AT&T to Face Net Neutrality Complaint Regarding FaceTime Over Cellular Limitation

[G*willy]

People are grandfathered in with unlimited data. They could share their unlimited data by tethering.

If you have tethering, you probably don't have the "Unlimited Data" plan. Because if you make any change to your data plan, you cannot keep the "Unlimited Data" part of the package.
If you do have "Unlimited Data" it will throttle you at 3GB (supposed to be upped to 5GB for LTE)

 

[Codyak]

be happy AT&T didn't do what verzion is doing... NO UNLIMITED plans with iPhone 5...

That's actually not true, if you had unlimited with Verizon before you can keep it, but you don't get a subsidized phone price. I guess it comes down to, would you rather pay less and get throttled/not-existent LTE, or pay more and get the opposite?

The choice is all up to the user.

 

[w0by]

Data plans

I'm not sure what to think about everything. My unlimited internet plan goes to like 20kbps after 3gb. Now I have to have a shared data plan people are saying to use Facetime over 4G? Ok, I'll just jailbreak my phone!

 

[writingdevil]

WOW. Look who is talking. Apple is the biggest offender of this... Starting with the iphone. Following with the charging port. Apple is planning to make $100,000,000 in the first year from charging people for the updated plug...

Greed at its finest.

You might want to learn what an analogy is before you use one not applicable. You seem to be more upset about Apple's pricing structure than about the issue the thread is about, and it's your right to be upset about pricing of
Apple products, just irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Intarweb]

It's not just about FaceTime, is about the practice of treating data (content) differently, in an un-neutral way.

Most who are defending this do not understand this very simple principle.

 

[iMrNiceGuy0023]

Alot of people dont use FaceTime because its limited to wifi only. With it moving to 3G im sure FaceTime will be a big deal. Im jailbroken and get FaceTime calls over in the gym, at park, in the mall from family and friends

AT&T has most of the iPhone users so I think their plan is to get users to switch to their new shared plan to use this great feature.

I hope they force AT&T to change this

 

[Deadman64]

I don't use Facetime, so I don't feel like I am being screwed in any way. I do use data and voice at the same time however. Funny how things are relative and don't necessarily reflect on someone else.

What if they said you can't use safari over cellular unless your on a shared data plan?

 

[JuBe]

You whiners need to get over it. AT&T is a business and therefore it makes business decisions. When AT&T offered unlimited data, devices simply didn't use that much, they were slow, apps were slow, steaming movies and videos through cellular technology wasn't quite here yet, etc.

Now data consumption has gone through the roof and AT&T has to manage their costs. You are bunch of entitled babies that expect businesses to operate at a loss to give you the service you think you deserve. You are lucky they didn't strip away your unlimited data already. Businesses are NOT in business for the good of humanity. They are here to make a profit. They make a profit by providing goods or services at a price where we can FREELY choose to trade our hard earned dollars for that service. If you don't like the service they provide, STOP freely CHOOSING to trade your dollars for their service. It's as simple as that.

First off, no one is saying AT&T needs to operate at a loss, I think we all just want them to use their revenue to maintain and upgrade instead of whining about cutting into profits.

Secondly, why hold the consumer up to such a high standard, while refusing to acknowledge that AT&T has an obligation as well? People are paying for the service (obligation met), but AT&T keeps reaching for loopholes to avoid providing the services that consumers are paying for.

Thirdly, there is hardly an opportunity to "freely" choose a mobile service provider; by most accounts the system is a duopoly (AT&T and Verizon). Additionally, how are consumers supposed to be given an option to choose, if we refuse to give the FCC the authority to create protections for the consumer that prevent the financially oppressive policies of these massive corporations?

Saying we have the freedom to pay with our wallets fails to show an economic appreciation beyond the high school level. Competition in this situation is a joke and incentives for these companies to actually care for their customers are hard to come by.

