AT&T Announces iPhone Tethering and New Smartphone Data Plans

[marksman]

I wouldn't feel bad as long as the person on MacBook Pro would be paying extra for going over 2GB cap (which he essentially will according to AT&T terms). I really don't care how fast he would use it all up. I really wanna understand why the extra charge for tethering. Seriously. But I just don't get it.

So would you have preferred that AT&T went instead to a $38 month 2 gig plan for everyone that included tethering?

You do admit that people who tether would use more data than those who do not correct?

 

[marksman]

Where as AT&T stated the percentage of their user base will benefit from the 200mb cap?

In their press release...

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=17991&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=30854&mapcode=financial|Wireless

The discounted bandwidth is at the 2gb cap, when less than 98% of the users use that much. So people that use less than 2gb are still subsidizing the discounted bandwidth at the higher end, they're just now getting a $5/month discount for the privilege and accepting a cap. My problem with the whole thing is that the tiered pricing isn't tiered, and there really isn't a choice in the matter. 200mb at $15 is pretty steep,

Yet 65% of their data customers use less than that a month. You do realize that those 65% had been paying $30 a month for using the same amount of data before. So regardless of what you think the cost of 200 megs is, the reality is 65% of the people were paying $30 for it before, to help subsidize those using more bandwidth. Their bill got cut in half. How is that a bad thing.

Just because you can't comprehend or understand how people can only use that much data, can you at least accept that those people were previously paying twice as much for the same amount of data?

The less important point to me, but still relevant, is that, essentially, I'm being offered $60/year in exchange for a cap/2gb per $25 purchase plan on my future data usage when I don't know what my future data usage will be (but my guess is that AT&T certainly does or has a pretty good idea thanks to some inside info from Apple). That bothers me because I'm at a disadvantage since I don't have the same information that the other party has.

You also don't know what future pricing will be or what will change. People sitting here worried about the future, can hold on to their unlimited plan if they want. The reality is the unlimited plan is not going to last forver at $30 a month, so it is only a matter of time be it months or years before it goes away.

You can make your decision for whatever reason you want, but being upset at at&t for cutting the data bill of over half their customers in half, does not seem rational to me.

 

[DotCom2]

So what happens if say, I go for the 200MB rate and I start getting close to using it up for that month? I get a free text from ATT telling me so, right? Then I get even lower and I get another text warning me about it. And say I still don't do anything about it and I finally run out of data on my plan. Does my iPhone just stop working on 3G? Does is automatically sign me up for another chunk of data? Do I start to get overage fees and if so how much?
None of this has been addressed as far as I have been able to find out.
Anybody know?

 

[alent1234]

I wouldn't feel bad as long as the person on MacBook Pro would be paying extra for going over 2GB cap (which he essentially will according to AT&T terms). I really don't care how fast he would use it all up. I really wanna understand why the extra charge for tethering. Seriously. But I just don't get it.

it's probably a business feature and everyone loves to nickel and dime business users

 

[sniffies]

So would you have preferred that AT&T went instead to a $38 month 2 gig plan for everyone that included tethering?

You do admit that people who tether would use more data than those who do not correct?

What I admit is that people who tether do use data (2GB in this case) much faster. But then the same people would pay again for another 2GB (or pay extra for overage). They do pay though. So why should I care how fast they go?

 

[azentropy]

So would you have preferred that AT&T went instead to a $38 month 2 gig plan for everyone that included tethering?

You do admit that people who tether would use more data than those who do not correct?

Why are you trying to make it seem like AT&T only had just those options? There are many other pricing models that AT&T could and should have offered.

In general people who tether use more, but can you agree that NOT EVERYONE WHO TETHERS USES MORE THAN EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T?

Say Person A pays $25 but doesn't tether uses 1.8gb in a month. Person B tethers and pays $25 + $20 a month uses 800mb. Is it really fair that Person B has to pay $15 more for using 1gb less?

That is why a pricing model based on how much you actual use rather than how you use it would be the fairest to every customer. Bits are bits.

 

[Krio]

If anyone would read the legal mumbo on their 2gb plan you would find that you are paying for 2gb for use only on whatever smart phone you have; NOT for a 2gb bucket of data period. The tethering fee is so that you have the RIGHT to use that 2gb on any other device. Not to mention they have to give you a monetary reason not to dump your data card @ $60 for 5gb since 5gb on the new plan only costs $55.

