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There's rising amount of that, "I don't use it, so I'm glad it's gone" attitude on these forums sadly.

So inconsiderate of others. Why people want to pay more for less functionality is beyond me, as is why people would celebrate the choices of others being taken away.

This right here is the biggest reason I get so upset at people here. The complete lack of respect for another use case beyond their tiny world just makes me want to reach through the computer screen and slap them. I need to just stop reading these posts because it just makes me rage inside to see the selfishness so rampant.
[doublepost=1525234645][/doublepost]
are people really still upset about the headphone jack? everyone I know doesn’t even think about it anymore. If they want to use headphones bluetooth is definitely the way to go and they are getting much cheaper for people that don’t like to spend a lot. it’s not a big deal for apple to include a $9 dongle that tons of people don’t even use.

I'm sick of going in to detail about why, but the answer to your first question is YES. I am still upset about it. I am not going to stop being upset about it either, and I don't think I am the only one. Both of our cases may be anecdotal, but the majority of people I know either upgraded to a 6S or have been holding onto their 6S or SE because they still have the jack rather than going for the 7 or newer phone. Some people don't care, and that's great for them. But I think you underestimate the number of people who do care.
 
This right here is the biggest reason I get so upset at people here. The complete lack of respect for another use case beyond their tiny world just makes me want to reach through the computer screen and slap them. I need to just stop reading these posts because it just makes me rage inside to see the selfishness so rampant.
[doublepost=1525234645][/doublepost]

I'm sick of going in to detail about why, but the answer to your first question is YES. I am still upset about it. I am not going to stop being upset about it either, and I don't think I am the only one. Both of our cases may be anecdotal, but the majority of people I know either upgraded to a 6S or have been holding onto their 6S or SE because they still have the jack rather than going for the 7 or newer phone. Some people don't care, and that's great for them. But I think you underestimate the number of people who do care.
I swear that ticks me off! It's like some people think they speak for everyone else. And it's beyond ridiculous to have pay more, for less functionality.
 
Nope. No confirmation. You're just making stuff up.
[doublepost=1525145503][/doublepost]

What's that have to do with anything?
.....Well it’s not been 6 months yet.

In the meantime, I do not need to confirm anything to you. The only confirmation you can get of a rumor/report is a leaked image of a box or internal documents regarding the matter, both highly unlikely at this stage. I never said you had to believe me/this rumor. It is entirely up to you, and if you don’t, that’s fine. You’re trying to argue over a dongle.
 
lose the dongle? then include airpods.

Why not leave a charger out of the box while you're at it?

I'd buy an iPhone without charger and without dongles and EarPods if they gave me a discount or a gift card to spend on other stuff. My house if full of cables, wall plugs and useless EarPods
 
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BTW, the info you quoted is misleading. Bluetooth did not outsell wired headphones in 2016 in the US. Wired still sold approx 5 times more. Bluetooth did generate more revenues due to the much higher selling price.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-7-wireless-headphones-sales-chart-2016-9
Yes, your right. It should be outsold. That was in 2016, with Apple removing the 3.5mm headphone jack I would imagine Bluetooth headphones outsell wired in 2018 (although Bluetooth would still be competing with £1 wired headphones which sell buckets). I see Bluetooth headphones everywhere. I have two pairs. Powerbeats 3 and Bose AE 2. They both sound incredible and not unlike any of the bluetooth headphones for 10 years ago.
[doublepost=1525247215][/doublepost]Wireless version of Koss PortaPro released. Tells me everything about the headphone market. (Link says samsung, but it is correct)
https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_announces_128gb_and_256gb_variants_of_the_galaxy_s9-news-30787.php
 
Hooooray! About time. We consumers that care about best sounding audio really want to pay extra so we can hear it...

"We consumers that care about the best operating system are willing to pay extra for our hardware so we can use it."

And yet, you guys are 100% serious then.
 
