They've been AGP...
...since just before Macs. Apple switched to AGP a little after AGP2x came out.
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ATI Radeon 8000 PRO and 9700
- Thread starter arn
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I would still like to see some concrete evidence that an 8x agp card will work in a 2x AGP slot. I have a sawtooth I want to max out while I'm waiting for a real next gen tower from apple.
Even if it did work in a 2x AGP slot, I would wonder if ATI would have the drivers ready. I would already have an 8500, if it were not for the drivers breaking with the 10.1.5 upgrade, which I had done the night before I was considering buying the radeon 8500.
If the 9000 card will work in my sawtooth, thats okay too. But I may not see any more performance than if I had a 8500. I can't find the 8500s locally, and I don't llike to mail order hardware, in case there IS a driver issue, its a bigger hassle to return.
Even if it did work in a 2x AGP slot, I would wonder if ATI would have the drivers ready. I would already have an 8500, if it were not for the drivers breaking with the 10.1.5 upgrade, which I had done the night before I was considering buying the radeon 8500.
If the 9000 card will work in my sawtooth, thats okay too. But I may not see any more performance than if I had a 8500. I can't find the 8500s locally, and I don't llike to mail order hardware, in case there IS a driver issue, its a bigger hassle to return.
Hey cooter, have you even looked for a driver from ATI to run under OS X??? I just did a easy search, and wouldn't you know, there IS a driver that calls out "This driver is designed for use with Mac OS X version 10.1 to 10.1.5."
See for yourself right here.
BTW, cards that list 4x AGP as an interface DO work quite well on a 2x AGP slot. Putting the 8500 Mac edition into your sawtooth will give it a serious graphics power boost.
See for yourself right here.
BTW, cards that list 4x AGP as an interface DO work quite well on a 2x AGP slot. Putting the 8500 Mac edition into your sawtooth will give it a serious graphics power boost.
I can see the GeForce4 MX being dropped from the G4 lineup and replaced with the Radeon 9000. This might be why we're waiting on the towers.
Think about it, for BTO options what we've got now is this :
Radeon 7500 : 32Mb, ADC, VGA
GeForce4 MX : 64Mb, ADC, VGA
GeForce4 Ti : 128Mb, ADC, DVI, VGA - DVI adapter
How much better would it be if it was like this :
Radeon 7500 : 32Mb, ADC, VGA
Radeon 9000 : 64Mb, ADC, DVI, VGA - DVI adapter
GeForce4 Ti : 128Mb, ADC, DVI, VGA - DVI adapter
It would make a lot more sense for people who want to add a second display either at time of purchase or at a later date if they offered a mid range graphics card that could connect to 2 ADC monitors but still work with VGA and 1 ADC monitor if that's what you want to do.
Infact wouldn't it be better, given the fact that the Radeon 9000 is likely to be the replacement for the Radeon 7500 in Ati's range that we have the Radeon 9000 as standard on all models apart from the high end with both a GeForce4 Ti and Radeon 8500 as a BTO option on the mid range and low end ?
Think about it, for BTO options what we've got now is this :
Radeon 7500 : 32Mb, ADC, VGA
GeForce4 MX : 64Mb, ADC, VGA
GeForce4 Ti : 128Mb, ADC, DVI, VGA - DVI adapter
How much better would it be if it was like this :
Radeon 7500 : 32Mb, ADC, VGA
Radeon 9000 : 64Mb, ADC, DVI, VGA - DVI adapter
GeForce4 Ti : 128Mb, ADC, DVI, VGA - DVI adapter
It would make a lot more sense for people who want to add a second display either at time of purchase or at a later date if they offered a mid range graphics card that could connect to 2 ADC monitors but still work with VGA and 1 ADC monitor if that's what you want to do.
Infact wouldn't it be better, given the fact that the Radeon 9000 is likely to be the replacement for the Radeon 7500 in Ati's range that we have the Radeon 9000 as standard on all models apart from the high end with both a GeForce4 Ti and Radeon 8500 as a BTO option on the mid range and low end ?
Thanks for the URL! But my statement was about TIMELY attention to those matters. It really wasn't the driver that broke with 10.1.5, it was its installer a problem that they had with 10.1.4. They patched the installer once to get it to work with 10.1.4. They had to patch it again for 10.1.5. The patch wasn't ready when I had the disposable income on hand. Guess who lost a sale?
