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I can tell you that internally the only reason I've heard at Apple so far is "So it has storage years down the road." At that point I'll buy a new model as owning the current 64GB will be like owning a 16GB iPhone 4 now. Storage on an old device that doesn't support the latest.

That would make a degree of sense, although unlike people such as yourself and I, who will upgrade to new models regularly. There will be people who keep theirs for much longer.

Then there's the factor of, when I upgrade and someone else inherits my old model, it's life continues. During which time Apple will likely increase the maximum initial download size for apps above the current 200 limit, just as the did on iPhone. That along with a proliferation of new apps could potentially have someone using more storage than the 32GB model has. Not that the second owner is a concern for most, but being the nice, generous chap that I am mine usually get donated to family and friends so there's a part of me that likes to know they'll get a good life span out of it.

I still maintain its always better to have more space that you may not need, than less than you do need.

But, even saying that, the 32 is still a good buy and if the time comes when you have filled it up with apps and goodness knows what down the road, it's nothing that s bit of app management won't fix. Just delete all of the old stuff you don't use. Less convenient, but just as effective.
 
That would make a degree of sense, although unlike people such as yourself and I, who will upgrade to new models regularly. There will be people who keep theirs for much longer.

Then there's the factor of, when I upgrade and someone else inherits my old model, it's life continues. During which time Apple will likely increase the maximum initial download size for apps above the current 200 limit, just as the did on iPhone. That along with a proliferation of new apps could potentially have someone using more storage than the 32GB model has. Not that the second owner is a concern for most, but being the nice, generous chap that I am mine usually get donated to family and friends so there's a part of me that likes to know they'll get a good life span out of it.

The main counter to that is that storage won't likely be the life continuation problem, but rather the latest OS updates not coming to an old model and/or the old model being DOG slow and new apps (or even just updates to existing apps) not supporting the old models (due to OS, hardware speed or capabilities, API capabilities, etc)

iPad 1 comes to mind among some other examples
 
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It's too early for me to tell. I'll sit on it for a couple of months.

I can't foresee how many apps I'll be interested in having. It'll probably be more than I suspect. It's also not clear to me what media can be stored locally.
 
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The main counter to that is that storage won't likely be the life continuation problem, but rather the latest OS updates not coming to an old model and/or the old model being DOG slow and new apps (or even just updates to existing apps) not supporting the old models (due to OS, hardware speed or capabilities, API capabilities, etc)

iPad 1 comes to mind among some other examples

Aye, that's a definite possibility, actually, that's a definite at some point. Although the A8 and 2GB ram should see it through a fair few updates.

The other thing of course is just how much people install. I mean, with my iPhone I've got over 30GB of games and apps installed so far. Historically with my iOS devices that number grows quite a bit.

Even if an app, or game, were to use no more than the 200 initial limit, that gives you the potential for 160 apps. Take out a couple of gig that the system uses. Then factor in that apps you download, especially if you download games, cache files onto the system for an indeterminate amount of time before being purged by the os. It all mounts up. So that number of 160 apps, in reality is significantly lower.

That may not be an issue for the majority of folk, but some of us will download a lot of apps, so that space becomes all the more precious.
 
Aye, that's a definite possibility, actually, that's a definite at some point. Although the A8 and 2GB ram should see it through a fair few updates.

The other thing of course is just how much people install. I mean, with my iPhone I've got over 30GB of games and apps installed so far. Historically with my iOS devices that number grows quite a bit.

Even if an app, or game, were to use no more than the 200 initial limit, that gives you the potential for 160 apps. Take out a couple of gig that the system uses. Then factor in that apps you download, especially if you download games, cache files onto the system for an indeterminate amount of time before being purged by the os. It all mounts up. So that number of 160 apps, in reality is significantly lower.

That may not be an issue for the majority of folk, but some of us will download a lot of apps, so that space becomes all the more precious.

But will the usage pattern (loads and loads of apps) be even remotely similar for a device that's connected to a TV?