Yes, your right. It should be outsold. That was in 2016, with Apple removing the 3.5mm headphone jack I would imagine Bluetooth headphones outsell wired in 2018 (although Bluetooth would still be competing with £1 wired headphones which sell buckets). I see Bluetooth headphones everywhere. I have two pairs. Powerbeats 3 and Bose AE 2. They both sound incredible and not unlike any of the bluetooth headphones for 10 years ago.
[doublepost=1525247215][/doublepost]Wireless version of Koss PortaPro released. Tells me everything about the headphone market. (Link says samsung, but it is correct)
https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_announces_128gb_and_256gb_variants_of_the_galaxy_s9-news-30787.php
The wired versions are available from Amazon for half the price of the Bluetooth. Why would I buy Bluetooth for the inconvenience of latency issues and needing to charge. If I used the wireless version with my Fiio X3 player I would notice a definitly poorer sound quality as they will not have nearly as good DAC/amp compared to the X3. I have used Senheisser PX100 phones for a long time for gym/portable use. These cost around £35 and have always performed better than Bluetooth sets well over £100.
 
The wired versions are available from Amazon for half the price of the Bluetooth. Why would I buy Bluetooth for the inconvenience of latency issues and needing to charge. If I used the wireless version with my Fiio X3 player I would notice a definitly poorer sound quality as they will not have nearly as good DAC/amp compared to the X3. I have used Senheisser PX100 phones for a long time for gym/portable use. These cost around £35 and have always performed better than Bluetooth sets well over £100.
If such an iconic headphones that's been around since the 80's now has a wireless version, that shows the way the market is going. I would love Grado to make a wireless pair of their headphones!

To be honest, bluetooth was rubbish 10 years ago but it's pretty decent now. Latency is not really an issue (unless playing games), although not so much with the powerbeats 3. What else do we have? Kleer was pretty good but a massive dongle was needed. It was uncompressed and low latency. It died!

I used to own some serious high end equipment (dac, power, pre amp, REL subwoofer, DTS audio CDs, etc) but now I choose to use a bluetooth wireless speaker and bluetooth headphones. The reason is I enjoy it more than spending time being analytical. Sure, I am not going to use a £10 bluetooth headset :) but the powerbeats and bose sound decent enough to me that I enjoy the music, film, whatever I play. The Bose in particular sound exactly like the wired version only more convenient to use.
 
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Already lost 2 of these, I understand the want for everything going wireless, but what about the times you want to hook up to someone’s speakers at a party, not everyone has wireless surround sound in their house.
 
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.....Well it’s not been 6 months yet.

In the meantime, I do not need to confirm anything to you. The only confirmation you can get of a rumor/report is a leaked image of a box or internal documents regarding the matter, both highly unlikely at this stage. I never said you had to believe me/this rumor. It is entirely up to you, and if you don’t, that’s fine. You’re trying to argue over a dongle.

That's ok. In the end you are making stuff up, and trying hard to pass that off as fact.
 
That's ok. In the end you are making stuff up, and trying hard to pass that off as fact.
I am not making it up, if I was ‘making it up’, I would preface by saying ‘I think’ or ‘In my opinion’. I am not ‘trying hard to pass that off as fact’, I am simply stating it as a fact. I’m not trying to convince anyone or saying anyone should believe me. None of my messages have tried hard to convince you, in fact they’ve done the opposite and played up to your obnoxious comments. But anyway, we seem to agree to disagree at this stage. Time will tell who’s right.
 
If such an iconic headphones that's been around since the 80's now has a wireless version, that shows the way the market is going. I would love Grado to make a wireless pair of their headphones!

.

Perhaps Grado do not want to downgrade the performance of their headphones and damage their reputation ..... even though they could well profit by pandering to the fashion victim market :)
 
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Musician/recording artist/performer here.

The in-ear monitor industry / audio industry has not adapted to this standard. We're still stuck with in-ears that use 3.5mm cables. :-(

Those of us that use IEMs to listen to music on the iPhone (my preference) must use the adapter.

No adapter means we either need to buy expensive in-ear monitor cables that have the lightning connector, or buy a dang adapter from Apple. But then there's always the conundrum of switching from adapter to 3.5mm for our Aviom/Hearback systems.
 
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Musician/recording artist/performer here.

The in-ear monitor industry / audio industry has not adapted to this standard. We're still stuck with in-ears that use 3.5mm cables. :-(

Exactly. As a musician that headphone jack connects me to ALL my expensive stuff. Hope Apple throws us a bone and keeps the jack in the SE2 (whenever it appears). I don't understand those who don't want any Apple phones to retain it. If they don't want it, buy another model. Didn't they get the meme? Diversity is good :)
 
Haven't dug through all 16 pages of this thread, so, apologies for most likely duplicating comments.