Its not like they were unaware that 10.1.5 was coming out and they could have beta tested the installer, or updated their info page....
BE nice to developers. I recall MacPlay claiming that they had AvP running fine on their 10.1 seeds, but it didn't work on GM. Also not as if problems can be solved instantly. For the record I did get a Radeon8500 for my G4 500 (AGP 2x) and it kicks butt. As for 2D vs 3D- in 10.1.5 you will see 3D run faster (a lot faster if you still have the 16MB Rage 128). But since we have slow CPUs you will still get a hit from high-polygon scenes. On the other hand things completely GPU-based (textures, resolution) will run flawlessly, as the 8500's pipeline is ridiculously powerful. In other words, don't expect huge FPS boosts (there is a good deal more, but not huge), but you CAN expect to get those EXACT fps rates at maximum quality. As for AGP 8x, I'm sure it works in AGP2x slots, because AGP works just like SDRAM, syncing it with your bus speed. As for drivers, the 9700 will ship most likely with all the featurs in it (if you're on Jaguar), and if not it will have no less than: TRUform, FSAA, TC&L, and Pixel Shaders generation 1. I talked to the ATi guys, which is how I know.
MasterX, Good to hear about info from ATI's mouth.
I have been a HUGE fan of ATI for ages now. So much, that I refuse to purchase any other video card. They have ALWAYS done right by me in both Mac's and peecee's. I had already decided that I would be getting a new video card for my game pc, and was hoping that ATI would stand and deliver for me. I was going to look at the nVidia chipset, but now I'm not. Around the end of this year, I will be getting a Radeon 9700, and really expect it to kick some serious ass.
BTW, the game pc has a 4x AGP slot, so I shouldn't have any issue there. Then again, if I need to, I will replace the motherboard to get an 8x AGP slot. It IS a game system after all..
I have been a HUGE fan of ATI for ages now. So much, that I refuse to purchase any other video card. They have ALWAYS done right by me in both Mac's and peecee's. I had already decided that I would be getting a new video card for my game pc, and was hoping that ATI would stand and deliver for me. I was going to look at the nVidia chipset, but now I'm not. Around the end of this year, I will be getting a Radeon 9700, and really expect it to kick some serious ass.
BTW, the game pc has a 4x AGP slot, so I shouldn't have any issue there. Then again, if I need to, I will replace the motherboard to get an 8x AGP slot.
It IS a game system after all.. Yeah, at the worst the 9700 would only work in 4x. NO ONE is dumb enough to x out that many systems. Hell even OSX can run on a 3 year old computer. I'd like to stress how awesome it is that all the 9700 features CAN (and therefor WILL) be put into the Jaguar drivers. Looks like OpenGL in Jaguar has matured to it's fullest. 10% faster, 5 more features supported, full (and up to date) OpenGL spec compliance for the 1.2 revision. Mac gaming is going to rock the PC world in under 18 months. Ever notice how a mac only trails by 50fps (150 vs 200) and yet is about 1/2 the MHz? So once apple gets closer in Mhz, and more games (probably OMNIgroup ones) get threaded you will see performance incomprehensible in XP. Like Giants for example. Except faster, and with a better render. I can't wait.
It's good to be the king.
It's good to be the king.
ATI Radeon 9700
<html> <body> <text size="3"> </body> </html> yea yea everyone is saying oooo ooo ATI is gonna rule the video card world ARE YOU GUYS STOOOPPID? What about Nvidia with The Geforce5? or the Video card that apple is making with Nvidia? Geez dont you realise that The Geforce 4 Ti4600 is still better than it when the Geforce 5 Ti Comes out with 256MB of Video Ram and who knows how many Billions more polygons per second the Geforce 5 Ti will support? *smacks every singel Uber Male Mac USer and Laughs*
<html> <body> <text size="3"> </body> </html> yea yea everyone is saying oooo ooo ATI is gonna rule the video card world ARE YOU GUYS STOOOPPID? What about Nvidia with The Geforce5? or the Video card that apple is making with Nvidia? Geez dont you realise that The Geforce 4 Ti4600 is still better than it when the Geforce 5 Ti Comes out with 256MB of Video Ram and who knows how many Billions more polygons per second the Geforce 5 Ti will support? *smacks every singel Uber Male Mac USer and Laughs*
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OR DID IT OCCUR TO YOU...
that only ATi is making serious headway with Apple into the land of 4rd generation 3D graphics support. Let's review-
1st hardware 3D (Rage/GeForce). Basic polygon and texturing support.
