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Article Suggests iPhone is to Blame for AT&T's Network Failures
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Never had a problem in Sweden with my iPhone, nor have I heard about anyone else having problems. Never had a dropped call myself and is getting about 2.1 Mbit/s download speed on 3G. And (of course) I have free tethering included in the service plan (although with a total 5 GByte per month cap).
It seems hard not blaming AT&T for the problems...
Compile 'em all
macrumors 601
I cannot recall having heard of such problems from France or Germany (whose tech-media I follow), nor do I recall dropped calls myself (or from my iPhone-using acquaintances). Whereas my Razr occasionally just would not dial.
But maybe it is only Americans liking to bitch about it much more.😀
kernkraft
macrumors 68020
I think it's a combination of things... poor network and limited hardware
I live in the UK, but I recently have been to the US and Canada with my iPhone. I am on O2 and in our rural home setting, I have very poor reception. Nevertheless, it is enough to cover most parts of the house with minimal signal (1-2 bars, no 3G). Most of our phones had problems with this, but I think we have more dropping phone calls with the iPhone. It is not dramatic, but it is noticeable, a minor annoyance. Furthermore, recently I stayed in Central London and a friend of mine had his HTC phone with him. The iPhone's GPS regularly placed me to south London or streets away from our actual location. The HTC seemed to have handled the situation better and faster. The iPhone is getting dated, there is no question about it. Two and a half year (or two, in case of the 3G) is a long time in telecommunication. That is why I expect some minor cosmetic changes in the next revision. These devices demand larger aerials/antennas/loops. I haven't got any experience with the 3GS, but I saw some threads claiming similar problems, concerning fluctuating network signal strength.
When I used my iPhone in various large cities in the US and in Canada, I've had a completely different experience. Service WAS significantly poorer. Most of the times my iPhone connected onto AT&T's networks (not in Canada), but data roaming was ridiculously slow and unreliable. In fact, I was wondering, why people even bothered with any smart phones, especially at that price. I paid £340 (around $540) for my 3G, with unlimited internet for a year, on a 'pay-as-you-go' card. I've had another iPhone in the past, but I didn't want to tie myself into a long contract with a phone that I always knew was not the best for making calls. I still use my Nokia for making phone calls. It is stupid, but that is the harsh reality. My battery wouldn't last half a day otherwise.
Most of us believe in the free market and competition. With these exclusive network deals, tie-ins and restrictions, I wonder, whether that is really the case. I had to go to the US to see that it is actually the land of monopolies, not the free market.
I live in the UK, but I recently have been to the US and Canada with my iPhone. I am on O2 and in our rural home setting, I have very poor reception. Nevertheless, it is enough to cover most parts of the house with minimal signal (1-2 bars, no 3G). Most of our phones had problems with this, but I think we have more dropping phone calls with the iPhone. It is not dramatic, but it is noticeable, a minor annoyance. Furthermore, recently I stayed in Central London and a friend of mine had his HTC phone with him. The iPhone's GPS regularly placed me to south London or streets away from our actual location. The HTC seemed to have handled the situation better and faster. The iPhone is getting dated, there is no question about it. Two and a half year (or two, in case of the 3G) is a long time in telecommunication. That is why I expect some minor cosmetic changes in the next revision. These devices demand larger aerials/antennas/loops. I haven't got any experience with the 3GS, but I saw some threads claiming similar problems, concerning fluctuating network signal strength.
When I used my iPhone in various large cities in the US and in Canada, I've had a completely different experience. Service WAS significantly poorer. Most of the times my iPhone connected onto AT&T's networks (not in Canada), but data roaming was ridiculously slow and unreliable. In fact, I was wondering, why people even bothered with any smart phones, especially at that price. I paid £340 (around $540) for my 3G, with unlimited internet for a year, on a 'pay-as-you-go' card. I've had another iPhone in the past, but I didn't want to tie myself into a long contract with a phone that I always knew was not the best for making calls. I still use my Nokia for making phone calls. It is stupid, but that is the harsh reality. My battery wouldn't last half a day otherwise.
Most of us believe in the free market and competition. With these exclusive network deals, tie-ins and restrictions, I wonder, whether that is really the case. I had to go to the US to see that it is actually the land of monopolies, not the free market.
entropys
macrumors 65816
In Australia, all carriers and MNVOs have the iphone. (disclosure, I use an unlocked iphone on virginmobile in the city, and Telstra in the country)
The buildout of the various networks goes
Telstra (best);Optus medium;Vodafone; '3' smallest.. Some of these also have roaming arrangements with the others
(Virgin is an MNVO and subsidiary of Optus, but operates as a separate business but uses the optus network. You can also get iphones through them).
