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the $20 for the tethering is because a person tethering uses more of their 2 gig cap than someone is not tethering.

AT&T doesn't base their pricing on every person using 2 gigs every month. If they did that, then everyone would pay $80 a month for 2 gigs or something crazy.

Isn't that kind of a dumb statement? If I want to use what I pay for, then I need to pay more. I thought if I pay for 2G then I should get 2G.

If the two tether people use 1.6G ... so what? They paid for it.

I vote for the people who want to use the more data to pay for it. In this case that means those people who choose the tethering package. So actually it is for more data, because you are using more data. But they paid for the data!
 
Isn't that kind of a dumb statement? If I want to use what I pay for, then I need to pay more. I thought if I pay for 2G then I should get 2G.

If the two tether people use 1.6G ... so what? They paid for it.

I vote for the people who want to use the more data to pay for it. In this case that means those people who choose the tethering package. So actually it is for more data, because you are using more data. But they paid for the data!

^ This.

I happen to agree with pretty much everything marksman has said in this thread, but I don't understand the tethering logic at all. You're paying for 2GB one way or another for $25 whether you use it all or not. 2GB with the possibility of coming closer to the cap for $45 doesn't make any sense.

While I see the point that is being made, it's a shady way for AT&T to handle it. $15, $25, $200 - one way or another it's the same amount of data and if it's prepaid then it should be able to be used how we want by our own choice. Someone that pays $25 for 2GB vs someone that pays $45 with 2GB to spread across multiple devices. Someone that chooses to distrbute the same amount of prepaid data shouldn't be punished or asked to pay more to do so.

I think the most I have ever used is about 2.5GB of data. And thats tethering with a JB iPhone to my iPad to watch Netflix and use Air Video. It really doesnt take that much to get the numbers up that high if you spend a day doing this. That doesnt happen often to be quite honest however. Generally when I tether it may be during downtime at work to browse the internet off our network or at my parents house (they still have dial-up) to look a few things up for them or waste time.

I am grandfathered in on my iPhone (for now at least) so none of this really bothers me directly. It does make me wonder whether or not I would like to upgrde to the new iPhone when it comes out and sign a new 2 year or hold off until my contract expires next year with more options available to me.
 
^ This.

I happen to agree with pretty much everything marksman has said in this thread, but I don't understand the tethering logic at all. You're paying for 2GB one way or another for $25 whether you use it all or not. 2GB with the possibility of coming closer to the cap for $45 doesn't make any sense.

I don't agree with him at all with the 'getting closer to the cap' bit.

Most people throw out a good portion of the 7-11 big gulps. Let's make the cup half the size, charge 10 cents less and if you want to refill to get to the 32 ounces, then you can come back .... but you have to pay extra. But it's ok, because the people that would throw part of it away are getting it for 10 cents less. Just doesn't makes sense in my head. Maybe I'm missing something. I thought when people started checking the monthly totals, they would get angry about not getting near the total monthly allotment and would yell at ATT for an 'in between' plan. Or that ATT lists what the average was for users and made a plan just under and one much larger.

But no real complaints about that.
 
I don't agree with him at all with the 'getting closer to the cap' bit.

Most people throw out a good portion of the 7-11 big gulps. Let's make the cup half the size, charge 10 cents less and if you want to refill to get to the 32 ounces, then you can come back .... but you have to pay extra. But it's ok, because the people that would throw part of it away are getting it for 10 cents less. Just doesn't makes sense in my head. Maybe I'm missing something. I thought when people started checking the monthly totals, they would get angry about not getting near the total monthly allotment and would yell at ATT for an 'in between' plan. Or that ATT lists what the average was for users and made a plan just under and one much larger.

But no real complaints about that.

To me the charge for tethering is more like paying for a 24oz drink with no free refills but being told you can only sip it. If you want to drink it using a straw you have to pay extra.
 
