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apple + at&t

The part I find a little "uneasy" about the whole Apple + AT&T doing business this close together is that AT&T is a different beast. Apple makes great, cool products and puts them out in the world and doesn't mind if the product has a 'slow burn' effect. AT&T is going to jump all over apple in the event that the iPhone isn't an instant success "their way". Apple sees this product as a very cool consumer device where it feels like AT&T wants this to be the next smart phone that does presentations, word documents, etc.

It's a very mixed message.

Good luck :apple: !
 
A thought...

So you think the "average" person is just gonna plop down $500 for a phone........... This said, I believe that there is a great deal we dont know about the iPhone. A great deal that will move apple ahead of the compitition in the "high end" I know that apple will have some kind of announcement about enabling 3G on THIS generation of iPhone, its just a matter of how long it will take and how easy it will be.

What are we getting? A lot! I hate my current phone. When I travel I carry enough electronics to give Inspector Gadget a run for his money. I am so excited to combine my "electronic travel needs" into one iPhone. Sure I will still want my laptop, nicer camera, etc for trips etc, but this will be AWESOME for my average use during the day! Freedom.

Here are my estimates on the cheap...
Phone.................$100
best iPod.............$200 (That's really cheap.)
Camera...............$50
real email............$50 (Don't tell me it's free on other phones. This is real email.)
real browser.........$50 (Best I've ever seen.)
video player..........$50
mystery functions...priceless


3G or not this is a GREAT device!

I agree with you completely we haven't seen anything yet. Steve is holding out something HUGE for us. Don't think it will be 3G, but maybe it will. See my other posts for my thoughts on the Secret Functions of the iPhone.
 
European phone in the US?

I cannot understand why Apple decided to release their high-tech product first in the US. The cell phone penetration level and the enthusiasm for phone services and broadband uses are so much higher in Asia and Europe. In this respect, USA is a 3rd world country that is so many years behind that we won't in any way catch up. If anything, the gap keeps increasing.

I fear that people will love their iPhones but will be very disappointed and frustrated when they try to use the connectivity features, which will not only suck but also be very expensive.

What I wonder is, will I be able to purchase my iPhone in Europe and get a 3G machine and then take advantage of the speeds here in the US?
 
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ryanw said:
The part I find a little "uneasy" about the whole Apple + AT&T doing business this close together is that AT&T is a different beast. Apple makes great, cool products and puts them out in the world and doesn't mind if the product has a 'slow burn' effect. AT&T is going to jump all over apple in the event that the iPhone isn't an instant success "their way". Apple sees this product as a very cool consumer device where it feels like AT&T wants this to be the next smart phone that does presentations, word documents, etc.

It's a very mixed message.

Good luck :apple: !

and how do you know at&t or apple's position on marketing the phone. to me it seems they have the same ideas in mind.
 
Just think about it this way. The hard core apple enthusiasts including myself will be gobbling up the iPhone the day it hits the store. Lets say that it is not even capable of 3G and 6 months later (Christmas) apple releases a 3G phone. How do you think those "champions of apple" who are the guinea pig for the 1st gen iPhone are gonna feel for the next YEAR and a HALF as they wait and wait to be able to get the phone that has the capabilities that they should have had. Apple ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT WANT THIS. They would alienate the people who may as well be sales staff. The people that are out there telling everyone how great apple is. Do you think that they would not have this thought out. Trust me, they MUST have a plan, and if by some laps of sanity they dont, I hope someone wakes them up and gets one in place before this thing hits the market. As for me, I have to believe that there is a plan to incorporate 3G, and to enable 3rd party apps, and to be able to change the battery and whatever other issue that may be a thorn in our side.
 
3G or not this is a GREAT device!

I agree with you completely we haven't seen anything yet. Steve is holding out something HUGE for us. Don't think it will be 3G, but maybe it will. See my other posts for my thoughts on the Secret Functions of the iPhone.

I love your enthusiasm and I happen to agree, but it would be a Ferari in a 100mile school zone.
At least we will have wifi.
 
