AT&T and Apple Tightening Policies to Reduce iPhone Unlocking

[jive turkey]

Republicans.

How sad it is that so many people want the government to be their momma and papa. For goodness sake people, you know what the deal is before you buy the phone, and if you don't like it DON'T GET IT! It isn't the responsibility of government to make all products available to you in the way you want them.

Don't want to get fat? Well, screw the choice of not eating at KFC, let's get the government to ban transfats! Hmmm, I wonder if the government would mind stepping in and mandating that Bravo find some way to get a high-def signal to my house so I can get the network in HD, since it is available with DirecTV but not my cable provider. That just isn't fair, darnit!

Let's look at some basic economics here. In a free market, what do you think is going to happen since the iPhone is locked in to AT&T for 4 more years? Do you think T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint are going to go into their respective closets and hide until these 4 years have passed? Or do you think they are going to say, "Screw this! We will develop a competitor to the iPhone!"

If you said the exclusive contract with AT&T will spur development of new phones, move to the head of the class. If the iPhone was available on all networks there would be no incentive for these carriers to invest in new technologies. Further, what will happen when new phones are developed? Why, Apple will have to improve the iPhone to keep up and AT&T will have to lower the prices (or resist increasing them) to stay competitive.

The reason wireless companies can get away with contracts is because people sign up for them. Stop signing up for contracts (use a prepaid service) and they will have no choice but to do away with them.

Within the next 18 months there will be a boat load of iPhone-like devices to choose from, and they will all be cheaper than the iPhone/AT&T combo is now. In response Apple will be forced to dramatically improve the iPhone, and everyone will be a winner....regardless of what cell phone carrier you are with.

 

[ruinfx]

I've worked in the Telecom industry for years...I've never seen any phone that cannot be unlocked. Most are shipped to Operators locked due to the prevalence of subsidies on phones by the Operators.
Some operators are great about unlocking phones for you once the contract terms are met (T-Mobile is on this side)...some would not unlock a phone for their own mother even if all contract terms are expired (AT&T falls into this camp).
Mobile phone manufacturers have been working with both hardware- and software-based as well as combo locks for years. But there is always a way to break whatever they try...this is the Telecom version of hacking.

What interests me more is T-Mobile's 3G roll-out on the AWS band (1.7 and 2.1 GHz). The iPhone 2.0 specs show it work in the 2.1 GHz band. (Makes sense that Apple ships the phone multi-frequency to deal with the fact the US's bands are always different than the rest of the world). So that means the 3G phone will work on T-Mobile's 3G later this year.

The few months it takes TMO to bring 3G to my local market should be enough time for a "backdoor" to open and allow us to buy and unlock the phones (it only took 2 months for iPhone 1.0). At $199, maybe I'll buy two.

im sorry to be the one to burst your bubble but:

1. t-mobile only uses 2100mhz for uplink. without 1700mhz you would have no downlink.
2. the 2100mhz used in europe and on the iphone is not the same as the 2100mhz that t-mobile is using here in the states and is incompatible.

if you want 3G on your iphone in the US you have to go with att. period.

 

[Lesser Evets]

AW POOH.

I live in a midwest area that gets no AT&T, and it would be good if they allowed unlocking for such areas. That's AT&T's fault, and it withholds business from Apple...

So contracts go, I suppose.

What's annoying is that I am 30 miles from AT&T's reach. -_-;
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I see people complaining about Apple going away from computers at the moment, acting like this is a downfall.
It isn't for the company. They are focusing on the phone because it will bring the big bux, and the phone will be the best case for people going over to Apple computers.

The home computer is hitting a ceiling in the next few years as technology is fleshing out boundaries. You can;t keep making screens until they are 50 feet long, and you can speed them up and add some bells and whistles, but ultimately I feel Apple will have to come to terms with a far lower end market if they want to sell more computers. The high end computers are going to hit a serious wall by 2012, I believe. There just isn't THAT much more you can do for the modern user in the hardware of the basic computer aside from jamming in more processors and memory. Apps and user interface will then be the area of focus.

Apple really isn't going wrong at this time, aside from maybe not pushing multi-touch flat screens as input. Apple needs to become proactive in computers again and define the market, instead of being reactive like Microsoftgenitals.