Looks through my AT&T account, nervously, under Data Usage Trends:

Nov 09: 4.5
Dec 09: 3.9
Jan 10: 3.4
Feb 10: 4
Mar 10: 4.9
Apr 10: 4.7
May 10: 6.8

That's GB folks. NOT MB. I used the 3GS through April and spilt time on the N1.
 
it's not that you want to use a straw, you want to share it with a friend.

Haven't you seen restaurants that charge for splitting plates? It's the same amount of food, but they are charging extra b/c of how you're consuming it.
 
it's not that you want to use a straw, you want to share it with a friend.

Haven't you seen restaurants that charge for splitting plates? It's the same amount of food, but they are charging extra b/c of how you're consuming it.

Sorry.. I can't follow this logic. This is a perfect example of a how a family plan works.. and they already charge you for the extra plate (add a line for $9.99)

AT&T is basically charging you extra because you want to take your leftover food home and eat it on one your "non restaurant" plates.
 
I think AT&T Is Finally Getting It

I must say that I think AT&T is finally getting a handle on iPhone customers, it's network and pricing. Maybe it's because of greater competition, maybe pressure from Apple and customers or maybe it's experience. Probably all three, at least I hope...

Everything comes at a price. AT&T and other carriers can't really offer you unlimited bandwidth otherwise they would go bankrupt. The idea at one point when devices couldn't do much more then send emails was that data usage wasn't a concern. Now with streaming, video etc it is. You see that when you offer unlimited now a days people use it and AT&T's network suffers thus other users suffer. The pay per usage model is the way all carriers, cable and telco companies are going to start charging. You see comcast putting caps on service, all wireless carriers have etc. I agree with this method. Bandwidth costs a lot of money and as much as people want to think their is unlimited capacity there isn't. There is only so much fiber right now and when it comes to mobile carriers theirs the wireless towers that add additional cost to transmit that signal and the licensing for the spectrum . It's expensive.

AT&T is providing you a way to monitor your data usage which I think is great. I know you could have done this within the settings of a iphone but unless you remember to reset it which I always did you really don't have a clue what your true usage is.

Comcast also allows for you to see your usage details online. I think more providers will do the same as you need to give users the ability to see their usage and monitor it in order to start capping it.

Anyway I know i'm rambling but I have noticed fewer dropped calls in Philly, better data service and I think with them instituting the pay per usage It will benefit the casual users and for those users that hack their phones and create wifi hotspots, stream tv to their iphone all day etc they will need to change their habits or pay.
 
the $20 for the tethering is because a person tethering uses more of their 2 gig cap than someone is not tethering.

AT&T doesn't base their pricing on every person using 2 gigs every month. If they did that, then everyone would pay $80 a month for 2 gigs or something crazy ...

Then AT&T needs to explicitly spell out what they are selling.

If I'm paying for 2gb/month, I'm going to use 2gb a month without repercussion because that's what I'm paying for. If this was such a great deal for the consumer in exchange for doing away with the unlimited plan, they'd offer either a real tiered pricing plan (per 1gb or 0.5gb) or offer data rollover. Instead there's mainly one option for probably 90% of their customers: 2gb/month for $25. According to AT&T, that means that probably 90% of their customer base will continue paying for more data capacity than they use PLUS will likely be paying more per mb in the future when new abilities on the phones come online.

I've read a lot of your posts, and you seem very much like an apologist for AT&T.
 
I thought when people started checking the monthly totals, they would get angry about not getting near the total monthly allotment and would yell at ATT for an 'in between' plan. Or that ATT lists what the average was for users and made a plan just under and one much larger.

But no real complaints about that.

This, I think, is the real negative. AT&T specifically mentioned what percentage of their users were under 2gb, but didn't mention which percentage was over 200mb (which seems ridiculously considering I mostly use my phone for just email and web browsing when I'm in the field and I usually hit 300-500mb/month). There is only one tier in their pricing plan and you can either pay for bandwidth in either 200mb (13mb/$) or 2gb chunks(80mb/$). Do the math, and the 2gb plan is by far the most economical, but if 98% of the customer base is under 2gb, then they are getting raped on cost while people that use the most bandwidth are getting a discount.

Seems backwards to me and just another way to nail people on overages and get them to pay for more than they need.
 