So what happens if say, I go for the 200MB rate and I start getting close to using it up for that month? I get a free text from ATT telling me so, right? Then I get even lower and I get another text warning me about it. And say I still don't do anything about it and I finally run out of data on my plan. Does my iPhone just stop working on 3G? Does is automatically sign me up for another chunk of data? Do I start to get overage fees and if so how much?
None of this has been addressed as far as I have been able to find out.
Anybody know?

You can go online to your account and change your plan for that month to the $25 2gb plan. As long as you do this before your billing cycle ends you will just be charged $25 for all the data you used that month. If you don't go online and change your monthly plan then you are charged another $15 for every 200mb you go over your original 200. Basically, if you aren't pro active when you barely go over 200 mb it costs you $5 more. If you go WAY over 200 without bumping your plan that month you could be in a world of hurt.

 

[GaresTaylan]

No because if everyone used more the price for everyone would be higher.

It is based on consumer usage. They know people who tether will use more data.

If people use more data, then AT&T will charge more for data. If you have a 2 gig plan and use 2 gigs, bully for you. But that is not what their pricing is based on. The average customer does not use 2 gigs.

So irregardless of if you used 2 gigs or not, if something causes the average usage to increase by as much as 50% prices have to go up. Be it for everyone, which is how they have done it up until now, or just for those with the increased usage.

I thought I explained the tethering thing pretty clearly on the last page. How much an individual uses is irrelevant. How much everyone uses on average is all that matters.

Can you guys at least understand that if the average data consumption increases for all users by 50% that AT&T might be within their rights to raise the cost of data usage?

So let me put it flat out this way:

Would you prefer everyone pay $38 a month for 2gigs of data with free tethering,

OR

Would you prefer that everyone pays $25 for 2 gigs of data, and those who want to tether pay $45 a month.

Those are you two options. There is not an option where everyone pays $25 a month for 2 gigs of data and has free tethering. That option does not exist. It is not possible. AT&T would never offer it.

So given those two choices which one do you prefer?

Call me ignorant or stupid. I still don't understand the logic behind +$20 for tethering no matter how much I read this.

 

[marksman]

Call me ignorant or stupid. I still don't understand the logic behind +$20 for tethering no matter how much I read this.

Then answer a simple question:

What plan would you prefer AT&T to offer?

1) 2 gigs of data for $38 a month (tethering included)

2) 2 gigs of data for $25 a month. (tethering $20 extra)

 

[Betelgeuse]

Some of the people who are defending AT&T on this thread are making the case that AT&T's network can't really support 2 GB/month if everyone was actually using that and perhaps, more to the point, that AT&T can't reasonably supply 2GB/month to everyone for $25. Maybe that's true; maybe it's not. But let's just assume it is.

If that's true, I think what most of us want is for AT&T to stop ***** around with these limits that aren't really limits. Charge us a fair price and be done with it. I don't begrudge them a profit, but at least be transparent about what you're charging and why you're charging it. It's totally ridiculous for them to put these limits in place and then turn around and say, "Well, we didn't actually expect you use the data bandwidth that we told you were were selling you." OK. Fine. Well, then tell us what the actual limits are.

This tethering BS is just a way of letting them advertise one limit and effectively enforce another since it's basically impossible to use up 2GB/month on just your phone.

 

[GaresTaylan]

Then answer a simple question:

What plan would you prefer AT&T to offer?

1) 2 gigs of data for $38 a month (tethering included)

2) 2 gigs of data for $25 a month. (tethering $20 extra)

3) 2GB of data + tethering for $25 a month???

I could maybe understand +$5 a month. +$20 is insane.

If this is the way they look at this, then they need to come right out and say it. "It's an extra $20 a month because we feel you will use more of your 2GB pre-paid data than the normal person's very same 2GB pre-paid data that doesn't tether. Thanks for being a loyal customer."

Honestly, not trying to be difficult at all. I legitimately dont understand. Why does it have to be so cut and dry like the options above are the only ones AT&T had to offer?

 

[SAPPete]

Then answer a simple question:

What plan would you prefer AT&T to offer?

1) 2 gigs of data for $38 a month (tethering included)

2) 2 gigs of data for $25 a month. (tethering $20 extra)

3) 2 gigs of data for $25 a month (including tethering)

4) unlimited data for $30 a month (including tethering)

I'd sign up for 2 more years for option 4 and a new iPhone. $20 extra for tethering with no extra data allowance is a rip-off, you can tell your managers at AT$T that. Anything else, and I hang on to my old iPhone and bask in the glory of no ETFs while I look for a new provider.

