Belkin Officially Begins Shipping Thunderbolt Express Dock

[repoman27]

Thunderbolts already 2 years old and number of devices that are out there that aren't end-of-chain hard drives could probably be counted on one hand. The prices havent dropped, the license fee set by Apple & Intel is still extremely high.

They have pretty much already killed it. It's Firewire all over again - better, but so poorly supported and expensive that nobody bothers.

You could count them all, if you have at least 77 fingers on one hand.

Apple does not charge a licensing fee to third parties developing Thunderbolt devices. Intel does indeed license Thunderbolt technology, however, I have yet to see any direct evidence that an onerous licensing fee is involved.

Many people who had needs that were not met by USB used FireWire despite it costing more. You'll note that this dock includes a FireWire port. When given a cheaper alternative, most people choose the less expensive one. When there are no acceptable alternatives, they pony up the cash. Thunderbolt will fill the niches that USB cannot, just as FireWire and ExpressCard did before.

 

[Rossatron]

$300 and they don't give you a TB to connect the dock to your mac - just a power adaptor? a bit mean to my opinion

 

[iSayuSay]

You realize that displays comparable to Apple's are over $600 easily, if not even more expensive than Apple's. So, that plus $300 for a TB dock is basically the same as just buying an ACD, pricewise.

Thunderbolt Display is a gimped version of the good old ACD. For the same $999 now you can only plug computer with Thunderbolt source.

Get something similar like Dell Ultrasharp 27" for $700, then get this Thunderbolt hub for $300 and yes you also ended $1000. BUT, that's a big but .. you get a fully functional display which have multiple inputs, real switches/buttons for settings and flexibility. You can use it for Mac and PC/any video sources at the same time.

Much more versatile and clean than Apple Thunderbolt Display, no?

 

[3282868]

Designed to be an easy and powerful way to increase productivity and take advantage of Thunderbolt technology, Belkin’s Thunderbolt Express Dock allows creative professionals* the ability to edit films in full HD 1080p, and transfer volumes of data in seconds at bidirectional 10Gbps channels.

*Not compatible with current gen (2010) Mac Pro's.

the irony

 

[GizmoDVD]

Awesome if this was early 2012.

In 2013, this is too expensive. Pass.

 

[Bear]

Do the USB 3.0 ports work with Macs that don't come with USB 3.0?

Yes, you just need to be running the recommend version of OS X

$300 and they don't give you a TB to connect the dock to your mac - just a power adaptor? a bit mean to my opinion

You mean a TB Cable? It's a way they can charge less for the product. And then you can buy a cable of the length you need. some will only need 1 half meter cable, some may need a 1 or 2 meter cable.

 

[haravikk]

Definitely agreed on it being too expensive; the panel with the ports has a lot of under-utilised space that just seems wasted, I can't believe they couldn't squeeze in at least double the number of USB ports.

The layout of the ports is also surprisingly messy for such a high-priced product; they're not aligned in any way and the symbols indicating what each port is are positioned very inconsistently.

While I'm sure the electronics do the job you expect of them (which is the main thing) it just doesn't seem to justify such a high price tag in overall quality or what it offers. While I understand that even 10gbps can be eaten up quickly, it's unlikely that anyone will be fully utilising every port on such a hub, so it makes sense to provide extra ports so you can attach your fleet of USB devices and maybe one or two other things and still get the most out of it.

As it stands I'm not sure there's much to recommend it over getting two or three more tightly focused hubs to meet your needs more fully via other ports.

 

[calderone]

*snip*
As it stands I'm not sure there's much to recommend it over getting two or three more tightly focused hubs to meet your needs more fully via other ports.

Because everyone wants two or three hubs...

My take is that those complaining would barely even utilize this dock completely, they just want more. Everyone wants more these days, doesn't matter if they need it. Just more more more.

 

[roar08]

Well

Belkin shipping? That explains the pig I saw fly by this morning...

 

[3282868]

Because everyone wants two or three hubs...

My take is that those complaining would barely even utilize this dock completely, they just want more. Everyone wants more these days, doesn't matter if they need it. Just more more more.

It's the American way
Supersize me!

and this is the consequence

 

[theluggage]

Look at the Sonnet, although that only has 4 USB ports, at least it has the optical drive and a couple of eSata ports.

