From AMEX
How much can I spend in an Apple Pay transaction?
- You can use your Card in Apple Pay for transactions up to the limit determined by the participating merchant for contactless payments.
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Australian Banks Denied Request to Negotiate Over Apple Pay
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From AMEX
How much can I spend in an Apple Pay transaction?
AMEX won't go down. They will adapt their merchant fees but milk it as long as they can in the meantime. I'v had the best customer service experience from AMEX ever. Anyway, your point is pointless. Apple Pay is limitless if you have the right card which Tap & Pay isn't. That's what we were talking about right.
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Actually I meant just a phone. I like slim **** in pockets. I don't even carry keys, just the key fob.
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I know of people who have bought cars on an AMEX Centurian card. If you're at a car dealer then their limit will be much higher than say an electronics retailer. Stop trying to be right all of the time. I HAVE USED MY CARD TO BUY A TV was my point. I cannot do that with VISA or MASTERCARD tap & pay.
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The discussion is about Apple Pay limits ... That's what AMEX's T&C states for contactless pay.
Are you for real? Who cares who sets the limits. You are missing my point because of your bravado. I can use Apple Tap & Pay to purchase large items is what I am saying. I am not limited to the $100 limit of Tap & Pay. That was the conversation and the point I was trying to make. Alpha male much?
I should hope so. You points had no merit. Ta ta
In this particular instance, it is only about the banks' greed being such that they are want to force Apple to compromise the entire premise of Apple Pay (that premise being security and ease of use) in order to use their system that draws many users because of it's ease of use and security for the sole purpose of not paying the tiny fee. Which is a riot considering the way the banks charge each others customers for using their ATM for withdrawals.
All I can say is this. When I use Apple pay, it is quicker and faster but more importantly more secure than tap & pay. The fact that I receive an instant PUSH notification from AMEX of the transaction with the amount I just spent is reassurance that no fraudulent activity took place. In fact I receive PUSH notifications whenever transactions occur on my AMEX card period and can check the last few transactions I made right from within the Wallet app. With the AMEX app I just see a list of all transactions made for the month. I find that very reassuring. When banks get to that level I will be happy because sifting through all the transactions in the bank app is a waste of time. Until then I try and force every transaction I make to Apple Pay which in turn uses my AMEX card.
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What a coincidence - A Commbank advert popped up as I scrolled through the comments...
I'm fed up with the Apple Pay situation in Australia. When it was launched, we had one of the highest penetrations of tap to pay in the world.
It's infuriating that I and many other Australians have had phones for nearly two years without once being able to use a piece of hardware that was a headline feature.
The Banks need to suck it up and take the hit to their massive bottom line. The Commonwealth bank recently announced record full year earnings of $9.5 billion AUD...
I'm fed up with the Apple Pay situation in Australia. When it was launched, we had one of the highest penetrations of tap to pay in the world.
It's infuriating that I and many other Australians have had phones for nearly two years without once being able to use a piece of hardware that was a headline feature.
The Banks need to suck it up and take the hit to their massive bottom line. The Commonwealth bank recently announced record full year earnings of $9.5 billion AUD...
What a coincidence - A Commbank advert popped up as I scrolled through the comments...
I'm fed up with the Apple Pay situation in Australia. When it was launched, we had one of the highest penetrations of tap to pay in the world.
It's infuriating that I and many other Australians have had phones for nearly two years without once being able to use a piece of hardware that was a headline feature.
The Banks need to suck it up and take the hit to their massive bottom line. The Commonwealth bank recently announced record full year earnings of $9.5 billion AUD...
Exactly. It's not like the Banks have been giving us a fair go and keeping their profits low to benefit it's members. May I remind people that our interest rates for a CC are in order of 12-20% when their cash rate from the reserve is almost zero. The banks are milking us dry and forcing their tech down our throats at a premium hit. Absolute leeches.
Aussie banks. Happy to hit you with every fee they can get away with to boost their bottom line. But ask them to pay a small fee for a service much better than anything they can offer and it's the end of the world.
And there it is summed up in a couple of lines. That's the reality of this whole thread.
Agreed, the banks a making billions and hate regulation and the government stepping in but along comes Apple and the want to band together and the government to step in an help them. The banks in this country want a closed system where they call the shots when it comes to all things banking. This is just like the Taxi industry trying to stop Uber from operating.
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Using the NFC for their own apps is not overly greedy, apple is just as greedy to deny them using it without having to go through them.
I like to check my balance before using my card each time, so I have the app open, it would be more convenient to me to just use the inbuilt payment.
Thats so true, but on the other hand why should they. It's really our fault as consumers, the vast majority stick with these banks despite them goughing us for all we are worth. A while ago I moved everything important over to ING, now they are a whole different ballgame of lack of fees and rewards, nothing like the big 4.
I'm still hanging onto an old ANZ account which I've planned to close for years now, that forces me to pay $55/year to be part of their 'rewards' program. Cant even opt out of it. And thats on top of monthly fees just to keep it open. I'm as guilty as anyone, we support the behaviour of the big 4, they have no insentive to give a little back when we dont vote as customers by going elsewhere.
ANZ arent being altruistic with ApplePay, they've surely done the sums and figured attracting new accounts offset the fees.
It's sad to read how banks are stuck in their own world all over the planet... If they wouldn't have been that greedy and afraid of new technology they would be in a way better situation now. They had enough time to just develop a stadardized payment API which can be used by 3rd parties for a minimal fee. Now banks are becoming irrelevant except for "storing" your money (can't argue with interest these days). That's the price they have to pay for their ignorance. Here, payment-transaction is none of their business. If it wasn't for EU law bank2bank transfers would still take days. How can it be this still takes more than a few minutes in the 21st century? Apple may be greedy as well, but they have a secure and more convenient solution -which in fact benefits everyone. If the banks are not open to competition as they fear losing a fraction of their revenue but instead forming a cartell, I hope they will be subject to regulation and forced to open up.