Seeing what they pulled with the iPad plan, and that the TOS has already an escape clause built in where they can pull your unlimited plan at their discretion if you go over 5GB, I don't trust my grandfathered plan to last for the two years I'll have to sign for. Nothing is stopping them from kicking heavy data users off the unlimited plan once they signed for two more years to get a new iPhone.

Guess what, I only use 300 or so MB a month. Point is, I really don't know what I'll use a year from now, and I happily pay $30 / month for not having to worry about it.

 

[jcmeyer5]

the $20 for the tethering is because a person tethering uses more of their 2 gig cap than someone is not tethering.

AT&T doesn't base their pricing on every person using 2 gigs every month. If they did that, then everyone would pay $80 a month for 2 gigs or something crazy.

So... that "2GB" plan is really only inteded to be what... a 500MB plan? How much sense does that make? That is like putting extra Spam in the can, and telling you that you really are only supposed to eat half of it. I paid for the Spam. If I want to eat it all, regardless of whether I use a fork, spoon, or my fingers, it should not have a penalty.

They base their pricing on the average usage on the network. So they know with the $25 2 gig package, the average user is using say 500 mb a month. Now the same person using tethering, say, uses 1.6 gigs a month. Those people tethering bring up the average significantly, thus requiring AT&T to either charge everyone more to make the same amount of money, or to charge the people who will actually be using more data to pay the money.

AT&T needs to price their plans in such a way that they are not harmed by people using the service. You cant tell someone that they bought 2GB, and in the next breath tell them that, if they use more than the average, you will raise the rates on them. What sense does that make?

I vote for the people who want to use the more data to pay for it. In this case that means those people who choose the tethering package. So actually it is for more data, because you are using more data.

I follow you, but I am not sure how you get there. So what if I wanted to use all that data strictly on my iPhone? Should I also pay more? Why do you care what device uses the data? If I choose to stream raunchy dwarf porn 24/7 because I have (according to AT&T) PAID for the bandwidth, it really shouldnt matter to you if it is on an iPhone, iPad, or a Commodore 64. If the intention is to have customers only use 500MB, then that is the plan they should sell, and let the market decide.

Traditionally they might have just put it as a one stop all fee and spread it out, but AT&T, rightfully, has realized that the subsidy model of the extreme users makes it much harder for them to bring in customers on the low end. So the answer is to make the people who use the most data pay the most.

I actually agree. I would be for a metered system. Give a 200MB for $15 base, and for every GB (or pick your UOM), you pay a usage rate. That way the people who USE the data (regardless of the device using it), PAY for it. If I want to tether and use 500MB, I shouldnt be penalized for the assumption that tethering = using the entire cap.

Back to my numbers... Let us say you have 10 customers each using 500 megs a month. That gives you an average of 500 megs per customer.

Now let us say 2 customers start tethering. They each use on average 1.6 gigs a month. The new average for those same 10 customers is now 720 megs a month.

So with those two customers using tethering the average data usage per customer went up almost 50%.

And nobody exceeded their purchased allotment of data that they paid for and AT&T said was available for their use, we need to realize that... okay on with the example...

AT&T has a few options here:

1) We don't like to make money and we don't care that our stockholders demand we make money. We like to give people free tethering. They can do this and make less money, lose money whatever.

Obviously not an option, this is a for-profit corporation.

2) They can increase the charge for everyone for using data by say 50% so everyone pays $37.50 a month for 2 gigs of data but gets free tethering. Although that seems a bad idea because it ends up overcharging most of your customers and making your service less affordable to most customers.

An option. It would be a more HONEST approach to this situation. The issue isnt the act of tethering... it is the faulty logic on AT&T's part that a 2GB plan should be priced assuming customers only use 10% of their available bandwidth.

3) You can charge $20 for those who wish to tether so it helps cover the cost of the bandwidth they are using when tethering.

Which essentially, by your reasoning, tells people that they REALLY dont have 2GB of usage. The whole nut revolves around what you are entitled to use under this data plan. Is it 200MB (the average that AT&T apparently uses in figuring billing rates)? Is it the 2GB that you are ACTUALLY paying for? What the hell am I buying? Let's get them to be honest for once.

From a business and customer service standpoint, number 3 is clearly the most appealing option. It allows you to make the most money, while also impacting the fewest number of customers in a negative way.

Depends on who you are as the customer... people who want to use the bandwidth they paid for (according to Apple) get penalized $20 to do so.

