of unlimited internet when many times there's no data coming through! i don't have such problems back at my home country's telco