I'm with you on my phone, but I'm having trouble even dreaming up (or desiring) 100's of apps on my TV
 
32. As others said, I stream everything and games are limited in size. I can't see myself storing enough games to fill the 32gb, and I have no problem deleting games after I complete them.
 
But will the usage pattern (loads and loads of apps) be even remotely similar for a device that's connected to a TV?

I'm with you on my phone, but I'm having trouble even dreaming up (or desiring) 100's of apps on my TV


See I'm entirely certain that I will be installing tons of stuff. There will be all of the media apps and suchlike, they won't take much space.

But when it comes to games, I'll download loads. There will be plenty I want for me, then I'll also get some "social" ones for when there's a crowd of us having a drink. There will also likely be a mountain of them for when my niece and nephew visit. They love to play with my collection of consoles and this will be just another different one to them for us to play games on together.

So it all mounts up. But like I said earlier, it's nothing that can't be managed. After all, I've currently only got the 32GB one and unless I decide to keep that just for development and buy another one for the living room (which is more than likely and that'll be a 64GB,) that's what I'll stick with for now.
 
See I'm entirely certain that I will be installing tons of stuff. There will be all of the media apps and suchlike, they won't take much space.

But when it comes to games, I'll download loads. There will be plenty I want for me, then I'll also get some "social" ones for when there's a crowd of us having a drink. There will also likely be a mountain of them for when my niece and nephew visit. They love to play with my collection of consoles and this will be just another different one to them for us to play games on together.

So it all mounts up. But like I said earlier, it's nothing that can't be managed. After all, I've currently only got the 32GB one and unless I decide to keep that just for development and buy another one for the living room (which is more than likely and that'll be a 64GB,) that's what I'll stick with for now.

I hear ya' - Games would seem to be the x-factor.

I was really excited about games until Apple decided to require them all to play down to the least common controller denominator of the packed in remote. Lots of internet dev chat about that, but ultimately that sort of forced dumbing down ends up prohibiting serious 3rd party game devs in all likelihood.

Did I think ATV4 could replace my PS4? Probably not - But I was hoping it would get closer by at least allowing a dev to restrict a given game release to requiring a more sophisticated controller.

That said - The one type of game I AM still excited about is emulators (might have to side load, but that's fine). But those games don't take much storage space anyhow.

NHL 94, Super Tennis, Wave Race and Mario coming soon to my Apple TV! :)
 
I hear ya' - Games would seem to be the x-factor.

I was really excited about games until Apple decided to require them all to play down to the least common controller denominator of the packed in remote. Lots of internet dev chat about that, but ultimately that sort of forced dumbing down ends up prohibiting serious 3rd party game devs in all likelihood.

Did I think ATV4 could replace my PS4? Probably not - But I was hoping it would get closer by at least allowing a dev to restrict a given game release to requiring a more sophisticated controller.



Im with you there, it's never going to replace any of my consoles, not even the retro ones :D

But the whole controller thing, I don't think it's as big an issue as some people make out. It's going to require some intelligently thought out control schemes. But it's definitely doable.

For one, it's actually a pretty good basic controller stand-in. I've had no problems with it functioning as a basic controller for the game I'm working on just now, which doesn't require a complex set-up, many games won't need a complex set-up.

But I know what you mean regarding more complex games, however the only limitation Apple is actually enforcing is basic control and it's actually fairly easy to work around.

For example, let's say a fps, you use the Siri remote pad for movement, it's analogue and accurate. You use the motion sensors for aiming and then you have a couple of buttons. Shoot and crouch/jump whatever.
That set-up allows the game to be played and meets Apples requirements.

Meanwhile you offer a proper, expanded set-up, for those of us who buy controllers. We get analog sticks for moving and aiming and a horde of buttons and triggers for shoot, reload, crouch, jump, switching weapons and so on.
 
@TrueBlou :
Hope you're right. No signs yet of any more major studios even considering more full fledged games for the ATV4 yet though. Maybe in time, but I'm skeptical.

The mental pricing barriers are also a problem vs console game/app pricing.