You can also buy outright from Apple unlocked and go with whoever, and even if the iphone is bought on contract, you can pay to get it unlocked, or get it unlocked after a certain time for free.
So, how does the iphone do on various networks?
Optus & Virgin have the best deals, so most people have gone with them.
Result: Optus suffers constant loss of network issues. The network cannot handle the massive increase in data volumes. They have minimised dropped calls however, by prioritising calls over data services. This can be very annoying though when you are accessing data, but a solution I have found is to turn airplane mode on and off. I think this is because for some reason the network thinks you are a new entrant to that tower and lets you on.
Telstra has hands down the best network, but charge like wounded bulls for access. There are no problems whatsoever with this network. it is fast, reliable and never drops a call. But as a company they hate the iphone, as users tend to treat Telstra as a dumb pipe, and Telstra want to sell you a lot of 'value added'
All that said, the likely answer as to whether or not it is AT&T or the iphone to blame for the US problems, based on a network comparison in Australia?
It's the network, stupid!
The buildout of the various networks goes
Telstra (best);Optus medium;Vodafone; '3' smallest.. Some of these also have roaming arrangements with the others
(Virgin is an MNVO and subsidiary of Optus, but operates as a separate business but uses the optus network. You can also get iphones through them).
You can also buy outright from Apple unlocked and go with whoever, and even if the iphone is bought on contract, you can pay to get it unlocked, or get it unlocked after a certain time for free.
So, how does the iphone do on various networks?
Optus & Virgin have the best deals, so most people have gone with them.
Result: Optus suffers constant loss of network issues. The network cannot handle the massive increase in data volumes. They have minimised dropped calls however, by prioritising calls over data services. This can be very annoying though when you are accessing data, but a solution I have found is to turn airplane mode on and off. I think this is because for some reason the network thinks you are a new entrant to that tower and lets you on.
Telstra has hands down the best network, but charge like wounded bulls for access. There are no problems whatsoever with this network. it is fast, reliable and never drops a call. But as a company they hate the iphone, as users tend to treat Telstra as a dumb pipe, and Telstra want to sell you a lot of 'value added'
All that said, the likely answer as to whether or not it is AT&T or the iphone to blame for the US problems, based on a network comparison in Australia?
It's the network, stupid!
vvebsta
macrumors 6502a
I honestly feel bad for the poor souls that are setting up the 3G network... its not like they aren't doing anything...
12/09/2009 AT&T Brings 3G Mobile Broadband Network to More Area of New River Valley
- Christiansburg, Virginia
12/08/2009 AT&T Brings 3G Mobile Broadband Network to Fredericksburg
- Fredericksburg, Texas
12/07/2009 AT&T Brings 3G Mobile Broadband Network to Front Royal
- Front Royal, Virginia
12/02/2009 AT&T Brings 3G Mobile Broadband Network to Appleton, Green Bay and Oshkosh - Green Bay, Wisconsin
11/27/2009 AT&T Brings 3G Mobile Broadband Network to Roanoke
- Roanoke, Virginia
...its just that AT&T needs to hire an army of workers and get their network up to speed. Heck they should be putting in 4G networks not 3G.
12/09/2009 AT&T Brings 3G Mobile Broadband Network to More Area of New River Valley
- Christiansburg, Virginia
12/08/2009 AT&T Brings 3G Mobile Broadband Network to Fredericksburg
- Fredericksburg, Texas
12/07/2009 AT&T Brings 3G Mobile Broadband Network to Front Royal
- Front Royal, Virginia
12/02/2009 AT&T Brings 3G Mobile Broadband Network to Appleton, Green Bay and Oshkosh - Green Bay, Wisconsin
11/27/2009 AT&T Brings 3G Mobile Broadband Network to Roanoke
- Roanoke, Virginia
...its just that AT&T needs to hire an army of workers and get their network up to speed. Heck they should be putting in 4G networks not 3G.
I use my iPhone on AT&T in LA, but have unlocked it and use Virgin in the UK. The difference is massive. I can barely receive or keep a call on AT&T, whilst reception on Virgin is not only consistently good, but louder too.
I've had surprisingly many dropped calls since I bought my 3G S last summer. Reception is subpar when compared to my old Nokia E70, which had its own problems, but did not drop calls. iPhone can't get 3G connectivity at all in places where my E70 had no problems. Sometimes the disappearance of 3G connection leads to No Carrier and it takes a long time to find EDGE (or even GPRS) network. Oh, and this is in Finland.
Could be just my unit, but then again there's no way I could get a replacement on those grounds.
Perhaps they were using the headset that came with their phones? guessing Nokia or Sony phones which have had MP3 players and radios for years — phone manufacturers you're not used to in America.