...plus space for an internal, user-fitted SATA HD, and the eSATA ports will let you add additional storage with fast & relatively cheap eSATA enclosures, so those USB3 ports are going to go further.

I think the Sonnet gives by far the best bangs per buck - assuming it actually makes it to market with the current spec. Only daft thing is the lack of BD-RW option and/or a 'fit your own optical drive' option.

*Not compatible with current gen (2010) Mac Pro's.

Not needed by current Mac Pros, which have lots of ports & internal expansion.

 

[3282868]

Not needed by current Mac Pros, which have lots of ports & internal expansion.

Oh, I didn't realize the Mac Pro had Thunderbolt (or USB 3.0, 'though I have that with a CalDigit PCIe). However Thunderbolt can't be added with a PCIe card. Every Apple Mac product, from MacBook Pro's to the Mac Mini has Thunderbolt, but not the - dated - $2499+ Mac Pro. That is ironic.

 

[Bear]

...
As it stands I'm not sure there's much to recommend it over getting two or three more tightly focused hubs to meet your needs more fully via other ports.

Less desktop clutter fewer power outlets needed.

...
My take is that those complaining would barely even utilize this dock completely, they just want more. Everyone wants more these days, doesn't matter if they need it. Just more more more.

I think the main problem is the number of USB ports. As I said earlier, the Sonnet looks the most useful to me in order to reduce desktop clutter. 4 USB ports plus an optical drive as well as the option of a hard drive in it.

 

[Simplicated]

Because everyone wants two or three hubs...

My take is that those complaining would barely even utilize this dock completely, they just want more. Everyone wants more these days, doesn't matter if they need it. Just more more more.

It reminds me of a company that starts with S...

 

[kingtj]

re: displays

Except this statement is false, because those imported Asian IPS monitors at the $300 price point have garbage electronics in them. Sure ,you get the same high-quality IPS panel itself inside one, but mark my words .... You'll have problems with it refusing to power on in probably not much more than about 1 year of use, thanks to the cheap power supply board in it, and you'll find the on-screen controls lacking in most cases, too. They cut corners everywhere else just so they could sell you something with the nice panel in it.

$600 for the display if you buy it from someone like Dell.

However the same display can be imported (guaranteed 100% pixel perfect- something Dell nor Apple will do) for around $300.

 

[repoman27]

$600 for the display if you buy it from someone like Dell.

However the same display can be imported (guaranteed 100% pixel perfect- something Dell nor Apple will do) for around $300.

Actually, the $350 Korean displays are based on the same LG panels as Apple and Dell's displays, but they use the reject panels that Apple and Dell refused. They also lack a fair amount of hardware that the more expensive displays include. This makes them great for gaming and over-clocking, but not quite as good for professional color work.

Saying it has a 2-port thunderbolt controller is a bit misleading. It has 1 usable thunderbolt port. The other will be plugged into your Mac.

I'd maybe pick one up if they had thrown a couple of eSata ports on it, but its not worth it for the price. The henge rMBP dock is out soon with any luck, and whilst it comes with (optional) thunderbolt pass through, it also offers 3 MiniDisplayPort video out ports, 6 USB 3.0 ports, 1x Firewire 800, 1x Gig Ethernet, SD card and left/right audio outputs. For $249 ($349 with passthrough) its a way better option IMO.

It isn't misleading at all. To be even more specific, it contains a 4-channel, Intel DSL3510L, or possibly even one of the newer DSL4510 controllers. I think most reasonable people understand that single port devices are chain enders, and dual-port devices allow further daisy chaining or display output. Both ports are 100% usable.

The Henge dock you're looking at most likely contains:

2x VIA Labs VL812 4-port USB 3.0 hub controllers
DisplayLink DL-3900 dual head USB 3.0 display adapter with 6-channel audio and GbE MAC
Intel DSL2210 single channel (PCIe only) Thunderbolt controller or possibly a DSL3310 dual-channel (single port) controller for the MBA models
FireWire 800 host controller
USB SD card reader

Which actually works out to being a way more compromised system for the money. It only works with the specific model of MBA* or MBPR that it is designed for. Two of the DP ports output a compressed signal fed from a single USB 3.0 port along with the Ethernet and 3 of the USB 3.0 ports. Thunderbolt passthrough is not possible without paying an extra $100 for a 2-port Thunderbolt controller. It blocks all of the ports on your Mac, and the provided USB card reader is most likely not as fast/capable as the UHS-I SDXC reader that comes built-in. The power situation is not clearly illustrated, but I imagine relies on using the adapter that came with your MacBook or buying an additional Apple power adapter.

edit: eSATA is a far less appropriate consumer device interface and mostly pointless now that we have SuperSpeed USB.

