AT&T to Face Net Neutrality Complaint Regarding FaceTime Over Cellular Limitation

[samson533]

First off, no one is saying AT&T needs to operate at a loss, I think we all just want them to use their revenue to maintain and upgrade instead of whining about cutting into profits.

Secondly, why hold the consumer up to such a high standard, while refusing to acknowledge that AT&T has an obligation as well? People are paying for the service (obligation met), but AT&T keeps reaching for loopholes to avoid providing the services that consumers are paying for.

Thirdly, there is hardly an opportunity to "freely" choose a mobile service provider; by most accounts the system is a duopoly (AT&T and Verizon). Additionally, how are consumers supposed to be given an option to choose, if we refuse to give the FCC the authority to create protections for the consumer that prevent the financially oppressive policies of these massive corporations?

Saying we have the freedom to pay with our wallets fails to show an economic appreciation beyond the high school level. Competition in this situation is a joke and incentives for these companies to actually care for their customers are hard to come by.

First of all, consumers have zero right to tell a company how to use its profits.

Secondly, AT&T has zero obligation to the customer beyond what they already agreed to. In this case, AT&T never agreed to allow unlimited Facetime. As technology changes, so does company policy and the services it offers.

Thirdly, you have TONS more options than the iPhone on ATT and Verizon. Choose a different phone. Choose Sprint, T-Mobile, US Mobile, Virgin Mobile, Cricket. Or another option people tend to forget about, choose to not have a cell phone. Not 15 years ago, most of America and the world operated just fine without them. ATT (or any other carrier for that matter) has no "obligation" to provide that to you.

This is not "high school" economic theory. It's free economic theory. You have to either have gone to college or own a business to understand. Heaven forbid you do both.

 

[danpass]

You whiners need to get over it. AT&T is a business and therefore it makes business decisions. When AT&T offered unlimited data, devices simply didn't use that much, they were slow, apps were slow, steaming movies and videos through cellular technology wasn't quite here yet, etc.

Now data consumption has gone through the roof and AT&T has to manage their costs. You are bunch of entitled babies that expect businesses to operate at a loss to give you the service you think you deserve. You are lucky they didn't strip away your unlimited data already. Businesses are NOT in business for the good of humanity. They are here to make a profit. They make a profit by providing goods or services at a price where we can FREELY choose to trade our hard earned dollars for that service. If you don't like the service they provide, STOP freely CHOOSING to trade your dollars for their service. It's as simple as that.

your statement is invalidated in that facetime uses data.

what does it matter how someone reaches their data limit and then pays for overages?

Let the overage fee be their punishment for running their mouth (loudly) in public while looking at their phone. (thankfully the Nextel *breeeeep* is a thing of the past lol)

the days of the unlimited plan option are long gone, only the grandfathered accounts have it and those savvy enough to put a plan on a dumbphone then switch to a smartphone.

 

[Medinarem]

Doesn't make Sense

Can someone explain to me how I can share my connection with my current 5g hotspot plan and others can FaceTime But I can't.

 

[macrumorschamp]

You whiners need to get over it. AT&T is a business and therefore it makes business decisions. When AT&T offered unlimited data, devices simply didn't use that much, they were slow, apps were slow, steaming movies and videos through cellular technology wasn't quite here yet, etc.

Now data consumption has gone through the roof and AT&T has to manage their costs. You are bunch of entitled babies that expect businesses to operate at a loss to give you the service you think you deserve. You are lucky they didn't strip away your unlimited data already. Businesses are NOT in business for the good of humanity. They are here to make a profit. They make a profit by providing goods or services at a price where we can FREELY choose to trade our hard earned dollars for that service. If you don't like the service they provide, STOP freely CHOOSING to trade your dollars for their service. It's as simple as that.

You are an incorrect. This is about drawing a line. AT&T doesn't have to stop at FaceTime, they can continue to every app on the appstore. You may not be able to use data for anything but e-mail or text messages eventually unless you pay for a data package PER APP. What JuBe said is exactly what is going on. You are paying for 1s and 0s and not the data the 1s and 0s translates to additionally. I bet you're you like government run healthcare as well. Why let the government stop at healthcare, why not all insurance companies. Then why stop there, why not let them tell you that you can not only not drive without a seatbelt on, but you have to have both hands on the wheel and a foot on the brake pedal as well and let them install video cameras to ensure you follow the rules. It's about limits and fair practice.

 

[bretm]

lol if people "switched" as much as they scream they will, AT&T would be singing a different tune. Bottom line, AT&T won't do anything that will make customers leave in droves.