I would add a #4 to the mix, and that is to charge per usage. So if $25 represents 2GB of usage, and $15 represents 200MB of usage (talk about getting screwed... get 90% less, and pay per unit 500% more), then the inbetween (the 1.8GB that $10 buys you) must cost $0.0055 per MB. So essentially, the network access fee (I named it, but let's call it 0MB usage) for data is $15, and you pay $5 per GB used (I rounded to make it more "plan like"). While I think that scale is a bit high, it is at least fair in its allocation of charges. This way you impact only those who are using the data, and at a rate at which they use the data, regardless of the device. At the same time, you collect the fixed flat fee that DOES exist just to have the infrastructure in place to use the data.

 

[jcmeyer5]

Then answer a simple question:

What plan would you prefer AT&T to offer?

1) 2 gigs of data for $38 a month (tethering included)

2) 2 gigs of data for $25 a month. (tethering $20 extra)

I think you limit the options with a selfish motive (you want people to use less data so YOUR rates stay low). You have a hard time selling to any right-minded person that a) you dont really buy 2GB of usage when you pay for a 2GB plan, and b) that an extra fee should be assessed when you actually DO use the plan to its potential, whether it be on an iPhone or another device.

When you get right down to it, your beef isnt with the tethering... it is with the people who find a way to use the data they have paid for under AT&T's terms. You dont think they should have the ability to use all that data... which is just odd considering that it is exactly what they purchased.

What is my preference? Neither of those situations is acceptable to me. I prefer a plan that has you paying a reasonable rate for data usage at the rate you use it, plus a flat fee to cover infrastructure. If it were mine to plan, I would have a $10-$15 flat fee with per MB charges of $.005 per MB (or roughly $5 per GB). A plan that scales with usage is really the only equitable way to do it, and results in little to no subsidies. You dont use it, you pay less. You use it as your primary internet connection and download 50GB of midget porn... hate to see your bill at the end of the month.

Would that work for you?

 

[jcmeyer5]

Some of the people who are defending AT&T on this thread are making the case that AT&T's network can't really support 2 GB/month if everyone was actually using that and perhaps, more to the point, that AT&T can't reasonably supply 2GB/month to everyone for $25. Maybe that's true; maybe it's not. But let's just assume it is.

If that's true, I think what most of us want is for AT&T to stop ***** around with these limits that aren't really limits. Charge us a fair price and be done with it. I don't begrudge them a profit, but at least be transparent about what you're charging and why you're charging it. It's totally ridiculous for them to put these limits in place and then turn around and say, "Well, we didn't actually expect you use the data bandwidth that we told you were were selling you." OK. Fine. Well, then tell us what the actual limits are.

This tethering BS is just a way of letting them advertise one limit and effectively enforce another since it's basically impossible to use up 2GB/month on just your phone.

What he said Although I bet I COULD use 2GB usage of my phone... I did 400MB last month with casual usage. I dont claim that it would be actual USAGE, but I could keep it running long enough to burn the 2GB up. Air Video can really do damage.

 

[marksman]

Some of the people who are defending AT&T on this thread are making the case that AT&T's network can't really support 2 GB/month if everyone was actually using that and perhaps, more to the point, that AT&T can't reasonably supply 2GB/month to everyone for $25. Maybe that's true; maybe it's not. But let's just assume it is.

If that's true, I think what most of us want is for AT&T to stop ***** around with these limits that aren't really limits. Charge us a fair price and be done with it. I don't begrudge them a profit, but at least be transparent about what you're charging and why you're charging it. It's totally ridiculous for them to put these limits in place and then turn around and say, "Well, we didn't actually expect you use the data bandwidth that we told you were were selling you." OK. Fine. Well, then tell us what the actual limits are.

This tethering BS is just a way of letting them advertise one limit and effectively enforce another since it's basically impossible to use up 2GB/month on just your phone.

That is what they did before with the $30 fee for unlimited. What that meant is people who used 50 megs a month paid $30 and people who used 10 gigs a month paid $30 a month.

They know with tethering that usage is going to increase substantially, so unless they want to significantly reduce their profitability they have to raise the price for service.

So they could just follow the previous example, and spread it out to everyone, but that would still mean the price would have to up. They are not going to take a substantial increase in expenses with no revenue to offset it for no reason. They are in business to make money.

3) 2GB of data + tethering for $25 a month???

Not an option. Tethering will significantly increase the amount of data used per customer. If AT&T were a non profit charity, maybe that would make sense, but you want them to take on a very large increase of expense without raising prices. That would not be a smart business move for them as there is no market pressure that makes that necessary. So being reasonable that option was never on the table. They know costs were going to go up substantially, so the task they had was to determine how they would collect the revenue to make money and cover the new increased costs.