Looks through my AT&T account, nervously, under Data Usage Trends:

Nov 09: 4.5
Dec 09: 3.9
Jan 10: 3.4
Feb 10: 4
Mar 10: 4.9
Apr 10: 4.7
May 10: 6.8

That's GB folks. NOT MB. I used the 3GS through April and spilt time on the N1.

May I ask what exactly you do on your phone to use that much data and how often do you have to charge you phone?
 
Isn't that kind of a dumb statement? If I want to use what I pay for, then I need to pay more. I thought if I pay for 2G then I should get 2G.

If the two tether people use 1.6G ... so what? They paid for it.

I vote for the people who want to use the more data to pay for it. In this case that means those people who choose the tethering package. So actually it is for more data, because you are using more data. But they paid for the data!
Exactly! That's what I've been trying to explain to people in several other threads. But they just don't get it. Neither do AT&T and other carriers' chimps.






It's like saying: "Dear Mr. X, thank you for purchasing 2GB of data that you may use on your iPhone. However, if you use that same data on a Dell laptop, there is an extra $20 charge. If you use it on a Sony Vaio laptop, there is a $34 charge. If you use it on a MacBook Pro, there is a $55 charge. If you use it on a Mac Pro 3.8GHz, there is a $75 charge. However, if you just stick to using data on your iPhone, there is no extra charge."

Mr X: "Wait, what's that extra charge all about?"

AT&T chimp: "Well, Mr. X, you have to understand that bytes that go through your iPhone are different from bytes that go through, say, a MacBook Pro. The ones going through a MacBook Pro are more precious, different in speed, heavier in weight, shinier under a sunlight, and gold-plated after all."

Mr. X: "Ah, I see. So it makes a difference HOW I use it."

AT&T chimp: "Exactly!"
 
May I ask what exactly you do on your phone to use that much data and how often do you have to charge you phone?

He either watches youtube videos nearly continuously during his waking hours or his phone is jailbroken and he is tethering. Either way I fail to see why I should pay for it :)
 
Pricing Should be as follows (since they are getting rid of the unlimited):

$5/month --- 200 mb
$10/month --- 500 mb
$20/month --- 2 gb
$30/month --- 5 gb

I still say their current pricing option does nothing but save the majority of customers $5 a month. I'd be willing to bet that most customers are somewhere between 300mb to 600mb a month requiring them to purchase the 2gb plan and they will be in the same boat they are in now. Having a plan in which the majority of the allotted usage goes unused...

Instead of "helping" the customer with these new wireless plans, invest more in the wireless network to make it capable of handling the amount of data transferred.
 
Protip: People, who will get the 200MB/15USD packages, are subsidizing the 2GB/25USD packages. You get ~10% for 60% of the price. Sounds like a deal, huh? :D
 
Protip: People, who will get the 200MB/15USD packages, are subsidizing the 2GB/25USD packages. You get ~10% for 60% of the price. Sounds like a deal, huh? :D

It just puts reemphases on my point above... They are making it so it's a "better buy" for the 2gb plan and therefore all it will really save customers is $5 and put a cap on usage... It's all crap.

My contract has been up with AT&T since January and I've been waiting for the new iphone... Now I'll be waiting to renew until ATT fixes this horrid data option plan. If they don't then I'll be waiting for an iphone even longer for it to get on another provider's network...
 
Isn't that kind of a dumb statement? If I want to use what I pay for, then I need to pay more. I thought if I pay for 2G then I should get 2G.

If the two tether people use 1.6G ... so what? They paid for it.

I vote for the people who want to use the more data to pay for it. In this case that means those people who choose the tethering package. So actually it is for more data, because you are using more data. But they paid for the data!

No because if everyone used more the price for everyone would be higher.

It is based on consumer usage. They know people who tether will use more data.

If people use more data, then AT&T will charge more for data. If you have a 2 gig plan and use 2 gigs, bully for you. But that is not what their pricing is based on. The average customer does not use 2 gigs.