 

[Pikepride2000]

I hope AT&T loses

 

[tacobandit]

I understand the outrage, I really do. I think the philosophy and goals behind net neutrality are good. But what you guys fail to realize is that AT&T is not being malicious here, and you should probably be more understanding to their predicament:

These grandfathered unlimited plans are based on a business model that far predates the technology packed into an iphone now. The plan was primarily geared towards calling with data as an afterthought. So what happens when you can painlessly make pure data calls from any iphone to any iphone (without first conspiring to have a common app like skype and signing up and adding friends etc) basically what you get is the potential for all hell to break loose. Now, somebody who was paying a lot more for their minutes no longer has to because those minutes are now measured on their data plan, which is unsustainably cheap. So what do you suggest AT&T do? If you were on their board, and a large shareholder, what would be your great plan to remedy this impedance mismatch between technology and business model? The "oh well block FaceTime unless they're on a modern plan" idea seems great on the surface to AT&T: you can maintain your old business model for those that don't want to move and love their unlimited data... People are free to choose: classic cell plan or new cell plan (unlike Verizon which has stopped offering old plans to new customers)

What else can AT&T do? Would you prefer it if they were more forceful about moving you to a modern plan? Just canceling the grandfathered unlimited data plans outright? I suspect they thought that would be an even larger PR disaster. Verizon probably has FAR FAR FAR fewer iPhone users on their grandfathered unlimited plan than does AT&T so the loss is more easily swallowed for them.

I mean, AT&T is not malicious, they're not trying to force you into paying them more for stuff you don't need.. They're trying to reconcile the new technology with an old business plan, and there is no easy solution that will make everybody happy.

 

[Deadman64]

Alot of people dont use FaceTime because its limited to wifi only. With it moving to 3G im sure FaceTime will be a big deal. Im jailbroken and get FaceTime calls over in the gym, at park, in the mall from family and friends

AT&T has most of the iPhone users so I think their plan is to get users to switch to their new shared plan to use this great feature.

I hope they force AT&T to change this

Exactly. Facetime isn't used a lot because we currently have to be on wifi! I see it becoming as popular as a regular phone call.

Really hope AT&T gets screwed in the courts over this. How can we support the group that is trying to motion against AT&T?

 

[writingdevil]

Um...ok...isn't that what all companies want to do? Make money so that they can pay the bills, pay their employees, who in turn, buy other products and services from other companies?

This response misses the point of the actions being filed. May be an interesting philosophy about "why businesses want to make money" but not a consideration in the filings.

 

[magpie maniac]

Dammit, if I want to use my grandfathered unlimited data plan to sit on FaceTime 24/7 playing chess with family members who live several states away, that's my prerogative. We should all be allowed to do this. Unlimited and cheap data for everyone! Sure, it might crash the local network in heavy data traffic areas and it might raise the rates of our data plans, but it's a natural right given to all persons at birth.

/s

The average American is sorely lacking in knowledge of basic macro and microeconomic principles.

 

[Nickerbocker]

I don't really understand why AT&T wouldn't want users to suck their data dry over FaceTime and get over-usage charges on their bill...

 

[joueboy]

Now we're doomed! These are all staged by AT&T, did anybody remember the throttling case!? Rejoice not, because the final decision is from AT&T! Now we're all throttled no exemptions then this, they all gonna force us to take the shared data plan. This is exactly how we end-up that AT&T is been hoping to happen. They're one big evil suckers!

 

[Intarweb]

Alot of people dont use FaceTime because its limited to wifi only. With it moving to 3G im sure FaceTime will be a big deal. Im jailbroken and get FaceTime calls over in the gym, at park, in the mall from family and friends

AT&T has most of the iPhone users so I think their plan is to get users to switch to their new shared plan to use this great feature.

I hope they force AT&T to change this

You do FaceTime calls at the gym?

 

[shamus109]

The fact that AT&T said you can use any other video chat app just not the built in one really sets me off. They're just being blatant dicks about it, they didn't even give us a reason as to why they are doing this. I bet the CEO is thinking "We're doing this because we can!" They're like over controlling parents that make their kids do things they don't want to do only because they are the adult and the child has no say.