Realistically, it is tough to imagine any game dev putting forth the resources to make a semi-console equivalent port of a game if they have no way to know the install base that actually has a required more complex controller.

Apple could have done this by making ATV4 Streamer ($99) and ATV4 Gamer ($199 w/ controller included) -- or something similar.
 
I can tell you that internally the only reason I've heard at Apple so far is "So it has storage years down the road." At that point I'll buy a new model as owning the current 64GB will be like owning a 16GB iPhone 4 now. Storage on an old device that doesn't support the latest.

Great point and absolutely true. It would be like owning a 64GB iPad 1 today. Sure you have the space but it runs slow as molasses and lost iOS support years ago. Makes me feel better going for the 32GB model since I'll likely upgrade to a 4K model a few years down the line.
 
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@turbineseaplane

It's early days, I'm cautiously optimistic for its future. I mean clearly it's not even in the same ballpark power wise as the current crop of consoles. But even looking at some of the games for iPhone 6, there's a lot of good ones visually and creatively. It doesn't take much to get them ported over to Apple TV, I got the engine for mine ported over and running in a couple of hours.

So there's a good catalogue of games already out there that could be easily brought across for developers to test the waters. It would be nice if they ditched any and all in app purchase style crap and just did reasonably priced full games, but we'll see.

In the end it really all boils down to us as consumers. If the Apple TV sells in significant numbers, the games will follow. No one is daft enough to pass up the opportunity to make money.

Oh, and just as a side note. Although you won't see it in the App Store. Emulation on the Apple TV is good so far. Snes, Genesis, NES, Game Boy, Master System and the like are good.
 
@turbineseaplane

It's early days, I'm cautiously optimistic for its future. I mean clearly it's not even in the same ballpark power wise as the current crop of consoles. But even looking at some of the games for iPhone 6, there's a lot of good ones visually and creatively. It doesn't take much to get them ported over to Apple TV, I got the engine for mine ported over and running in a couple of hours.

So there's a good catalogue of games already out there that could be easily brought across for developers to test the waters. It would be nice if they ditched any and all in app purchase style crap and just did reasonably priced full games, but we'll see.

In the end it really all boils down to us as consumers. If the Apple TV sells in significant numbers, the games will follow. No one is daft enough to pass up the opportunity to make money.

Do you think they didn't make a cheaper version without the Siri remote because they know that most people would just buy that?

The entry pricing sure is steep vs a Fire stick or ChromeCast, which is really not going to help adoption get wider than the existing ATV user base.

If they made a $59 ATV Stick that's basically a Gen 3 and primarily for AirPlaying, that's likely the only device I'd even buy.
 
Do you think they didn't make a cheaper version without the Siri remote because they know that most people would just buy that? The entry pricing sure is steep vs a Fire stick or ChromeCast, which is really not going to help adoption get wider than the existing ATV user base


It's probably a safe bet, yeah.
I think Apple have a long term plan they want to play out with Apple TV and is definitely apps. They wanted that Siri remote to be a decent basic game controller because they know that eventually, games will be the dominant force in the AppStore.

Don't get me wrong, it's a much, much better way of interacting with a set top box than probably any other remote I've ever tried. Everything is so fluid, simple and natural it's a wonder no one has done it before.
 
It's probably a safe bet, yeah.
I think Apple have a long term plan they want to play out with Apple TV and is definitely apps. They wanted that Siri remote to be a decent basic game controller because they know that eventually, games will be the dominant force in the AppStore.

Don't get me wrong, it's a much, much better way of interacting with a set top box than probably any other remote I've ever tried. Everything is so fluid, simple and natural it's a wonder no one has done it before.


Yet they didn't make a Siri Pro remote or anything that could function as somewhat of a universal remote?
That's so frustrating. They really haven't "solved" any of the traditional TV problems yet (at least none of mine)

Still no OTT TV Service, no unified TV app login, still a remote spaghetti jumble, no antenna integration into the ATV4 (which many people use now, including myself).