*I am also relatively certain that these docks will only work with 2012 MBAs, and are not capable of adding USB 3.0 to a system that does not ship with native chipset support. The feature set and system requirements for the MBA version were not explicitly stated however.

 

[TimeSquareDesi]

$300 for the dock
$40 for the cable to conncet it because it doesn't come with one.

total: $340 (before shipping/tax)

I recall the dock on my old HP had more functionality (6 USB ports, IIRC) and cost me maybe $119. ~$135-$140 after shipping + tax.

So yeah, this is overpriced like everyone is saying. Grossly overpriced.

It's funny because I went to the Apple store and told them I wanted a dock for ethernet and their response was like "everyone uses wifi now, why would you want to use a cable?!?!?!" well, i like transferring files in 30 minutes and not a day like it takes over wifi!

but i digress.

 

[calderone]

$300 for the dock
$40 for the cable to conncet it because it doesn't come with one.

total: $340 (before shipping/tax)

I recall the dock on my old HP had more functionality (6 USB ports, IIRC) and cost me maybe $119. ~$135-$140 after shipping + tax.

So yeah, this is overpriced like everyone is saying. Grossly overpriced.

It's funny because I went to the Apple store and told them I wanted a dock for ethernet and their response was like "everyone uses wifi now, why would you want to use a cable?!?!?!" well, i like transferring files in 30 minutes and not a day like it takes over wifi!

but i digress.

Based on what? Do you know how much it cost to make? And this coming from someone who finds it necessary to list the price of their computer in their signature.

The correct statement is likely: "For me, the value to price ratio is too high."

 

[Otterblue]

What I want is a reasonably priced thunderbolt to USB 3 adapter not a $300 dock.

 

[Greggae512]

Mini displayport Display at end of chain?

So with this dock can I run my Minidisplay port LCD at the end of the chain off that second TB port?

 

[dyn]

Based on what? Do you know how much it cost to make? And this coming from someone who finds it necessary to list the price of their computer in their signature.

If you had read his post you'd know what he is basing it on and he is right in that regard. It doesn't matter how much it really costs because the product has to have a reasonable price tag. If it doesn't then people won't buy it and the maker won't sell it. Products that don't sell (very well) are the most expensive products. Not to us consumers but to the manufacturer. HP had a similar situation with the tablet from Palm. They ended up dropping the price to 99 dollars and that caused people to rush to the stores. It was damage control. Belkin and others have to be very cautious about this because they might make the same mistake as HP did.

The correct statement is likely: "For me, the value to price ratio is too high."

That applies to everything but that's not what this is about. It's about pricing your product correctly in order to get it to sell. Docks are expensive, Thunderbolt docks are about twice as expensive as the normal docks. That needs explaining. It would have been a different story if it were only $50 higher. I personally think they shouldn't be going past the $199~220 because this price range is explainable.

 

[fortysomegeek]

It isn't misleading at all. To be even more specific, it contains a 4-channel, Intel DSL3510L, or possibly even one of the newer DSL4510 controllers. I think most reasonable people understand that single port devices are chain enders, and dual-port devices allow further daisy chaining or display output. Both ports are 100% usable.

The Henge dock you're looking at most likely contains:

2x VIA Labs VL812 4-port USB 3.0 hub controllers
DisplayLink DL-3900 dual head USB 3.0 display adapter with 6-channel audio and GbE MAC
Intel DSL2210 single channel (PCIe only) Thunderbolt controller or possibly a DSL3310 dual-channel (single port) controller for the MBA models
FireWire 800 host controller
USB SD card reader

Which actually works out to being a way more compromised system for the money.

edit: eSATA is a far less appropriate consumer device interface and mostly pointless now that we have SuperSpeed USB.

