BBC Documentary Claims Apple Fails to Protect Chinese Factory Workers

[tundrabuggy]

chinese people are not your citizens and british companies have been attacked for their use of indians sweat shops

grow up.

Chines labor issues are the problem of the Chinese Government NOT Apples!

Keep your nose out of other Government's business!

 

[thalazy]

Apple is not the police.

So Apple can turn a blind eye to abuse as long as they are doing their part "right."

I guess if no one is bothering me and I see 5 people beating you to death, I should mind my own business and enjoy the show!

Who said anything about turning a blind eye. The responsibility lies within the company these employee's work for which is Foxconn. Apple doesn't own or run Foxconn. They can choose not to work with Foxconn but will just end up with a smaller factory that does the same dang thing to it's employee's. It's up to China to do something about it. Not sure what Apple can do to stop this. They don't own the company nor do they make labor laws or enforce them.
They can't build a factory in America as the prices for Apple products would skyrocket through the roof. No one will buy an iPad mini 16gb for $600.

 

[ashdelacroix]

So I take it the BBC is going to do another report on Samsung, LG, Lenovo, Dell, etc. The BBC is all about being fair and balanced, right?

So every news story on earth has to consider "everything" then? This is not about the BBC trying to take down Apple: it is about uncovering another side to the very prominent story that Apple tells about itself as a company that wears its ethical credentials like a badge of honour.

Clearly, as the sometime biggest company on earth, the BBC has every right to question Apple as a very prominent brand. As to investigating Samsung, I do not know what the hell its ethical policy is, so I've never considered them as a particularly ethical company. I mean, isn't that the point about this documentary, that Apple makes such noise about its ethical foundations?

Are you suggesting that there could never be a documentary made about a dictator without underlining his good qualities as well as an evaluation of every other dictator who ever lived? Taken on its own terms, this is simply a documentary about a prominent company, perhaps the most prominent company in the Western world, who makes very clear claims that the BBC are rightly putting under the spotlight.

 

[Eric5h5]

Apple can apply pressure, but at the end of the day, it's the fault of the factories, which are not owned by Apple. Huge stretch to call it "broken promises". If there's a bully who's beating up people, and you say "I'm going to try to get him to stop", and you do, but he hasn't stopped yet, did you break any promises? Obviously not.

--Eric

 

[Rogifan]

I didn't read every single comment on here, but the overall impressions on this story seem to be that this shouldn't be Apple's problem because these aren't Apple employees, and that the BBC is going after Apple only because they are the biggest company in the world.

I would challenge you to look at this a different way, in that they are helping Apple by showing where their efforts aren't working, or where they can still improve. And they are attaching Apple's name to it because as the biggest company in the world, they have the power to change it. If a tiny customer to one of these Chinese companies said "hey, I don't like how you are treating your customers, I'm out" their response would probably be "don't let the door hit you on the way out, we can find a replacement". However, if Apple said "if you don't clean up your act, we're out" I would think that would be enough incentive to get things in order.

So I see the BBC thing as a challenge for Apple to use their leverage to make a difference, because if the biggest company in the world can't do it, who can?

So the only way they could make Apple aware of these things (and that's assuming they uncovered legitimate violations that Apple wasn't aware) is to run a special on TV? And what about all the other consumer electronics companies that use Chinese labor to assemble their products. Do they not count?

 

[baryon]

Cheap labour always means the workers are paying the price. Unfortunately our world wants more, faster, and for less, and the only way it can achieve that is if there are people out there who provide more, faster and for less.

 

[viacavour]

I didn't read every single comment on here, but the overall impressions on this story seem to be that this shouldn't be Apple's problem because these aren't Apple employees, and that the BBC is going after Apple only because they are the biggest company in the world.

I would challenge you to look at this a different way, in that they are helping Apple by showing where their efforts aren't working, or where they can still improve. And they are attaching Apple's name to it because as the biggest company in the world, they have the power to change it. If a tiny customer to one of these Chinese companies said "hey, I don't like how you are treating your customers, I'm out" their response would probably be "don't let the door hit you on the way out, we can find a replacement". However, if Apple said "if you don't clean up your act, we're out" I would think that would be enough incentive to get things in order.

So I see the BBC thing as a challenge for Apple to use their leverage to make a difference, because if the biggest company in the world can't do it, who can?

They are most certainly not helping Apple. These issues are known to everyone who's worked in Asia before. That's why it's a long process to change the work culture.


