AT&T Considering Modifications to Deadline for iPad Unlimited 3G Service Activations

[tigres]

Please explain your basis for this without citing the 98% figure that AT&T claims and admits applies to 98% of people, in a month, including people who use low bandwidth devices such as blackberries.

I would love that as well. I am not believing for a nanosecond that 98% of it's users are under 200mb. Their just spouting off BS- and people believe it like gospel.

Lastly, WTF came up with unlimited? Unlimited is unlimited- we all know the definition. If they don't mean it- don't say it/advertise it/promise it....

My rule in business- under promise, over deliver. AT&T has always been known for not having to back what they advertise or promise.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

OK. Then I'll dream with you and imagine all that punitive cash that will eventually come to me from this fraud. Maybe I can pair it with all that punitive cash that will come to me from the (class action prosecution of the) bankers fraud and retire?

 

[cmaier]

OK. Then I'll dream with you and imagine all that punitive cash that will eventually come to me from this fraud. Maybe I can pair it with all that punitive cash that will come to me from the (class action prosecution of the) bankers fraud and retire?

Nothing will come to you or me (maybe a $50 gift card). Some lawyers will earn a lot of fees, though.

 

[deconstruct60]

Please explain your basis for this without citing the 98% figure that AT&T claims and admits applies to 98% of people, in a month, including people who use low bandwidth devices such as blackberries.

Not sure why anyone would not cite the available data for the usage over eintire population. Who has better data than AT&T? However, if you insist on a second source.....

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/864026/

2GB isn't explicitly on the chart. There is nothing there that discounts AT&T's report. More than half the folks are under 500MB. So even if the average iPad users' consumption is 2x that of the average iPhone users are they are still covered by a 1GB cap with a buffer to spare.

I have yet to see anything from anyone that discounts AT&T's aggregate demographic numbers. That's what is completely lacking anywhere on these board. It is always "well I (and maybe a couple of my buddies) have porked out our utilization so therefore it can't possibly true". Completely lacking any real quantative support and completely indicative of a common human irrational inferencing technique documented by numerous experiments.

 

[tasset]

I would love that as well. I am not believing for a nanosecond that 98% of it's users are under 200mb. Their just spouting off BS- and people believe it like gospel.

Lastly, WTF came up with unlimited? Unlimited is unlimited- we all know the definition. If they don't mean it- don't say it/advertise it/promise it....

My rule in business- under promise, over deliver. AT&T has always been known for not having to back what they advertise or promise.

You know how the ice cream shops have those mini trial spoons for sampling? That is effectively what the carriers have been selling for years with their all you can eat data buffet. Phones with POS operating systems that accessed the "baby Internet" as Steve called it 3 years ago. And now that Android and iPhone are calling them on it, they are waffling. I can't believe they didn't see it coming when iPhone 1.0 landed.

And the 98% stat might be legit because that POS blackberry OS and whatever samsung/LG use consume next to nothing. And those customers have been overpaying for years.

 

[peteo]

You know how the ice cream shops have those mini trial spoons for sampling? That is effectively what the carriers have been selling for years with their all you can eat data buffet. Phones with POS operating systems that accessed the "baby Internet" as Steve called it 3 years ago. And now that Android and iPhone are calling them on it, they are waffling. I can't believe they didn't see it coming when iPhone 1.0 landed.

And the 98% stat might be legit because that POS blackberry OS and whatever samsung/LG use consume next to nothing. And those customers have been overpaying for years.

Great, You make a Really GOOD argument. EXCEPT for the Fact that AT&T/Apple announced Unlimited 3G for the iPad 6 months ago (not 3 years ago). If they didn't know what the hell is going on with their network to understand that in 6 months they would have to change all their data plans, that is pretty bad company management. Or they just coned every one because they already knew they were going to change their plans.

 

[tasset]

Great, You make a Really GOOD argument. EXCEPT for the Fact that AT&T/Apple announced Unlimited 3G for the iPad 6 months ago (not 3 years ago). If they didn't know what the hell is going on with their network to understand that in 6 months they would have to change all their data plans, that is pretty bad company management. Or they just coned every one because they already knew they were going to change their plans.