Just think about it this way. The hard core apple enthusiasts including myself will be gobbling up the iPhone the day it hits the store. Lets say that it is not even capable of 3G and 6 months later (Christmas) apple releases a 3G phone. How do you think those "chamions of apple" whao are the guinea pig for the 1st gen iPhone are gonna feel for the next YEAR and a HALF as they wait and wait to be able to get the phone that has the capabilities that they should have had. Apple ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT WANT THIS. They would alienate the people who may as well be sales staff. The people that are out there telling everyone how great apple is. Do you think that they would not have this thought out. Trust me, they MUST have a plan, and if by some laps of sanity they dont, I hope someone wakes them up and gets one in place before this thing hits the market. As for me, I have to believe that there is a plan to incorporate 3G, and to enable 3rd party apps, and to be able to change the battery and whatever other issue that may be a thorn in our side.
The plan is to allow AT&T customers to buy a new iPhone when it comes out regardless of contract status. iPhones probably wont be subsidized so they'll be more than willing to let you give them another $5-600 and extend your contract for another TWO years. Peoples dream of hidden 3g is a fantasy. GPS perhaps...
 
We will see. Im not giving up on apple yet.
I think there are great things "still to come" next week.
 
According to this article in Businessweek (2004) the major reason the US is falling behind isn't subsidies. I was wrong. It's monopolies.

The argument is backed up by this article from ArsTechnica (2007) which also mentions the lack of competition.

I googled "us behind broadband" to find these articles.

Sorry I was wrong about the subsidies, but I still claim I was right about the greed.
 
So you think the "average" person is just gonna plop down $500 for a phone. Come on. ATT has not been shy about its design to Target business users.

*SNIP*

I think you misunderstand my use of the word "average". It appears you took it to mean Average income, when I was talking about average technology skill set / average need for cell phones services past voice communication.
If you reread my post with that in mind, you might come up with something I can respond to.
 
Just think about it this way. The hard core apple enthusiasts including myself will be gobbling up the iPhone the day it hits the store. Lets say that it is not even capable of 3G and 6 months later (Christmas) apple releases a 3G phone. How do you think those "champions of apple" who are the guinea pig for the 1st gen iPhone are gonna feel for the next YEAR and a HALF as they wait and wait to be able to get the phone that has the capabilities that they should have had. Apple ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT WANT THIS.

Wait...
You're telling me that Hardcore fans, like yourself, are going to buy the phone as son as it comes out, and then WHEN they add further capabilties, which only hardcore fans like you know/care about, that you, the hardcore fans, are going to be upset with apple for?
*Scratches head* :confused:

I'm going to tell you right now that Apple will add a feature, whatever it may be, in the next generation iPhone around WWDC that will make *some* buyers of the first rev jealous. Period. End of story. Welcome to technology. And the mere fact that you KNOW this and are going to buy ANYWAY, means that you have NO rights to be upset with Apple for it.

This is like saying I'll be pissed if they release a higher horsepower BMW next year, because I'm going to buy one next week. Only everyone is telling me right now that BMW is releasing a better car next year... and I'm buying anyway. BMW wouldn't want to piss me off, would they? :rolleyes:
 
Correct!!! Advances in Technology are unstoppable, and there will be features that we have not heard of to make us envious. Unfortunately 3G is not an emerging tech for next year. It is not even THIS year. It is last year. I will not be dissapointed at the next generation iPhone surpassing this one. I will be dissapointed if this generations iPhone turns out to be "last generation". 3G is here and now, it sould be incorporated into this iPhone. I believe it will, and of course you are ABSOLUTELY correct if they announce that there will not be a "3G enabler" for this gen iPhone There is no way I and a great deal of other people out there would even consider it. (OK maybe consider it - it is a fabulous gadget - but why have such a great thing if you cant use it and we all konw that it is simply a matter of a SHORT time so why buy now when you can just wait a couple months) In that case, those carefree people who have money to throw at it every six months, who do purchase it right away will have no gripe. Of course they can afford not to. Fortunately my posts are all on the optomistic side, as I truely believe that apple will make plans enable "current" 3G technology on this phone. As for future gen iPhones with NEW technology, I cant wait to be envious.
 