And again you get the actors wrong. It should be BBC helping the Chinese government and the factory owners improve. Apple customers and Apple have collectively provided a demand platform for them to leverage.

They should also encourage other brand owners to follow suit.

 

[bawbac]

Who said anything about turning a blind eye. The responsibility lies within the company these employee's work for which is Foxconn. Apple doesn't own or run Foxconn. They can choose not to work with Foxconn but will just end up with a smaller factory that does the same dang thing to it's employee's. It's up to China to do something about it. Not sure what Apple can do to stop this. They don't own the company nor do they make labor laws or enforce them.
They can't build a factory in America as the prices for Apple products would skyrocket through the roof. No one will buy an iPad mini 16gb for $600.

So you're saying that it's OK for Apple to be aware of employees getting abused but it's not their problem as long as the units are built...

Got it!

 

[ashdelacroix]

Apple can apply pressure, but at the end of the day, it's the fault of the factories, which are not owned by Apple. Huge stretch to call it "broken promises". If there's a bully who's beating up people, and you say "I'm going to try to get him to stop", and you do, but he hasn't stopped yet, did you break any promises? Obviously not.

--Eric

This is quite an ill-conceived answer. It is widely known that Apple exerts exacting control over its suppliers and makes a great deal of fanfare about its ethical policy. Apple could do a great deal to further improve worker conditions, and as it has proved in the past it can spend a lot of money and take a lot of the kudos for making such changes.

 

[Nunyabinez]

You missed the point.

Apple _is_ monitoring and making improvements, more so than the rest of the pack.

What BBC should do is to go after the others first, or address all brand owners together. Focusing on Apple is sending the wrong message when they are the only guys making headway.

Bring laggers up to speed, then inch forward.

Oh, I didn't miss that point. Apple gets this all the time. Thousands of companies don't give any kind of holiday gift to employees while Apple gives a branded back pack and the cries of "stingy Apple" flood the Internet.

And while the BBC may be well intentioned in trying to help the plight of worker's around the world, they are taking advantage of the fact that anything critical of Apple gets views. They know full well that MS, Sony, and dozens of other firms use these same companies and facilities, but more people will click on the story with Apple in it, even if Apple is light years ahead of others.

I guess that's the price you pay for going on record saying your going to be responsible. People monitor you. If you don't say anything you can go be irresponsible and no one notices.

 

[Rogifan]

So every news story on earth has to consider "everything" then? This is not about the BBC trying to take down Apple: it is about uncovering another side to the very prominent story that Apple tells about itself as a company that wears its ethical credentials like a badge of honour.

Clearly, as the sometime biggest company on earth, the BBC has every right to question Apple as a very prominent brand. As to investigating Samsung, I do not know what the hell its ethical policy is, so I've never considered them as a particularly ethical company. I mean, isn't that the point about this documentary, that Apple makes such noise about its ethical foundations?

Are you suggesting that there could never be a documentary made about a dictator without underlining his good qualities as well as an evaluation of every other dictator who ever lived? Taken on its own terms, this is simply a documentary about a prominent company, perhaps the most prominent company in the Western world, who makes very clear claims that the BBC are rightly putting under the spotlight.

No, this is because anything involving Apple gets eyeballs and clicks, period. I would think it would just as important, if not more important to go after companies that don't do as much as Apple does, rather than focus on Apple just because it will be better for ratings.

 

[ashdelacroix]

Oh, I didn't miss that point. Apple gets this all the time. Thousands of companies don't give any kind of holiday gift to employees while Apple gives a branded back pack and the cries of "stingy Apple" flood the Internet.

And while the BBC may be well intentioned in trying to help the plight of worker's around the world, they are taking advantage of the fact that anything critical of Apple gets views. They know full well that MS, Sony, and dozens of other firms use these same companies and facilities, but more people will click on the story with Apple in it, even if Apple is light years ahead of others.

I guess that's the price you pay for going on record saying your going to be responsible. People monitor you. If you don't say anything you can go be irresponsible and no one notices.

You are verging on idiotic for not thinking this through. Unlike the other companies you mention, Apple is very vocal about its ethical credentials and so attracts greater scrutiny. This is not the BBC trying to take down Apple. The BBC has featured a huge amount of positive press about Apple in the past.

 

[Nunyabinez]

Who said anything about turning a blind eye. The responsibility lies within the company these employee's work for which is Foxconn. Apple doesn't own or run Foxconn. They can choose not to work with Foxconn but will just end up with a smaller factory that does the same dang thing to it's employee's. It's up to China to do something about it. Not sure what Apple can do to stop this. They don't own the company nor do they make labor laws or enforce them.
They can't build a factory in America as the prices for Apple products would skyrocket through the roof. No one will buy an iPad mini 16gb for $600.