I heard of a couple of cases where thieves steal paywave cards, and before they are reported stolen have managed to spend $2000. This doesnt affect the customer (most times after they satisfy banks inquisitors) however this is common occurrence ApplePay prevents this happening. I bet the fraud rate via Applepay and Anz cards is minimal too nothing?
Wallet App --> Secure Element --> NFC --> terminal --> acquirer --> network --> token stores --> bank
Apple wrote a Wallet App. That's the UI part, allowing registration, selection and authentication.
Everything else from the Secure Element onward to the banks, is proprietary code written by the credit card companies and the other back end players -- code which emulates a purchase made with a contactless EMV card. For contactless payments, "Apple Pay" is just a marketing name slapped on top of EMV standards.
Thus any wallet UI app that you allowed, say from your own bank, could in theory use the same standard EMV code in the Secure Element onward without a change in protection.
Okay, then make the banks pay Apple for the one-time development cost to open up NFC. (*)
The trouble is, Apple wants to get paid for providing the device (owned by us), and no service during an actual transaction (actual payment services are done by everyone except Apple).
Demanding a fee for providing hardware (which they already made a profit on when they sold it), is as if a chip card manufacturer demanded that banks pay a fee to the card maker every time someone uses one of that manufacturer's cards.
(*) Although ironically, Apple didn't pay for the EMV backends that they use under Apple Pay.
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To be clear on this point and some others.
The ACCC (regulator) was invited.
The ACCC is supposed to ensure fair competition. For many competing banks to band together to negotiate as one could be seen as anti-competitive. Therefore they asked the ACCC for permission to negotiate as one.
IF the ACCC gives this approval, banks will try and negotiate as one.
The ACCC cannot force Apple to do anything.
It is so effortless to authenticate Apple Pay with touch-ID that I am okay doing for this any payment, no matter how small. Just whip out my phone, double-press the home button and scan. Proceed to get a notification informing me that my transaction has gone through and the amount charged to my account.
Things don't get any more seamless than that.
What's all that about?
Just hold the phone over the terminal with your finger on the home button and presto - NO press of the button required.
For some reason, when I do this, I occasionally experience problems where my transaction doesn't go through. I am not sure if it is a problem with the payment system or hardware or my own phone, but I have been experiencing a higher than expected error rate when paying this way.
The double-press method has been flawless so far by comparison, and so that is the mode I stick with.
I've been following this thread out of curiosity more than anything else, but the idea for Apple to open up NFC usage and banks use their own apps kind of scares me (bypassing the Wallet app and Apple Pay). I'm all for utilizing technology and making the most of it, but I also have seen some pretty terrible banking/credit card apps, and like that that portion is handed off to Apple's UI. It's sort of like the apps with QR codes or barcodes that don't have the option to export the pass to Wallet (formerly Passbook) - should be doable, but you can't summon it from the lock screen.
Now, I will admit to ignorance on Australian preferences and such, but I never check my available credit before an everyday purchase with my credit cards (I typically have an idea of what credit is available and may open the apps to view transactions and such, or reconcile the charges when the statement comes). Therefore, those are buried in a folder and I'll either summon the Wallet app from the home screen or the cards from the lock screen. I doubt Apple would let a third-party wake a phone via NFC to use some other app.
And, to be honest, I find it hard for anyone to force Apple to allow competitor NFC apps, as there are alternatives for both users and banks that don't want to go through Apple Pay: get an Android or Windows Phone and use your own app or use your physical card. There are plenty of things that aren't in the App Store even though Apple could or should let them. Besides, Discover sat out a whole year (no specific reason disclosed) and their support is still a little less than Amex, Visa, or MasterCard (not many apps support it in-app).
I do recognize that in Australia (and other parts of the world, too) payment systems are a bit more advanced than ours, so the fraction of a percent that Apple gets from the banks more than makes up for potential fraud in the US and they don't mind it. I am curious if that gets any other support for deployment and management behind-the-scenes, especially since there have been some small podunk banks and credit unions joining in with Apple Pay and I doubt their IT teams are doing all of that themselves.
Now, I will admit to ignorance on Australian preferences and such, but I never check my available credit before an everyday purchase with my credit cards (I typically have an idea of what credit is available and may open the apps to view transactions and such, or reconcile the charges when the statement comes). Therefore, those are buried in a folder and I'll either summon the Wallet app from the home screen or the cards from the lock screen. I doubt Apple would let a third-party wake a phone via NFC to use some other app.
And, to be honest, I find it hard for anyone to force Apple to allow competitor NFC apps, as there are alternatives for both users and banks that don't want to go through Apple Pay: get an Android or Windows Phone and use your own app or use your physical card. There are plenty of things that aren't in the App Store even though Apple could or should let them. Besides, Discover sat out a whole year (no specific reason disclosed) and their support is still a little less than Amex, Visa, or MasterCard (not many apps support it in-app).
I do recognize that in Australia (and other parts of the world, too) payment systems are a bit more advanced than ours, so the fraction of a percent that Apple gets from the banks more than makes up for potential fraud in the US and they don't mind it. I am curious if that gets any other support for deployment and management behind-the-scenes, especially since there have been some small podunk banks and credit unions joining in with Apple Pay and I doubt their IT teams are doing all of that themselves.
Every store in Australia accepts contactless payments. Not really that hard.
[doublepost=1471764621][/doublepost]Switched all accounts for me and my wife from NAB to ANZ and got at least four others to do the same. Let them both know that ApplePay was the reason for the switch.