I would not have an issue with this under a couple of scenarios. And yes, I still use/love wired headphones/earbuds.

With the rumor story today of future iPhones coming with USB-C charging brick and cable, good step forward for one step back (the 3.5mm dongle). Small sacrifice. And with Apple opening up the Lightning spec for 3rd party 3.5mm dongles a month back, we should be seeing more price-friendly options from Anker, Amazon, et al.
 
Musician/recording artist/performer here.

The in-ear monitor industry / audio industry has not adapted to this standard. We're still stuck with in-ears that use 3.5mm cables. :-(

Those of us that use IEMs to listen to music on the iPhone (my preference) must use the adapter.
What are you referring to as "this standard"?
 
I'd buy an iPhone without charger and without dongles and EarPods if they gave me a discount or a gift card to spend on other stuff. My house if full of cables, wall plugs and useless EarPods

Agreed, but that would hurt Timmy's tiny little heart of ice.

My 2004 Powerbook G4 came with video adaptors for VGA and DVI as well as the extension cable for power. My 2011 MPB (still under Steve Jobs) was $300 cheaper but included only the extension cable (so I was happy with the price reduction). My 2017 MBP was $500 more, included nothing but the power brick, and requires adapters for everything. That's the Timmy way.
 
This right here is the biggest reason I get so upset at people here. The complete lack of respect for another use case beyond their tiny world just makes me want to reach through the computer screen and slap them. I need to just stop reading these posts because it just makes me rage inside to see the selfishness so rampant.
[doublepost=1525234645][/doublepost]

I'm sick of going in to detail about why, but the answer to your first question is YES. I am still upset about it. I am not going to stop being upset about it either, and I don't think I am the only one. Both of our cases may be anecdotal, but the majority of people I know either upgraded to a 6S or have been holding onto their 6S or SE because they still have the jack rather than going for the 7 or newer phone. Some people don't care, and that's great for them. But I think you underestimate the number of people who do care.


Am I the only one who feels this way:

The "issue" isn't so much Apple's potentially removing a once-provided "free" adapter (which, so very iRonically was in response to their removing the headphone jack...), nor others' "insensitivity" to the needs/preferences of some.

Rather, those are just "one-straw-too-many" beyond the main issue of simply too much accumulated fatigue by customers having to adjust via both their mindset and wallets every 6-12 months to accommodate Apple's 5-year waterfall of removing, reducing, and changing user interface items (both software & hardware) as if those UI items were "optional features" instead of "optimized, mature standards pretty well-integrated into the world outside of Apple." It's been a death-by-thousand-paper-cuts-while-sitting-in-slowly-boiling-water as customers are required to do "more" to counter the "less" as Apple removes/reduces ports, jacks, home buttons, pixels, protective-case-friendly bezels, component upgradeability, UI details & affordances, function keys, and Magsafe in favor of sleeker, thinner, lighter. Further iRonically, any reduced size & weight is merely shifted into the new headphones, new adapters, new dongles, new y-splitters, new usb hubs, new magsafe-like usb-c adapters, new JetDrive Lites, etc., etc., etc., purchased by customers in order to regain the functions & conveniences that were largely built-in to Apple hardware just a few years prior. Then, even further iRonically, many of those items must be stored and toted around along with their "more portable" (????) iPhone or MacBook. (Re-read those last two sentences for a convenient lesson in Conservation of Mass).

Compounding this: 1) Apple's seeming indifference to resulting negative trade-offs to many in this quest to find the next floppy drive, spinning HD, or serial port to remove. Do you enjoy touch ID's convenience of finding a tactile button for unlocking without having to face or even see the phone? Too bad, hello Face ID (more work than before to do the same act). Enjoy having to hunt/guess/click/swipe more to access tucked-away-functions that were previously intuitively identified out in the open and enacted via just one tap before? iOS 7-11 is pretty great for you then, even with it's often requiring more work than before to do the same acts. 2) Apple's history of relatively limited line-up across products which could at least offer some hardware flexibility for users less interested in the skinniest device. Want a mobile Apple device optimized for durability & the field w/o carrying adapters? Just buy a case & more adapters. 3) Apple's frequent Apple-centric thinking regarding cables/ports/devices which further tasks the customer with segmentation across their accumulating interface hardware. No headphone jack? Buy AirPods that work only with your Apple products and don't assist with integrating into your inventory of other still-valuable often-expensive non-Apple hardware into a no-headphone-jack world.