 

[tobyx]

Seeing the price at 199 means it is heavily subsidized and AT&T pays on top of each iPhone sold. It's just logical for them to protect their investments. I don't mind, the first iPhone as well as any other cell phone since the inception of cell phone contracts, was sold like this here in Germany.

They are also required by law to take your identity in person here.

 

[KaiMac]

ATT owns Apple - Cancel and Return Phone!

This really shows you how much ATT owns Apple at this point. So much for the buy, cancel, unlock strategy!

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Finally, BoyGeniusReport publishes an internal AT&T memo regarding the iPhone 3G and confirms that AT&T will require in-store activation. It also describes that the customer can cancel their phone after 30 days and pay an early termination fee. Cancelation within 30 days, however, requires the customer to return the phone (and get a refund).
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You got owned Steve, for real!

 

[edesignuk]

This really shows you how much ATT owns Apple at this point. So much for the buy, cancel, unlock strategy!

-------------
Finally, BoyGeniusReport publishes an internal AT&T memo regarding the iPhone 3G and confirms that AT&T will require in-store activation. It also describes that the customer can cancel their phone after 30 days and pay an early termination fee. Cancelation within 30 days, however, requires the customer to return the phone (and get a refund).
------------

You got owned Steve, for real!

How did he get "owned". AT&T want to ensure they get the money out of you to make sure their costs in subsiding the phone are recovered. It's got nothing to do with Apple.

 

[Robbadore64]

AT&T Contract question

Sorry, surely this has been covered somewhere else but I haven't seen it in all the posts I've read. Does anyone know if AT&T would make me renew (start over) another 2 year contract if say July 11th I buy an iPhone sign up with them, and then in four or five months Apple releases a 32gig iPhone which I'd like to upgrade to.

So if I merely upgrade my phone only, will they make me renew for another full 2 years?

Guess it doesn't matter, my Sprint contract is up this month and I guess the stars aligned for me for once.

 

[KaiMac]

How did he get "owned". AT&T want to ensure they get the money out of you to make sure their costs in subsiding the phone are recovered. It's got nothing to do with Apple.

You honestly think ATT is paying Apple 399$ and up for each iPhone they sell. Come on man. Ever heard of economies of scale. If ATT plans on selling 18 million of these things, they aren't paying ATTpple anywhere close to 399$ per iPhone. Steve got owned and it was a clear bait and switch, smoke and mirrors event on Monday.

- No More iTunes Activation on iPhone
- In Store Activation will kill the purchasing point experience Jobs is so adamant about. Anyone with experience activating at a Cingular/ATT store knows what a nightmare this is.
- iPhone is basically the same other than 3G (which most of us don't get coverage on) and the lame GPS App which no one will use.
- Higher Monthly Fee's for ATT means less Money for Apple customers to spend at the Apple Store / App Store / iTunes Store
- No more ability to unlock the phone and unleash the real power of it - it is officially crippled by ATT
- Just the length of the "Exclusive" relationship is a joke
- Now that the Phone is subsidized, good luck getting the new one you want in 9 months because you aren't eligible for a hardware upgrade, which is up to ATT to determine. Now ATT determines when you can buy a new iPhone, not the customer. Jobs really gave up a ton here.


This list goes on and on......he got owned Man, owned.

 

[edesignuk]

You honestly think ATT is paying Apple 399$ and up for each iPhone they sell. Come on man. Ever heard of economies of scale. If ATT plans on selling 18 million of these things, they aren't paying ATTpple anywhere close to 399$ per iPhone. Steve got owned and it was a clear bait and switch, smoke and mirrors event on Monday.

This list goes on and on......he got owned Man, owned.

We will never know the details, and no I don't think AT&T are paying any where near $399. They are however paying more than the $199 AT&T retail them for (with contract signed).

As far as Steve and Apple being "owned" as you so eloquently put it, Apple control the vast majority of service based income that a large user base of iPhone's will bring, and it's sustained long term income - iTMS Music+Video, App Store, and MobileMe. Money money money money, MONEY!

 

[ddTaylor]

Source? If this is true, I'll wait until my move to Glasgow in August and get one at a local store.

I told you the source - I talked to Apple direct. I also have e-mails into O2 for more details.

D

 

[samab]

We will never know the details, and no I don't think AT&T are paying any where near $399. They are however paying more than the $199 AT&T retail them for (with contract signed).