I jury-rigged a 4 port USB hub with the same via USB 3.0 controller chipset along with an ASIX gigabit ethernet and a DisplayLink DL-3900 HDMI adapter. I had all the parts lying around and was contemplating buying one of those USB 3.0 laptop docking stations (using DisplayLink) that sells for $150-200 (namely Targus, Kensington, Lenovo). I also threw in a USB 3.0 eSATA newertech to the mix. At least with my set-up, I would know before hand if it would work or not.

In theory, it works. My set-up is a rats-ness of wires and clutter. The DisplayLink outputting 1080p (1920x1080) was garbage. It lagged so bad, it wasn't even funny. USB gigabit and eSATA was just fine. In fact, eSATA via USB 3.0 worked better than native eSATA on my PC laptop.

I think I am gonna go with the Caldigit Thunderbolt dock. It has everything I need. It will be about the same price as a USB 3.0 dock and perform better. PCIe vs USB 3.0
It doesn't use DisplayLink for video which is what I want. Gigabit will probably be more reliable (disconnects). And if I want eSATA, I'll use my $20 USB3.0-eSATA dongle I already have. It will be much, much cleaner.

Also, a word about those via USB hubs. I have four different ones. They all kill the UASP (USB attach scsi) kext when you connect a drive to them. If your machine has native USB 3.0, it is better to connect directly to the machine itself.

 

[rocknblogger]

Because everyone wants two or three hubs...

My take is that those complaining would barely even utilize this dock completely, they just want more. Everyone wants more these days, doesn't matter if they need it. Just more more more.

I have to agree with this sentiment. I for one would use all the ports with the possible exception of audio in/out. The way I see it this dock gives you (in total) 3 Thunderbolt ports (there's still 1 available on the rMBP) and 5 USB 3.0 (2 still available on the rMBP) plus all the other ports.

So lets look at the price if you break it down to adapters vs this dock:

Ethernet + FireWire + MiniDisplay = $87. This is just for the adapters.
eSATA - I can only find hubs at around $180 LaCie
USB 3.0 hub 7 port $49

EDIT: I priced the LaCie hub because I specifically was looking at TB to eSATA
For a total of $316.

Granted you get a total of 8 USB 3.0 ports, 2 eSATA and 2 Thunderbolt (again for a total of 3).

When you break it down this way it seems that his dock is not as overpriced as a lot of people here make it out to be.

 

[calderone]

If you had read his post you'd know what he is basing it on and he is right in that regard. It doesn't matter how much it really costs because the product has to have a reasonable price tag. If it doesn't then people won't buy it and the maker won't sell it. Products that don't sell (very well) are the most expensive products. Not to us consumers but to the manufacturer. HP had a similar situation with the tablet from Palm. They ended up dropping the price to 99 dollars and that caused people to rush to the stores. It was damage control. Belkin and others have to be very cautious about this because they might make the same mistake as HP did.


That applies to everything but that's not what this is about. It's about pricing your product correctly in order to get it to sell. Docks are expensive, Thunderbolt docks are about twice as expensive as the normal docks. That needs explaining. It would have been a different story if it were only $50 higher. I personally think they shouldn't be going past the $199~220 because this price range is explainable.

"Reasonable is subjective." Some people will gladly pay for this product because it adds the appropriate amount of value for the price. It seems to me, the complainers want it but don't want to pony up the cash.

Pricing is very much dependent on how much it costs to make this thing. We don't really have that answer, but pricing it at a loss would be foolish. Some things just can't be done cheaply and this may be one of them (for now). Costs may come down over time, bringing the price down (duh).

The point I was making, if you had read my post, is that the price the end consumer wants to pay is not the only consideration when making a product. It seems most peoples understanding of economics is based purely on what they want to pay for a product, which is pretty foolish.

 

[Gasu E.]

The Henge Horizontal Dock is a way better deal for the rMBP.

The Belkin one would have been good if it had 2 Thunderbolt out ports (note that in the pic, one of those two ports has to plug into your mac), HDMI (or preferably Mini Display Port IN ADDITION to 2 thunderbolts) and at least 6 USB 3.0 ports. Seriously, who the hell only has a couple of USB 3.0 things to plug in these days.

Henge looks good, but what do you do when the next MBP you buy has a slightly different form factor?