AT&T Considering Modifications to Deadline for iPad Unlimited 3G Service Activations

[ProDeux]

Just Called 1-800-my-apple (12:00pm Pdt 6/4)

If you order before the 6th, when your iPad arrives here's what can happen:

* You may start unlimited at any time (eg: right away or 3 months later or longer
* When you downgrade from Unlimited to something else you may NOT return to unlimited, ever
* When you downgrade from Unlimited to something else you may elect to stop 3G coverage and can then re-start 3G coverage at any time following the "new" plan - no more unlimited.

 

[deconstruct60]

If ATT couldn't provide such bandwidth they should have never advertised that they could offer it.

The constraints on what has been offered has been changing over time. Over the life of the iPhone there have been numerous applications that AT&T has not allowed to run over their network. VOIP, tethering , high bandwidth streaming , etc. What folks are blowing off here is that over the last several months AT&T has been relaxing those constraints. I'm not sure what if anything is left on the "restricted" class now.

I suspect Apple has been applying influence to get the restrictions dropped. The cost of getting "any app can run on 3G" is the disappearance of "unlimited". It was "unlimited" given the restrictive set of applications. When that restriction drops than there is no reason to assume has deployed a network that can handle "anything" or that the pricing on the upper end would stay the same.

Personally I'd rather have the option of running what I want to versus infinite consumption of a restricted set of data. If there is some value for blowing out the 2GB cap then it either is or is not worth paying for it. If it isn't ... then really this is a "get something for nothing" situation.

Many of the huge hog consuming apps can be flipped to offline(from 3G) transfer times if really pressed on budget.

 

[tigres]

The constraints on what has been offered has been changing over time.

Your right there- 30 days; time for a change.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

We absolutely need a decent tired plan as you suggest.
I want to see 2 GB at $20 and 5GB at $30 with the 250mb at $15 staying or upped to 1 GB

Or, how about by the megabyte? You could even have an app that keeps tab on your usage, creating an incentive for those concerned about cost to minimize their usage.

If the goal of these kinds of decisions is to reduce overuse of the network (punish the heavy users), concepts like per-megabyte would make everyone conscious of their use, and probably result in a much less congested network for everyone.

Of course, AT&T doesn't really want that either, as conservation swings usually are bad for profitability. But that would sure be a simple way to let people have whatever data they want, while billing them accordingly. If 2Gb is valued at $.0125 per megabyte, then people could do a lot of stuff and spend a lot less than $25... or even $15. Their bill would rise & fall based upon what they actually used, not paying for chunks of blocks of data they may not have used. And it wouldn't matter if you used 1.99Gb or 2.01Gb.

Tiers rip us off. Per Megabyte would be like billing long distance per second or maybe per minute: pay only for what you use, no worries about crossing some threshold, use however much you want to pay for

 

[chaboard]

Apparently, AT&T will alert you as you move toward the limit, but I haven't seen anything that will alert you at the limit.

I was getting more at HOW they would alert me. It being an iPad I don't think text messaging will work....is there some mechanism by which AT&T will pop a dialog box up on my ipad? Or will they just email me (which would suck since I'd have to monitor my email more often and use more bandwidth to see if I'm using my bandwidth!)

 

[Hurda]

Who wants to bet that on Monday Apple announces that movies downloaded from iTunes will be exempt from the 3G bandwidth limit?

- Apple cannot make that exception.
- If you are able to download movies larger then 20MB from iTunes via 3G, you are apparently using 3G Unrestrictor, so why would Apple make the life easier for Jailbreakers?

 

[Glideslope]

Just called at&t for some questions. Their system has crashed and won't be up for at least an hour. Interesting?

 

[essinger]

- Apple cannot make that exception.
- If you are able to download movies larger then 20MB from iTunes via 3G, you are apparently using 3G Unrestrictor, so why would Apple make the life easier for Jailbreakers?

I wasn't aware that there was a restriction like that on the iPad. I've never tried to download a movie from iTunes via 3G. My bad.

 

[bpfesq]

Thanks for the lesson. So what's really in this that could benefit us end users (claimants)? AT&T lives in a bad PR reality, so they don't really care much about that (unless it hits their ever-growing revenues very hard).

Is it going to force this unlimited deal back for iPad 3G owners? Not likely.

Is the max possible dollars at risk more than AT&T spends on- say- a month's office supplies?

Round and round this class action talk goes, but actions- and outcomes- speak louder than gripes, whines, etc. Via a class action lawsuit, how exactly can the claimants put it to AT&T (and/or Apple) so that either company would actually feel it, and do something different in the future?

I hope i didn't come off as lecturing too much.