No, I do agree with you. I think AT&T has a legacy history of monopolistic greed. But a recent history of incompetence and foot in mouth. Look at how they back-tracked on the iPhone upgrade fees last year. And the cease and desist CEO order yesterday. My current finance director comes from AT&T mobility's finance wing. And I have heard my share of incompetent planning stories. So I do not doubt Ralph de la Vega's statement that "most users will go with wifi" is what their network planning experts predicted.

 

[WLS]

Or, how about by the megabyte? You could even have an app that keeps tab on your usage, creating an incentive for those concerned about cost to minimize their usage.

If the goal of these kinds of decisions is to reduce overuse of the network (punish the heavy users), concepts like per-megabyte would make everyone conscious of their use, and probably result in a much less congested network for everyone.

Of course, AT&T doesn't really want that either, as conservation swings usually are bad for profitability. But that would sure be a simple way to let people have whatever data they want, while billing them accordingly. If 2Gb is valued at $.0125 per megabyte, then people could do a lot of stuff and spend a lot less than $25... or even $15. Their bill would rise & fall based upon what they actually used, not paying for chunks of blocks of data they may not have used. And it wouldn't matter if you used 1.99Gb or 2.01Gb.

Tiers rip us off. Per Megabyte would be like billing long distance per second or maybe per minute: pay only for what you use, no worries about crossing some threshold, use however much you want to pay for

That's why they won't offer a flat per MB rate. They make more on a tier structure. I'm just saying if that is the way they roll it out then we should have enough tiers to be able to pick one that is closest to what we are using.

By the way there is an app that meters your 3G usage. It's built in at Settings/general/usage/cellular network data. You reset it for each month or billing period.

 

[fmaxwell]

The reality of their deployed infrastructure doesn't support it for every single user. Never has and never will. That is not how folks have built phone networks for over 40+ years (if ever in certain locations).

Here's the "reality" of the situation: When you offer an unlimited service, it's based on the notion that there will be something like a bell curve distribution of usage. There will be quite a few folks who pay $30 and don't use any 3G bandwidth and there will be others who pay $30 and stream audio 24/7. The former makes up for the latter.

As to whether something is "literal," that's how advertising works. If you advertise something as "unlimited," then that means "without limits" -- literally. Honda offers 3 years and "unlimited mileage" warranty coverage on their Gold Wing. Some people won't break 300 miles in three years. Most people will put a few thousand miles on their bikes in that time. And a few might break a quarter of a million miles in that same time. Honda doesn't have the option of denying coverage and saying "we didn't mean literally that the mileage was unlimited during the warranty period."

 

[IPPlanMan]

Great!

Filed a complaint, thanks for the tip!

Great! Thanks and you're welcome!

 

[SailorMike]

Call an AT&T rep?? The one I just talked to insisted that unlimited was still in effect. And so did the Apple rep I spoke with. Both were clueless on the changes. And when they heard them, they both expressed shock. Their own little WFT moment.

 

[SailorMike]

Call an AT&T rep up an ask, but every statement made by AT&T so far has said if you CANCEL you lose unlimited. Because when you CANCEL you are no longer a customer of AT&T.

Call an AT&T rep?? The one I just talked to insisted that unlimited was still in effect. And so did the Apple rep I spoke with. Both were clueless on the changes. And when they heard them, they both expressed shock. Their own little WTF moment.

 

[tdmac]

Well sort of on the same subject but this makes the new AT&T microcell worthless for those like myself that get spotty coverage in our office but do not have wireless networking. The Data is still subject to your standard plan rates, so if you no longer have unlimited you can expect to pay $$$ after the 2Gb cap even though you are running the data over your own internet connection.

 

[tasset]

Well sort of on the same subject but this makes the new AT&T microcell worthless for those like myself that get spotty coverage in our office but do not have wireless networking. The Data is still subject to your standard plan rates, so if you no longer have unlimited you can expect to pay $$$ after the 2Gb cap even though you are running the data over your own internet connection.

Keeps getting worse doesn't it! I just hope Sprint, Tmobile, and (wishful thinking) Verizon would use their marketing departments to dog pile AT&T with their unlimited data services. Kind of like how Verizon schooled them with the "there's a map for that" ads.