Actually, Apple can and does, and should do something about this. When you are an important customer you have the ability and some would say the responsibility to influence your supplier when you feel like something immoral is happening. Apple has standards, monitors companies, and has even fired suppliers for violating these standards. And they are completely right to do so.

 

[bawbac]

Apple can apply pressure, but at the end of the day, it's the fault of the factories, which are not owned by Apple. Huge stretch to call it "broken promises". If there's a bully who's beating up people, and you say "I'm going to try to get him to stop", and you do, but he hasn't stopped yet, did you break any promises? Obviously not.

--Eric

If Apple really cared, they know they can do things that causes heartache for those factories but the fact is, Apple does NOT CARE!

They don't want to do anything that can jeopardize getting units shipped on time to meet their revenue target.

Apple does not care about people. Their focus is the bottom line.
It's very disturbing that some people think Apple is some free loving save the world company when in fact they are the opposite.

Show me the profits!!!

 

[thalazy]

So you're saying that it's OK for Apple to be aware of employees getting abused but it's not their problem as long as the units are built...

Got it!

'
It's a problem that Apple and many other tech companies can do very little about. This is a China labor issue. Unless Apple and every other electronics company that uses Foxconn decides to cancel their contract and build their own facility that will strictly adhere to safety standards that they can all agree to, there isn't much that they can do. Foxconn runs itself not Apple or Microsoft or any other company and I would doubt Foxconn would do anything without a substantial increase in money paid to them and we all know companies would not comply, regardless what the reason is. Then it would be a waiting game to see if Foxconn actually did improve working conditions.

 

[toph2toast]

So the only way they could make Apple aware of these things (and that's assuming they uncovered legitimate violations that Apple wasn't aware) is to run a special on TV? And what about all the other consumer electronics companies that use Chinese labor to assemble their products. Do they not count?

It's not the only way to tell Apple, but then again, Apple isn't paying them to do this, so why should they go tell Apple this information in a private meeting behind closed doors without releasing this info to the public. Its OK for Apple to tell us what they are doing to improve things, so why can't someone else tell us what they aren't doing?

I am also not saying that other consumer electronic companies don't count, I'm just saying they don't have the leverage that Apple does given that Apple is the biggest company in the world. So again I ask, if Apple can't help to change things, who can?

 

[Rogifan]

You are verging on idiotic for not thinking this through. Unlike the other companies you mention, Apple is very vocal about its ethical credentials and so attracts greater scrutiny. This is not the BBC trying to take down Apple. The BBC has featured a huge amount of positive press about Apple in the past.

No this is the BBC looking for ratings and page views. Otherwise it wouldn't be just about Apple.

 

[PJWilkin]

Sensationalism

The BBC is picking on Apple and trying to spin it as entirely Apples fault

I've seen a few of the clips they've shown on the news, and feel that it's 'Lets Blame Apple rather than the supplier' because if they tried to say 'Pegatron employees overworked' no one would bother watching it.

The quality of journalism from the BBC has slipped of late, and this is just another example of shoddy work

I suspect the BBC will make Apples **** list and their journalists won't be invited to Apple events for a few years

 

[576316]

Yet they fail to report that these hard done by people are paid a fair wage by there countries going rate and there there by CHOICE. It's not forced labour!

There, they're, their.

Aside from that, your point is valid.

 

[WhoDaKat]

What a BS double standard. "Apple's Broken Promises"? lol As if they are the only manufacturer in the country. And when did we become such whiny babies? When I graduated from high school, I worked in a move theater. Most of us pulled double shifts all the time, that was at least 16 hours a day! And I was 18. I can't tell you how many times me or my friends worked 18 days without a day off. Today I often have to attend meetings or events after hours and I don't get paid for them... Does the BBC need to come save me from my horrible working conditions? What a joke. Next it will be a scathing documentary about how Foxconn didn't deliver their employees the luxury slippers they promised. Immigrants in this country face worse conditions then these. People falling asleep while they work, lol, you forgot the footage of them drinking all night the day before. I'll bet there are plenty of unemployed people in China that would jump at a chance to work 55 hours a week.

 

[ashdelacroix]

No, this is because anything involving Apple gets eyeballs and clicks, period. I would think it would just as important, if not more important to go after companies that don't do as much as Apple does, rather than focus on Apple just because it will be better for ratings.