But yes, i agree--the class action isn't all that likely. Personally, i think the claims aren't on perfectly solid ground. But remember, depending on the claims asserted, punitive damages could be assessed, and that can be a HUGE dollar amount. I just don't know enough about the potential remedies for specific claims to say with any degree of certainty whether punitive damages are available here.

 

[bludodge]

It's called a serial number

So during the sign up process, they access Apples database to confirm the iPad was purchased before June 6th? and they will do this and let you know that you can sign up for unlimited data, or you have to beg, and prove that you purchased it before the bait and switch?

 

[cmaier]

But yes, i agree--the class action isn't all that likely.

I've already heard from a friend of mine that he is doing his due diligence. If he is, so are other attorneys. It will happen.

 

[alent1234]

Or, how about by the megabyte? You could even have an app that keeps tab on your usage, creating an incentive for those concerned about cost to minimize their usage.

If the goal of these kinds of decisions is to reduce overuse of the network (punish the heavy users), concepts like per-megabyte would make everyone conscious of their use, and probably result in a much less congested network for everyone.

Of course, AT&T doesn't really want that either, as conservation swings usually are bad for profitability. But that would sure be a simple way to let people have whatever data they want, while billing them accordingly. If 2Gb is valued at $.0125 per megabyte, then people could do a lot of stuff and spend a lot less than $25... or even $15. Their bill would rise & fall based upon what they actually used, not paying for chunks of blocks of data they may not have used. And it wouldn't matter if you used 1.99Gb or 2.01Gb.

Tiers rip us off. Per Megabyte would be like billing long distance per second or maybe per minute: pay only for what you use, no worries about crossing some threshold, use however much you want to pay for

for the consumer market having complicated pricing plans is an invitation to increased costs. you will have people complaining that they didn't use data and the numbers lie. and you would have to write the application to account for this. it's a lot more complicated than a single database that stores usage and pricing data.

a lot easier to have a few general plans

 

[SailorMike]

I was shopping for an iPad for my daughter and was stunned to see the old unlimited month-to-month plan STILL on the Apple web store. I called the 800 number and the sales person insisted to me that nothing has changed.

I told him about the announced changes and he conceded that at least he hasn't been told anything. He was very surprised. Yeah, an apple rep.

He gradually became embarrassed and concerned that his own company, Apple, was still advertising an non-existent offer.

I then called AT&T to complain since i have a 3G model and THAT guy had no idea that anything changed! I'm not making this up. After understanding what happened he started ripping his own company!

What a clusterf##k!

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

But remember, depending on the claims asserted, punitive damages could be assessed, and that can be a HUGE dollar amount. I just don't know enough about the potential remedies for specific claims to say with any degree of certainty whether punitive damages are available here.

I can't imagine a related scenario where punitive damages could come into play. Punitive damages usually require particularly egregious actions (rich guy is drunk driving and kills a kid, etc). It seems there would have to be some major suffering on the claimants parts. In this case, claimants can't suffer too much. Some can just return the device if they don't like the change in plan (probably many if not all can if they try). Some can- and will- just use the 2Gb cap plan to the same effect.

It's not like a life is altered by this, or that iPad 3G owners will suffer tremendously from this change, and so on. It affects a small subset of buyers (heavy data users) who are not bound to use it for heavy (3G) data now that it is more expensive to do so.

Apple probably would swap for those that want to argue they "paid $130 extra solely for this deal".

I just can't see a punitive scenario in a country where no one got hit for detonating financial weapons of mass destruction a few years ago, that hit tens of millions of people hard and continues to affect tens of millions years later.

And I bet BP gets off with barely a hand slap themselves (blaming the lack of a complete cleanup on tropical storm ______________ soon). Oh yes, and oil prices have to go way up both because of the loss of all that oil in the gulf, new policies coming because of that disaster, and the danger of tropical storm ____________ coming soon. BP will spend a relatively small amount of money, then make a lot more off the higher oil prices coming soon. If the bankers can pay themselves record bonuses one year later, the oil guys won't see much suffering.

 

[thatisme]

Just tested Radio.com on 3g, and it looks that for talk radio, it equates to about 1.5 mb per minute of streaming. It is about 5 mb per minute on the ABC app (tried streaming Modern Family).

So, if you do any volume of streaming during the day (i listen to radio.com over 3g since we don't have open wifi at my office) that 2GB will be burned up rather quickly.

just doing audio streaming will consume 14.4 GB during a month (8 hours per day, 5 days a week, 4 weeks a month) in a worse case scenario, only using radio.com app, not including any web browsing, email, attachment, etc....