So irregardless of if you used 2 gigs or not, if something causes the average usage to increase by as much as 50% prices have to go up. Be it for everyone, which is how they have done it up until now, or just for those with the increased usage.

I thought I explained the tethering thing pretty clearly on the last page. How much an individual uses is irrelevant. How much everyone uses on average is all that matters.

Can you guys at least understand that if the average data consumption increases for all users by 50% that AT&T might be within their rights to raise the cost of data usage?

So let me put it flat out this way:

Would you prefer everyone pay $38 a month for 2gigs of data with free tethering,

OR

Would you prefer that everyone pays $25 for 2 gigs of data, and those who want to tether pay $45 a month.

Those are you two options. There is not an option where everyone pays $25 a month for 2 gigs of data and has free tethering. That option does not exist. It is not possible. AT&T would never offer it.

So given those two choices which one do you prefer?
 
Exactly! That's what I've been trying to explain to people in several other threads. But they just don't get it. Neither do AT&T and other carriers' chimps.






It's like saying: "Dear Mr. X, thank you for purchasing 2GB of data that you may use on your iPhone. However, if you use that same data on a Dell laptop, there is an extra $20 charge. If you use it on a Sony Vaio laptop, there is a $34 charge. If you use it on a MacBook Pro, there is a $55 charge. If you use it on a Mac Pro 3.8GHz, there is a $75 charge. However, if you just stick to using data on your iPhone, there is no extra charge."


What if you had a sony laptop and found out the guy who has a macbook pro is using 10x the data you are for the same $40 price tag. How would you feel about that?

Especially when you could be paying $20 and he could be paying $55 for his actual usage.

That is what is going on here. People who use a lot more than everyone else obviously have a vested interest in the shared pricing model where all the other users subsidize them. You can tell from these threads people like you will defend this practice at seemingly any cost.

I don't recall a single person who used large amounts of bandwidth ever saying, "You know what, I use a lot of bandwidth, and I should pay for what I use."

I know that most of the people saying things like what you have said don't understand, fundamentally how and why a business like AT&T sets their pricing. I do though.

Can you tell me that you believe people who use tethering will use more data than they do without, less data than they do without it, or the same data they do without it?

Which of those three is true?

So when we all know the answer is more, than we know the average usage goes up, which means the cost goes up for AT&T which means to make the same amount of money they must charge more money. As I have said until I am blue in the face, they can either charge everyone more or they can charge the person who is using bandwidth more.

If you want AT&T can change the plan and charge $30 for tethering and include 1 gig of data transfer in it, and charge $10 per 1 gig overage after that. Is your problem they are tying the two together out of convience? They certainly could separate them if you wanted, if that would make it easier on you.

So now tethering is not an add on but instead is its own plan with its own base data rate.

The bottom line is how much the data the average user uses, impacts what the price is for the consumer. That one person or another person uses 1.6 gigs or 1 gig or 200 megs is wholly irrelevant. People who tether will use more data which means that because they are using tethering the data costs for AT&T will go up.

And people please stop with the wholly inapplicable analogies. I would prefer you spend that time trying to wrap your mind around how companies that charge for data access, like AT&T set their pricing. That would be more useful than making a bunch of horrible and inapplicable restaurant analogies, because it is not like any of those things.

Since you love all these analogies though, here is what it is like...

When you go to an all you eat buffet, you can get a clear glass and get water for free. If you want a soda you have to pay EXTRA for it. Now the buffet could just raise the price of its buffet for everyone by .75 cents and give away free soda. Sure they could do that... but some people don't want soda, and don't want to pay for everyone who does want soda. So the soda is like tethering, those who want to drink soda at an all you can eat buffet have to pay for it. Those who do not want it, are not forced to pay for others soda.

Then AT&T needs to explicitly spell out what they are selling.

If I'm paying for 2gb/month, I'm going to use 2gb a month without repercussion because that's what I'm paying for.

That is what you get. What is the problem? You pay for 2 gigs you get 2 gigs.

If you want to use tethering, it costs more.