If indeed there is no plan for matching this AWESOME phone with a decent network, I will wait till they get it together and I have the means to use it. I can wait, meanwhile we'll see what else comes along.
 
What I would like to know is, can I buy the iPhone with no "data" contract at all, and simply use the Internet features at 802.11 hotspots, as I would with a laptop?

That's what I was wondering... I'm in NYC! I have wireless access and hotspots all over... And I'm also wondering if you have to pay $30 per phone in your plan???? :eek: Too much $$$$$!! If so, then we would have to delay or purchase of the iPhone. Or maybe we could purchase a limited data plan for use when we're traveling.
 
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if you are in an area that has 3G, you are more than likely in an area that has many, many, many WIFI hot spots. it wont be THAT bad!
 
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if you are in an area that has 3G, you are more than likely in an area that has many, many, many WIFI hot spots. it wont be THAT bad!
INDEED, thank GOD for that, and that my friend is what may keep this thing from sinking. I second wifi. I think once you get this thing in your hands in a wifi network our jaws will drop to the floor.
Im not sying it is bad anyway, I just believe that apple will accomodate enabling of 3G on this gen of phone. I am completely convinced that they have a plan. If they dont, well, its not the ed of the world, but if they do - they will be heros. ...and wont that be great
 
What he's saying, I believe, is that the "various factors" that have gotten us to this point (behind Europe and Asia in overall broadband adoption and speed) were short-sighted and profit-driven decisions made by our government in favor of the telecoms and not in the best interests of the consumers.

In Europe and Asia, (correct me if I'm wrong) government took on the responsibility of promoting, even pushing broadband. It required a large capital outlay that private industry was not willing to risk. In the US, the telecoms argued that they could roll out broadband much more quickly and efficiently than if the feds stepped in, like when we electrified the country. They tooks billions in subsidies, pocketed it, and we the consumers are stuck with technological marvels that sip data through drink stirrers.

Ok, but wait. Any good references for the first paragraph (books, reviews, articles, researchers)? Is Wikipedia enough? What were the steps? Who were they made by? What makes those steps the primary factor in getting us to this point?

I'm confused about the end of your second paragraph. So the telecoms argue to the feds (which feds and when?) that they can do just fine getting broadband out by themselves? Then what happens. If they got what they wanted how does that get us to your last point. They argue they'll do it by themselves and then they get "billions in subsidies?" I thought by themselves meant sans subsidies. Plus if they could get the subsidies for not going at it alone why would they asking for going at it alone?

According to this article in Businessweek (2004) the major reason the US is falling behind isn't subsidies. I was wrong. It's monopolies.

The argument is backed up by this article from ArsTechnica (2007) which also mentions the lack of competition.

I googled "us behind broadband" to find these articles.

Sorry I was wrong about the subsidies, but I still claim I was right about the greed.

Interesting retraction.

I think you did the wrong search, though. The original post by heffeque, which I was responding to, was about mobile phone standards. And not about broadband. I guess your response to mine was where the topic of broadband was introduced. I didn't notice until your last post.

For what it's worth to you, I see nothing in your other post about greed. Did I miss something?

Regardless of the market (mobile data or broadband) I'm not sure that I'm with you. It seems like since you didn't find subsidies as being the culprit for why the US has lagged you're inclined substitute in lack of competition.

For broadband, the Businessweek article does make the claim that policy (or a lack of it) has contributed to what it considers a significant and negative disparity for the US in broadband penetration and speed. It makes this claim rather weakly, but anyway.

With respect to competition, the article suggests that the US adopt policies to encourage it. It points to Korea and Japan as examples where such policies have been successful.

The Ars Technica article casts doubt on the data that it focuses on. Interestingly the UK seems to be significantly behind the US if one believes their data on broadband speed. It also makes a couple of policy recommendations. Notice that it does not, especially in any sort of comprehensive way, suggest that subsidies or lack of competition is the primary or singular factor in the state of the US broadband or mobile phone markets.