Europe is light years ahead of the USA. Handsets are usually released six months to a year before they are released in the US. 4G is being rolled out, and 3.5G is available over most of the UK already.
I can understand if the AT&T network suffers from congestion in high dense areas, such as areas with skyscrapers. However, people in the suburbs are also suffering where density is quite low.
kernkraft
macrumors 68020
Different countries, different habits
There are lots of iPhones here, too. Only, we consider flashing phones rather vulgar. In the US, I saw so many people flashing their gadgets, that I felt embarrassed for them. I especially 'liked', how many iPhone headsets were attached to much cheaper devices. I also noticed, how many use iPod Touches on the move. When I listen to music, I don't tend to play with the device and use the crap out of Coverflow.
I have a bluetooth headset and a wired headset. I prefer the wired one. The voice clarity is superior and I don't have to charge it all the time. Also, they are more comfortable as there is no extra weight for the transmitter.
There are lots of iPhones here, too. Only, we consider flashing phones rather vulgar. In the US, I saw so many people flashing their gadgets, that I felt embarrassed for them. I especially 'liked', how many iPhone headsets were attached to much cheaper devices. I also noticed, how many use iPod Touches on the move. When I listen to music, I don't tend to play with the device and use the crap out of Coverflow.
I have a bluetooth headset and a wired headset. I prefer the wired one. The voice clarity is superior and I don't have to charge it all the time. Also, they are more comfortable as there is no extra weight for the transmitter.
Simple fix
Just like a falling tree does not make a noise when there is nobody there to hear it, AT&T's network works perfectly and is the best and fastest in the world with the best coverage as long as you keep your phone switched off. I even got an AT&T signal on both North and South poles and I believe even the moon and mars got great coverage too. The trick is to switch you damn phones off to get it all working properly.
On a serious note, here in the UK O2's coverage is so poor (at least for me) that I can't even use most of the features of the phone. Will be switching to Orange next month which has better coverage and friendlier service (I hope)
Just like a falling tree does not make a noise when there is nobody there to hear it, AT&T's network works perfectly and is the best and fastest in the world with the best coverage as long as you keep your phone switched off. I even got an AT&T signal on both North and South poles and I believe even the moon and mars got great coverage too. The trick is to switch you damn phones off to get it all working properly.
On a serious note, here in the UK O2's coverage is so poor (at least for me) that I can't even use most of the features of the phone. Will be switching to Orange next month which has better coverage and friendlier service (I hope)
No.
Fail.
Wrong.
AT&T are to blame for AT&T's network failures. Any idiot could have told them that there would be huge network demand on 3 and 2.5G networks when the phone was launched. Their high tarrifs and mandatory data subscription are there to pay for that network.
What AT&T has failed to do is invest in their network early enough, rapidly enough and thoroughly enough to keep up with demand.
For that, the blame lies firmly, fully, entirely and wholly at the feet of AT&T, not the iPhone or its users.
SimonTheSoundMa said:
Errr... no it isn't. Not even slightly. Not even 3G is available over 'most' of the UK. There is 3G available in most suburban and urban areas - but beyond that, if you're lucky 2.5G, if you're not - nothing.
cyclotron451
macrumors regular
3G physics
3G or UMTS/WCDMA is based around 1700 to 2100MHz RF frequency. These frequencies are quite strictly LOS line of sight only, they don't propagate well through buildings. Compare this with the GSM frequencies which are lower around 750 - 950MHz and can usually get indoors. Now that the GSM A5/1 and A5/2 crypto algorithms have been comprehensively hacked such that all GSM is to be considered plaintext it makes more sense to use 3G more, as there are no known security problems with this standard. Separately, the European Commission (law proposer) has mandated in 2009 that all EU telecoms companies shall introduce the 3G waveforms at GSM frequencies. This is expected to roll-out (after some legal fighting over 'monopolies') over the next 2 yrs. In the early days of 3G there were problems with RF doppler shift (UMTS was designed for non moving users!) and the 3G cells would start to drop power levels to an individual user once more and more devices roamed onto the base-station.
How this affects the iPhone, dunno! we only get 3G in the big cities in Italy, the 3G phone which is very popular works reasonably well in the suburbs, in order for a product such as iPhone to be allowed 'on-air' it MUST meet the ETSI/FCC emissions masks. statements such as "AT&T network being broken by a **** phone", don't seem to make sense unless **** is one of the ChiPhones that I've seen which cost around 30 Euros and may well not meet any standards at all
3G or UMTS/WCDMA is based around 1700 to 2100MHz RF frequency. These frequencies are quite strictly LOS line of sight only, they don't propagate well through buildings. Compare this with the GSM frequencies which are lower around 750 - 950MHz and can usually get indoors. Now that the GSM A5/1 and A5/2 crypto algorithms have been comprehensively hacked such that all GSM is to be considered plaintext it makes more sense to use 3G more, as there are no known security problems with this standard. Separately, the European Commission (law proposer) has mandated in 2009 that all EU telecoms companies shall introduce the 3G waveforms at GSM frequencies. This is expected to roll-out (after some legal fighting over 'monopolies') over the next 2 yrs. In the early days of 3G there were problems with RF doppler shift (UMTS was designed for non moving users!) and the 3G cells would start to drop power levels to an individual user once more and more devices roamed onto the base-station.
