Australian Regulators Targeting Apple Over '4G' Marketing Claims on New iPad

[tomsamson]

Good on the Aussies, i hope many countries´regulators do something similar.
I´m against nonsense regulations and lawsuits like the next guy, but in this case it is well deserved that Apple gets a nono or more for such actions.
Its not ok to sell something promoted as "4G" when it really doesn´t support the real 4G in most countries at all (No, HSPA and HSPA+ is not proper 4G at all, changing the labeling afterwards doesn´t just make it faster).
Apple, seemingly happy that that false advertising hasn´t caused any major complaints so far is also going ahead and changing the 3G display for the connection to 4G in most countries for the iPhone, too.
Sorry,but that´s just borderline fraud.

 

[ReanimationN]

Clarification- Telstra markets their LTE as 4G.

http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile-pho...nformation/4g/

So we have a situation where two companies are using fuzzy definitions for 4G, and one company is being singled out for not connecting to the other.

I'm on Apple's side this time.

PS: iPad 'new' has got download speeds on Telstra up to 30Mbps (real benchmarks).

Did you mean to say Telstra markets their HSPA+ as 4G? It's already clear they market LTE as 4G, but they don't market HSPA+ as 4G. That's clear in the site you linked to, they specifically say 4G devices will connect to LTE networks where available and will switch to 3G HSPA+ where LTE is not available.

If that's not what you meant, feel free to ignore me.

 

[Menel]

HSPA+ is not 4G nor is it marketed as 4G here. LTE technically isn't either but HSPA+ REALLY isn't.

Maybe you've been under a rock. But the international body ITU who regulates these technologies says HSPA+ is 4G.

Dunno who you are, except maybe forum troll, but there's no way you have the same credentials as the ITU.

 

[commander.data]

http://www.intomobile.com/2010/12/18/itu-reverses-its-decision-lte-wimax-and-hspa-are-now-4g/

In an about face, the International Telecommunications Union has expanded the term 4G to include WiMAX, LTE and HSPA+. Previously, the ITU had established WiMAX 2 and LTE-Advanced as the only networking technologies worthy of the 4G name.

LTE wasn't originally a "4G" technology either. The same ITU ruling that made LTE "4G" made HSPA+ "4G". So if Australia feels HSPA+ isn't 4G they should dismiss LTE too. Admittedly, this is a marketing complaint, but in terms of usability, while the iPad displays the 4G symbol for HSPA+ networks, LTE gets its own LTE symbol so Apple is trying to make the 2 technologies distinct.

 

[Kaibelf]

No.

The iPad cannot connect to 4G LTE networks in Australia due to incompatible frequencies.

It can connect to HSPA+ and DC-HSPA but these are not 4G.

HSPA+ is 4G depending on who you ask.

 

[TheBronx]

HSPA+ is 4G depending on who you ask.

Especially if you ask the people who decide what 4G actually is hehe

 

[Ubuntu]

Wirelessly posted

My TV says HD but I don't get HD channels I'm suing..

The world is full of greedy morons.

Because of idiots like these we need to put warnings on frozen pizzas DO NOT TAKE Pizza out of oven with bare hands.

Makes me thinks Australia is run by idiots now

Is your TV's HD tuner incompatible? Or do you just not have the HD service?

 

[Marcus-k]

Wirelessly posted

My TV says HD but I don't get HD channels I'm suing..

The world is full of greedy morons.

Because of idiots like these we need to put warnings on frozen pizzas DO NOT TAKE Pizza out of oven with bare hands.

Makes me thinks Australia is run by idiots now

You do get HD channels, you just have to buy them. The problem here is even though 4G is used in some countries, the iPad still doesn't work because of Apple using an American standard in frequencies instead of the one mostly used worldwide.

 

[Kaibelf]

Good on the Aussies, i hope many countries´regulators do something similar.
I´m against nonsense regulations and lawsuits like the next guy, but in this case it is well deserved that Apple gets a nono or more for such actions.
Its not ok to sell something promoted as "4G" when it really doesn´t support the real 4G in most countries at all (No, HSPA and HSPA+ is not proper 4G at all, changing the labeling afterwards doesn´t just make it faster).
Apple, seemingly happy that that false advertising hasn´t caused any major complaints so far is also going ahead and changing the 3G display for the connection to 4G in most countries for the iPhone, too.
Sorry,but that´s just borderline fraud.

