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Avie Tevanian Leaving Apple?

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Apr 12, 2001
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A SFGate blog reports that Apple has confirmed that Avie Tevanian will be leaving Apple at the end of March to "pursue other interests".

Avie Tevanian currently holds the position of Chief Software Technology Officer at Apple and was previously the vice president of Engineering at NeXT. Tevanian was one of the principal designers and engineers of the Mach operating system on which NEXTSTEP and subsequently Mac OS X were based.

Tevanian had previously been rumored to have been leaving Apple in 2001.
 

narco

macrumors 65816
Dec 9, 2003
1,155
0
California.
So what, now that the OS X transition is complete, there's no need for Avie? I wonder if this is a good move, or a bad move.

Fishes,
narco.
 
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WildCowboy

Administrator/Editor
Staff member
Jan 20, 2005
17,581
1,606
Saw this a bit earlier...a brilliant mind. Apple will be hard-pressed to find another visionary like Avie to lead OS development going forward. Obviously a lot of balls are already rolling and will keep users happy for a while, but they need someone to develop a cohesive plan for the future of the Mac OS.

But then again, maybe some new blood will lead to radical new ideas that could turn out great for users.
 
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goglamosh

macrumors member
Jul 7, 2002
89
0
With Avie gone, could we see the possiblity of a Linux based Mac OS in the future? Could get interesting.
 
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esaleris

macrumors 6502
Oct 18, 2005
315
3
Short the stock! Maybe. I dunno. I do remember when HP's Fionna (sp) left and the stock went up a couple of million dollars. Must feel good when your departure causes the company to increase in value 10%.
 
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LordJohnWhorfin

macrumors regular
May 28, 2002
165
36
About time...

Maybe now they'll finally be able to ditch the frickin Mach microkernel piece of crap, that Nazi Tevanian has been adamant must be a part of the OS even though it's a performance pit, all because it's his PhD project. He's no visionary, just a reasonably smart hardass who happened to be at the right place at the right time and profited handsomely for it. Watch OSX improve by leaps and bounds as the old guard finally gets kicked out. A bunch of these NeXT alumni seriously have their heads up their collective arses.
 
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cybermiguel

macrumors newbie
Jan 12, 2006
26
0
LordJohnWhorfin said:
Maybe now they'll finally be able to ditch the frickin Mach microkernel piece of crap, that Nazi Tevanian has been adamant must be a part of the OS even though it's a performance pit, all because it's his PhD project. He's no visionary, just a reasonably smart hardass who happened to be at the right place at the right time and profited handsomely for it. Watch OSX improve by leaps and bounds as the old guard finally gets kicked out. A bunch of these NeXT alumni seriously have their heads up their collective arses.

In fact, the monolithical kernel structure is old and obsolete and the only OS that uses it is Linux....well, there are certain Linux distros that use microkernel too!...

As you see, most modern OS use microkernels, for various reasons. I invite you to take a look at the BeOS development, QNX development (there are even some nuclear plants that works in an environment based in QNX) and other "modern" Operating Systems (I mean modern by using new concepts of kernel, not the 80s monolithical kernel) and you will know what i'm talking about.

Regards. ^^
 
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Undecided

macrumors 6502a
Mar 4, 2005
696
150
California
Macrumors said:
Tevanian was one of the principal designers and engineers of the Mach operating system on which NEXTSTEP and subsequently Mac OS X were based.

Well, I guess his leaving plays into the notion that Apple is moving from the Mac OS being based on Mach to being based on Windows.

Pretty wild.
 
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boncellis

macrumors 6502
Feb 9, 2006
474
0
Salt Lake City
What other interests, I wonder--you're already at one of the top computer companies in the world...

This seems strange to me, I suspect certain code words like "mutual decision" and "amicable" might be involved.

Just a feeling.
 
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Mechcozmo

macrumors 603
Jul 17, 2004
5,215
2
LordJohnWhorfin said:
Maybe now they'll finally be able to ditch the frickin Mach microkernel piece of crap, that Nazi Tevanian has been adamant must be a part of the OS even though it's a performance pit, all because it's his PhD project. He's no visionary, just a reasonably smart hardass who happened to be at the right place at the right time and profited handsomely for it. Watch OSX improve by leaps and bounds as the old guard finally gets kicked out. A bunch of these NeXT alumni seriously have their heads up their collective arses.