I could maybe understand +$5 a month. +$20 is insane.

Except the cost for tethered users is likely a lot more. Probably some multiple of normal usage. So they make it $40 a month for 2 gigs and charge $5 for tethering, would you be okay with that?

If this is the way they look at this, then they need to come right out and say it. "It's an extra $20 a month because we feel you will use more of your 2GB pre-paid data than the normal person's very same 2GB pre-paid data that doesn't tether. Thanks for being a loyal customer."

Kind of wordy and confusing no? Why not just charge $20 more for tethering so people who use the extra data just pay for it.

3) 2 gigs of data for $25 a month (including tethering)

4) unlimited data for $30 a month (including tethering)

Neither one of those are valid options. I guess you don't own your own business, but taking on significant cost increases with no additional revenue for no reason is always bad business.

Costs for them are going to go up substantially for them, so just adding it for free to existing plans was never an option for them.

I'd sign up for 2 more years for option 4 and a new iPhone. $20 extra for tethering with no extra data allowance is a rip-off, you can tell your managers at AT$T that. Anything else, and I hang on to my old iPhone and bask in the glory of no ETFs while I look for a new provider.

Oh wow great. You would sign up for option #4 and use more bandwidth than you pay for.. AT&T is going to really miss you. That is the point they won't miss you. They will replace you with 10 people who will pay significantly more for the same amount of data.

You want more for less, when you already were getting more for less to begin with... Could be considered a bit greedy no? You were already getting an awesome deal on data compared to most people, and now you want them to make the deal even better for you so you pay less per data used.

So if AT&T does that, they either take MORE money from me to support your plan, or they charge everyone more, or they charge you more, or they show you the door.

I don't care which they pick except for the first one.

Guess what, I only use 300 or so MB a month. Point is, I really don't know what I'll use a year from now, and I happily pay $30 / month for not having to worry about it.

It is irrational for people to pay $5-$15 a month more worried about what might happen a year or two from now. Nobody knows what is going to happen in that time frame. People who use 300 megs a month for the next 12 months all of sudden feel they are going to need 5 gigs a month, so they are willing to pay an extra $60 to protect that. Do it if you want, I don't care, but it is an irrational fear.

I understand it, but it doesn't make it rational.

So... that "2GB" plan is really only inteded to be what... a 500MB plan? How much sense does that make? That is like putting extra Spam in the can, and telling you that you really are only supposed to eat half of it. I paid for the Spam. If I want to eat it all, regardless of whether I use a fork, spoon, or my fingers, it should not have a penalty.

No it is not like that at all. A lot of services are priced based upon how often the average consumer users it as opposed to guaranteeing service for every user to use it at max. If AT&T guaranteed every user could use 2 gigs every month in data, they would have to charge $85 a month for service. They are able to charge significantly less because of how much data the average user uses.

AT&T needs to price their plans in such a way that they are not harmed by people using the service. You cant tell someone that they bought 2GB, and in the next breath tell them that, if they use more than the average, you will raise the rates on them. What sense does that make?

That is what they have done. If everyone uses more data, prices will go up. Why is that hard to understand?

I follow you, but I am not sure how you get there. So what if I wanted to use all that data strictly on my iPhone? Should I also pay more? Why do you care what device uses the data? If I choose to stream raunchy dwarf porn 24/7 because I have (according to AT&T) PAID for the bandwidth, it really shouldnt matter to you if it is on an iPhone, iPad, or a Commodore 64. If the intention is to have customers only use 500MB, then that is the plan they should sell, and let the market decide.

What any individual chooses to do is entirely irrelevant and has nothing to do with how they set their pricing.








And nobody exceeded their purchased allotment of data that they paid for and AT&T said was available for their use, we need to realize that... okay on with the example...



Obviously not an option, this is a for-profit corporation.

An option. It would be a more HONEST approach to this situation. The issue isnt the act of tethering... it is the faulty logic on AT&T's part that a 2GB plan should be priced assuming customers only use 10% of their available bandwidth.

It is not faulty. What experience do you have pricing such services? I have a lot of experience. It is how it is done, lots of businesses price services based on average usage. Net Flix sets their rates for different disc plans based on average usage, not on how much it would cost them to supply everyone 45 discs a month on a 3 disc plan.

