Bank of America Glitch Causes Apple Pay Users to Be Charged Twice for Purchases [Updated]

[Anim]

I'm glad to see it isn't an Apple Pay issue but the bank.

There was a TV program in the UK about it with the reporter saying many people are being charged twice and Apple this and Apple that. It was very damaging at the time.

I thought to myself that I would wait a few more months before I get the 6+ and things iron out. I want Apple Pay to work as handing over my credit card or watching the bored shop clerk stare at me while I type my pin in has always been a bug bear of mine. Even in local shops that you have been to for years makes you less secure.

 

[Gasu E.]

Um, no.

If what you said was true you wouldn't be able to test anything but the most trivial software.

If you identify all the edge cases and the corner cases then you can prove that a combination (or interaction) works by just testing one set of values, extrapolating to all values between the special cases.

There are also other techniques like probabilistic testing.

You are stating some factually true things, but this is beside my point. I am a software product manager, heavily involved in making sure our products have a good test plan. My post was trying to provide an intuitive explanation, to the layman, that there are diminishing returns on testing, and finding the last few problems are much more expensive to identify and weed out than the base. Note that I was responding to the guy who said "Apple needed to do a little more testing". It's not a little more; it's an order of magnitude more to find low-probability problems that may occur in the wild. Certainly there are methods to increase functional test coverage pre-GA, but they are in no way exhaustive.

Update: I'm sorry I took your response seriously. Your other posts here indicate you are undeserving of such.


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Anderson Cooper has to be one of the worst trouble making journalists allowed to open his mouth!

Inappropriate use of the "j" word.

 

[Gasu E.]

Exactly BofA really slipped up here.

Not so much. It really is a pretty trivial problem, easily fixed; and no harm done, other than this wretched thread.

And to the inevitable response of "well, you wouldn't feel that way if it happened to you"; this happens to me already several times a year, where I get either a dubious charge I have to dispute, or a mysterious charge followed by an equally mysterious offsetting credit. PEOPLE SHOULD BE checking their statements carefully anyway; it is an essential defensive move against identify threat and fraud that everyone needs to do.

 

[tl01]

We've designed Apple Pay to unapologetically charge you twice for purchases so you can receive twice as many rewards points. It's rather remarkable isn't it? When you think you're paying once for a purchase but you're actually paying twice. That's the power and simplicity of Apple Pay. - Jony
Image

I love Jony and Apple... But that's still pretty funny!

 

[Jet Black]

Apple Pay: You're used to paying twice as much as others for your phone, now pay twice as much for everything else too!

(just a joke, I'm a big apple fan, the money is for the quality )

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I want Apple Pay to work as handing over my credit card or watching the bored shop clerk stare at me while I type my pin in has always been a bug bear of mine. Even in local shops that you have been to for years makes you less secure.

the entire card system is currently based on trusting that someone will not fiddle with the reader unit. Apple Pay kills that dead.

 

[Gasu E.]

When introducing new technology and new systems, it does fall to the vendor of the payment method to assist in getting the implementation to work.

As Apple is the interface in this instance, it was up to them to insure proper interfacing had been implemented. They are the ones who convinced Bank of America to support their service. As such, Apple should have been involved in making sure that everything downstream worked and assured Bank of America that they had properly gotten all the pieces in the process working.

When I had a business accepting credit cards, it fell to that company to come to my location and set everything up for me. If they wanted me to use their service, then they need to set it up.

Apple set up a way to act as a go between for payments. It's up to them to make sure that everything works properly through the entire transaction and to have established the link to Bank of America properly.

As for why it only affected Bank of America, again could be that Apple was a little sloppy in setting up the connection with them.

Yes, Bank of America is refunding the money. Naturally. They're the ones at the end who received the charges. Just because they're at the end of the chain and the ones holding the money, doesn't mean it was their mistakes that caused the problem.

That's an oversimplification. Apple undoubtedly did work with BoA to ensure that the system worked end-to-end. And lo and behold, it does work end-to-end in the vast majority of cases. What Apple cannot and did not do was test every possible scenario and combination for two parts that were under BoA's control. Nobody does, or can do, that with partner testing. Unless you understand every aspect and permutation of the partner's configuration, you can't create the 100% coverage Beta test plan; and typically, if there is a subtle interaction that needs to be tested, it would be up to the partner to identify that-- again, because you don't have the visibility into their infrastructure.