Could you elaborate, using coherent sentences and paragraphs? I'm interested, but you aren't exactly telling us in a very good style as to why you're correct, or even partially correct.

Personally, I think that NeXT is a great OS and its evolution into OS X is nothing less that wonderful for us.
 
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iCraig

macrumors newbie
Jan 12, 2005
17
0
Manchester, UK
This is not good news IMO.

Avie was and still is the driving force behind Mac OS X, and has a great legacy behind him at NeXT and Apple.

I'd be really sorry to see him go, if it is true.
 
Comment

Marlor

macrumors regular
Jun 21, 2005
223
32
cybermiguel said:
In fact, the monolithical kernel structure is old and obsolete and the only OS that uses it is Linux....well, there are certain Linux distros that use microkernel too!...

I assume you mean MkLinux? This isn't really a distro, but an experimental version of Linux that tries to host a Linux implementation on the Mach microkernel.

Many Unix variants (e.g. Solaris) stick with a monolithic kernel, and the use of modules on top of this allows for many of the advantages of microkernels, without the IPC-related performance issues that dog most microkernels.

Even XNU and Windows XP don't have true microkernels, they are "hybrid" kernels. For example, XNU has BSD kernel code in the kernel address space in order to cut down on the microkernel-related latency. In fact, to the "outside world", XNU appears as a monolithic kernel, due to its BSD layer.

There are definitely performance problems with OS X and its kernel. The biggest problem appears to be the fact that kernel-level threads cannot be used by userlevel programs. Also, Mach's fine-grained locking mechanisms are hidden beneath the BSD "monolithic kernel" layer. You can see the impact that the XNU kernel has on performance vs Linux in the (now infamous) graph here:

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2436&p=6

If Apple are going to have a "BSD layer", that essentially hides Mach, then they should just go all the way and use the BSD kernel. This would result in much better performance.
 
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mgauss

macrumors newbie
Mar 27, 2006
21
0
I think Avie is burned out

Working for Steve Jobs must be a 24 hour job. The intensity, the drive, the angst. I think a guy like Avie, that less than 9 years ago was happy making his $ 70K and is now a multi millionaire, is putting his life in perspective. Perhaps 5 or 10 years from now, after he realizes how boring it is to spend "quality time" with one's wife or kids he will come back. Hopefully he won't be a tired dinosaur by then.

In the meantime, Apple is making much more money from iPods than from computers. So the iPod people are being treated with kids gloves, they can do no wrong.

Avie is tired and jealous. He liked Apple better before the iPod. Apple can now hire better people and he sees those brains knocking on the door. He used to be the smartest they could afford, now he sees the new whipper snappers. He probably has no management skills, so basically his own success fired him...he got fired by himself. The pathetic Wozniak phenomenom. Hey at least he is rich now sipping champagne in the south of France.

He also might be wanting to be his own boss. And a miserable one he will be, an order taker is an order taker.
 
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boncellis

macrumors 6502
Feb 9, 2006
474
0
Salt Lake City
Marlor said:
...If Apple are going to have a "BSD layer", that essentially hides Mach, then they should just go all the way and use the BSD kernel. This would result in much better performance.

Just from what you cited I tend to agree. Does anyone else think the timing of this is odd? If Dr. Tevanian's departure is rumored for the end of this month, does that somehow correspond with the release of 10.5?

Could it be done already, or is it Dr. Tevanian's involvement that's done? Just curious.
 
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narco

macrumors 65816
Dec 9, 2003
1,155
0
California.
mgauss said:
In the meantime, Apple is making much more money from iPods than from computers. So the iPod people are being treated with kids gloves, they can do no wrong.

I read somewhere the other day that Mac sales still exceed iPod sales. Is this not true?

Fishes,
narco.
 
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bluebomberman

macrumors 6502a
Jan 9, 2005
919
0
Queens, NYC
There's a helluva lot of speculation, negativity, and Mach-kernel bashing based on incredibly limited info. The guy's probably worth millions by now; he doesn't need a valid reason to pack his bags and go.

Mayabe he's burnt out. Maybe he wants to join a Segway polo league. Maybe he wants to devote his time to philantropy. Maybe he's going to Microsoft. Whatever. As with all not-evil people moving on with their lives, I wish him the best regardless.

(And then I pray profusely that Mac OS X doesn't turn into a bloated, outdated, insecure, crappy OS.)
 
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