Please present your credentials or stop lying.

 

[commander.data]

You do get HD channels, you just have to buy them. The problem here is even though 4G is used in some countries, the iPad still doesn't work because of Apple using an American standard in frequencies instead of the one mostly used worldwide.

I was under the impression that America and Canada are more advanced in deploying their LTE networks than the rest of the world so North American frequencies are currently the most common set of LTE frequencies. DC-HSPDA support was added because it's currently more popular than LTE in Europe for example.

 

[4nNtt]

Apple was the last to switch to using the term 4G for technologies that didn't cross the 100 megabit per second threshold. Technically, by the original 4G definition the current generation of LTE isn't 4G. Since 4G isn't actually a standard, they changed the definition of 4G to include slower specs so that first generation LTE could be called 4G. There just happens to be other technologies that have similar transmission speeds. Apple only changed their definition after everyone one else in the industry did. They fighting the wrong war. They should be trying to enforce a new standard that actually makes sense. The 4G advertising is kinda like when processors compared each other using megahertz even though it was not a good indicator of the actual speed of the processor.

 

[desertweasel]

this is not suing to show loss by consumers, Australia has some of the strongest truth in advertising laws in the world (which I too have fallen foul of) and this definitely seems to breach them.
It also does not work here in the UAE where the 4G frequencies are 1800 as well. They will have to bring a multi band version out to get around this soon or drop the ads.

 

[Kaibelf]

It's a legitimate complaint.

Here in Japan, the local carrier Softbank goes as far as advertising the LTE functionality and touting "super high speed wireless" in images throughout their website.

Only when you go to the detailed price plan page do they put a little asterisk next to "4G", with the following disclaimer:



Oh. Great. Thanks.

Weasley doesn't cut it. This is downright distortion.



irmongoose

It's not Apple's job to hold your hand and explain the failing of your local carrier. Seriously, it's as if no one outside of the US has ever heard of asking a question or using google before.

 

[Nicky G]

Several posters here have made the point clearly, but just to reiterate:

• Before ~2010, the first 4G cellular technology certified as such by the ITU (that's an international specification body, btw) was LTE Advanced. As of March 2012, there are ZERO LTE Advanced networks operating anywhere on the planet, outside of very very limited testing.

• Then the cellular carriers -- international carriers included -- decided they wanted the ITU to rebrand anything that represented a significant upgrade in speed from 3.5G as 4G. This took 3.75G/3.9G technologies such as HSPA+ and "normal" LTE, and rebranded them as 4G technologies.

• Was this all about marketing? Yes. Did the ITU cave in? Yes. However, the reality is, by today's standards, global standards at that, HSPA+ -- and LTE -- are called 4G, even though originally they were not considered such. REMEMBER -- the same ITU redefinition that branded HSPA+ as 4G proper ALSO rebranded LTE as 4G proper, so if you have a problem with HSPA+ being called 4G, you should just as equally have a problem with current LTE networks being described as 4G.

 

[d0vr]

Technically since they said "4G connects to fast networks around the world" and it didn't say Australia specifically I think they are in the clear.

You give too much credit to the masses.

This is fantastic, I was completely appalled that Apple marketed the 3rd gen iPad as 4G capable in Australia.

 

[4nNtt]

I was under the impression that America and Canada are more advanced in deploying their LTE networks than the rest of the world so North American frequencies are currently the most common set of LTE frequencies. DC-HSPDA support was added because it's currently more popular than LTE in Europe for example.

No. We have the least common frequencies. Probably because our airspace is too crowded. It is also difficult to phase out old frequency ranges or technologies here because the way the FCC works. If we are ahead because of deployment schedules, it will be short lived. Remember that LTE is really only in major metro areas right now. They may show greater 4G coverage, but it is really near-LTE speed 3G-class technologies. There continues to be backhaul problems in much of the US preventing upgrades. They are slowly upgrading towers, particularly in areas where AT&T or Verizon offer high speed internet service, but it is slow going. Historically many cell towers were just repeaters with no actual hardwired connection. That doesn't work well anymore with high speed data, but running fibre out to many towers is difficult.