The fact that it works in the vast majority of cases shows that Apple did its job on those parts of BoA's network that were compliant with the partner specification that Apple was working with. The problem was that some components of the network were not compliant, and BoA did not identify those. It's likely that was not easy for BoA to do either, but they were in better position than Apple.

But, without all the facts in our hands, it's hard to overcome confirmation bias; such as the desire to believe that every problem that Apple is involved in is Apple's fault. I'm not saying that's your issue specifically, but there's a lot of that on this thread.

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Nothing to do with Apple? Please! We're talking Apple pay here.

Most people got that he was talking about causality, not correlation. I'm assuming you are among that group of people that understands the difference.

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This is 100% Bank of America's fault. The cesspool of the financial industry knows no bounds when it comes to incompetence.

Hyperbole much? This was a very small glitch, and quite possibly one that was hard to anticipate.

 

[Keirasplace]

So, basically, a non Apple problem blamed on Apple for clickbait... Man, we've never seen that before have we? Fix rather easy, everyone gets their money back and goes back to their sad little world.. ;-)

 

[Gasu E.]

I'd bet if you were one of them you'd be upset.

Not if I found out right away I was going to get credited the money back. Stuff like this (dubious charges, strange transactions) happens to my accounts a couple of times a year, and as long as they are fixed with minimal hassle in a timely manner, I'm fine with this.

 

[samcraig]

The headline IS intentionally false and misleading.

The headline will have MOST people believe that Apple is responsible, not Bank of America. MacRumors knowingly wrote the headline this way, which is horrible journalism. It's not just MacRumors, it's practiced a lot today, by many news sources, and it's just plain wrong.

It seems as if you're just numb to these journalistic practices. It causes people to believe the wrong things, and the wrong people to be hurt.

For example, we had a local news story for the past few weeks, where there was a white car going around trying to pull little kids into the car to abduct them. The white car was on camera, the police finally found the white car and the owner. The news lead story teaser said, 'Police find driver of white car, release owner and do not press charges'. The headline was meant not to tell the news, but instead provoke anger and outrage at the police force - 'How dare they release this person! The cops are corrupted!'. It turns out that the white car we've been seeing in the news was not connected to the white car in the abductions. The news is doing a huge disservice to the police for people who did not actually wait for the 11:00 news to tune in and find out about the story. The same is happening here to Apple Pay. It's wrong, and there is no justification for it except 'well, everyone does it'

No - I think you see what you want to see in the headline as damning.

But clearly enough noise has been made where they've now changed the headline to appease people like you.

 

[JustinCPA]

I think the IRS had the same problem on my 1040.
Every year.

 

[WigWag Workshop]

Instead of 'gate' use 'dome', let's see how many forum members know US history.

I could go for a cup of tea, feeling a little tired from reading this thread.

 

[fongkahchun86]

"Apple's commitment to security..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45tM-58wsG0

 

[GerritV]

What did you do wrong? I, and millions of others, have updated with no problems.

According to AppleCare Staff member after more than 60' support: nothing.
Oh, and still no internet access.

 

[hotdog4u]

i have iphone 6 plus...but this apple pay is bs...and gimmick.

 

[Keirasplace]

No - I think you see what you want to see in the headline as damning.

But clearly enough noise has been made where they've now changed the headline to appease people like you.

So, you're all for clickbait huh! What was said is true. The headline should reflect the truth of the article, not distort it so it will attract a response. Initially, you get your response, people click, but eventually you become like "Business Insider" a web site I avoid like the plague because 80% of their titles don't reflect the article making them a total waste of time.

 

[samcraig]

So, you're all for clickbait huh! What was said is true. The headline should reflect the truth of the article, not distort it so it will attract a response. Initially, you get your response, people click, but eventually you become like "Business Insider" a web site I avoid like the plague because 80% of their titles don't reflect the article making them a total waste of time.