It's well understood that Apple's credo is to not cower to, I mean, cater to customer preferences, instead challenging the customer to summon the courage to change their world to match Apple's ideal world. But Apple's shifting its focus noticeably 5 years ago away from a finely-tuned balance of functionality, flexibility, utility, durability, and even fun-factor and instead towards focusing on thinness, lightness, sleekness, unobtrusiveness, symmetry, and fashion-first over function is dangerously simmering into becoming an evil caricature of Change for the sake of Change. How much is left to remove with this "less is more" mentality? Backspace buttons? Sent Items Folders in iMail? What bigger example is there of Apple's thinking "less is more" than the silly commercial where the supposedly technologically-savvy girl supposedly does all per productivity work on a tablet and has not a clue what a computer is? Good luck to her if she becomes an engineer one day and tries designing & developing the world's next iPod, iPhone, or iPad using an iPad.

Worse is that most all 3rd party developers and even competitors blindly follow Apple's design-vision lead for better or worse...

I could probably live with the headphone jack removal if my iPhone's UI still felt intuitive and magical, and if post-Mavericks OSX didn't look distractingly like Fisher Price's My First Computer, and if the MacBook Pro had a pro-level selection of ports, and if the only option to upgrade my MacBook Air's 8GB ram wasn't to buy a whole new laptop, and if my iPhone's durability to withstand weekly drops wasn't based on a photogenic crystal teacup.

Anyone else feel the bigger issue is the removal of more and more and more to where each new removal is just painful?
 
Am I the only one who feels this way:

The "issue" isn't so much Apple's potentially removing a once-provided "free" adapter (which, so very iRonically was in response to their removing the headphone jack...), nor others' "insensitivity" to the needs/preferences of some.

Rather, those are just "one-straw-too-many" beyond the main issue of simply too much accumulated fatigue by customers having to adjust via both their mindset and wallets every 6-12 months to accommodate Apple's 5-year waterfall of removing, reducing, and changing user interface items (both software & hardware) as if those UI items were "optional features" instead of "optimized, mature standards pretty well-integrated into the world outside of Apple." It's been a death-by-thousand-paper-cuts-while-sitting-in-slowly-boiling-water as customers are required to do "more" to counter the "less" as Apple removes/reduces ports, jacks, home buttons, pixels, protective-case-friendly bezels, component upgradeability, UI details & affordances, function keys, and Magsafe in favor of sleeker, thinner, lighter. Further iRonically, any reduced size & weight is merely shifted into the new headphones, new adapters, new dongles, new y-splitters, new usb hubs, new magsafe-like usb-c adapters, new JetDrive Lites, etc., etc., etc., purchased by customers in order to regain the functions & conveniences that were largely built-in to Apple hardware just a few years prior. Then, even further iRonically, many of those items must be stored and toted around along with their "more portable" (????) iPhone or MacBook. (Re-read those last two sentences for a convenient lesson in Conservation of Mass).

Compounding this: 1) Apple's seeming indifference to resulting negative trade-offs to many in this quest to find the next floppy drive, spinning HD, or serial port to remove. Do you enjoy touch ID's convenience of finding a tactile button for unlocking without having to face or even see the phone? Too bad, hello Face ID (more work than before to do the same act). Enjoy having to hunt/guess/click/swipe more to access tucked-away-functions that were previously intuitively identified out in the open and enacted via just one tap before? iOS 7-11 is pretty great for you then, even with it's often requiring more work than before to do the same acts. 2) Apple's history of relatively limited line-up across products which could at least offer some hardware flexibility for users less interested in the skinniest device. Want a mobile Apple device optimized for durability & the field w/o carrying adapters? Just buy a case & more adapters. 3) Apple's frequent Apple-centric thinking regarding cables/ports/devices which further tasks the customer with segmentation across their accumulating interface hardware. No headphone jack? Buy AirPods that work only with your Apple products and don't assist with integrating into your inventory of other still-valuable often-expensive non-Apple hardware into a no-headphone-jack world.


