BBC Documentary Claims Apple Fails to Protect Chinese Factory Workers

[Kissaragi]

the BBC has excellent programming. I discovered them couple years ago during the Sochi Olympics and their coverage blew me away. it was completely focused on the sports and athletes alone. nothing else. completely unlike the pathetic NBC anti-Russian propaganda that was bombarded upon us here.

seriously what's everyone's beef with the BBC here. they have excellent quality programming that's probably better than all our networks combined.

Because they used to be unbiased and thorough and they aren't anymore. Oh and if we want to watch any live TV, BBC or not, we still have to pay their fee. Then theres the executives getting multi million pound pay offs, coverups, peodophiles working unchallenged for decades.... shall I go on?

They are not all bad of course, they are just no better than other other broadcasting company anymore on the whole.

 

[Zxxv]

I was alwways under the impression that as long as the TV was capable of receiving live broadcasts, you were eligible if you use it or not, but it seems you are correct on that one (I've never looked into it before)!

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/how-to-tell-us-you-dont-watch-tv-top12



Seems like a half decent option for those that don't watch live broadcasts. Our home could likely survive on iPlayer and Netflix alone....

Thats what mine does. Make sure you take out the aerial and detune the set/set it up as new so it comes up with the message you get to start tuning it in. Thats just incase you accidentally let them in one day and allow them to check you can't receive a live broadcast. If the set can receive one they will say you watch it. If they can't get a picture of a live broadcast you are in the clear.

You also don't have to let them know you don't need a license like they ask you to, you also don't have to let them in, you don't have to answer them or talk to them.
Theres plenty of info on the web and youtube so I won't take up the forum. The info I posted is enough to stay within the law.

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Umm BBC does not profit from things like this. It is funded by a license fee.

They still sell it abroad to other countries and theres the dvd sales too.

 

[ChazUK]

You also don't have to let them know you don't need a license like they ask you to, you also don't have to let them in, you don't have to answer them or talk to them.
Theres plenty of info on the web and youtube so I won't take up the forum. The info I posted is enough to stay within the law.

Excellent info, thank you!

 

[bennibeef]

Hope they mention that its actually Foxconn's workers and Foxcon produces almost everything for every big Electronics Company. But yeah, its always apples fault somehow if chinese workers are being talked.

 

[hypermog]

When I was doing game testing in Southern California we would work over 18 days in a row and 16 hour days, and it's totally legal. Read up on California Labor Code Section 554: "Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to prevent an accumulation of days of rest when the nature of the employment reasonably requires that the employee work seven or more consecutive days, if in each calendar month the employee receives days of rest equivalent to one day's rest in seven."

I was young, we did it, we kicked ass, and I don't think those numbers amount to anything particularly heinous.

 

[Zxxv]

Excellent info, thank you!

if you need more PM me

 

[TTile]

I'm a physician and I routinely work 80+ hour weeks (and 100+ hour weeks during residency). These factory workers have it good! Maybe the BBC should produce a documentary on overworked physicians (something that actually matters).

 

[ashdelacroix]

I have huge respect for both the BBC and Apple, so I find my loyalties rather divided. However, we must accept that Apple is by some measure the largest company in the world and that it eloquently and prominently wears its ethical credentials on its sleeve. Few companies, certainly those in manufacturing, make so much out of its ethical commitments and use those in part to increase revenues by boosting the "feel good factor" around its ecosystem.

It is only right that this is held up to scrutiny and another side of the story is presented for us to judge the evidence. Apple has made its achievements clear and the BBC is now presenting an alternative view, allowing us, as free citizens, to make up our own minds.

Personally, it is impossible to believe that by Western standards many of Pegatron's employees are treated entirely humanely and certainly not in a way that would prevent an American or an Englishman from complaining.

As to relying on a tenuous relativity to suggest that "by their standards" Asian workers lead a wonderful life, I think such a suggestion is just abhorrent, Western haughtiness that lacks any empathy and is certainly not ethical in the broadest sense of that word. "Treat others how you would wish to be treated" is the basic measure, by which Apple seem to have fallen short, however much a fan I am of their products and culture.

In any case, anything that encourages Apple to redouble its efforts to do right by its workers will hardly be an outrageous thing.

Those suggesting a British broadcaster should not "lecture" an "American" company should understand that the UK is Apple's second biggest market and that Europe is home to much of Apple's cash. Patriotism often leads people astray.

 

[bawbac]

If you don't like it leave. Go to whatever labor board they have and complain. They don't work for Apple they work for Foxconn and all blame should be on them, unless Foxconn or the documentary can produce evidence that Apple demands that the company force the workers to do all that the documentary shows. As long as Apple does what is required by law to do then they should not be held responsible for the actions of a company Apple uses to build products.