Again, if AT&T charged what it would cost for guaranteed service, the price would be at least $85 a month. All internet access is handled this way, most internet pipes are priced this way, most web servers and web hosts are this way. All kinds of businesses use this to set their prices. It allows companies to provide more affordable access.

You don't want a world where you get charged for full guaranteed access for most of this stuff. Everything would multiply in price overnight.

Which essentially, by your reasoning, tells people that they REALLY dont have 2GB of usage. The whole nut revolves around what you are entitled to use under this data plan. Is it 200MB (the average that AT&T apparently uses in figuring billing rates)? Is it the 2GB that you are ACTUALLY paying for? What the hell am I buying? Let's get them to be honest for once.

Nope you do have 2 gigs of usage feel free to use it. You are paying for 2 gigs of access.

AT&T is setting their rates based on how much data the AVERAGE customer uses.

If every single customer started using their full 2 gigs every month, AT&T would raise their prices to much higher rates than $25.

Depends on who you are as the customer... people who want to use the bandwidth they paid for (according to Apple) get penalized $20 to do so.

Nope people who want to use tethering are paying more. Anyone who is tethering are going to be using more data than they would without tethering. Why should people without tethering have to pay for people who want to tether. That seems unfair.

It is real simple that the average cost per customer goes up substantially with tethering. So if the average cost goes up, AT&T is going to raise prices.

I would add a #4 to the mix, and that is to charge per usage. So if $25 represents 2GB of usage, and $15 represents 200MB of usage (talk about getting screwed... get 90% less, and pay per unit 500% more),

Yeah poor people. They use 50 megs a month and went from paying $30 a month for 50 megs, to potentially having to pay $38 a month if some of you had their way, and instead pay $15 a month, all for the same amount of data. Yeah those poor people are being screwed. Instead of getting an $8 rate increase they got a $15 rate decrease. Sounds Awesome to me to be honest.

 

[marksman]

I think you limit the options with a selfish motive (you want people to use less data so YOUR rates stay low). You have a hard time selling to any right-minded person that a) you dont really buy 2GB of usage when you pay for a 2GB plan, and b) that an extra fee should be assessed when you actually DO use the plan to its potential, whether it be on an iPhone or another device.

What? I don't use that much data why shouldn't my rates stay low. Why the heck do think I should have to pay for your data? Why can't I pay for my data and pay less and you pay for your data and pay more? How am I being selfish? What are you talking about?

I have subsidized some of you for years, and now I get a decent deal, and you are calling ME selfish? Are you serious?

When you get right down to it, your beef isnt with the tethering... it is with the people who find a way to use the data they have paid for under AT&T's terms. You dont think they should have the ability to use all that data... which is just odd considering that it is exactly what they purchased.

You are 100% wrong. I don't care what they do or if they use it all. I just want them to pay for their data, not me to pay for their data.

I like how nobody has answered my question about the two options. All this tells me is people want something for nothing. There is no rational or reasonable discourse going on here. Not a single person seems to think that even though AT&T's costs are going to significantly rise that they should be able to charge for that. That is just naive.


[/quote]What is my preference? Neither of those situations is acceptable to me. I prefer a plan that has you paying a reasonable rate for data usage at the rate you use it, plus a flat fee to cover infrastructure. If it were mine to plan, I would have a $10-$15 flat fee with per MB charges of $.005 per MB (or roughly $5 per GB). A plan that scales with usage is really the only equitable way to do it, and results in little to no subsidies. You dont use it, you pay less. You use it as your primary internet connection and download 50GB of midget porn... hate to see your bill at the end of the month.

Would that work for you?[/QUOTE]

Seems way too complex. What is wrong with the current plan? If your plan does not provide them with the comparable amount of revenue as the current plans it is a no go, in the first place. I have not done the math. I assume you have.

 

[turbineseaplane]

They know with tethering that usage is going to increase substantially, so unless they want to significantly reduce their profitability they have to raise the price for service.

I agree with this.

But $20 for tethering should be buying some extra data allotment in the process.
Simply charging $20 to "enable a preference on your iPhone" is ridiculous.

You think they should be charging $20 *just* for enabling a toggle switch on a users phone?

 

[faustfire]

Sorry Marksman, no matter how lengthy you make your arguments you are still just wrong. If AT&T sells me 2gbs of data, then that data should be mine to use, anywhere, anyhow.

If they sell a 2gb plan, they shouldn't do it under the assumption that you will only use 500mb, they should do so assuming you will use the full 2gbs.

If the customer using the full amount of data they paid for is unprofitable for AT&T then they should raise the price.