It's well understood that Apple's credo is to not cower to, I mean, cater to customer preferences, instead challenging the customer to summon the courage to change their world to match Apple's ideal world. But Apple's shifting its focus noticeably 5 years ago away from a finely-tuned balance of functionality, flexibility, utility, durability, and even fun-factor and instead towards focusing on thinness, lightness, sleekness, unobtrusiveness, symmetry, and fashion-first over function is dangerously simmering into becoming an evil caricature of Change for the sake of Change. How much is left to remove with this "less is more" mentality? Backspace buttons? Sent Items Folders in iMail? What bigger example is there of Apple's thinking "less is more" than the silly commercial where the supposedly technologically-savvy girl supposedly does all per productivity work on a tablet and has not a clue what a computer is? Good luck to her if she becomes an engineer one day and tries designing & developing the world's next iPod, iPhone, or iPad using an iPad.

Worse is that most all 3rd party developers and even competitors blindly follow Apple's design-vision lead for better or worse...

I could probably live with the headphone jack removal if my iPhone's UI still felt intuitive and magical, and if post-Mavericks OSX didn't look distractingly like Fisher Price's My First Computer, and if the MacBook Pro had a pro-level selection of ports, and if the only option to upgrade my MacBook Air's 8GB ram wasn't to buy a whole new laptop, and if my iPhone's durability to withstand weekly drops wasn't based on a photogenic crystal teacup.

Anyone else feel the bigger issue is the removal of more and more and more to where each new removal is just painful?

Finally... Someone who actually gets it. I wish I could like this post 1000 times. I'd say more, but you summed it up perfectly.
 
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Am I the only one who feels this way: The "issue" isn't so much Apple's potentially removing a once-provided "free" adapter (which, so very iRonically was in response to their removing the headphone jack...), nor others' "insensitivity" to the needs/preferences of some.

Rather, those are just "one-straw-too-many" beyond the main issue of simply too much accumulated fatigue by customers having to adjust via both their mindset and wallets every 6-12 months to accommodate Apple's 5-year waterfall of removing, reducing, and changing user interface items (both software & hardware) as if those UI items were "optional features" instead of "optimized, mature standards pretty well-integrated into the world outside of Apple." It's been a death-by-thousand-paper-cuts-while-sitting-in-slowly-boiling-water as customers are required to do "more" to counter the "less" as Apple removes/reduces ports, jacks, home buttons, pixels, protective-case-friendly bezels, component upgradeability, UI details & affordances, function keys, and Magsafe in favor of sleeker, thinner, lighter.

Yep, so tired of the endless "churn" in tech because a LOT of babies have been thrown out with bath water. Lately, it seems 1 step forward and 2 steps back (e.g. MacBook with only USB-C...and an underwhelming touchbar). If I didn't know better I would say the tech industry is just trying to keep everyone employed. And not just Apple, I mean dongle/adapter/App/Accessories/peripherals/etc. Imagine if someone nailed the perfect design and everyone bought it and nobody bought another tech product for 10 years? Layoffs...
Anyone who says the "churn" is NOT summed up by that Bee Gee's song "Stayin Alive", is fooling themselves.
 
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If they don't want it, buy another model.
Works the other way too, if you want it, buy a lightning to headphone jack adapter :)

As a consumer (of which there are more than pro consumers) I don't need it, thanks to bluetooth wireless headphones. If I was a pro consumer I would want it. Once there is a demand for wireless headphones, technology will improve.

Yes, you can buy headphones that play material from 8hz to 40Khz but seriously, unless you are superman or a dog you wouldn't be able to hear the whole range anyway, although reading the specs you may convince yourself it can be heard.

The future is wireless anyway 2050, no 3.5mm headphone jack for sure. I would imagine in the future everything is wireless with no latency. Not quite there yet though! :)
 
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Am I the only one who feels this way:

The "issue" isn't so much Apple's potentially removing a once-provided "free" adapter (which, so very iRonically was in response to their removing the headphone jack...), nor others' "insensitivity" to the needs/preferences of some.

