AT&T Optimizing EDGE Network Ahead Of iPhone

[apfhex]

if the iPhone is only compatable with EDGE in the USA, ATT could have better assurance over who used the phone and on what network. I'm not claiming this is a bulletproof argument, but that could be the reason Apple only included EDGE; to satisfy ATT.

Still not getting ya I'm afraid... if anything isn't AT&T the only GSM carrier with any real 3G in the USA? Assuming people manage to unlock the iPhone, EDGE would work just as well on T-Mobile (and whatever other smaller GSM carriers there might be). If Apple included 3G, it's not like anyone overseas would be able to use it anyway due to conflicting 3G frequencies used, and here it would pretty much just work on AT&T (until T-Mobile rolls out 3G, I don't know if they've already started), so don't see how it would be a bad thing for them at this time.

Though, I buy the argument that Apple didn't include it due to technical limitations (size, battery, whatever) but that we'll definitely see a second revision before too long that has 3G for the US market.

 

[Lepton]

Great, so they'll go from SLOWER than dialup to barely faster?

The 40 and 80kbps are supposed to be minimum real world speeds, in which case 40 is not slower than dialup. Still, I agree with you, I really want 3G, especially since AT&T already has it in my area and it works fine on my current phone. On the other hand I also agree that in most places where I hang out there is WiFi. And I hear that 3G is a power hog so I believe that was probably a consideration.

All in all I'm going to be fine with the hardware. The 2.5G data speed is no problem for texting and text EMail, though a bit pokey if I'm going to Google for a nearby place serving Calamari.

 

[Eric1285]

I don't understand why AT&T is wasting their money upgrading an outdated system just for the iPhone. Everyone knows that the internet on the iPhone over EDGE is going to be slow. AT&T should be working on expanding their 3G coverage so that when the iPhone 2.0 comes out, everyone has access to the 3G network.

 

[russellb]

3g

Sigh ... here in AU 98% of the population has access to 3.5G services , I can get a faster broadband connection on my phone than I can at home with ADSL1

Come on Apple 3G is here ... oh well only 209 days till the Asian rollout and we can only hope AU is included.

 

[desimus]

maybe just maybe

Maybe after this "dip in the cell phone pond" Apple will create their own cell phone company and bring us here in the US up to speeds with the European and Asian markets. And all this ATT vs Verizon, no 3G support etc. will come to an end. That's thinking differently. If you can't play ball in the park you want to play at, build your own ballpark.

I can only hope but I'd gladly give up Cingular to be on the "Apple Network".

 

[orbital]

First off. $30 is cheap for a internet unlimited data plan. Most other providers like Verizon will charge upwards for $40 - $60 a month, dependent if you also have RIM service.

Also 80k min is not bad, considering it maxes at 200k. Sprint's service is a 120 k min and maxes out in the 300ks. not so bad, and thats for laptop service, I doubt you will be streaming much on this, it goes against apples idea of downloading then owning.

WHO THE HELL USES wireless TV seriously why do they toubt this stuff, its not even making good numbers. Why on this earth would you want to watch TV on your phone only when you are in signal range (IE not in a subway, or in motion because the signal will drop?)

 

[scrambledwonder]

I've read that EDGE tops out at around 220 kbps. Not stellar, but still much better than dial-up and not bad for checking email and browsing news sites. Not bad at all.

3G would be better, of course, but the iPhone is an awesome thing and I'm not complaining about EDGE.

 

[heffeque]

Wow... EDGE is really slow :-S
Spain has got 3.6 Mbps availability via HSDPA for more than 70% of the population (not territory). Upload speeds are 300 Kbps right now, but they've been bumped up to 1.4 Mbps just recently. Later this year they'll be 7.2/1.4 Mbps. And if you're not in the lucky 70%... there are 64 Kbps speeds for more than 95% of the Spanish territory, virtually 100% of Spain's population has those speeds.

Pink is were there's 64 Kbps speeds, Yellow is were there's no connection at all:



Orange is were there's 12.2 Kbps speeds, Beige is were there's no connection at all:



There seems to be something really wrong with USA's broadband policies. Sure the US has less population density but... either way... WTF?

 

[iMichael72]

Edge will be enough for me.

 

[TheSlush]

Though, I buy the argument that Apple didn't include it due to technical limitations (size, battery, whatever) but that we'll definitely see a second revision before too long that has 3G for the US market.

Perhaps I'm naive, but I assume that the most significant reason iPhone is being offered with slower-than-3G technology is simply because 3G is unnecessary to sell a gazillion of them right off the bat. Then after that gazillion get sold, they'll upgrade it to 3G... so then a gazillion more will get sold to those who were waiting for 3G, and some of the original EDGE buyers will upgrade too, of course. So I see this as simply a multi-gazillion strategy. Just because they can do something doesn't mean they're going to give it all to us in the first go... they're going to parcel it out over time to sell as many as possible. Apple's been doing this in the Mac space since forever. Call it what you will; I call it capitalism.