Maybe if they didn't dick us around by only giving us two options? For most people, 200mb is going to be too little and 2gb too much. They should offer multiple options inbetween, priced to allow them to profit if the full allotment of data is used. Then the tethering surcharge would not be necessary.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Sorry Marksman, no matter how lengthy you make your arguments you are still just wrong. If AT&T sells me 2gbs of data, then that data should be mine to use, anywhere, anyhow.

If they sell a 2gb plan, they shouldn't do it under the assumption that you will only use 500mb, they should do so assuming you will use the full 2gbs.

If the customer using the full amount of data they paid is unprofitable for AT&T then they should raise the price.

Maybe if they didn't dick us around by only giving us two options? For most people, 200mb is going to be too little and 2gb to much. They should offer multiple options in between, priced to allow them to profit if the full allotment of data is used. Then the tethering surcharge would not be necessary.

ABSOLUTELY.
+10 on this comment.

I'm starting to wonder if Marksman works for AT&T.

 

[jcmeyer5]

Marksman, I don't want to go point by point... It will take all night. I don't think you should pay for my data. And I am pretty sure you don't, as my highest month has 400MB. I also don't think I should pay for the data of others. I don't know where you think I am saying that. Actually, I'd rather have infinite tiers with reasonable rates... Or usage based billing. I don't understand the complication with usage based billing. Flat rate per unit. Minimum fee. Why is that beyond your comprehension? It's the algebraic equation that we all (should have) learned in 8th grade math.

You are absolutely wrong when you say you want people to pay for their usage. 2GB is the plan. How I access that 2GB really shouldn't be your concern. Your contention is that, based on averages, we are not intended or supposed to use the entire data allotment that we pay for. You can have no other reason for wanting extra charges on those who stay within their plans, yet use the data in a different way. In essence, you want people to not use all their plan data (without substantial additional penalty) in order to keep your rates low.

Data is data. Shouldn't matter how we use it, only how much we use. You can't say 2GB by iPhone is okay, but if you want to use that data pool on a laptop via tethering ( not additional 2GB), then somehow that justifies nearly doubling the data fees. It isn't intellectually consistent. The gap between 200MB and 2GB is too wide. If people paid for their usage, then nobody can complain. You can't possibly hold the "pay for the data you use" position and not support a structure where you... wait for it... PAY based on what you use. Limited tier plans don't do that. The are closer than single rate plans, but not by much.

 

[TechNutt]

Would you prefer everyone pay $38 a month for 2gigs of data with free tethering,

OR

Would you prefer that everyone pays $25 for 2 gigs of data, and those who want to tether pay $45 a month.

Those are you two options. There is not an option where everyone pays $25 a month for 2 gigs of data and has free tethering. That option does not exist. It is not possible. AT&T would never offer it.

So given those two choices which one do you prefer?

But that is the point of the argument. Tethering should be included, for everyone, no charge, provided my data is capped at a given amount. I will still argue, until I'm blue, AT$T should have had 3 tiers instead of just 200 MB and 2GB. The car and meal analogies are appropriate because I, like most people, like to get my money's worth for what I'm paying. By having 3 tiers, AT$T could accurately and truthfully say they are looking at their customers' best interests. Instead, AT$T knows the 200MB level is set too low. They know this! But, they do not give a rat damn about us. $$$ is the bottom line.

And, video chat is coming. So all this HISTORICAL USAGE crap can go out the window because Skype/chat/video all uses data and that is what will be marketed with the new iphone generation 4. Those apps will use a much more significant amount of data--that is for sure.

But the tethering fee is what kills me, and then AT$T/Apple wonder why so many owners want to jailbreak their phones. smh

I hope AT$T is prepared to have their churn numbers skyrocket! And I hope the numbers are off the charts, and AT$T reaps what they sow in the end.

 

[turbineseaplane]

...and then AT$T/Apple wonder why so many owners want to jailbreak their phones.

Exactly.

I would be happy to give them $20 more for tethering if I also got 2 more GB's of data.

If things simply stay the way they've laid them out, it's jailbreak central.

 

[marksman]

But that is the point of the argument. Tethering should be included, for everyone, no charge, provided my data is capped at a given amount. I will still argue, until I'm blue, AT$T should have had 3 tiers instead of just 200 MB and 2GB. The car and meal analogies are appropriate because I, like most people, like to get my money's worth for what I'm paying. By having 3 tiers, AT$T could accurately and truthfully say they are looking at their customers' best interests. Instead, AT$T knows the 200MB level is set too low. They know this! But, they do not give a rat damn about us. $$$ is the bottom line.