ATT plans are still cheaper, and they still have rollover minutes, and I still have unlimited data. Just can't see how leaving would be worth it. My signal is just fine. No better or worse than Verizon here. If I was a traveling salesman maybe.

 

[doctorossi]

Sure, it might crash the local network in heavy data traffic areas and it might raise the rates of our data plans, but it's a natural right given to all persons at birth.

What part of the agreement that AT&T offered makes you think it's unreasonable for their customers to expect unlimited data?

* They were offered unlimited data.

* They paid for unlimited data.

The whiner is AT&T who are trying to wriggle out of an offer that they freely made.

 

[OtherJesus]

I use AT&T and I don't care what carrier other people use. Carrier wars are even more silly than these cell phone wars...

However... AT&T really dropped the ball here and no matter what happens, they deserve all the bad press they receive over this fiasco.

Data is data and if your network can't handle that then perhaps you need to lower you CEOs holiday bonus and invest in your network.

 

[Nunyabinez]

AT&T offered unlimited plans back in a very different technological market. The bargain they offered its customers wasn't unlimited data w/ netflix, hulu, pandora, facetime, or any other data hog. But things change. And in current market conditions, they say no. That's ok, let them.

It is true that these contracts happened in a different time, but AT&T should have realized that things would change. That was a risk that they took since I doubt you could legally include a provision to simply move someone off a product when you didn't want to offer it anymore. But I also doubt that the contract included a provision that they could block data from specific apps, regardless of being included on the phone or not. I think this will lose both on net neutrality grounds and on contract grounds.

 

[azentropy]

Tethering was not permitted on any of AT&T's unlimited plans.
Read the contract... it's explicitly prohibited.
Grandfathered or not, you risk losing your unlimited plan if they determine you're tethering.

If you have tethering, you probably don't have the "Unlimited Data" plan. Because if you make any change to your data plan, you cannot keep the "Unlimited Data" part of the package.
If you do have "Unlimited Data" it will throttle you at 3GB (supposed to be upped to 5GB for LTE)

I take it you didn't read my original post when I said I didn't have a problem with AT&T restricting those on unlimited plans.

Tethering is blocked and besides AT&T throttles you after 3GB for 3G and 5GB for LTE - so again I fail to see the point.

Again, look at the original post. Then I corrected the points you made. Sorry if you still don't understand.

 

[Smith288]

Veruca Salt is English.

Veruca Salt is also known as a GIANT cry baby when she doesn't get what she wants.

 

[bretm]

Can someone explain to me how I can share my connection with my current 5g hotspot plan and others can FaceTime But I can't.

Too funny. Well, their phones/pads see wifi, while yours only sees a cell connection. Ironic. And seems to be an oversight on ATT's part, but they may have no way of controlling it.

 

[ritmomundo]

Does Verizon allow Facetime over cellular data?

 

[samson533]

your statement is invalidated in that facetime uses data.

what does it matter how someone reaches their data limit and then pays for overages?

Let the overage fee be their punishment for running their mouth (loudly) in public while looking at their phone. (thankfully the Nextel *breeeeep* is a thing of the past lol)

the days of the unlimited plan option are long gone, only the grandfathered accounts have it and those savvy enough to put a plan on a dumbphone then switch to a smartphone.

The only people that are truly complaining about this have the grandfathered unlimited plans. I agree with you otherwise. But in that case, if you take the time to do the math, the new mobile share plans are a better value (esp. if you have multiple devices).

 

[GSPice]

Veruca Salt is English.

This post is full of all sorts of win

 

[hirshnoc]

I think you're reading too much into it. There is no argument for "nationalization / socialism / communism," the statement was explaining how the 'CURRENT' US free market system (I should have clarified that, but I've been upset about this issue since ATT released the statement) allows these companies to set rules which our system has allowed us to fight with the regulations that in some cases, have intelligently been put in place. If a company like ATT knows it has an advantage such as data speed and simul talk/data, how can they use that leverage to alienate a huge percentage of their customers who use iPhone with iSight by forcing them to buy a plan that has nothing to do with the core functionality of the feature offered. I'm saying that what's currently set allows the company to do whatever it wants and impose strict punishment on those who don't agree (incredibly high early termination fees if you don't like your company). Is it good for the consumer? Really, only they can decide that. We've always had a recourse and hopefully this lawsuit can solve this.