You are not the only one who feels this way, but I do feel that your sentiment, while perhaps representative of a growing group of disgruntled users here, isn't really representative of Apple's user base in general.

And yelling at one another here isn't really helping your case. You might draw a few like-minded people to your case, but you will also alienate everyone else who doesn't share your sentiments.

Rather, those are just "one-straw-too-many" beyond the main issue of simply too much accumulated fatigue by customers having to adjust via both their mindset and wallets every 6-12 months to accommodate Apple's 5-year waterfall of removing, reducing, and changing user interface items (both software & hardware) as if those UI items were "optional features" instead of "optimized, mature standards pretty well-integrated into the world outside of Apple." It's been a death-by-thousand-paper-cuts-while-sitting-in-slowly-boiling-water as customers are required to do "more" to counter the "less" as Apple removes/reduces ports, jacks, home buttons, pixels, protective-case-friendly bezels, component upgradeability, UI details & affordances, function keys, and Magsafe in favor of sleeker, thinner, lighter. Further iRonically, any reduced size & weight is merely shifted into the new headphones, new adapters, new dongles, new y-splitters, new usb hubs, new magsafe-like usb-c adapters, new JetDrive Lites, etc., etc., etc., purchased by customers in order to regain the functions & conveniences that were largely built-in to Apple hardware just a few years prior. Then, even further iRonically, many of those items must be stored and toted around along with their "more portable" (????) iPhone or MacBook. (Re-read those last two sentences for a convenient lesson in Conservation of Mass).

To me, that has always been the caveat for using Apple products. They offer you an optimised way of getting things done, but the catch is that you have to do it their way. If the manner in which Apple implemented a certain feature so happens to be in line with how you intend to get things done, it's "magical". If it's the direct opposite, then it's like jogging through quicksand - you will die a slow and painful death.

For me, I generally don't have an issue with how Apple has traditionally done things, and I also use all the issues you have listed as an opportunity to re-examine the way I do things and see how I can further evolve my own workflows.

If anything, that's what I am already doing with my iPad Pro. When I first got my 2012 iPad 3, I saw its potential despite its myriad of flaws and shortcomings, and so I set out to eliminate those limitations one by one. No file manager? Dropbox + Documents. Use Workflow to automate away the friction in certain tasks. Use airdrop to pass files around. The port is used either for charging or the VGA adaptor (and I have an Apple TV for mirroring in another class). Wireless connectivity with 4G.

The end result is that for many tasks, I can actually be more efficient on my iPad compared to a conventional PC. I can't go and address every one of the points you just listed, but in general, my solution is to simply not fight what Apple is trying to do, and I find that one generally comes out better for it. I bought the Apple Watch, and it's a great accessory to my iPhone. I got the AirPods, and it's the only pair of headphones I ever use these days. People laugh at the charging method of the Apple Pencil; it's the only way I ever charge my pencil since the day I bought it.

Sometimes, I look at all these criticisms and wonder what it is that I am doing wrong (or right) for me to not have experienced any of these issues.

But that's just me. I suppose I am fortunate in that the direction in which Apple seems to be headed in so happens to be in line with what I want out of my devices.

Compounding this: 1) Apple's seeming indifference to resulting negative trade-offs to many in this quest to find the next floppy drive, spinning HD, or serial port to remove. Do you enjoy touch ID's convenience of finding a tactile button for unlocking without having to face or even see the phone? Too bad, hello Face ID (more work than before to do the same act). Enjoy having to hunt/guess/click/swipe more to access tucked-away-functions that were previously intuitively identified out in the open and enacted via just one tap before? iOS 7-11 is pretty great for you then, even with it's often requiring more work than before to do the same acts. 2) Apple's history of relatively limited line-up across products which could at least offer some hardware flexibility for users less interested in the skinniest device. Want a mobile Apple device optimized for durability & the field w/o carrying adapters? Just buy a case & more adapters. 3) Apple's frequent Apple-centric thinking regarding cables/ports/devices which further tasks the customer with segmentation across their accumulating interface hardware. No headphone jack? Buy AirPods that work only with your Apple products and don't assist with integrating into your inventory of other still-valuable often-expensive non-Apple hardware into a no-headphone-jack world.