2nd Generation (Radeon/GeForce2). Hardware TC&L. 3D FSAA.
3rd Generation (Radeon8500/GeForce3). 2nd generation hardware TC&L, FSAA with no FPS hit, quad texture pipes etc. Programable pixel shaders.
4th generatio (Radeon9700/GeForce4Ti/Parhellia). 3rd generation geometry, 2nd generation pixel shaders, AGP8, and so on.
I'm shure this isn't complete or even all accurate, especially seeing as ATi and nVidia's update schedules are opposite (Radeon beats GF2not GF3, 8500 beats GF3 not GF4, 9700 beats GF4, not GF5). But you can look at the drivers. Right now nVidia is working on getting what i refer to as 2nd Generation features. ATi is going to have 3rd generation when Jaguar supports it, and 4th generation when they finish working on the card/drivers. So even when your Apple card/GeForce5 comes out my 8500 will be running pixel shaders and TRUform while you curse at your lack of FSAA. Although to be fair I'm sure Apple would make drivers so complete it would put ATi to shame. But i don't see an Apple card for consumers in the pipe so it's a moot point. Expect a GeForce5 WAY before anything with an Apple logo.
My two cents. Read PA.
that only ATi is making serious headway with Apple into the land of 4rd generation 3D graphics support. Let's review-
1st hardware 3D (Rage/GeForce). Basic polygon and texturing support.
2nd Generation (Radeon/GeForce2). Hardware TC&L. 3D FSAA.
3rd Generation (Radeon8500/GeForce3). 2nd generation hardware TC&L, FSAA with no FPS hit, quad texture pipes etc. Programable pixel shaders.
4th generatio (Radeon9700/GeForce4Ti/Parhellia). 3rd generation geometry, 2nd generation pixel shaders, AGP8, and so on.
I'm shure this isn't complete or even all accurate, especially seeing as ATi and nVidia's update schedules are opposite (Radeon beats GF2not GF3, 8500 beats GF3 not GF4, 9700 beats GF4, not GF5). But you can look at the drivers. Right now nVidia is working on getting what i refer to as 2nd Generation features. ATi is going to have 3rd generation when Jaguar supports it, and 4th generation when they finish working on the card/drivers. So even when your Apple card/GeForce5 comes out my 8500 will be running pixel shaders and TRUform while you curse at your lack of FSAA. Although to be fair I'm sure Apple would make drivers so complete it would put ATi to shame. But i don't see an Apple card for consumers in the pipe so it's a moot point. Expect a GeForce5 WAY before anything with an Apple logo.
My two cents. Read PA.
Re: Re: ATI Radeon 9700
Fatallity, Row-dog style.... (he just made you his biatch, fool )
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Wow...nice use of HTML...
Fatallity, Row-dog style.... (he just made you his biatch, fool
)
As long time readers will know I almost never use HTML, but unless i'm going crazy sometime around June didn't they add the buttons that let me do this and this and this and
this?
Maybe i'm just crazy. Oh and the preview reply button...
Code:
this andMaybe i'm just crazy. Oh and the preview reply button...
macrumors rule of thumb. If you're trying to lay down the smack your boat had better be water tight, bulletproof, and not running Windows.
Heh...glad you all enjoyed that one.
Hopefully we scared 'em off for good.
PS. MasterX, "dowen"?...tsk, tsk, tsk.
Hopefully we scared 'em off for good.
PS. MasterX, "dowen"?...tsk, tsk, tsk.
yea I know I was made that boi's biiiatch
yea I am going a little ****ing insane so sue me and yes the Geforce 5 is still better than ATI will ever make (until the Radeon 10000?) but the point is that I am not wrong and you are hahahahahahahahaahahaha
yea I am going a little ****ing insane so sue me and yes the Geforce 5 is still better than ATI will ever make (until the Radeon 10000?) but the point is that I am not wrong and you are hahahahahahahahaahahaha