 

[Blorzoga]

They don't have to show it. When you cancel, you've ended your service. When you return to sign up (anew) again, there just won't be that same option.

For example, right now, i have a DISH network subscription called "Absolute". It was a special offer they had a few years ago that was "all HD channels" for a low flat price. That deal ended a long time ago but it is grandfathered as long as I keep the subscription. I could call and cancel it today, go on vacation, then come back and want to sign up with DISH again. However, the "Absolute" option will not be available to me anymore because I ended the subscription.

The "grandfathering" is a courtesy. If I end that courtesy, I don't get re-grandfathered later on. Instead, I can choose from whatever deals they are offering at the time I want to (re)sign up for (new) service again. That's the case here. You can try to believe that since it doesn't say that somewhere, that it means you can enjoy, cancel, then get the same unlimited deal again. But i would not count on that at all.

At this point, it is all speculation. It is not stated anywhere on an Apple or AT&T website and no one has actually cancelled their unlimited and had the unlimited offer disappear. Analogies and comparisons to other service contracts are meaningless. Proof is proof. Apple's site says you can get the unlimited if you get the ipad by 6/6. It doesn't say it has to be maintained or that it will become unavailable to pre-6/7 purchasers if they lapse.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

At this point, it is all speculation. It is not stated anywhere on an Apple or AT&T website and no one has actually cancelled their unlimited and had the unlimited offer disappear. Analogies and comparisons to other service contracts are meaningless. Proof is proof.

The offer won't disappear until the 7th or so, at which point it will be replaced by the new deal (the 2 offers), unless AT&T changes it's mind as implied by the article. The deal is grandfathered while a subscriber keeps an active subscription to it.

And there have been quotes in writing from AT&T officials saying that the new deals replace this deal if someone cancels their unlimited after June 7. That's the primary reason why there are at least 2 threads of massive whining about this topic.

AT&T might change their mind, or might stretch out the time a bit more for iPad 3G owners to mitigate the "not got to do it- subscribe, cancel, subscribe- ONCE argument- but i have little doubt that it is history soon enough. Why? With VOIP over 3G, it is the very best (priced) by far deal for true mobile communications. They do not want it to gain any traction.

But believe what you want. There is no writing anywhere that explicitly says that if I cancel Dish Absolute plan that i won't be able to re-start it again. But i know for sure that if i do, it will NOT be available to me. Dish makes more money with other plans. Similarly, AT&T makes more money by selling limited plans vs. unlimited. Why are they going to keep unlimited available?

 

[cmaier]

Sad.

 

[rworne]

Not sure why anyone would not cite the available data for the usage over eintire population. Who has better data than AT&T? However, if you insist on a second source.....

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/864026/

2GB isn't explicitly on the chart. There is nothing there that discounts AT&T's report. More than half the folks are under 500MB. So even if the average iPad users' consumption is 2x that of the average iPhone users are they are still covered by a 1GB cap with a buffer to spare.

I have yet to see anything from anyone that discounts AT&T's aggregate demographic numbers. That's what is completely lacking anywhere on these board. It is always "well I (and maybe a couple of my buddies) have porked out our utilization so therefore it can't possibly true". Completely lacking any real quantative support and completely indicative of a common human irrational inferencing technique documented by numerous experiments.

Let's look at it this way:

If 98% of the people are not a problem, then why bother to change anything for them? Enforce a 5GB cap per month on the "unlimited" plan, to smack down network abusers and those who are jailbroken and tethering. They don't have to change a damn thing aside from enforcing the cap much the same way they do with the 250MB plan.

Really, I understand why people would want to jailbreak, but 3G unrestrictor and tethering users are definitely part of the problem.

I also find it ironic that as the restrictions come off of what you can run over 3G (Skype, Netflix, Slingplayer) and Apple enforcing low-bandwidth streams over 3G, the bandwidth caps come trotting out.

 

[deconstruct60]

..If they didn't know what the hell is going on with their network to understand that in 6 months they would have to change all their data plans, that is pretty bad company management....

There were approximately zero iPads on their network 6 months ago. Heck, there were approximately zero 1.5 months ago. There were approximately zero of the high porker bandwidth consumption apps on the iPad 6 moths ago (or the iPhone either to a large extent compared to what is queuing up to come out of the chute over the next 2 months. ).