The way I see it, the problem here is that many people are over-emphasising the short-term drawbacks associated with the moves that Apple has made, while completely undervaluing their long-term ramifications.

Remember when Apple blocked flash on iOS and many people cried murder? In the short run, users were inconvenienced because they couldn't access flash content on their iPads. In the long run, we benefited from native apps in a thriving App Store, and websites better designed for mobile.

I am not saying the loss of the home button, or the headphone jack, or traditional ports or having to use adaptors doesn't suck. I am simply saying that it will all be worth it in the end. I think the whole issue here is our general inability / unwillingness to look beyond our own short-term interests. Yes, we can see the potential that USB-C holds, but clearly nobody wants to be one to have to give up their USB-A peripherals or spend extra on adaptors.

The lesson Apple keeps teaching and others keep ignoring is - to create true meaningful change in a market you need to force change. By taking bold unapologetic stances. Here’s a touchscreen smart phone without the familiarity of a physical Qwerty keyboard. Here’s a large screen tablet without a desktop OS and desktop apps and file system. Here’s a smart phone without a headphone jack. Here's a laptop with only USB-C ports.

In my opinion, Apple hasn't changed, in that I fully expect Apple to pull this sort of stunt from time to time, and personally, I quite welcome it. The problem here is that their users haven't changed either. They bought into Apple at a certain frame of time and they somehow expect Apple to just keep making and supporting the same old product forever.

At this point, maybe the current Apple is no longer the same Apple you knew back then, and perhaps breaking up is the most correct thing you can do, rather than continue to languish in a failing relationship and grow more and more bitter and resentful with each passing day.

It's well understood that Apple's credo is to not cower to, I mean, cater to customer preferences, instead challenging the customer to summon the courage to change their world to match Apple's ideal world. But Apple's shifting its focus noticeably 5 years ago away from a finely-tuned balance of functionality, flexibility, utility, durability, and even fun-factor and instead towards focusing on thinness, lightness, sleekness, unobtrusiveness, symmetry, and fashion-first over function is dangerously simmering into becoming an evil caricature of Change for the sake of Change. How much is left to remove with this "less is more" mentality? Backspace buttons? Sent Items Folders in iMail? What bigger example is there of Apple's thinking "less is more" than the silly commercial where the supposedly technologically-savvy girl supposedly does all per productivity work on a tablet and has not a clue what a computer is? Good luck to her if she becomes an engineer one day and tries designing & developing the world's next iPod, iPhone, or iPad using an iPad.

And that's your rebuttal? That the girl is screwed if she ever has to interview for a job which she might not even have an interest in?

Not everyone needs a PC in the first place. If I were a chef, or a construction worker, or one of so many vocations which doesn't involve interacting with a computer in any way, is it such a big deal that I have no idea what a PC is? Say the iPad meets my needs just fine. I return home from work, chill on the couch, and the iPad can meet all my light productivity, entertainment and social media needs, why are you so insistent that I use a PC if it's not the right tool for the job?

Apple is all about making technology more personal, and personally as a fan of the iPad Pro, if Apple does ever intend to usher in a new world order where the iPad is the default PC of choice for the general consumer and it meets their needs so well that they have absolute zero need of a conventional PC, I will be there at the frontlines cheering Apple on.

The Macs will still be there for the engineers, the coders, the app developers, the scientists. But I fail to see what the general populace has to lose from not using a device that never really met their needs to begin with.

Worse is that most all 3rd party developers and even competitors blindly follow Apple's design-vision lead for better or worse...

I could probably live with the headphone jack removal if my iPhone's UI still felt intuitive and magical, and if post-Mavericks OSX didn't look distractingly like Fisher Price's My First Computer, and if the MacBook Pro had a pro-level selection of ports, and if the only option to upgrade my MacBook Air's 8GB ram wasn't to buy a whole new laptop, and if my iPhone's durability to withstand weekly drops wasn't based on a photogenic crystal teacup.

Anyone else feel the bigger issue is the removal of more and more and more to where each new removal is just painful?
I think the real issue here is that in a bid to serve a newer generation of consumers, Apple has changed in keeping with the times and the consequence is that they have left their old user base behind. And this older user base has little incentive to change, for reasons which remain their own, and now they are frightened.