I sort of like this post on differences between European and American mobile phone use.

Although it is somewhat anecdotal, it considers a diversity of factors that have gotten these markets to where they're at. According to his post many of the differences are cultural and historical. He makes no mention of policy and or subsidy and or monopoly has having a role, which isn't to say that either of those aren't significant factors. As you know, there may be many other articles on the matter that suggest as much.

He also provides a counterexample to the idea that differences in density can account for the differences in coverage between US and Europe:

The usual American excuse for its poor coverage is that US population densities are low. That doesn't hold up to close examination – Norway has about 15 people per square kilometer, the same density as Arizona, which is not exactly crowded. The US overall has about 33, more than double Norway's density. I think Europe is just more dedicated to universal mobile coverage.​

I'm not suggesting that a single counterexample settles the density explanation. Density may have a role and it would seem like a more thorough analysis of the differences in coverage would include density among other factors.
 
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Apple has always been about the "user experience, simplicity, and design" that is whats important. the iPhone will succeed because ease of use....... nothing more.
(p.s. have you noticed that every computer that you see in movies now are all macs!)
 
That's what I was wondering... I'm in NYC! I have wireless access and hotspots all over... And I'm also wondering if you have to pay $30 per phone in your plan???? :eek: Too much $$$$$!! If so, then we would have to delay or purchase of the iPhone. Or maybe we could purchase a limited data plan for use when we're traveling.

I asked someone about this at the AT&T store on Broadway and Astor Place today. He said that the data packages will probably be bundled and will be different than those for other PDA's and smartphones. To your point, his impression was that you will be able to get it with voice only. Obviously, though, he could be wrong.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 
Let's think about it for a second: the iPhone has WiFi so they are doing anything but shutting out the business market that cares about 3G. The speed differences are not nearly as huge as some are making it out to be, especially with the limited rollout of 3G in the US. It is mainly available in major cities which, hey have WiFi. It would be good to have 3G just for more options and the latest tech, but for me personally it's useless especially with the tradeoff with battery life and size.
 
Let's think about it for a second: the iPhone has WiFi so they are doing anything but shutting out the business market that cares about 3G. The speed differences are not nearly as huge as some are making it out to be, especially with the limited rollout of 3G in the US. It is mainly available in major cities which, hey have WiFi. It would be good to have 3G just for more options and the latest tech, but for me personally it's useless especially with the tradeoff with battery life and size.

How much would 3G impact on battery and size?
 
Don't know exactly how much but it definitely makes at least a little impact on battery and size. For me, it's not worth it.
 
If Motorola can stuff HSDPA in to a Razr, Apple can stuff it in an iPhone. A new PDA/Smartphone launch with anything less than 3G is idiotic.

I tend to agree, especially with the heavy bandwidth needed for Safari browsing and data bit-rates. Although I have it on notice from a few AT&T/Cingular friends that this Autumn will see the second generation iPhone with 3G/HSDPA technology.
 
(p.s. have you noticed that every computer that you see in movies now are all macs!)

lol totally. maybe it's the design? something about the Apple/Mac ergonomics and Ives' design that just plays well with Hollywood and movie set designs (either that or Apple pays some big $$$ for the advertising in movies).
 
I cannot understand why Apple decided to release their high-tech product first in the US. The cell phone penetration level and the enthusiasm for phone services and broadband uses are so much higher in Asia and Europe. In this respect, USA is a 3rd world country that is so many years behind that we won't in any way catch up. If anything, the gap keeps increasing.

I fear that people will love their iPhones but will be very disappointed and frustrated when they try to use the connectivity features, which will not only suck but also be very expensive.

What I wonder is, will I be able to purchase my iPhone in Europe and get a 3G machine and then take advantage of the speeds here in the US?

It does seem an odd business decision to release the phone first in a country that has a poorly developed mobile phone network. The rest of the world is a much larger and more lucrative market then the US.

And all this talk of governments subsidising the 3G networks. Where has that happened? Certainly not in the UK where the phone companies had to pay large sums to secure a 3G licence - quite the opposite.
 
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