How this affects the iPhone, dunno! we only get 3G in the big cities in Italy, the 3G phone which is very popular works reasonably well in the suburbs, in order for a product such as iPhone to be allowed 'on-air' it MUST meet the ETSI/FCC emissions masks. statements such as "AT&T network being broken by a **** phone", don't seem to make sense unless **** is one of the ChiPhones that I've seen which cost around 30 Euros and may well not meet any standards at all
They can't do that, without more 3G, people will realize that Apple commercial is only good in the little blue area, not the big 2G areas.
Regarding Grubers claim; iPhone users around the world do have the same problems. iPhone is probably the coolest phone out there but at the same time most unreliable. I'm on my fourth iPhone and I've started thinking I would be better off with some other phone and iPod...
diamond.g
macrumors G5
From my understanding of the split between voice and data on CDMA2000 networks, I don't think Verizon would see the same problem.
I had to switch away from O2 in the UK because their data service was so crap. It showed full bars in my house yet it would often trickle down. On the way into town on the bus I would lose data altogether, completely defeating the purpose of the 3.5g network. I wonder if the iPhone has anything to do with it. Probably not, there aren't a lot of iPhone owners in my city.
wife's Samsung was terrible on the AT&T network... ummm it's not an iPhone. Don't travel through the Midwest with At&T, you get laughed at.
Here in Sweden, Telia was the only iPhone carrier for a pretty long time under that time I had one dropped call, the person I was talking with was in a basement. I also had tethering and MMS the same day 3.0 was out.
iZac
macrumors 68040
Sounds to me like load of bollocks from a company who run their data network on a shoe-string budget.
"users taking advantage of data on their own phones? prepostererous!"
You could argue that its Apples fault that they provide such a fucntional browser that leads people to use their damn phones as they're supposed to be used!
"users taking advantage of data on their own phones? prepostererous!"
You could argue that its Apples fault that they provide such a fucntional browser that leads people to use their damn phones as they're supposed to be used!
I don't know what to make of this:
If the iphone is to blame you would expect the poor service to be constant.
But in the last couple months the service in my area has gotten worse in some places and better in others.
I used to have really good coverage were I live, but lately I've been getting a lot more dropped calls. Its almost like we lost a cell tower or something.
On the other hand were I work in metro detroit coverage is actually a bit better.
I noticed time of day makes a difference to, with voice and especially data.
Over last month I have been testing a streaming video application we are hopeing to submit really soon. And before anyone comments I know the risks of that, but I figure it will be approved for at least wifi. And its worth the risk because over wifi it works great. Even for watching 2 hour good resolution movies.
What I've noticed is that in the morning, around the time I am heading for work 5:00 am streaming is somewhat watchable, but by noon the quality over 3g is more like a slow scan video. It doesn't lose it because the media server accounts for signal degregation, but you have to press the play button repeatedly.
If the iphone is to blame you would expect the poor service to be constant.
But in the last couple months the service in my area has gotten worse in some places and better in others.
I used to have really good coverage were I live, but lately I've been getting a lot more dropped calls. Its almost like we lost a cell tower or something.
On the other hand were I work in metro detroit coverage is actually a bit better.
I noticed time of day makes a difference to, with voice and especially data.
Over last month I have been testing a streaming video application we are hopeing to submit really soon. And before anyone comments I know the risks of that, but I figure it will be approved for at least wifi. And its worth the risk because over wifi it works great. Even for watching 2 hour good resolution movies.
What I've noticed is that in the morning, around the time I am heading for work 5:00 am streaming is somewhat watchable, but by noon the quality over 3g is more like a slow scan video. It doesn't lose it because the media server accounts for signal degregation, but you have to press the play button repeatedly.
SeaFox
macrumors 68030
Isn't that funny?
When the iPhone came out it was supposed to change the cell phone industry forever, but it's really just more of the same. A device that remains locked down to a single carrier's network in such a way you question if actually bought it or not, and focuses so much on it's multimedia functionality that it's dismal at the task on making and receiving voice calls -- the very reason it's named a cell phone.
Sounds like every other "phone" made in the last five to ten years. The difference is the iPhone actually does some of those non-phone functions well.