 

[JuBe]

I know of a friend that has a limo service and there are very expensive airport taxes added to your business if you want to drop someone off to the airport. There is actually a tag they have to put on the car to make it legally possible. The taxi service person probably just didn't know to say that.

Those costs are passed down to the customer.

AT&T is just trying to prevent their network from getting killed by iPhone users. But I wish for non unlimited customers, they would allow FaceTime. They can control it like they do tethering.

This didn't really happen, but my point still holds, there isn't a reason for charging extra based on one end use of data over another.

 

[cmwade77]

Can't AT&T just slow down the data connection on FaceTime calls, so as to make FaceTime unusable? Maybe so the video updates once every 10 seconds or so.

There are ways around this that won't please anyone but AT&T.

Actually, no, that would also be a violation of the rules. The rules basically say they can't do ANYTHING to discriminate against services that compete with other offerings they have. This competes with minutes used on the cell phone, so they are not allowed to block it or slow it down.

 

[bretm]

Seems like a lot of ungrateful complaining to me. While sure, data should be data, there are numerous free ones that work over 3g. Tango & Skype are two I use on occasion. Both free. So obviously there's no blocking or monopolistic practices going on. Apple and AT&T have an agreement of sorts I'm sure. So if AT&T is forced to allow it, even though their agreement is otherwise, I'd guess AT&T would be permitted to void the agreement altogether and FaceTime would have to be purchased or downloaded instead of being preinstalled. And that's a BIG deal to Apple. It's hard to market your product as having an exclusive if it doesn't come on the phone pre-loaded.

If anyone should be complaining it should be Apple, but for the reasons above, I'd guess they're happy with the arrangement as is.

The deaf or immigrants don't have any more right to facetime over cellular than I do BTW. That's just pandering to even say something like that. Doesn't make any sense anyway. It's certainly cheaper to use wifi at their home or a coffee shop. Oh, what? They can't afford wifi at home? But they can afford an $800 iPad and a $100/mo cell plan just to "inexpensively" talk to their kin overseas? Give me a freakin break! And oh lordy what did the deaf do before Apple and AT&T came to their rescue? Seems it only does any good if the other person knows sign language anyway.

Once again, plenty of free options out there.

Once again, I still believe ATT is doing themselves a disservice by being so restrictive, but there's no reason to bring legal into it.

 

[newagemac]

Why should AT&T care how you (legally) use your data on any data plan?

Because when unlimited data was originally offered, you didn't have as much capability to suck down data and clog up the network as you do now with HSPA+, LTE, and native video calling over retina screens and HD cameras. You can't realistically expect for the carriers to be able to handle unlimited data (at your original price) no matter how much technology improves and data consumption increases. What was realistically possible with unlimited data then is different now. And not taking that into account is pie in the sky thinking.

However, there is no excuse for limiting a feature on data plans that are metered. The carrier isn't on the hook for anything because you already purchased a set amount of data at an agreed upon price and even pay more for overages. Their excuse on "unlimited" plans at least make logical sense and its reasonable. The excuse on plans that are limited make no sense at all.

 

[Jett0516]

no biggie..we'll just find another way to steal from you. It's what we do best.

 

[doelcm82]

Why should AT&T care how you (legally) use your data on any data plan?

I'm not sure they should, but if you go over the threshold where your data is throttled, you won't want to do FaceTime.

 

[Plutonius]

Let's be realistic here. It's either that or we lose our grandfathered unlimited data and be forced to switch to the mobile share plan a la Verizon.

Can't eat our cake and have it too.

AT+T will have to get rid of the grandfathered unlimited plan sooner or later. They probably should have ended it when the iPhone 5 was announced.

 

[bretm]

Actually, no, that would also be a violation of the rules. The rules basically say they can't do ANYTHING to discriminate against services that compete with other offerings they have. This competes with minutes used on the cell phone, so they are not allowed to block it or slow it down.

I would've thought throttling would've fallen into that boat as well. I guess it doesn't say unlimited speed. Do they throttle the data throughput of voice calls too? Probably needs very little bandwidth for voice calls.