If this was such a great deal for the consumer in exchange for doing away with the unlimited plan, they'd offer either a real tiered pricing plan (per 1gb or 0.5gb) or offer data rollover. Instead there's mainly one option for probably 90% of their customers: 2gb/month for $25. According to AT&T, that means that probably 90% of their customer base will continue paying for more data capacity than they use PLUS will likely be paying more per mb in the future when new abilities on the phones come online.

I've read a lot of your posts, and you seem very much like an apologist for AT&T.

Actually a good portion of the user base will be able to use the lowest tier pricing, and lots of new customers as well. So you are way off on the 90% in the second tier part. A good portion of customers will be able to use the $15 a month plan, which is significant savings. It is a 50% reduction in fact. By AT&T's own numbers 65% of their data customers use less than 200 megs in a month. That is massive.

Yes I am an apologist for AT&T because people are knee-jerk over-reacting based on ignorance and apparently confusion.

Most AT&T customers are saving significant money because of these changes. The problem is it is at the cost of those who have been saving money on their backs for all these years.

So obviously those here who are going to have to pay for their usage now are upset and want to remain the status quo. Why would they not, they were getting other people to pay for them to have cheaper data costs.

Now the tables have turned, and the costs have been brought in line closer to the point that those that use more data have to pay for it. Woes me yeah I am a big apologist, or perhaps a realist, with a pretty significant and expansive business background who understands how and why this was done and what went into setting the price.

I will ask you what I said above.. Do you choose for everyone to pay $38 a month for 2 gigs and free tethering, or do you choose for how it is going to be with $25 for 2 gigs and tethering $20 extra?
 
People who tether will use more data which means that because they are using tethering the data costs for AT&T will go up.

The additional fee would only be valid for an "unlimited" plan, but not for a plan with a fixed cap. If I blow the 2GB with the phone or with a laptop is totally irrelevant.

True, that could and probably will ruin the mixed calculation for the provider, but blaming that on the people who are using the plans they are paying for is short-sighted. This way your are defending the carrier's intention to keep the status quo regarding network-performance, and get as much revenue and as few costs as possible out of it .
 
No because if everyone used more the price for everyone would be higher.

It is based on consumer usage. They know people who tether will use more data.

If people use more data, then AT&T will charge more for data. If you have a 2 gig plan and use 2 gigs, bully for you. But that is not what their pricing is based on. The average customer does not use 2 gigs.

So instead paying for the unlimited plan where the average customer doesn't use 2gb, they're giving people an "option" to continue to pay for more than they need, but if they do actually use what they pay for, AT&T will have to charge more. And, to you, this is sound customer service?

To me it's a crappy way to gouge trapped customers by corporations who have no real competition. Way to go magical hand of the free market!!

I love my iPhone, but I don't see myself renewing anytime soon. Unfortunately, there isn't any meaningful competition in the telecom industry, so whatever choice I do have, isn't much of a choice at all.
 
What if you had a sony laptop and found out the guy who has a macbook pro is using 10x the data you are for the same $40 price tag. How would you feel about that?

Especially when you could be paying $20 and he could be paying $55 for his actual usage.

That is what is going on here. People who use a lot more than everyone else obviously have a vested interest in the shared pricing model where all the other users subsidize them. You can tell from these threads people like you will defend this practice at seemingly any cost.

I don't recall a single person who used large amounts of bandwidth ever saying, "You know what, I use a lot of bandwidth, and I should pay for what I use."

I know that most of the people saying things like what you have said don't understand, fundamentally how and why a business like AT&T sets their pricing. I do though.

Can you tell me that you believe people who use tethering will use more data than they do without, less data than they do without it, or the same data they do without it?

Which of those three is true?

So when we all know the answer is more, than we know the average usage goes up, which means the cost goes up for AT&T which means to make the same amount of money they must charge more money. As I have said until I am blue in the face, they can either charge everyone more or they can charge the person who is using bandwidth more.

If you want AT&T can change the plan and charge $30 for tethering and include 1 gig of data transfer in it, and charge $10 per 1 gig overage after that. Is your problem they are tying the two together out of convience? They certainly could separate them if you wanted, if that would make it easier on you.