And, video chat is coming. So all this HISTORICAL USAGE crap can go out the window because Skype/chat/video all uses data and that is what will be marketed with the new iphone generation 4. Those apps will use a much more significant amount of data--that is for sure.

But the tethering fee is what kills me, and then AT$T/Apple wonder why so many owners want to jailbreak their phones. smh

I hope AT$T is prepared to have their churn numbers skyrocket! And I hope the numbers are off the charts, and AT$T reaps what they sow in the end.

I DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR YOUR TETHERING! I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO PAY $38 A MONTH TO HAVE FREE TETHERING WHEN I DO NOT WANT TETHERING AND I CAN PAY $15 A MONTH INSTEAD.

JC - I am not going to continue pounding my head against the wall trying to explain to you and others how businesses set their pricing for these kinds of services. Clearly it is not easily understood.

 

[jcmeyer5]

What? I don't use that much data why shouldn't my rates stay low. Why the heck do think I should have to pay for your data? Why can't I pay for my data and pay less and you pay for your data and pay more? How am I being selfish? What are you talking about?

I have subsidized some of you for years, and now I get a decent deal, and you are calling ME selfish? Are you serious?

No... you dont get it. I dont mind you getting lower rates. Good for you. Why should my costs for using the SAME data plan double just because I want to tether? You have 2GB to use... it sure as heck isnt my fault if you dont use it. If I manage to take advantage for the plan I PAID FOR, that shouldnt be your concern either... and neither should the method in which I used that resource that I PAID for.

You are 100% wrong. I don't care what they do or if they use it all. I just want them to pay for their data, not me to pay for their data.

Yeah... so when I pay for the 2GB plan, and I use that 2GB via tethering, then I HAVE PAID FOR MY USAGE. If you pay for a 2GB plan and inly use 500MB, how the hell does that equate to YOU paying for MY service? It doesnt. Why is that so freaking hard to get through to you? I pay MY bill... you dont. You cheer when someone gets slapped with extra fees because they used data within the capacities they paid for. Who gives a crap if it is tethered or not? 2GB is 2GB. I have the right to use it through the plan that I purchase. No additional service is being provided to me. AT&T makes its money by first denying me the ability to access that data, and then selling that access back to me. They dont need to put infrastructure in place because I use my laptop to burn through 2GB of data. In fact, they put infrastrucure in place to take that ability away, SOLELY because they want to sell it back to me. It isnt freaking rocket science.

I like how nobody has answered my question about the two options. All this tells me is people want something for nothing. There is no rational or reasonable discourse going on here. Not a single person seems to think that even though AT&T's costs are going to significantly rise that they should be able to charge for that. That is just naive.

I did answer it... you just didnt like my answer because 8th grade math is just too hard for you. I dont see either option as acceptable. If I had to choose, it would be the $38 for everyone. I would MUCH rather have a usage based charge. I use nothing, I pay nothing. I use a ton, I pay a ton. You want us to pay a ton, and then have limited ability to use what we paid for... all because you want the average to stay low so rates stay low. Dont tell me it isnt about your rates.

Seems way too complex. What is wrong with the current plan? If your plan does not provide them with the comparable amount of revenue as the current plans it is a no go, in the first place. I have not done the math. I assume you have.

{Total fee} = $0.005 x {usage in MB} + $15

There you have it. 8th grade math. Plug in minutes, and figure out your bill. For the 200MB plan, it would be $16 (most of that being the access fee). For 2GB it would be $25. Notice I havent changed the total paid at these levels. The rates actually arent unreasonable... they just arent flexible enough. $5 per GB. you use 10GB, you pay $65 ($15 flat + $50 data). That is over twice as much as the original unlimited plan, when you use the soft cap of 5GB as the "limit" for the $30 plan. Assuming you are doing the 2GB plan, your bill will end up being less than $25... assuming you use less data. If tethering is your thing, and you use a ton of data, guess what? You PAY for what you used based on your usage.

I dont see the issue with this... OTHER THAN AT&T having an inferior network, and trying to devise a revenue structure that a) makes it difficult to use the data you pay for, and b) making overages extremely punative... to the point that they are on par with usury (or the charging of confiscatory interest rates, if you werent familiar).

Sorry if I got a little agitated... I know we arent going to agree, but I felt the need to explain it again as I have no clue why you wouldnt want a structure that is more precise with data charges vs. these plans with big gaping holes in the middle where most people wont use the data they are paying for.