AT&T is going to be hit by about 10-12 cents a share --- that's 600 million - 720 million dollars a year.

If they move 3.6 million iphones in a year --- then they will know they took a $200 hit per iphone.

 

[KaiMac]

Why Won't ATT match O2?

I wonder why ATT won't match O2 in offering free upgrades to all existing iPhone customers in order to earn another 2 year contract with them and their higher fees?

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...iphone_customers_free_iphone_3g_upgrades.html

You would think Apple would be pushing ATT to do this since they aren't sharing revenue anymore on the monthly fees. It would certainly move a lot more phones for Apple and ATT could pay for them.

 

[BongoBanger]

I wonder why ATT won't match O2 in offering free upgrades to all existing iPhone customers in order to earn another 2 year contract with them and their higher fees?

I think it's because AT&T are new to the subsidy game whereas O2 understand how it works very well. The aim here is to retain high value customers, not alienate them.

 

[samab]

I think it's because AT&T are new to the subsidy game whereas O2 understand how it works very well. The aim here is to retain high value customers, not alienate them.

No, I think that Americans are smarter.

If you want to get the 16 GB iphone for free --- you have to sign a $150 per month plan in the UK

For the same $150 a month --- AT&T gives you unlimited voice minutes (the $99 unlimited plan), $30 (unlimited data) and $20 (unlimited SMS).

 

[KaiMac]

One thing is for sure, now that Apple has turned the iPhone into just another subsidized/commoditized phone you can buy from AT&T (who decides when you can upgrade your hardware), the luster has been worn off any big new iPhone releases. Hopefully WWDC won't be all about the iPhone next year. Can you imagine HTC staging such an event for every new phone they release?

 

[edesignuk]

No, I think that Americans are smarter.

If you want to get the 16 GB iphone for free --- you have to sign a $150 per month plan in the UK

For the same $150 a month --- AT&T gives you unlimited voice minutes (the $99 unlimited plan), $30 (unlimited data) and $20 (unlimited SMS).

You can't take a weak dollar, do some conversions and call us stupid Irony alert.

 

[jrbdmb]

So often you hear people on the right in this country use the word "Socialism" as if it means "Communism" to try and scare the people away from voting for rights for the people instead of the rights of a company to sell you what they want to sell you at whatever price they feel like selling it at and leaving you no choice if you want to heat your home or have things like electricity ...

A law for and by the people would mean Apple couldn't make exclusive deals with AT&T to force you into having no choice which carrier you can use. A law for and by the rich fat cows in the corporations means they screw you over any way they can and if you don't like it, don't buy it. Never mind if you like the product, but don't like the carriers. That doesn't matter. Go find another product. I believe certain Mac users like to say go buy a PC if you don't like the fact there's no expandable Mac until you get to the $2400 range so it should be a familiar concept around here.

So now we're equating buying an iPhone with heating your house or having electricity ...

 

[jrbdmb]

I've worked in the Telecom industry for years...I've never seen any phone that cannot be unlocked. Most are shipped to Operators locked due to the prevalence of subsidies on phones by the Operators.
Some operators are great about unlocking phones for you once the contract terms are met (T-Mobile is on this side)...some would not unlock a phone for their own mother even if all contract terms are expired (AT&T falls into this camp).
Mobile phone manufacturers have been working with both hardware- and software-based as well as combo locks for years. But there is always a way to break whatever they try...this is the Telecom version of hacking.

What interests me more is T-Mobile's 3G roll-out on the AWS band (1.7 and 2.1 GHz). The iPhone 2.0 specs show it work in the 2.1 GHz band. (Makes sense that Apple ships the phone multi-frequency to deal with the fact the US's bands are always different than the rest of the world). So that means the 3G phone will work on T-Mobile's 3G later this year.

The few months it takes TMO to bring 3G to my local market should be enough time for a "backdoor" to open and allow us to buy and unlock the phones (it only took 2 months for iPhone 1.0). At $199, maybe I'll buy two.

It would appear that the cost will be $199 + $70 (30 days service) + 175 (ETF) = $444 plus taxes. Considering what iPhones are selling for these days on eBay, not a bad price. Good luck.