 

[zoetmb]

After reading a bit about this I would have to agree with our Aussie cousins.
Its not that most carriers in the UK/Australia/New Zealand/Wherever dont offer 4G (although most dont) its that WHEN they do the new ipad still wont work on them.
The frequencies are different and it will never be physically capable of using 4G services in those countries. Ever.

So yes, 4G should be removed in those countries where it will simply never work.
Put it this way - if an Australian carrier DID start offering 4G services and someone bought a 4G ipad there, would they not be within their rights to complain when it didnt work?
"Oh we didnt mean YOUR 4G"

Well...they do say "connect to 4G networks around the world". But I do think it's misleading and there should at least be an asterisk with a disclaimer stating that it won't work in Australia. I'm not sure it warrants a lawsuit as much as a ruling (and perhaps a reasonable fine) that the advertising violates regulations and must be changed/clarified.

 

[commander.data]

No. We have the least common frequencies. Probably because our airspace is too crowded. It is also difficult to phase out old frequency ranges or technologies here because the way the FCC works. If we are ahead because of deployment schedules, it will be short lived. Remember that LTE is really only in major metro areas right now. They may show greater 4G coverage, but it is really near-LTE speed 3G-class technologies. There continues to be backhaul problems in much of the US preventing upgrades. They are slowly upgrading towers, particularly in areas where AT&T or Verizon offer high speed internet service, but it is slow going. Historically many cell towers were just repeaters with no actual hardwired connection. That doesn't work well anymore with high speed data, but running fibre out to many towers is difficult.

Good to know. It does fit with Apple's cellular adoption strategy though, deploying technologies when they are widespread and don't effect battery life. With LTE deployment more advanced in North America, initially adding support for it here first makes sense, although it does cause some confusion worldwide.

 

[Pressure]

Get a life! Seems these greedy lawyers are just looking for anything to go after Apple lately.

You know, while I was texting I misspelled a word and spell check didn't fix it. That was very embarrassing. It caused me mental stress. I think I'll call my lawyer.

You really have no clue, do you?

It isn't about lawyers or lawsuits. This is about false advertising or promising features which doesn't work outside the US in the rest of the world.

The same applies to Europe. The spectrum used for LTE/"4G" in Europe is 800Mhz, 1800Mhz and 2600Mhz. Despite this fact, the iPad is still advertised as a 4G device, even though it will never function in the rest of the world as a 4G enabled device.

 

[4nNtt]

You do get HD channels, you just have to buy them. The problem here is even though 4G is used in some countries, the iPad still doesn't work because of Apple using an American standard in frequencies instead of the one mostly used worldwide.

I think it is odd that they are not selling two variants, but maybe they feel the iPad will be obsolete by the time they get decent buildout in some markets. If you have HSPA+ or similar, you are unlikely to notice the difference anyway.

 

[tigres]

Hope they do the same with Siri.

Oh, that's right it's beta- but the ads sure say otherwise.

 

[Zunjine]

I think this is a rather open and shut case. If the governing body which decides what can and can't be called 4G says clearly that HSPA+ is 4G then the new iPad does run on 4G networks in Australia and most countries.

That australian networks don't use the term the way the governing body does is surely down to them?

 

[Saladinos]

This was bound to happen somewhere; I can't believe Apple still marketed the device as '4G' outside the US and Canada.

It may be technically correct in some places, taking the small print in to consideration; but even if it's not an outright lie, it's clearly disingenuous.

 

[SeattleMoose]

Adjust The Marketing

Apple should never take a "one size fits all" approach in how it markets its products. The world infrastructures are too different. Why "ask for it" from governments/lawyers/etc.? Instead....do a little research and work with marketing firms in each country to "fine tune" the pitch.

Seems pretty basic...

As far as the Apple Website, just post a list of "in" and "out" countries so people can determine their own particular compatibility straight away.

 

[bawbac]

People want to sue Apple for anything these days. We can bank on the fact that a lawsuit will come from this. This is just ridiculous Does that mean if someone buys an iPad and doesn't have a wifi network at home they can sue Apple too???

People are still renting blu-ray discs and wondering why they don't play in their DVD player.
Welcome to America