The BBC is publicly funded and does not get more money depending on how many viewers it gets. The fact that you end your sentence with the phrase "period", as though you have some magic insight into the BBC's commissioning procedures, only goes to show the absurdity and narrowness of your view.

Unlike "other companies", Apple makes tremendous noise about its ethical commitments and these rightly need investigating. The BBC is not a factory inspector but a broadcaster exploring issues that raise debate.

To say simply that this was commissioned purely for ratings is cynical, blinkered and attempts to close the debate rather than confronting it head on.

 

[tundrabuggy]

I have huge respect for both the BBC and Apple, so I find my loyalties rather divided. However, we must accept that Apple is by some measure the largest company in the world and that it eloquently and prominently wears its ethical credentials on its sleeve. Few companies, certainly those in manufacturing, make so much out of its ethical commitments and use those in part to increase revenues by boosting the "feel good factor" around its ecosystem.

It is only right that this is held up to scrutiny and another side of the story is presented for us to judge the evidence. Apple has made its achievements clear and the BBC is now presenting an alternative view, allowing us, as free citizens, to make up our own minds.

Personally, it is impossible to believe that by Western standards many of Pegatron's employees are treated entirely humanely and certainly not in a way that would prevent an American or an Englishman from complaining.

As to relying on a tenuous relativity to suggest that "by their standards" Asian workers lead a wonderful life, I think such a suggestion is just abhorrent, Western haughtiness that lacks any empathy and is certainly not ethical in the broadest sense of that word. "Treat others how you would wish to be treated" is the basic measure, by which Apple seem to have fallen short, however much a fan I am of their products and culture.

In any case, anything that encourages Apple to redouble its efforts to do right by its workers will hardly be an outrageous thing.

Those suggesting a British broadcaster should not "lecture" an "American" company should understand that the UK is Apple's second biggest market and that Europe is home to much of Apple's cash. Patriotism often leads people astray.

You're not looking at the larger issue. This is a problem of the Chinese Government, FoxConn and the current labor laws. The BBC has its nose in the wrong place. Next story, move on, let China solve its own problems unless they ask for an American company for assistance. Send a letter to the Chinese Government with your opinion and suggestions.

 

[kolax]

If you don't like it leave. Go to whatever labor board they have and complain. They don't work for Apple they work for Foxconn and all blame should be on them, unless Foxconn or the documentary can produce evidence that Apple demands that the company force the workers to do all that the documentary shows. As long as Apple does what is required by law to do then they should not be held responsible for the actions of a company Apple uses to build products.

The problem is Apple is exploiting horrific human labour conditions in China to manufacture their products. Why don't Apple manufacture in the US? Because it's far too expensive and they'd never make enough to meet demand. So China it is.

Apple isn't the only one doing it, it's an industry problem. But, Apple is the most glamorous, profitable and the one who supposedly 'cares' so they are damn right the ones we should be pointing the finger at. They have the power and finances to make a huge impact, but they don't. They just sit on their billions and make stupid spaceship campuses.

Sometimes living the west it's hard to see through that fog at what is really going on in the world. Especially when it is your 'beloved' Apple.

 

[Nunyabinez]

You are verging on idiotic for not thinking this through. Unlike the other companies you mention, Apple is very vocal about its ethical credentials and so attracts greater scrutiny. This is not the BBC trying to take down Apple. The BBC has featured a huge amount of positive press about Apple in the past.

So, just because Apple has said they are working with their suppliers to help them act responsibly and some are still not doing so, Apple should be criticized while Microsoft says we don't care and the BBC ignores them. That sounds idiotic to me.

I don't think the BBC is trying to take Apple down, like everyone else they want eyeballs and producers and reporters want their work to make a name. They are being sensationalists. It's TV click bait.

 

[viacavour]

Oh, I didn't miss that point. Apple gets this all the time. Thousands of companies don't give any kind of holiday gift to employees while Apple gives a branded back pack and the cries of "stingy Apple" flood the Internet.

And while the BBC may be well intentioned in trying to help the plight of worker's around the world, they are taking advantage of the fact that anything critical of Apple gets views. They know full well that MS, Sony, and dozens of other firms use these same companies and facilities, but more people will click on the story with Apple in it, even if Apple is light years ahead of others.

I guess that's the price you pay for going on record saying your going to be responsible. People monitor you. If you don't say anything you can go be irresponsible and no one notices.

Then you agree with me. They are NOT helping Apple.
They are after eyeballs ?