 

[Sun Baked]

It would appear that the cost will be $199 + $70 (30 days service) + 175 (ETF) = $444 plus taxes. Considering what iPhones are selling for these days on eBay, not a bad price. Good luck.

And another $100 if you have to wait for the 2nd month to keep the phone and toss in activation fee.

Edit: we should know quite soon what will happen, since people should try bailing on AT&T the day they walk out the door with the phone and keep the iPhone refusing to send it back when AT&T requests its return.

 

[northy124]

No, I think that Americans are smarter.

If you want to get the 16 GB iphone for free --- you have to sign a $150 per month plan in the UK

For the same $150 a month --- AT&T gives you unlimited voice minutes (the $99 unlimited plan), $30 (unlimited data) and $20 (unlimited SMS).

WTF when did the UK start selling stuff in $? We (UK) earn and spend in £GBP, You (US) earn and spend in $USD, We have different ways of doing things plus if you go through the whole sign up thing you can add extras (Unlimited texts etc etc) for £7pm.

 

[samab]

You can't take a weak dollar, do some conversions and call us stupid Irony alert.

It's not just currency issues.

It's more about the lack of transparency of many financial markets around the world. Overseas carrier play the handset subsidies better because they don't have to file detailed SEC quarterly filings.

UK carriers like to do huge discounts on prepaid phones during christmas to boost their financial numbers --- guess what more than 50% of them are box broken and exported overseas. The carriers are chasing fake customers --- and they don't have to give you any detailed financial filings on them.

UK is full of box breakers, cashback deals (aka pyramid scheme) and VAT carousel frauds. It's a dirty game in Europe and I hope that American companies don't that game at all.

 

[edesignuk]

It's not just currency issues.

It's more about the lack of transparency of many financial markets around the world. Overseas carrier play the handset subsidies better because they don't have to file detailed SEC quarterly filings.

UK carriers like to do huge discounts on prepaid phones during christmas to boost their financial numbers --- guess what more than 50% of them are box broken and exported overseas. The carriers are chasing fake customers --- and they don't have to give you any detailed financial filings on them.

UK is full of box breakers, cashback deals (aka pyramid scheme) and VAT carousel frauds. It's a dirty game in Europe and I hope that American companies don't that game at all.

Still struggling to understand how any of that makes "Americans smarter". For your $150 (£75), we get the 16GB for free, 3000 minutes (as good as unlimited IMO), 500 texts (admittedly not amazing, but good enough, especially when you have e-mail), unlimited 3G data, and free extensive coverage Wi-Fi. Plus, the contract is 18 months, not 2 years.

None of this makes "Americans smarter".

If by dirty you mean competitive, you're absolutely right. For once I think the Brits have actually come out with a better deal on the table than our US counterparts, same probably goes for the rest of Europe.

 

[nomad01]

UK is full of box breakers, cashback deals (aka pyramid scheme) and VAT carousel frauds. It's a dirty game in Europe and I hope that American companies don't that game at all.

Pyramid schemes!?!

 

[pitchfork]

Stop fretting

There WILL be a crack, there will ALWAYS be. Last year when the iPhone was released, there were fears that anyone not on AT&T wouldn't be able to use it. Those skeptics were wrong. As long as there are Tech/Geeks, there will always be solutions.
And some people don't want to give AT&T business for political reasons. That's OK, if more people would just say "NO" to bad business practices, we wouldn't have insane Real Estate, fuel and Automobile prices....just say No.
If you don't have an iPhone yet. Now you can buy one very cheaply. If you already have one? keep it. the new one isn't that much better. It is better, but by a small margin. 3G? ehhhh..., double battery life? that's nice. GPS?...it's a "kind of" GPS. It isn't working off of a GPS satellite. It's feeding off of cell towers and Wifi reception (a downloadable function with a jailbroken iphone)
Where's the video recording? or video chatting capabilities?....It's basically the same phone.
Relax people....relax.

 

[edesignuk]

GPS?...it's a "kind of" GPS. It isn't working off of a GPS satellite. It's feeding off of cell towers and Wifi reception (a downloadable function with a jailbroken iphone)

Beep. Wrong.

3G iPhone has A-GPS. Assisted Global Positioning System. It uses Satellites, cell towers, and Wi-Fi to increase accuracy and decrease the time it takes to locate your position.


Does anyone anywhere read and understand anything before making nonsense statements???