So Apple can turn a blind eye to abuse as long as they are doing their part "right."

I guess if no one is bothering me and I see 5 people beating you to death, I should mind my own business and enjoy the show!

 

[Rogifan]

So I take it the BBC is going to do another report on Samsung, LG, Lenovo, Dell, etc. The BBC is all about being fair and balanced, right?

 

[Mascots]

Apple can choice end relationship with these factories or companies. Apple also need to make sure their supplier met their code of conducts. It is Apple who turn blind eyes to labor abuses in order to make more profit. Though it is not 100% Apple's fault, Apple also need hold accountable for labor abuse as well.

1. Apple can't just "end" a relationship with a supplier that helps produce the majority of their products, especially when that majority is in the tens-of-millions.

2. Apple is one the few companies that not only audits suppliers, but also make these audits public information. 9/10 times when the media cries that Apple isn't treating its employees right (though they aren't technically Apple's employees), it is after they release their own audit.

3. Apple has not only dropped suppliers in the past for not meeting code of conduct, they've also invested millions into suppliers to create better work situations in comparison to other manufacturers, so much that suicide rates within the workplace are lower than the country's it resides in.

4. They announce that a problem exists, and that it is systematic - while they heavily invest in rights & conditions, no many other companies do. While not an excuse to neglect the issues, its hard to change the game when others don't want to play by new, even if fairly obvious, rules.

 

[davidramsay]

Owning a tv does not mean you have to buy a tv licence.

Yes it does if it is capable of receiving live broadcasts from any source including satellite and freeview. You have to have the tuner removed if you don't want to pay.

 

[viacavour]

Apple can choice end relationship with these factories or companies. Apple also need to make sure their supplier met their code of conducts. It is Apple who turn blind eyes to labor abuses in order to make more profit. Though it is not 100% Apple's fault, Apple also need hold accountable for labor abuse as well.

They can't !Had Apple chose not to work with them, they will get even cheaper contracts from unmonitored customers like Samsung, HTC and others.

Some workers might die from cancer like Samsung's own factory workers. More child labor and toxic material will be used.

Going Apple for these suppliers is their best option today, even though the whole situation in Asia manufacturing sector may suck.

The problem lies with the Chinese government and the factory owners.


As for Indonesian selling tin using child labor. The Indonesian government has to step up. The manufacturers only deal with the middlemen.

In fact, the Indonesian government also need to deal with massive haze problem every year. Their farmers burn the rain forest in June to farm. The practice is so prevalent that the haze caused severe breathing issue in Singapore and Malaysia.

Despite loud protests and official conversation, Indonesia government still can't control their practices.

Apple can help to spread awareness and enforce compliance but it won't be able to control the suppliers alone without government help.

 

[Nunyabinez]

I teach business ethics and employer and global responsibilities are very nuanced and complicated issues. To those who say it's not their responsibility to tell suppliers what to do, would you feel OK buying clothing made by children sold into slavery? And taking it one step further, would you not feel like the retailer selling that merchandise has some responsibility to do something, even if it meant buying from a different supplier?

On the other hand, many of these people were borderline staving to death, working just as many hours in fields. Now they have better housing, much better pay, but are still working hard.

So, you can say that they chose it so it's their right to work in those conditions. But when someone holds a gun to my head as says "your money or your life" I choose to give them my money since the alternative was worse.

But I don't want to get mired down in details. This area is really complicated and personally, I think Apple is trying hard to figure out how to do this in the most moral way. Are they perfect, no, but I don't think there is an easy answer. How do you respect a company's rights and a country's rights? Apple can force companies to comply because of their power, but how would you feel about a Chinese company forcing American companies to treat employees differently? We would tell them to go pound sand.

So no one here is going to solve this.

 

[Zxxv]

Yes it does if it is capable of receiving live broadcasts. You have to have the tuner removed if you don't want to pay.

not true. See what I wrote above. Also search the net and you will find the relevant information. Much of it is even available from the BBC themselves.

 

[bawbac]

Actually, I am.

I have a group of people that are willing to do whatever it takes to drive our mission. We save the lives of thousands of people per year. In addition, I have a 5.8 out of 6.0 employee satisfaction rating with a 100% participation.

To me, consecutive days or long hours wouldn't bother me. I'd need to see the documentary to see the "other conditions" the employees are subjected too.

In an engineering and management position, extended workdays & working weekends is normal.

No person in their right mind would welcome working weekends & extended hours all the time for PRODUCTION assembly.