In one well thought out statement you bolstered the free market argument. The free market is there to make choices good or bad... Your part in the matter is to buy it or not. And the Legal sector is there to make sure your freedoms are taken away / discriminated against.... The only issue with the system is the corruption of people. Which is inherent even in your presumed alternative of nationalization / socialism / communism et al. I'd rather live in a society (knowing corruption exists in places) where I can become as middle class or as rich as I want to be than one where all are middle / lower class except the government.

 

[janderson0719]

Apple must also be sick of AT&T since they limit iPhone functionality for no good reason.

That's cute that you really think Apple cares

 

[Windlasher]

The AT&T we all know today is not the same company from 30 years ago.
It's AT&T in name only for the most part.
Deregulation worked in the short term, but what it created was the mess we're in now.
Two heavy hitters (VZW and AT&T) and the rest.
Rural customers are still screwed because the regional carriers cannot spread the costs out like the bigger companies can. Basically with AT&T and Verizon, the urban customers subsidize some of the costs for rural customers.

Smaller carriers do not have the diversity in customer base to compete with the big two.
Sprint and T-Mobile are the only two with any chance and they've not made much headway in the last 5 years.
Sprint's trying, but T-Mobile actually looks like they enjoy the role they're in at the moment.
Making the best of their situation.

So I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "this needs to happen again" as the circumstances are completely different.

I disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion. We are going backwards not forward.

Did I forget to mention that I worked for ATT back then and I remember the BS they used to pull. I also jumped ship for a while to Pioneer Teletechnologies which was bought by MCI/Worldcom for a while.

Remember all the phone calls trying to get you to switch?

Yeah (sadly) I helped them do that.

Same BS. It was profits above all else then, and it is now.

How about providing decent service and not nickel and dimming people to death?

Take Cable:

There are millions of people who can't/won't pay $100 per month to watch the 10 channels they actually like.

If the cable companies figured out a way to charge $25 for those 10 channels, they would gain millions of customers overnight. But they won't?

There are ways to do things better.

 

[Dwalls90]

YES.

Where is the "Love" button for this?

 

[cvaldes]

Veruca Salt is also known as a GIANT cry baby when she doesn't get what she wants.

Yes, I realize that. However, the argument was pointed toward an alleged American entitlement syndrome so the use of an English storybook character was distinct off.

A more accurate illustration would have been a photograph of an American crybaby.

Like Terrell Owens. Or Chad Ochocinco (or whatever he's called now).

 

[los318]

The only people that are truly complaining about this have the grandfathered unlimited plans. I agree with you otherwise. But in that case, if you take the time to do the math, the new mobile share plans are a better value (esp. if you have multiple devices).

The new Mobile Share plans are not a better value for some. I have two iPhones + unlimited data on both plus an extra line just for the kids (no data, just voice and text). I would have been charged $20 and that was including my discount. I took the time to call Verizon and AT&T. The only way to keep the pricing the same or even close was to stay.

 

[tacobandit]

Then perhaps they should've thought a little further ahead than the next quarter before deciding to offer it. The march of technology is not the consumers' problem to deal with. AT&T offered an unlimited plan. Consumers who purchased it are entitled to receive it. AT&T's problem- end of story.

AT&T has publicly stated the regret having ever offered it. Not because it's legally difficult to get out of (it's not, just wait 2 years) - but because it's difficult to get out of from a PR perspective. This latest spat over FaceTime illustrates just how difficult that is.

Verizon is playing it so much better - but they have less at stake - far fewer grandfathered unlimiteds.

 

[pittpanthersfan]

If AT&T is allowed to squash FaceTime over cellular, what's to keep them from coming for iMessage next?

 

[Dwalls90]

If they lose, they'll probably pass the cost onto us, like always. AT&T continues to pass these intolerable acts, and that didn't work out too well for the British.

I hope to see their downfall in my lifetime. But they're still the only company that is decent in my area.

There is no cost to pass on. Data is data. If you use more, you pay for it.

Period. That's the issue of the debate.

 

[Meandmunch]

Data is data.

I have never understood discriminating between kinds of data whether it's voice, video, web, text messages, it's all ones and zeros.

I pay to access your network, how I want to burn up that 5GBs is up to me.

 

[Windlasher]

ATT plans are still cheaper, and they still have rollover minutes, and I still have unlimited data. Just can't see how leaving would be worth it. My signal is just fine. No better or worse than Verizon here. If I was a traveling salesman maybe.

When ATT bought Cingular, I lost all my roll over minutes. Know why? Because I had about a billion of them, and ATT wanted to recharge me for them.