I understand why the 3G proponents are complaining. But to me the complaining sounds like the frustration of this mental dilemma: "Am I really going to choose to delay getting my hands on this otherwise amazingly cool device??"

 

[ryanw]

Of course. AT&T's big upgrade will be to ensure 80Kbps. This isn't close to EDGE's top speed, and it is insignificant compared with real-world performance numbers for today's 3G networks (both GSM and CDMA.)

The iPhone's UI is great and wonderful, but without sufficient bandwidth to back it up, a lot of those features won't be nearly as useful.
I haven't heard anything that says otherwise, but we'll find out for certain when they start selling these phones.

My "real world performance" numbers of Verizon Wireless are pretty pathetic. I get about 10KB/s - 80KB/s MAX ... Usually more like 18KB/s. Anything better than that would be fabulous.

 

[scrambledwonder]

Wow... EDGE is really slow :-S
Spain has got 3.6 Mbps availability via HSDPA for more than 70% of the population (not territory). Upload speeds are 300 Kbps right now, but they've been bumped up to 1.4 Mbps just recently. Later this year they'll be 7.2/1.4 Mbps. And if you're not in the lucky 70%... there are 64 Kbps speeds for more than 95% of the Spanish territory, virtually 100% of Spain's population has those speeds.

Pink is were there's 64 Kbps speeds, Yellow is were there's no connection at all:

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/428/pinkvsyellowhb4.th.png

Orange is were there's 12.2 Kbps speeds, Beige is were there's no connection at all:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1135/orangevsbeigewe5.th.png

There seems to be something really wrong with USA's broadband policies. Sure the US has less population density but... either way... WTF?

Yes, WTF indeed! I believe one could point to profit maximization. It makes more sense for telecom companies to wring as much cash out of the old systems as possible before investing in new ones. We're still being wrung here in the US. Bogus.

 

[WestonHarvey1]

I'm still into it...

Of course. AT&T's big upgrade will be to ensure 80Kbps. This isn't close to EDGE's top speed, and it is insignificant compared with real-world performance numbers for today's 3G networks (both GSM and CDMA.)

The iPhone's UI is great and wonderful, but without sufficient bandwidth to back it up, a lot of those features won't be nearly as useful.
I haven't heard anything that says otherwise, but we'll find out for certain when they start selling these phones.

I think the iPhone will be far more useful at 80-200kbps than my Sprint PPC-6700 at 1.5mbit. I'll actually use the internet on iPhone - web browsing and anything else is so painful with Pocket IE, a stylus, and a chiclet keyboard that I only do so in extreme situations - it certainly isn't fun.

This is going to be fun. The kinds of things you'll do on the iPhone will work perfectly well at these speeds. The second generation phones will be better, but I think people need to start looking at how this device is really going to work and not just the throughput - the internet is now truly in your pocket, not just theoretically in your pocket.

 

[slimsakus]

Would have been sweet if the iPhone was to get on Sprint's network. I can get average of 300k with a couple bars on my Q. Full signal I usually get around 700k. Now thats EVDO...and when sprint comes out with WIMAX. mmm mm mm.

 

[orbital]

american's can thank their politicians and the regan ideals of the free market determining the price, that and deregulation. Where else are you billed for in coming and out going calls?

 

[ryanw]

Sigh ... here in AU 98% of the population has access to 3.5G services , I can get a faster broadband connection on my phone than I can at home with ADSL1

Come on Apple 3G is here ... oh well only 209 days till the Asian rollout and we can only hope AU is included.

I hope everyone understands that 3G stands stands for "3rd generation" and NOT 3Gbit/s.

I highly doubt people are getting higher bandwidth on their phones than their home PC's. How much are people actually transfering with their phones currently? There's not much that can be sent over a phone as it stands right now.

 

[CubeHacker]

I get ~210kbps on AT&T's EDGE network in my basement, so i'm not really worried about speed. And its nice that they are trying to get these speeds more consistent. With these speeds, you can load most webpages in a few seconds, which is very acceptable I think.

3G is nice, but its not all its cracked up to be. What most people don't realize is that with a phone, its not the speed of the internet connection thats the bottleneck, but the CPU in the phone. For example, my V3xx has both EDGE and 3G. When surfing the net using the phone, there is absolutely 0% difference between EDGE and 3G speeds. Why? Because the CPU in the phone can't render the pages and JPEGS fast enough. If I tether my phone to my laptop then sure, there is a huge difference, but then again my laptop has a 2.0ghz processor. My phone has a 312mhz ARM9 (which is already fast compared to most phones on the market). While i'm sure the iPhone has a better processor, it probably won't be enough to see much difference between EDGE and 3G.