:-(

I like my Apple TV and I'm trying to be excited....trying at least
 
I guess I just have this feeling, for my usage, that my $150 new ATV will arrive and I will quickly say "the icons jiggle, I don't use or like Siri much, I don't care about voice search, remotes are still all over the table and the old one does Airplay just fine".

Am I crazy? (could be! hah)
 
I guess I just have this feeling, for my usage, that my $150 new ATV will arrive and I will quickly say "the icons jiggle, I don't use or like Siri much, I don't care about voice search, remotes are still all over the table and the old one does Airplay just fine".

Am I crazy? (could be! hah)


Oh dear, lol, hopefully you'll find it surprises you more than you thought. I didn't think I'd be bothered for Siri, but even in its limited capacity so far, I've actually found myself using it far more than I expected. I'm really looking forward to the full os getting released so I can use Siri more.

The remotes issue doesn't bother me, I've got a harmony that controls everything (including the new Apple TV, although, why would you) so it's only one more remote. And as it can control volume it's the only one I'll be using when I'm using the ATV.

It's the AppStore I'm really looking forward to the most. Can't wait to see what it brings us.
 
A 64GB model would hold like 30 minutes of 4K content lol. That's pretending the OS takes up no room.

True but I'm not looking to save video on it. Just not spend the money now for something that may be obsolete or moved to a bedroom in a year or so.
 
How is it shameful?

The whole 16gb iPhone routine is something you can peruse for lots of parallels, but suffice to say that Apple, especially on this particular product, should likely have just settled on a memory size that's great for all and simply sold "the new Apple TV".

As it is, it's nothing but ambiguity about "what to get" and we all have basically no real hard information about "which we should be getting and why" (other than speculation) and thus many will default to "more storage" - i.e. more profit for a feature that's likely a throwaway for most all buyers (not people reading this forum).

Apple knows what they are doing and I'd argue on this particular product, choosing one tier and that's it would have been better for consumers.

Apple used to be a LOT better on making product line choices that were simply "great" with a little a variation where needed for individual choices and needs. They've turned very much into a nickel and dime operation with every line getting countless upsell scenarios for features that probably aren't needed (or at worst the buyer isn't sure). And then when it's really awful you have stuff like the latest 5k iMac that they actually had the balls to ship with an absolute dogs**t 5400 rpm hard drive in it, simply to drive upsell.

Just because it makes more money doesn't make it good a decision, especially with a CEO so obsessed with customer satisfaction metrics. I'm in the camp of expecting better from Apple personally.
 
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Any idea what you think will make you "tight on space"?
I'm honestly trying to figure out what could even do it?

Maybe iTunes movie rentals that are locally downloaded? (which I do absolutely none of personally)

You probably have a good idea by now but it is mostly down to games. I'm not a huge gamer but if large, impressive titles come out that interest me then that may make me reconsider but even just now on both my 64gb iPads, I have well over half the storage free. I'm sure 32gb will be sufficient but I'll certainly monitor things for the first couple of weeks.
 
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@turbineseaplane

It's early days, I'm cautiously optimistic for its future. I mean clearly it's not even in the same ballpark power wise as the current crop of consoles. But even looking at some of the games for iPhone 6, there's a lot of good ones visually and creatively. It doesn't take much to get them ported over to Apple TV, I got the engine for mine ported over and running in a couple of hours.

So there's a good catalogue of games already out there that could be easily brought across for developers to test the waters. It would be nice if they ditched any and all in app purchase style crap and just did reasonably priced full games, but we'll see.

In the end it really all boils down to us as consumers. If the Apple TV sells in significant numbers, the games will follow. No one is daft enough to pass up the opportunity to make money.

Oh, and just as a side note. Although you won't see it in the App Store. Emulation on the Apple TV is good so far. Snes, Genesis, NES, Game Boy, Master System and the like are good.

Never going to happen. Users don't like paying for stuff but if you can bring them in with a free game and then charge them for in-app purchases, they're far more willing to pay.

Additionally, unlike buying the game once, in-app purchases can happen over and over and over.

Apple and developers make far too much money on in-app purchases and users love them far too much for them to ever go away.
 
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