So now tethering is not an add on but instead is its own plan with its own base data rate.

The bottom line is how much the data the average user uses, impacts what the price is for the consumer. That one person or another person uses 1.6 gigs or 1 gig or 200 megs is wholly irrelevant. People who tether will use more data which means that because they are using tethering the data costs for AT&T will go up.

And people please stop with the wholly inapplicable analogies. I would prefer you spend that time trying to wrap your mind around how companies that charge for data access, like AT&T set their pricing. That would be more useful than making a bunch of horrible and inapplicable restaurant analogies, because it is not like any of those things.

Since you love all these analogies though, here is what it is like...

When you go to an all you eat buffet, you can get a clear glass and get water for free. If you want a soda you have to pay EXTRA for it. Now the buffet could just raise the price of its buffet for everyone by .75 cents and give away free soda. Sure they could do that... but some people don't want soda, and don't want to pay for everyone who does want soda. So the soda is like tethering, those who want to drink soda at an all you can eat buffet have to pay for it. Those who do not want it, are not forced to pay for others soda.



That is what you get. What is the problem? You pay for 2 gigs you get 2 gigs.

If you want to use tethering, it costs more.



Actually a good portion of the user base will be able to use the lowest tier pricing, and lots of new customers as well. So you are way off on the 90% in the second tier part. A good portion of customers will be able to use the $15 a month plan, which is significant savings. It is a 50% reduction in fact. By AT&T's own numbers 65% of their data customers use less than 200 megs in a month. That is massive.

Yes I am an apologist for AT&T because people are knee-jerk over-reacting based on ignorance and apparently confusion.

Most AT&T customers are saving significant money because of these changes. The problem is it is at the cost of those who have been saving money on their backs for all these years.

So obviously those here who are going to have to pay for their usage now are upset and want to remain the status quo. Why would they not, they were getting other people to pay for them to have cheaper data costs.

Now the tables have turned, and the costs have been brought in line closer to the point that those that use more data have to pay for it. Woes me yeah I am a big apologist, or perhaps a realist, with a pretty significant and expansive business background who understands how and why this was done and what went into setting the price.

I will ask you what I said above.. Do you choose for everyone to pay $38 a month for 2 gigs and free tethering, or do you choose for how it is going to be with $25 for 2 gigs and tethering $20 extra?
I wouldn't feel bad as long as the person on MacBook Pro would be paying extra for going over 2GB cap (which he essentially will according to AT&T terms). I really don't care how fast he would use it all up. I really wanna understand why the extra charge for tethering. Seriously. But I just don't get it.
 
Where as AT&T stated the percentage of their user base will benefit from the 200mb cap?

{edited to add that I see from the press release, however, that's for all smart phone users, and not iPhone users. iPhones use more bandwidth than other smart phones}

And no where in any of my posts have I defended bandwidth hogs. So despite your "expansive business background", you fail pretty basic reading comprehension ... and come across like a d!ck.

The discounted bandwidth is at the 2gb cap, when less than 98% of the users use that much. So people that use less than 2gb are still subsidizing the discounted bandwidth at the higher end, they're just now getting a $5/month discount for the privilege and accepting a cap. My problem with the whole thing is that the tiered pricing isn't tiered, and there really isn't a choice in the matter. 200mb at $15 is pretty steep, basically just 13mb for a $1 (or, hypothetically, a $.99 song in iTunes and ~$.50 to download), and my guess is that AT&T, which knows exactly how much data their smartphone customers download per month on average, has placed the 200mb cap precisely where it needs to be to push the majority of their customer base to the only other option: 2gb/$25. Just like their text messaging plan "options".

The less important point to me, but still relevant, is that, essentially, I'm being offered $60/year in exchange for a cap/2gb per $25 purchase plan on my future data usage when I don't know what my future data usage will be (but my guess is that AT&T certainly does or has a pretty good idea thanks to some inside info from Apple). That bothers me because I'm at a disadvantage since I don't have the same information that the other party has.
 
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