The bottom line? Stop complaining about the lack of 3G. Unless of course, its the improved voice quality you are after.

 

[heffeque]

While i'm sure the iPhone has a better processor, it probably won't be enough to see much difference between EDGE and 3G.

True, but phones can be used for pure download like for example downloading a song from iTunes or something like that. It's not viable with EDGE and it's prices, but I'm sure that Jobs would have been pretty excited of the idea of being able to download music/video from iTunes to the iPhone via 3.5G if it were possible.

 

[WestonHarvey1]

The PC is still the hub...

True, but phones can be used for pure download like for example downloading a song from iTunes or something like that. It's not viable with EDGE and it's prices, but I'm sure that Jobs would have been pretty excited of the idea of being able to download music/video from iTunes to the iPhone via 3.5G if it were possible.

I'm not sure you can blame the lack of iTMS access simply on EDGE. Apple hasn't figured out if or how they want to do this yet, as evidenced by the lack of iTMS purchasing ability on the Apple TV. They're still into this "Your PC is your digital media hub" model.

 

[jubjub]

I hope everyone understands that 3G stands stands for "3rd generation" and NOT 3Gbit/s.

I highly doubt people are getting higher bandwidth on their phones than their home PC's. How much are people actually transfering with their phones currently? There's not much that can be sent over a phone as it stands right now.

Here (Sweden) all the big mobile operators are running major campaigns for 3.6 Mbit mobile connections.. at about $45 flat fee. Obviuosly real life speed is anyone's guess but still, it's a start, and no.. it's not faster than "at home", so when I can get 100Mbits for the phone.. I'll go mobile for sure

 

[kcroy]

That's was unexpected good news!

That's was unexpected good news! My service just got upgraded and I haven't even switched yet. I'm pumped for June 29th! Goodbye Alltel. (Worst cell phone service I have ever experienced has been with Alltel. My Alltel service contract was up in May. I have saved my $$ for two iPhones. Checked coverage in my area. All looks good. Now if I can just keep from getting hit by a car or something.) Go !

 

[jhedges3]

What I would like to know is, can I buy the iPhone with no "data" contract at all, and simply use the Internet features at 802.11 hotspots, as I would with a laptop?

$30 a month over-and-above a voice contract is a lot of money to use features which will be widely available for free at higher speeds.

I asked someone at an ATT store this same question earlier today. He said it should be possible. According to him some stores allow people to get Treos with voice only plans. He said it's harder for this to happen in ATT stores, though, since in most cases they will pressure (or force) customers into getting data plans for such devices.

 

[RichP]

I had 3G in my Blackjack, EDGE on my Blackberry, and I have only EDGE on my Motorokr E6. They are all the same in my usage experience..PRETTY SLOW.

I cant see the point of the complaints for the US, anyway, our wireless broadband isnt that great.

 

[blehpunk]

wait, wait, wait...why is the iPhone using 802.11g instead of 802.11n. Doesn't the new 802.11n airport "lose speed" when a 802.11g component joins the network?

 

[jhedges3]

Wow... EDGE is really slow :-S
Spain has got 3.6 Mbps availability via HSDPA for more than 70% of the population (not territory). Upload speeds are 300 Kbps right now, but they've been bumped up to 1.4 Mbps just recently. Later this year they'll be 7.2/1.4 Mbps. And if you're not in the lucky 70%... there are 64 Kbps speeds for more than 95% of the Spanish territory, virtually 100% of Spain's population has those speeds.

Pink is were there's 64 Kbps speeds, Yellow is were there's no connection at all:

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/428/pinkvsyellowhb4.th.png

Orange is were there's 12.2 Kbps speeds, Beige is were there's no connection at all:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1135/orangevsbeigewe5.th.png

There seems to be something really wrong with USA's broadband policies. Sure the US has less population density but... either way... WTF?

It's clear that there is a disparity. But why is it that you assume the disparity is attributable to "USA's broadband policies?"

Could it not be a combination of factors, some good and some bad and some just how it is? Are you suggesting, for example, that the disparity has nothing at all to do with simply being at this point in the progression of this market in the US and the various factors that have gotten us to this point?

In addition, why restrict your comparison to the US and Spain? Even though most of us already know the take home message (the one you and so many others like to remind us of, the US has in some respects lagged technology) you might as well give us some numbers or figures that compare the US to other European nations or other Western nations or the rest of the world.

I guess for you, though, the problem with opening the comparison up in that respect is that doing so might, regardless of the result, dilute some of the unspoken satisfaction that we can assume you derive from pointing out that your country in particular has faster networks. This pride, and the faster transmission of wireless data, has me yearning to leave New York for Spain as soon as possible. I just have to find a nice Spanish girl to make it happen, assuming that Homeland Security still allows for that sort of thing.