 

[deconstruct60]

Let's look at it this way:

If 98% of the people are not a problem, then why bother to change anything for them?

Of so it is more fair to make them pay to solve the problem even though they are not causing it? Oh ok. You see I been laboring under appearant illusion that it would be more fair to make the folks causing the problem pay to fix the problem that they are a root cause of. Therefore you can remove that cost from the folks who do not cause you problems.


Apparently it is the job of everyone to subsidize the outsized consumption of others. The Wall Street bankers rule is in a effect I guess.

'
"soft caps" and smacking folks down is not clearly communicating to your users. 'unlimited' , if bothered to read the contract, never was there. This avoids assuming folks read the contract. They almost never do and then bitch and moan to no end when find out signed/agreed to something they didn't read.

I also find it ironic that as the restrictions come off of what you can run over 3G (Skype, Netflix, Slingplayer) and Apple enforcing low-bandwidth streams over 3G, the bandwidth caps come trotting out.

it is not ironic at all. It is a swap of constraints. This one is more fair because the hogs pay more while allowing freedom to run any app.


If really wanted to even it out completely, folks would get charged $0.000000xxxx per byte (or some small unit of bytes 512 or 1024 ) consumed. If consumed 250 MB, pay for it exactly. If consumed 282MB, pay for it exactly. Can still have a sliding scale that tweaks the rate higher over a certain baseline usage (e.g., add $0.000001 to the rate over 2GB. ).

 

[tasset]

If you bought your iPad 3G prior to the announcement in the hopes of being able to switch between unlimited and limited (or no) plans at-will, you may want to PM me.

You have been PM'd. Thanks.

 

[tigres]

There were approximately zero iPads on their network 6 months ago. Heck, there were approximately zero 1.5 months ago. There were approximately zero of the high porker bandwidth consumption apps on the iPad 6 moths ago (or the iPhone either to a large extent compared to what is queuing up to come out of the chute over the next 2 months. ).

What is your point? Are you again defending AT&T because a month ago their were zero iPads in the wild on the network, and today Surprisingly and Suddenly out of nowhere like a act of God- now there are <1M iPads screaming on the network? Oh my lord, how on earth is AT&T to blame? They had no idea it was going to sell for crying out loud.

Seriously, I don't get your continuos defense of AT&T's corporate antics. Unless- you are an employee of theirs. But if that's the case, you may want to check the air your breathing at work- may be tainted.

 

[deconstruct60]

Well sort of on the same subject but this makes the new AT&T microcell worthless for those like myself that get spotty coverage in our office but do not have wireless networking. The Data is still subject to your standard plan rates, so if you no longer have unlimited you can expect to pay $$$ after the 2Gb cap even though you are running the data over your own internet connection.

A context that is immobile at a desk. You have an radio device plugged into the local internet. Exactly what is stopping you from plugging a $50 router into the same local internet? Or more likely, in the context, of a business... using the WiFi that is already local? [ if the workplace doesn't allow local WiFi why would it allow a microcell ? If they don't allow local folks to plug in random WiFi units for security reasons, it is dubious the same general security concerns don't impact microcell. Especially when tethering is going to be an option, the phone+microcell can now be used as a router out of the workplace for any PC with wifi in the immediate area. One more box added to the mix, but the exact same security hole/tunnel out of the internal network. ]

It is on purpose. If you are somewhere immobile will access to high speed internet they want you to use it.

 

[marksman]

I would love that as well. I am not believing for a nanosecond that 98% of it's users are under 200mb. Their just spouting off BS- and people believe it like gospel.

Lastly, WTF came up with unlimited? Unlimited is unlimited- we all know the definition. If they don't mean it- don't say it/advertise it/promise it....

My rule in business- under promise, over deliver. AT&T has always been known for not having to back what they advertise or promise.

As opposed to you and cmaier who are just making stuff up and talking out of your backside.

 

[marksman]

If you bought your iPad 3G prior to the announcement in the hopes of being able to switch between unlimited and limited (or no) plans at-will, you may want to PM me, especially if you live in California.

This should be amusing...

"Look Ma, see my lawyering school paid off.. I got AT&T to create a $95 a month unlimited month-to-month plan on the 3gee!"