History has shown that you cannot usher in a new world order without first doing away with the current one. It is not a genuine state of concern for Apple's future, or the well-being of us consumers that has you making this giant post that you did. It is fear, plain and simple.

From the perspective of someone whose work cannot be done on an iPad, there is a growing observation that apple's existing lineup of computers is either going extinct (Mac mini, tower Mac Pro, Airport) or evolving in a manner which they don't care for (eg: thinner, loss of legacy ports, crappy keyboard, touchbar displacing function keys). Not to mention that macOS no longer seems the stable, hassle-free OS it was once renowned for.

Apple seems to have little motivation in continuing to invest in the Mac and its future is honestly quite uncertain. As such, this makes people like you extremely sensitive to catchphrases such as "What's a computer" because it just reinforces your own observations - that Apple no longer seems passionate about the Mac and they might soon be faced with a grim future of either being saddled with a Mac which doesn't meet their needs, or turn to a Windows computer.

You are scared. You don't want to move to Windows or Linux but at the rate at which things are headed, you just might wake up one day and finding that this has become a reality.

I can empathise with that. I have no answer for you, because I am in the iPad camp, and all I can give you is a virtual hug and genuinely wish you all the best. Come what may from Apple.
 
I don't think you know how the technology works. The signal on a 1/8" jack is only as good as the DAC and amp powering it, and you bet your ass there are DAC's and amps out there that wipe the floor with the W1.



Ah, yes. The solution that still involves BUYING something else... Also you seem to be forgetting that putting those dongles on everything is great when the only source of audio you use is your iPhone. Those dongles have to come off when I want to use any other device I own with them. Now those unattached dongles can go missing easy, better throw more money at apple for creating a solution in search of a problem.
So you would be OK with buying an $800-$1000 phone if it just came with a headphone jack, but you've got a problem with the $54? OK... You know they still make an iPhone for you: the 6s (or the SE if you don't need the 5Mpx FaceTime camera). Either would save you a buttload of money too! You're welcome. ;)
 
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The way I see it, the problem here is that many people are over-emphasising the short-term drawbacks associated with the moves that Apple has made, while completely undervaluing their long-term ramifications…


In my opinion, Apple hasn't changed, in that I fully expect Apple to pull this sort of stunt from time to time, and personally, I quite welcome it. The problem here is that their users haven't changed either. They bought into Apple at a certain frame of time and they somehow expect Apple to just keep making and supporting the same old product forever.

At this point, maybe the current Apple is no longer the same Apple you knew back then, and perhaps breaking up is the most correct thing you can do, rather than continue to languish in a failing relationship and grow more and more bitter and resentful with each passing day



I think the real issue here is that in a bid to serve a newer generation of consumers, Apple has changed in keeping with the times and the consequence is that they have left their old user base behind. And this older user base has little incentive to change, for reasons which remain their own, and now they are frightened.

History has shown that you cannot usher in a new world order without first doing away with the current one. It is not a genuine state of concern for Apple's future, or the well-being of us consumers that has you making this giant post that you did. It is fear, plain and simple.

Sooooo much yes in this comment. I think you are 100% spot on!
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g in to detail about why, but the answer to your first question is YES. I am still upset about it. I am not going to stop being upset about it either, and I don't think I am the only one. Both of our cases may be anecdotal, but the majority of people I know either upgraded to a 6S or have been holding onto their 6S or SE because they still have the jack rather than going for the 7 or newer phone. Some people don't care, and that's great for them. But I think you underestimate the number of people who do care.

It’s been what, two years since they removed it from their new phones? It’s not coming back. Yes, you have every right to be upset about it. But, honestly, if it is that upsetting to you then its time for you to move on to another company that better fits your needs. Apple won’t be bringing it back and as you can see it is moving further and further away from coddling the people that are upset about the removal of the jack. The 6S will be phased out if not in September then by next year at the latest. It’s time to make a decision to stay with Apple as they continue to change tech the way they see fit or move on to another company. Being upset two years down the road doesn’t do any good for you or for them.

I believe Apple took the removal of the jack very seriously and weighed their options of the consumers who would in the end not be bothered by the removal and the ones who would leave Apple because of it. I think their decision has made it very clear where they stand.
 
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