2GB also equates to 6 or so hours total of video streaming. 50 minutes of streaming will eat up the basic plan of 250mb.

Not saying this is TYPICAL, but to show that it is not as hard to hit that 2GB cap that ATT has now imposed on the iPad.

I would think that it would be tougher to hit the caps on the iphone, tho.

 

[mahen]

I was going to get an 3G iPad just for the convenience of no contract unlimited data plan. Now Apple can consider this as a lost sale. I guess I will retain my current iPhone data plan, jailbreak it and tether to a WiFi iPad if needed.

 

[cmaier]

I can't imagine a related scenario where punitive damages could come into play.

If there was fraud there can be punitive damages.

 

[deconstruct60]

Oh, the irony.

Whatever, I'm not an AT&T lackey because some folks are disconnected from reality. You can go back and look, I've never supported the position that "unlimted" literally meant unlimited. The contracts from AT&T don't support it . The reality of their deployed infrastructure doesn't support it for every single user. Never has and never will. That is not how folks have built phone networks for over 40+ years (if ever in certain locations).

Likewise the claim that this is evil when it means a price drop for most folks is just a surreal. That doesn't make me an AT&T marketing lackey. It means I can do math and think for myself.

I also don't buy into that macrumors is the whiners club. Where there is only one side to any issue; have to be "pro Apple" or "pro bandwidth hog" customer.

Neither to I buy into the constraining applications is a good thing either. Up till now AT&T has been relying in part on restrictions of apps to manage data flow. If you want to advocate that, fine knock yourself out. I suspect there are many will get value out of tethering and 2GB caps versus what they were doing previously with two separate accounts.

Don't suffer under illusion that "free bandwidth" really doesn't have a cost associated with it. Nobody gives away an infinite amount of a good/service and is running a business. Likewise is was always the case that AT&T can change their pricing and terms at anytime. If you read the contracts you'd know this.

 

[cmaier]

Likewise the claim that this is evil when it means a price drop for most folks is just a surreal.

Please explain your basis for this without citing the 98% figure that AT&T claims and admits applies to 98% of people, in a month, including people who use low bandwidth devices such as blackberries.

 

[Dainin]

Filed a complaint, thanks for the tip!

 

[deconstruct60]

So during the sign up process, they access Apples database to confirm the iPad was purchased before June 6th?

Or Apple gives them a copy daily of what has been sold. There is no reason why AT&T shouldn't be checking for a valid serial number or id string (SIM card id) anyway. Don't want it so that any device claiming to be an iPad gets an account; just actual ones.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

If there was fraud there can be punitive damages.

So we won't hit the banks with fraud charges for big punitive damages on behalf of tens of millions of people affected (you might even argue hundreds of millions- if not billions- affected worldwide), but we will hit AT&T for punitive damages on behalf of maybe 10K or so people affected for this?

Again, I realize we're focused on the pain to ourselves at hand, but I so can't see it if we step back and look at the scenario. Does AT&T have a weak lobby (didn't they learn their lesson in the early 1980's)?

I'm all for punishing fraud, but it seems like there is enormously larger frauds that go unpunished. Why is this going to get special treatment?

 

[cmaier]

So we won't hit the banks with fraud charges for big punitive damages on behalf of tens of millions of people affected, but we will hit AT&T for punitive damages on behalf of maybe 10K or so people affected?

Again, I realize we're focused on the pain to ourselves at hand, but I so can't see it if we step back and look at the scenario. Does AT&T have a weak lobby (didn't they learn their lesson in the early 1980's)?

I'm all for punishing fraud, but it seems like there is enormously larger frauds that go unpunished. Why is this going to get special treatment?

The bank cases aren't done yet. Why is this special treatment? Fraud civil cases often result in punitive damages.

 

[essinger]

If there was fraud there can be punitive damages.

Or when compensatory damages are so low that they still leave the damaging behavior as profitable. Right?

 

[peteo]

I read the interview on TUAW, that is not Apple or AT&Ts website. No one can direct me to a place on an Apple or AT&T website that specifically says if you cancel you cannot restart

This is very simple and easy to understand. I do not know why you are making it so hard.

You sign up Now for iPad 3g data plan. $30 a month.
June 7th passes. next month, $30 gets charged. Then you decide i do not need 3G service for the next 2 months. You CANCEL, you no longer have any "Contract" with at&t. 2 months go by. You decide, I'm going to need 3G data for my iPad this month. When you go to sign up, your like a brand new user. The plans offered have now changed. $25 for 2 gig or $15 250mb.

Call an AT&T rep up an ask, but every statement made by AT&T so far has said if you CANCEL you lose unlimited. Because when you CANCEL you are no longer a customer of AT&T.