Introducing a straw man argument? I never said anything about desiring clickbait. I'm not 'for" it - however I am not at all surprised given that news, rumor and blog sites create headlines to draw in readers. The original headline reflected the truth. There are many ways to reflect the truth - they chose a more provocative way. Further - you really have no way of knowing if it was a deliberate way to create clickbait - or just the writer not phrasing it in a different way because sometimes that just happens when trying to get stories up. For the most part - this site, while sometimes provocative - typically does the right thing with updates and edits.

 

[Keirasplace]

Introducing a straw man argument? I never said anything about desiring clickbait. I'm not 'for" it - however I am not at all surprised given that news, rumor and blog sites create headlines to draw in readers. The original headline reflected the truth. There are many ways to reflect the truth - they chose a more provocative way. Further - you really have no way of knowing if it was a deliberate way to create clickbait - or just the writer not phrasing it in a different way because sometimes that just happens when trying to get stories up. For the most part - this site, while sometimes provocative - typically does the right thing with updates and edits.

You just described clickbait (provocative, especially when it need not).The goal of news is not to provoque anything BTW unless the news itself induces a reaction : say, a kid gets killed.

Difference between, "Muslims attack the US" and "We are under attack!". BTW, Both, sensational, but not both are sensible journalism! I've seen both on 911. BTW, both reflect facts.

 

[samcraig]

You just described clickbait (provocative, especially when it need not).The goal of news is not to provoque anything BTW unless the news itself induces a reaction : say, a kid gets killed.

Difference between, "Muslims attack the US" and "We are under attack!". BTW, Both, sensational, but not both are sensible journalism! I've seen both on 911. BTW, both reflect facts.

No clickbait is a tactic - it's deliberate. Just because this headline was written in some people's mind as poorly doesn't make it clickbait.

 

[greenmeanie]

Yeah because having your money tied up is so much fun isn't it?

HOLY CRAP GUYS! A brand new service with so many varying factors would run into problems in the first week? Thats unheard of...

 

[rdlink]

EVERYTHING I BELIEVED IS A LIE! :runs away crying:

Though on a serious note, no matter who's fault it is, this little hiccup only justifies my decision to wait and use Apple Pay only after the bugs and kinks have been worked out. I like the idea of it, certainly, but I'm not trusting any service to my bank account and credit cards until its well matured.

But you understand, don't you that literally 10s of thousands of transactions have this happen on a daily basis without Apple Pay being involved? It's likely far more prevalent in swipe transactions than with touchless, because swipe transactions put your credit card, and control of the transaction in the hands of a clerk who can either be:

• Incompetent
• Corrupt
• Apathetic
• All of the above

If you really want to be protected use BillGuard. It's free to download and use on your iPhone (with a premium service upgrade available). I've had it for a couple of years, and it occasionally pops up to tell me about charges that look suspicious. Fortunately, they've always been false alarms so far, but it's nice to know it's watching.

 

[Renzatic]

But you understand, don't you that literally 10s of thousands of transactions have this happen on a daily basis without Apple Pay being involved? It's likely far more prevalent in swipe transactions than with touchless, because swipe transactions put your credit card, and control of the transaction in the hands of a clerk who can either be:

• Incompetent
• Corrupt
• Apathetic
• All of the above

Oh, I'm very aware of the inherit security weaknesses that come standard with credit cards. It's why I tend to use cash more often than not for everything except internet transactions, and even there I'm exceedingly careful, only using store sites I trust.

Like I said, I like the idea of Apple Pay, Google Wallet, et al., because they are far more secure in comparison. But I don't want to use them just yet, while they're still new, and there are likely tons of little kinks that need to be worked out. Yeah, I know. I'm probably being way too overly cautious, but I'll feel better about it once everyone else has guinea pigged it for me for about a year or so.

 

[zipa]

Just shut up and take my money.

 

[882188]

HUNDREDS of users are affected!!! HUNDREDS!!!

Haha! Nice! Apple Pay will be the next Ping!

 

[Moto G]

Shhh ... psst.... don't tell the internet

 

[C DM]

Haha! Nice! Apple Pay will be the next Ping!

Well, it's more that a small percentage of Bank of America users were affected, which doesn't translate to a large number. That number doesn't really relate to or say much about Apple Pay (aside from perhaps that it is at least decently popular in just a week or so that enough people used it to come across this rather limited issue with just one bank).