 

[ashdelacroix]

Because they used to be unbiased and thorough and they aren't anymore. Oh and if we want to watch any live TV, BBC or not, we still have to pay their fee. Then theres the executives getting multi million pound pay offs, coverups, peodophiles working unchallenged for decades.... shall I go on?

They are not all bad of course, they are just no better than other other broadcasting company anymore on the whole.

Which broadcaster, pray tell, is more objective or generally "better" than the BBC? In many parts of the world, the BBC World Service is the only source of unbiased news. BBC News is the most watched TV in a number of places who otherwise do not enjoy total freedom. The idea that the BBC is no better than Sky News, Fox News, CNN or many others is just plain misguided considering these other channels are, for a start, commercial, and are not held to strict standards set by a number of editorial boards.

In any case, you can't have watched the programme yet, so hold judgement. That would be the unbiased thing to do, right?

 

[Rogifan]

It is Apple who turn blind eyes to labor abuses in order to make more profit.

Source?

 

[ashdelacroix]

In an engineering and management position, extended workdays & working weekends is normal.

No person in their right mind would welcome working weekends & extended hours all the time for PRODUCTION assembly.

This.

All these people suggesting that testing games for a living is the same as working on a production line. Some people really need to take a step back and think about what they are saying.

Working long hours for something you love, and over which you have a great deal of control and freedom, is different from those trying to scratch a living, in a country with very few options, practically forced, insofar as those opportunities are limited, to work very long hours with repetitive tasks and to very high corporate standards, surrounding by layers of bureaucracy and hierarchy.

 

[fallenjt]

BBC idiots should know that it's common practice in Asia especially South East Asia that workers can take a nap during lunch break. It's not a working hour. They either choose to go home for a nap or just take it there. BTW, factory/company don't open for business during lunch break, not like in EU or US. Screw you BBC.

 

[viacavour]

I teach business ethics and employer and global responsibilities are very nuanced and complicated issues. To those who say it's not their responsibility to tell suppliers what to do, would you feel OK buying clothing made by children sold into slavery? And taking it one step further, would you not feel like the retailer selling that merchandise has some responsibility to do something, even if it meant buying from a different supplier?

On the other hand, many of these people were borderline staving to death, working just as many hours in fields. Now they have better housing, much better pay, but are still working hard.

So, you can say that they chose it so it's their right to work in those conditions. But when someone holds a gun to my head as says "your money or your life" I choose to give them my money since the alternative was worse.

But I don't want to get mired down in details. This area is really complicated and personally, I think Apple is trying hard to figure out how to do this in the most moral way. Are they perfect, no, but I don't think there is an easy answer. How do you respect a company's rights and a country's rights? Apple can force companies to comply because of their power, but how would you feel about a Chinese company forcing American companies to treat employees differently? We would tell them to go pound sand.

So no one here is going to solve this.

You missed the point.

Apple _is_ monitoring and making improvements, more so than the rest of the pack.

What BBC should do is to go after the others first, or address all brand owners together. Focusing on Apple is sending the wrong message when they are the only guys making headway.

Bring laggers up to speed, then inch forward.

 

[Rogifan]

Umm BBC does not profit from things like this. It is funded by a license fee.

So the Beeb is doing this purely for altruistic reasons? Because the Beeb really cares about the well being of Chinese factory workers? Hahahahahaha

 

[toph2toast]

I didn't read every single comment on here, but the overall impressions on this story seem to be that this shouldn't be Apple's problem because these aren't Apple employees, and that the BBC is going after Apple only because they are the biggest company in the world.

I would challenge you to look at this a different way, in that they are helping Apple by showing where their efforts aren't working, or where they can still improve. And they are attaching Apple's name to it because as the biggest company in the world, they have the power to change it. If a tiny customer to one of these Chinese companies said "hey, I don't like how you are treating your customers, I'm out" their response would probably be "don't let the door hit you on the way out, we can find a replacement". However, if Apple said "if you don't clean up your act, we're out" I would think that would be enough incentive to get things in order.

So I see the BBC thing as a challenge for Apple to use their leverage to make a difference, because if the biggest company in the world can't do it, who can?

 

[Edsel]

I'm a physician and I routinely work 80+ hour weeks (and 100+ hour weeks during residency). These factory workers have it good! Maybe the BBC should produce a documentary on overworked physicians (something that actually matters).

As a physician then, you should know that standing in one place for sixteen hours per day doing the same mindless repetitive task is much different than interacting with patients and staff.

 

[tennisproha]

I'm a physician and I routinely work 80+ hour weeks (and 100+ hour weeks during residency). These factory workers have it good! Maybe the BBC should produce a documentary on overworked physicians (something that actually matters).

so your take is overworked factory workers don't matter?

also, your working conditions are quite different than a factory so that's a poor comparison.